Bingowings

Also I'm not sure if now's the time.

With so many interesting projects (not all of which are Lucas related) on the go this is just the sort of publicity that could bring the legal blast doors slamming down and kill them off.

Most editors of Lucas aren't against him but are ironically more for his work than he is, these edits are essentially an act of salvage more than protest.

I think it's, "Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?" guy.

He had just enough of the Force with him to sense his fate but not enough to avoid it.

What a relief to finally (after so many broken promises from GL) not see through those X-wings.

Everything looks so clean and crisp, it really looks like it was filmed yesterday and not nearly three decades ago.

I think that is a rather pretty image in it's own right (warts and all).

Some of the blerb on the back is hilariously badly written, how can an Empire be anything but Imperial (it's like saying the American Americans)? I wasn't aware that Han, Leia etc were trying to take over the Empire, I thought they were trying to get rid of it altogether.

It's not as bad as some of the early VHS releases in the UK which committed the mortal sin of calling Han, Hans.

It seems daft to me that in this instance this room still has map screens stuck on the ceiling where nobody can get to them and the only things in this useful space on the flag ship are two guys and two surgeon droids.

It should be an active command centre like the one seen in ANH, with maps screens people can get to, alternative displays for monitoring the entire battle and controls, is Ackbar's huge ship being controlled by the four or five chaps in his little blister?

The idea being a bit like when a school gym is being used for an assembly or play.

The gym equipment is folded up against the wall but when it's a gym the seating is removed and the gym equipment is folded out.

Briefing over down go the seats into the floor and down from the ceiling come the map screens and the room is filled with battle tacticians and the like.

Another way of looking at it is thinking about all those speakeasy scenes in films like Bugsy Malone where the tables turn around or flip under the floor and suddenly it's a Bible recital or a charming little tearoom.

doubleofive said:

Bingowings said:

The room is clearly a part of the ship command centre that is just being used for the briefing (Ackbar's control blister over hangs the area and we see the holo-table being used as a tactical display during the battle.

Really?  I never noticed.

 

Remember when the shield goes down tech guys are monitoring the hologram of the Death Star just before Ackbar commands that fleet moves away before it explodes.

The map screens (as they are) are redundant because there is no way that anyone could use them. The medical droids need to go.

Then you are left with what has to be there all the time and what only needs to be there during the briefing.

The room is clearly a part of the ship command centre that is just being used for the briefing (Ackbar's control blister over hangs the area and we see the holo-table being used as a tactical display during the battle).

An alternative arrangement would be to have the seating area sink when not being used and the map screens and some general controls drop down to fill the space (that way people can get to them to use them and the room becomes a command centre instead of a pointlessly empty (except for surgeon droids?) space.

I'm fine with that configuration too.

But it still needs a total redesign of the room in a battle context.

If anyone has The Art Of Return Of The Jedi the chairs were part of some of the original designs (the only reminder being Ackbar's chair in his little blister) as were the giant holograms being studied above the conference area.

Perhaps the problem you have with it Chainsaw is not the idea but my rough and ready doodles of the idea.

Sevb32 said:

Hmmm, I thought it was more of a viewscreen inside rather than an actual window anyway. I don't see why a black bar is bad, it could easily have a built in camera device.

 

In that case why have a window on the outside at all (assuming it is a window)?

One radical change that popped into my mind the other day was replacing the Gungans with Mon Calamari (I said it was radical).

Almost impossible to imagine how it could be done but just how many sentient amphibious lifeforms does the saga need and it would make us care more about them in Jedi if we met them back in Episode One.

Jar Jar is largely redundant in almost all the films bar the first one (where his unique manner is almost universally loathed) but if he was the young Ackbar we would see him as a founder of the Rebellion and instrumental in the Empire's downfall.

I realise that it would be easier to replace the Mon Calamari with Gungans in Jedi but Ackbar looks so much better.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

To illustrate this point I put Vaderious' interior shot roughly in scale into the window slit of this quite close shot of the head (bear in mind it hasn't been adjusted for shade and it hasn't got window glass and the interior shot is still too big).

You can hardly see a thing.

 

I would still prefer something like the above than nothing at all.   ANYTHING to show that this is not just a model with nothing in it.

Sevb32:
It being a viewscreen would be a cool idea too, but even then that would justify a bluish window or something other than a black bar.

Personally, unless a different model is used (something which would benefit the shot generally) I can't see the point of adding a couple of tiny blobs to a pretty bad model shot or a bluish window that clearly doesn't exist within the story's 'reality' (going by the interior shot).

I'd go down the obscurration route myself , it's a large object in a cold atmosphere that would generate all manner of obscuring factors, snow, ice mist, (bizarre as it may sound there is even a form of heat haze which can be seen in sub-zero temperatures) smoke from the battle etc.

If you can't add depth and weight to the object it might be possible to add it to the air surrounding it.

Something like :

TLSO said:

No offence, but those briefing room mockups are WAY too busy.

None taken, how would you do it?

Bear in mind it is a mock up and not a screenshot and remember most of the time you would be seeing something more like this (not that much more busy than the original shot):

TheBoost said:

Bingowings said:

I believe various versions of the Force theme have been experimented with already with some success (using it creates problems though particularly what do you do with Vader's cremation which already has it).

 

 I for one love the Yub Yub song, but one possibility is to have 'The Immolation Scene' music from ROTS play during the pyre, and Force theme during the end.

 

But yub yub rocks.

Or maybe the Qui-Gon cremation music from TPM.

I quite like the worn look, it would make very a very interesting Pulp Fiction poster style cover set.

Darth Piccolo said:

to add my own suggestion adywan on the close up of the at ats they always came off to me like plastic is it possible to give a kind of metallic feel?

As with adding interior details the only way would be to build a very big head to replace the existing close ups.

The bigger the head the more surface detail and weight can be shown (some of the models for Alien were huge and it really helped to get in close and convey weight but even those models had limits).

The Executor tower seen in ROTJ was enourmous but it couldn't be used to pan into a window because of the scale.

It might be possible to build a very big walker head because it's a smaller object (relatively speaking) but Ady would need more money, more time and it's a lot of hard work (unless there is an industrious model builder out there with time on his or her hands willing to donate their work to the project).

Sluggo said:

Bingowings:  No, I don't think it is.  I think that wiki article is taking a lot of liberties with a storyboard, a comic book and a still of the movie.

I'm not trying to be argumenative, but that's the way I see it.

No worries, I'm not offended at all but it's reasonably well documented. I looked into the subject as closely as I could a long time ago and every account I could find replicated that explanation. Model is lit very harshly which can cause problems with descerning the difference between convex and concave surfaces. It's largely academic as Ady has already said that a standard shuttle will replace it in this edit (unless he's changed his mind).

I believe various versions of the Force theme have been experimented with already with some success (using it creates problems though particularly what do you do with Vader's cremation which already has it).

Sluggo said:

Ganamae said:

  *lots of words*

 

 

 

 Seriously.  This was a scene filmed with models.  Why hasn't a picture of the model used for the shuttle ever surfaced?  It looks like Darth Vader's TIE fighter with the wings inside-out.

As posted above it's a TIE Bomber with the bomb pod removed.

Needa's shuttle was dug up many moons ago and ady has already voiced his intension to replace it.

Monroville said:

Another idea in regards to the AT-AT heads and windows:

I can understand the "red" going away, due to the difficulty in creating the lighting effects inside the cockpit.  Would you consider adding "bluish-white" windows to the AT-ATs instead, so in the close-ups we can see into the windows and see the cockpit crew (ie the "inside window" shots in ALIEN, be it the bridge or Narcissus)?

In fact, if you considered this, you could keep the bluish view of the original 2004 SEs in regards to all of the "window shots looking out" when we are inside the AT-AT bridge (ie, the internal bridge shots are color corrected, but when we are behind the AT-AT drivers the stuff in the window view is the bluish tint, which would then match the bluish-white of the AT-AT windows on all of the outside head shots)

I suggest this because it would help to give the AT-ATs a sense of scale if we could actually see into the window and thus the model.  It is not so much the red color that is important as the idea of the AT-ATs having a viewable interior to help build the illusion that there are people inside.

Vaderios: is there any way you could do some mock-ups (maybe a mix of the what you created before: keeping the original color-corrected cockpit shot looking out at the fleeing rebels (without the red tint), but adding the extra display alterations and lighting) - both inside and outside the AT-AT head (you could take one of the previous AT-AT head shots and take the Veers shot and shrink it down to fit into the window slat).

The problem is that unless Ady builds a very big AT-AT head model there just isn't enough window to show any detail inside.

There also isn't that much light coming from the cockpit.

To illustrate this point I put Vaderious' interior shot roughly in scale into the window slit of this quite close shot of the head (bear in mind it hasn't been adjusted for shade and it hasn't got window glass and the interior shot is still too big).

You can hardly see a thing.

Sluggo said:

The Black Hole wasn't that bad.

It's one of those films like "Lost In Space" and "Hellraiser II" that feel like 2 different films glued together (one rather good and one really awful).

I loved the sets and models and Maximillian is a really scary robot, especially when he drills into Perkins (why weren't the battle droids in the Star Wars prequels that menacing?) but it seemed to want to be serious science fiction (2001 style, only without the actual science) one minute and Buck Rogers (minus the fun) the next.

There are also some brilliant performances mixed in with some terrible ones.

The USS Cygnus deserves to be in a better film (it's so beautiful) and the whole idea of the humanoids was real horror show for a nine year old.

I'd recommend it for a fan edit, someplace else naturally.

DarkFather said:Why the choice to make the chamber so dark?

A number of reasons really.

The original set was blanket lit which highlights that it's largely made up of bits of other older sets and makes even a large space look smaller.

I'm also thinking that any alterations will need a bit of shadow to hide the join and if you are to have a nice open roof bleaching the set in light will detract from that.

My main reason was the element from The Black Hole was dark and I wanted to illustrate an idea without access to 3D modeling skills and it wouldn't work as an illustration if the bottom half was bright white and the top was dark and slightly red.

It's just a mock-up people with better skills and equipment may be able to take the general idea and match it closer to the orignal lighting scheme but I never bought into the Rebels all having white ship interiors and the Imperials all having dark set up.

The control centre in ANH was dark and it added movement and drama to those scenes by having the lights and displays in motion, the white briefing room in ROTJ just looks like a boring set filled with bits and bobs from elsewhere (more Star Trek TNG than Star Wars).

Another rough sketch variation of a tarted up briefing room now with an open roof (coming from Disney's wonderfully designed but otherwise mostly awful The Black Hole).

It might look OTT but some of the original designs were rather similar to this.

Hopefully when Vaderious gets his new PC we will get some nicer versions of these ideas (or if anyone else out there wants to give it a spin that would be great).

It wasn't just the inclusion of Hayden it was the choice of shot of Hayden.

He looks much more sinister in that shot than he ever did as Vader in ROTS, at least Seb Shaw looks benign.

TheBoost said:

DarkFather said:

If Anakin had been allowed to visit his mother and keep better track of her, I doubt he would have ever turned to the dark side. The only reason he reacted so desperately in reaction to the premonitions he was having about Padme's childbirth death, was because he already had the experience of forseeing his mother's death, which came true.

 

 So, if Anakin had been alowed to check up on his mum, he would have been just fine if say, she was hit by a bus, or died of the plague, or eating a bad mushroom? Then he would have just sighed and said 'such is the way of life and death and the Force.' Or would he have gone all lightsaber-crazy on the busdriver?

Or if he did save her, would continuing fear for his mother lead to another premonition, then another, then another.

"I don't want things to change." he said as a kid. If he saved her, would he come to beleive that he could control everything, since it's his actions alone that granted his beloved mother life? Would he need more control, and more power to protect all the people he loved? Would his obsessive fear of loss be lessened by saving his mother one time? I don't think it would.

I think it was the manner of his mother's death that drove him over that edge, she had been kidnapped humilated, re-enslaved (after a brief period of happiness and freedom), something he could have prevented if he wasn't being held back by the Jedi code of detachment. If she had died of an incurable illness or old age I think he could have coped with it (though he would still have wanted to be by her side but I doubt if Jedi get compassionate leave).

If he wasn't kept away from his mother he may have grown up to be less clingy with Padme too but in a cosmic sense Anakin had to become Vader or the Republic would have remained in the corrupt state that Sidious found and worked on (and that includes the Jedi who had become detached to the point of near indolence).

"Can you help him?"
"I don't know. I didn't actually come here to free slaves."

"Then get the hell out of my kitchen and take your stupid frog/snail/racial stereotype friend with you. Jedi! I give them shelter, I give them food and all they want is to steal my kid and brainwash him into their funky wizard ways"

If the new Republic and the new Jedi Order remained as closed to justice as the old, Endor would be a hollow victory. 

Wouldn't this topic work better in the after Adywan thread?

Strictly speaking (unless Ady makes announcements to contrary) ANH:R is done with and anyone making further adjustments to it is effectively making a new edit.