Bingowings

The map screens (as they are) are redundant because there is no way that anyone could use them. The medical droids need to go.

Then you are left with what has to be there all the time and what only needs to be there during the briefing.

The room is clearly a part of the ship command centre that is just being used for the briefing (Ackbar's control blister over hangs the area and we see the holo-table being used as a tactical display during the battle).

An alternative arrangement would be to have the seating area sink when not being used and the map screens and some general controls drop down to fill the space (that way people can get to them to use them and the room becomes a command centre instead of a pointlessly empty (except for surgeon droids?) space.

I'm fine with that configuration too.

But it still needs a total redesign of the room in a battle context.

If anyone has The Art Of Return Of The Jedi the chairs were part of some of the original designs (the only reminder being Ackbar's chair in his little blister) as were the giant holograms being studied above the conference area.

Perhaps the problem you have with it Chainsaw is not the idea but my rough and ready doodles of the idea.

Sevb32 said:

Hmmm, I thought it was more of a viewscreen inside rather than an actual window anyway. I don't see why a black bar is bad, it could easily have a built in camera device.

 

In that case why have a window on the outside at all (assuming it is a window)?

One radical change that popped into my mind the other day was replacing the Gungans with Mon Calamari (I said it was radical).

Almost impossible to imagine how it could be done but just how many sentient amphibious lifeforms does the saga need and it would make us care more about them in Jedi if we met them back in Episode One.

Jar Jar is largely redundant in almost all the films bar the first one (where his unique manner is almost universally loathed) but if he was the young Ackbar we would see him as a founder of the Rebellion and instrumental in the Empire's downfall.

I realise that it would be easier to replace the Mon Calamari with Gungans in Jedi but Ackbar looks so much better.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

To illustrate this point I put Vaderious' interior shot roughly in scale into the window slit of this quite close shot of the head (bear in mind it hasn't been adjusted for shade and it hasn't got window glass and the interior shot is still too big).

You can hardly see a thing.

 

I would still prefer something like the above than nothing at all.   ANYTHING to show that this is not just a model with nothing in it.

Sevb32:
It being a viewscreen would be a cool idea too, but even then that would justify a bluish window or something other than a black bar.

Personally, unless a different model is used (something which would benefit the shot generally) I can't see the point of adding a couple of tiny blobs to a pretty bad model shot or a bluish window that clearly doesn't exist within the story's 'reality' (going by the interior shot).

I'd go down the obscurration route myself , it's a large object in a cold atmosphere that would generate all manner of obscuring factors, snow, ice mist, (bizarre as it may sound there is even a form of heat haze which can be seen in sub-zero temperatures) smoke from the battle etc.

If you can't add depth and weight to the object it might be possible to add it to the air surrounding it.

Something like :

TLSO said:

No offence, but those briefing room mockups are WAY too busy.

None taken, how would you do it?

Bear in mind it is a mock up and not a screenshot and remember most of the time you would be seeing something more like this (not that much more busy than the original shot):

TheBoost said:

Bingowings said:

I believe various versions of the Force theme have been experimented with already with some success (using it creates problems though particularly what do you do with Vader's cremation which already has it).

 

 I for one love the Yub Yub song, but one possibility is to have 'The Immolation Scene' music from ROTS play during the pyre, and Force theme during the end.

 

But yub yub rocks.

Or maybe the Qui-Gon cremation music from TPM.

I quite like the worn look, it would make very a very interesting Pulp Fiction poster style cover set.

Darth Piccolo said:

to add my own suggestion adywan on the close up of the at ats they always came off to me like plastic is it possible to give a kind of metallic feel?

As with adding interior details the only way would be to build a very big head to replace the existing close ups.

The bigger the head the more surface detail and weight can be shown (some of the models for Alien were huge and it really helped to get in close and convey weight but even those models had limits).

The Executor tower seen in ROTJ was enourmous but it couldn't be used to pan into a window because of the scale.

It might be possible to build a very big walker head because it's a smaller object (relatively speaking) but Ady would need more money, more time and it's a lot of hard work (unless there is an industrious model builder out there with time on his or her hands willing to donate their work to the project).

Sluggo said:

Bingowings:  No, I don't think it is.  I think that wiki article is taking a lot of liberties with a storyboard, a comic book and a still of the movie.

I'm not trying to be argumenative, but that's the way I see it.

No worries, I'm not offended at all but it's reasonably well documented. I looked into the subject as closely as I could a long time ago and every account I could find replicated that explanation. Model is lit very harshly which can cause problems with descerning the difference between convex and concave surfaces. It's largely academic as Ady has already said that a standard shuttle will replace it in this edit (unless he's changed his mind).

I believe various versions of the Force theme have been experimented with already with some success (using it creates problems though particularly what do you do with Vader's cremation which already has it).

Sluggo said:

Ganamae said:

  *lots of words*

 

 

 

 Seriously.  This was a scene filmed with models.  Why hasn't a picture of the model used for the shuttle ever surfaced?  It looks like Darth Vader's TIE fighter with the wings inside-out.

As posted above it's a TIE Bomber with the bomb pod removed.

Needa's shuttle was dug up many moons ago and ady has already voiced his intension to replace it.

Monroville said:

Another idea in regards to the AT-AT heads and windows:

I can understand the "red" going away, due to the difficulty in creating the lighting effects inside the cockpit.  Would you consider adding "bluish-white" windows to the AT-ATs instead, so in the close-ups we can see into the windows and see the cockpit crew (ie the "inside window" shots in ALIEN, be it the bridge or Narcissus)?

In fact, if you considered this, you could keep the bluish view of the original 2004 SEs in regards to all of the "window shots looking out" when we are inside the AT-AT bridge (ie, the internal bridge shots are color corrected, but when we are behind the AT-AT drivers the stuff in the window view is the bluish tint, which would then match the bluish-white of the AT-AT windows on all of the outside head shots)

I suggest this because it would help to give the AT-ATs a sense of scale if we could actually see into the window and thus the model.  It is not so much the red color that is important as the idea of the AT-ATs having a viewable interior to help build the illusion that there are people inside.

Vaderios: is there any way you could do some mock-ups (maybe a mix of the what you created before: keeping the original color-corrected cockpit shot looking out at the fleeing rebels (without the red tint), but adding the extra display alterations and lighting) - both inside and outside the AT-AT head (you could take one of the previous AT-AT head shots and take the Veers shot and shrink it down to fit into the window slat).

The problem is that unless Ady builds a very big AT-AT head model there just isn't enough window to show any detail inside.

There also isn't that much light coming from the cockpit.

To illustrate this point I put Vaderious' interior shot roughly in scale into the window slit of this quite close shot of the head (bear in mind it hasn't been adjusted for shade and it hasn't got window glass and the interior shot is still too big).

You can hardly see a thing.

Sluggo said:

The Black Hole wasn't that bad.

It's one of those films like "Lost In Space" and "Hellraiser II" that feel like 2 different films glued together (one rather good and one really awful).

I loved the sets and models and Maximillian is a really scary robot, especially when he drills into Perkins (why weren't the battle droids in the Star Wars prequels that menacing?) but it seemed to want to be serious science fiction (2001 style, only without the actual science) one minute and Buck Rogers (minus the fun) the next.

There are also some brilliant performances mixed in with some terrible ones.

The USS Cygnus deserves to be in a better film (it's so beautiful) and the whole idea of the humanoids was real horror show for a nine year old.

I'd recommend it for a fan edit, someplace else naturally.

DarkFather said:Why the choice to make the chamber so dark?

A number of reasons really.

The original set was blanket lit which highlights that it's largely made up of bits of other older sets and makes even a large space look smaller.

I'm also thinking that any alterations will need a bit of shadow to hide the join and if you are to have a nice open roof bleaching the set in light will detract from that.

My main reason was the element from The Black Hole was dark and I wanted to illustrate an idea without access to 3D modeling skills and it wouldn't work as an illustration if the bottom half was bright white and the top was dark and slightly red.

It's just a mock-up people with better skills and equipment may be able to take the general idea and match it closer to the orignal lighting scheme but I never bought into the Rebels all having white ship interiors and the Imperials all having dark set up.

The control centre in ANH was dark and it added movement and drama to those scenes by having the lights and displays in motion, the white briefing room in ROTJ just looks like a boring set filled with bits and bobs from elsewhere (more Star Trek TNG than Star Wars).

Another rough sketch variation of a tarted up briefing room now with an open roof (coming from Disney's wonderfully designed but otherwise mostly awful The Black Hole).

It might look OTT but some of the original designs were rather similar to this.

Hopefully when Vaderious gets his new PC we will get some nicer versions of these ideas (or if anyone else out there wants to give it a spin that would be great).

It wasn't just the inclusion of Hayden it was the choice of shot of Hayden.

He looks much more sinister in that shot than he ever did as Vader in ROTS, at least Seb Shaw looks benign.

TheBoost said:

DarkFather said:

If Anakin had been allowed to visit his mother and keep better track of her, I doubt he would have ever turned to the dark side. The only reason he reacted so desperately in reaction to the premonitions he was having about Padme's childbirth death, was because he already had the experience of forseeing his mother's death, which came true.

 

 So, if Anakin had been alowed to check up on his mum, he would have been just fine if say, she was hit by a bus, or died of the plague, or eating a bad mushroom? Then he would have just sighed and said 'such is the way of life and death and the Force.' Or would he have gone all lightsaber-crazy on the busdriver?

Or if he did save her, would continuing fear for his mother lead to another premonition, then another, then another.

"I don't want things to change." he said as a kid. If he saved her, would he come to beleive that he could control everything, since it's his actions alone that granted his beloved mother life? Would he need more control, and more power to protect all the people he loved? Would his obsessive fear of loss be lessened by saving his mother one time? I don't think it would.

I think it was the manner of his mother's death that drove him over that edge, she had been kidnapped humilated, re-enslaved (after a brief period of happiness and freedom), something he could have prevented if he wasn't being held back by the Jedi code of detachment. If she had died of an incurable illness or old age I think he could have coped with it (though he would still have wanted to be by her side but I doubt if Jedi get compassionate leave).

If he wasn't kept away from his mother he may have grown up to be less clingy with Padme too but in a cosmic sense Anakin had to become Vader or the Republic would have remained in the corrupt state that Sidious found and worked on (and that includes the Jedi who had become detached to the point of near indolence).

"Can you help him?"
"I don't know. I didn't actually come here to free slaves."

"Then get the hell out of my kitchen and take your stupid frog/snail/racial stereotype friend with you. Jedi! I give them shelter, I give them food and all they want is to steal my kid and brainwash him into their funky wizard ways"

If the new Republic and the new Jedi Order remained as closed to justice as the old, Endor would be a hollow victory. 

Wouldn't this topic work better in the after Adywan thread?

Strictly speaking (unless Ady makes announcements to contrary) ANH:R is done with and anyone making further adjustments to it is effectively making a new edit.

DarkFather said:

If Anakin had been allowed to visit his mother and keep better track of her, I doubt he would have ever turned to the dark side. The only reason he reacted so desperately in reaction to the premonitions he was having about Padme's childbirth death, was because he already had the experience of forseeing his mother's death, which came true.

I guess the Jedi went way out of their way to make sure Anakin never maintained emotional attachments, and were afraid that if he saw his mother, all of their work in training him would be undone.

Exactly the point I was making, their inflexible handling of Anakin caused everything they feared might happen with him to happen.

Ziz said:

Bingowings said:

I read it (after ROTJ but the signs are there) that Vader is sensing Leia and mistaking her for Luke, knowing Han helped Luke escape the Death Star and shot up his ship adds to the assumption that the person strong in the Force in that ship is Luke (when he finds he isn't there he improvises the trap at Bespin knowing that Luke will feel the pain of his friends).

Dude, that's just Lucasizing.

 

Vader had no way to know where Luke was during the battle, so failing any hard evidence that he was fighting the walkers, the other logical place for him to be would be on the Falcon during the escape.  And from a "capture the Rebels" perspective, he figured that's where Leia would be too, so it made sense to chase the Falcon instead of worrying about individual X-Wings.

I'm not sure how much was happy happenstance and how far ahead at that point things were being planned but Leia/Sister thing isn't as far fetched as it may have seemed back in 1983.

Vader knows Luke is on Hoth as soon as he sees the probe droid data, (the connection seems more than just instinctive and if the Force is leading him Leia is there too), Leia's dark side manifests in choking Lando by proxy (just like her dad), when Luke reaches out to Leia while hanging off the antenna she picks up his location instantly.

I know Gary Kurtz insists that the other/sister was originally meant to be a totally different character but the only things getting in the way of the link are those retroactively rather uncomfortable snogging scenes (and in the real world attraction between seperated siblings is a well recorded).

So if I'm Lucasizing, so be it (not every Lucas idea is a dud if that was the case none of us would be here would we?).

Vader sensed Obi-Wan in ANH so why shouldn't he sense the child (which he didn't know he had in ANH) on the Falcon in ESB?

He just didn't know there was more than one (even Padme didn't know that until they hatched).

doubleofive said:

Adding Hayden to RotJ was already the best definition of "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."  Adding thousands of other Jedi would change the ending of RotJ significantly and make it look less like "the redemption of Anakin Skywalker" and more like "the redemption of Jedi as a whole", which is not the point of the saga by any definition.

The Jedi are as much to blame for the rise of Palpatine as anyone else, in the hands of a better actor than Hayden we could see Anakin had a point. He was expected to be the chosen one but was never trusted and the Jedi seemed to go out of their way to make mountains out of the bumps in his character (would it have hurt to let Anakin check up on his mother once in a while, especially if he is getting disturbing premonitions about her fate?).

The Senate were just as bad (they get hung up about the Seperatists but never bothered about the human slavery on their doorstep before all that kicked off in fact they created a whole army of slaves to fight in their wars which bit them back when Palpatine created the Empire).

This adds to the lack of need for more Jedi to turn up in the end, the old order had to pass and Anakin/Vader had to fall to pull it down and be redeemed to allow it to grow again.

Troy said:

fffffff said:

I am willing to help anyone I can. What is it your looking for?

 

 Is this a queston directed at me? Because if it is, then if you have anything along the lines of the Highlander II edits or the Indiana Jones edits, Bond and some Terminator 3 and Matrix stuff.

You might get lucky here but you may find that posting on the other boards will get better results when it comes to non-Star Wars material.

Beautiful work all round, my better half (who isn't a Star Wars fan) demanded a copy as soon as I put it on.

My ROTS FLAC ends rather abruptly when played through VLC (I'll try it in something else to make sure the file isn't corrupted).

We see the Falcon being pursued by the fleet (presumably by ships which were formerly blockading the planet mixed in with ships waiting in the general area to pick off ships getting past the initial blockade) so it's not vital (though one or two ships including a few wrecks would paint a bleaker picture all round).