Bingowings

For the head and claws I'd go for theatrical wig and beard hair suppliers (if I could go back in time to the early nineties I'd know just the place to get it too...darn).

The original puppet looks more like a shaggy misshaped human than a polar bear and the face is more hairy than furry, you might be able to massacre several out of season Santa wigs and beards, (a bit of spirit gum, morticians wax and razor blades can do wonders).

For the body, most of these suppliers are outside the UK but they might help.

http://www.andrewdavidson.com/links/faux-fur/ 

if it's horns you are after this might help too.

http://speyside-horn.co.uk/rawmaterial.html

They sell products made from horn but I'm sure if you contacted them they could get you some untouched samples.

HotRod said:

What does the typeface University Roman tell about a guy??

 

 

Do you mean USC Roman or Berkeley Roman?

If you mean just plain University Roman (a very nasty letroset advertising typeface from 1972 designed by Bruce Rogers, the better half once knew him) I'd say you are the type of person who likes really tacky romantic novels or low price chocolate selection boxes (Terry's All Gold or Milk Tray).

HotRod said:

Jonno said:

Bingowings: Yes, I've got those tapes from the Executor set somewhere too. The simple lightsaber designs were certainly nicer than the new 'paintings' on the individual versions (I guess it was around this time that LFL decided they needed to reinvent the wheel for every goddamn release!)

No idea if that set is worth anything, though as an aside the documentaries - MOSW, SPFX, CC and FSTJ - look far better on those PAL tapes than anywhere else I've seen them...

Ziz: Unfortunately the other UK rental tapes were a lot less distinctive:





I don't even have these tapes any more, though I doubt they're rare if anyone was inclined to rewShork them...

 

Shit, this brings back some merories. I have all these vhs tapes. I paid (well I say I paid, my mother really) £56 for ESB bak in 84 when it was first released. Man I wathched that tape to death. Still have them, and all the other vhs released tapes too. I think I own the trilogy including dvd's about 8 times. What a mug!!! ha

 

And this is the Executor box set covers I modified for DVD

I love those, what sabres would you put on a prequel set?

Double Post

Sumguy21 said:

I like the scene, everything looks very good. Very natural. However, I don't like the "lightning" effect on the ion cannon. It makes it pretty obvious what software you used and distracts from the scene.

Only if you know what software was being used (most people wouldn't), I'm sure the guys who work in the industry are incredible jades when it comes to viewing special effects shots but the majority of the paying audiences wouldn't give a monkey's as long as it looked good at helped propel the story.

JasonN said:God, have people even bothered to LOOK at the content of this documentary first before forming an opinon on it? This is not a 100% "Bashing Lucas" film - it gives both sides of the George Lucas issue an equal share of film to discuss and give voice to their praises or condemnations of Lucas and his work, his decisions, and the path that he's decided on for the SW legacy.

Nobody on here has suggested that the documentary is Lucas bashing, I think it is reasonable for people not to want to be seen as such though, especially if it impacts on the creative work people are doing here (look what happened to Fanedit.org which went out of it's way to discourage piracy and encourage the purchase of the original source materials but still had to remove all of it's links).

So far Lucasfilm has encouraged fan films and not actively pursued fan editors (just people selling edits).

If this documentary puts what goes on here and on related sites under a Lucasentric spot light that attitude might change.

Jonno said:

I love the retro approach to custom covers (particularly considering how bloody awful the official design ethic has become), so I was all set to use MoveAlong's design for my Pwnage disc.

However, for a few pennies I laid my hands on an original UK rental VHS - a tape with particular nostalgia value to me - so I thought I'd have a crack at reworking its cover for DVD:

Of course, it should be used with a white amaray for the full effect:

I can make this available - and indeed the original scan - if there's any interest.

I had this version (and the original ESB and ROTJ UK versions) but I gave it away (what a silly billy).

I then got the first widescreen versions and gave them away too.

Finally I got the Executor tin set (is it worth much?) and I've still got that.

The sabre covers would make a nice set (and a prequel version could be made too but the Sith sabres are the most easy to recognise).

TheBoost said:

wwdarth said:

But...why?  Hopefully, just for the fun of it.

STAR WARS is what it is.  An amazing piece of entertainment.  I was 7 years old in 77, so believe me when I say it literally changed my life...not to mention giving me a tremendous childhood.  White sabres can be annoying, but there is a also a certain charm that goes along with grainy film and that original LUCASFILM logo.

Don't get me wrong, what Adywan did was...incredible, and he should be applauded for such a time consuming, creative undertaking.  If nothing else, it's a bold statement to Lucas to say this is how you fix a lightsabre...it's really not all that hard to tell the difference between blue and green.  If Adywan can make a cinema quality special edition, why can't Lucas fix the blatant errors with his own professional release?  I'm all for recompositing fx shots to get rid of matte lines as well as other subtle digital fixes where the original just wasn't good enough.  However, if I'm being honest that's where I would draw the line at repairs.

Yes it's fun to hear "Vader's March" in ANH, or find out the limits of a new space battle on home video/computer equipment...but some things should remain the same.  When Obi-Wan paused to exchange with a telling smile with Vader befor being cut down, it was that musical cue that brings me back to childhood viewings and embodies the original film.  Yes, it was interesting to see how the prequal music fit over the beginning of the scene which wasn't scored...but if the original cue now is substituted or sped up to make room for a prequal cue, to me at least, that's just as bad as Greedo shooting first.

Preach on brother.

Like you, I also totally dig Adywan's work. But what he did, while very cool, didn't perfect the movie. In my mind, 'Star Wars' was perfect to begin with.

I used to have my SE VHS on the shelf next to the REAL versions. Now I happily have Ady's version in the same DVD case as the REAL version (laserdisk rip).

Although I disagree on drawing the line at repairs. That's one of the reasons I like Ady's title "Revisited." It, and all OT fan edits, can only ADD to the experience and the love, they can never replace it. It lets me experience it again, with fresh eyes.

I also like it because I convinced my roommate it was the sequal to Brideshead Revisited.

Seeing as Lucas started this the moment he began adjusting his own film back in 1978ish I don't see how making varient versions is any more puzzling now than it was back then.

ANH is ANH because George altered a film called Star Wars.

As for there being a Real version and varient less Real versions of the story, surely that's something more for individual viewers to decide and not for any author or editor to dictate.

Since Conan Doyle first started writing Holmes stories people have been debating who or what is the definative Sherlock Holmes.

Is it Holmes as written about by Doyle in A Study In Scarlet, is it Holmes as drawn by Sidney Paget, is Holmes as played by Rathbone, Cushing or Brett?

It's a debate that will never end.

For some people these edits are just playful fun but to some it's an attempt to find and share an idealised form of a story that is important to them.

I have no problem with anyone who sees any version of these films as their Real Star Wars but none of us should delude ourselves into believing there is one universal definative version.

I haven't the means to burn the DVD-9 version so I've had to content myself with the DVD-5 version.

Also I'm not sure if now's the time.

With so many interesting projects (not all of which are Lucas related) on the go this is just the sort of publicity that could bring the legal blast doors slamming down and kill them off.

Most editors of Lucas aren't against him but are ironically more for his work than he is, these edits are essentially an act of salvage more than protest.

I think it's, "Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?" guy.

He had just enough of the Force with him to sense his fate but not enough to avoid it.

What a relief to finally (after so many broken promises from GL) not see through those X-wings.

Everything looks so clean and crisp, it really looks like it was filmed yesterday and not nearly three decades ago.

I think that is a rather pretty image in it's own right (warts and all).

Some of the blerb on the back is hilariously badly written, how can an Empire be anything but Imperial (it's like saying the American Americans)? I wasn't aware that Han, Leia etc were trying to take over the Empire, I thought they were trying to get rid of it altogether.

It's not as bad as some of the early VHS releases in the UK which committed the mortal sin of calling Han, Hans.

It seems daft to me that in this instance this room still has map screens stuck on the ceiling where nobody can get to them and the only things in this useful space on the flag ship are two guys and two surgeon droids.

It should be an active command centre like the one seen in ANH, with maps screens people can get to, alternative displays for monitoring the entire battle and controls, is Ackbar's huge ship being controlled by the four or five chaps in his little blister?

The idea being a bit like when a school gym is being used for an assembly or play.

The gym equipment is folded up against the wall but when it's a gym the seating is removed and the gym equipment is folded out.

Briefing over down go the seats into the floor and down from the ceiling come the map screens and the room is filled with battle tacticians and the like.

Another way of looking at it is thinking about all those speakeasy scenes in films like Bugsy Malone where the tables turn around or flip under the floor and suddenly it's a Bible recital or a charming little tearoom.

doubleofive said:

Bingowings said:

The room is clearly a part of the ship command centre that is just being used for the briefing (Ackbar's control blister over hangs the area and we see the holo-table being used as a tactical display during the battle.

Really?  I never noticed.

 

Remember when the shield goes down tech guys are monitoring the hologram of the Death Star just before Ackbar commands that fleet moves away before it explodes.

The map screens (as they are) are redundant because there is no way that anyone could use them. The medical droids need to go.

Then you are left with what has to be there all the time and what only needs to be there during the briefing.

The room is clearly a part of the ship command centre that is just being used for the briefing (Ackbar's control blister over hangs the area and we see the holo-table being used as a tactical display during the battle).

An alternative arrangement would be to have the seating area sink when not being used and the map screens and some general controls drop down to fill the space (that way people can get to them to use them and the room becomes a command centre instead of a pointlessly empty (except for surgeon droids?) space.

I'm fine with that configuration too.

But it still needs a total redesign of the room in a battle context.

If anyone has The Art Of Return Of The Jedi the chairs were part of some of the original designs (the only reminder being Ackbar's chair in his little blister) as were the giant holograms being studied above the conference area.

Perhaps the problem you have with it Chainsaw is not the idea but my rough and ready doodles of the idea.

Sevb32 said:

Hmmm, I thought it was more of a viewscreen inside rather than an actual window anyway. I don't see why a black bar is bad, it could easily have a built in camera device.

 

In that case why have a window on the outside at all (assuming it is a window)?

One radical change that popped into my mind the other day was replacing the Gungans with Mon Calamari (I said it was radical).

Almost impossible to imagine how it could be done but just how many sentient amphibious lifeforms does the saga need and it would make us care more about them in Jedi if we met them back in Episode One.

Jar Jar is largely redundant in almost all the films bar the first one (where his unique manner is almost universally loathed) but if he was the young Ackbar we would see him as a founder of the Rebellion and instrumental in the Empire's downfall.

I realise that it would be easier to replace the Mon Calamari with Gungans in Jedi but Ackbar looks so much better.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

To illustrate this point I put Vaderious' interior shot roughly in scale into the window slit of this quite close shot of the head (bear in mind it hasn't been adjusted for shade and it hasn't got window glass and the interior shot is still too big).

You can hardly see a thing.

 

I would still prefer something like the above than nothing at all.   ANYTHING to show that this is not just a model with nothing in it.

Sevb32:
It being a viewscreen would be a cool idea too, but even then that would justify a bluish window or something other than a black bar.

Personally, unless a different model is used (something which would benefit the shot generally) I can't see the point of adding a couple of tiny blobs to a pretty bad model shot or a bluish window that clearly doesn't exist within the story's 'reality' (going by the interior shot).

I'd go down the obscurration route myself , it's a large object in a cold atmosphere that would generate all manner of obscuring factors, snow, ice mist, (bizarre as it may sound there is even a form of heat haze which can be seen in sub-zero temperatures) smoke from the battle etc.

If you can't add depth and weight to the object it might be possible to add it to the air surrounding it.

Something like :

TLSO said:

No offence, but those briefing room mockups are WAY too busy.

None taken, how would you do it?

Bear in mind it is a mock up and not a screenshot and remember most of the time you would be seeing something more like this (not that much more busy than the original shot):

TheBoost said:

Bingowings said:

I believe various versions of the Force theme have been experimented with already with some success (using it creates problems though particularly what do you do with Vader's cremation which already has it).

 

 I for one love the Yub Yub song, but one possibility is to have 'The Immolation Scene' music from ROTS play during the pyre, and Force theme during the end.

 

But yub yub rocks.

Or maybe the Qui-Gon cremation music from TPM.

I quite like the worn look, it would make very a very interesting Pulp Fiction poster style cover set.

Darth Piccolo said:

to add my own suggestion adywan on the close up of the at ats they always came off to me like plastic is it possible to give a kind of metallic feel?

As with adding interior details the only way would be to build a very big head to replace the existing close ups.

The bigger the head the more surface detail and weight can be shown (some of the models for Alien were huge and it really helped to get in close and convey weight but even those models had limits).

The Executor tower seen in ROTJ was enourmous but it couldn't be used to pan into a window because of the scale.

It might be possible to build a very big walker head because it's a smaller object (relatively speaking) but Ady would need more money, more time and it's a lot of hard work (unless there is an industrious model builder out there with time on his or her hands willing to donate their work to the project).

Sluggo said:

Bingowings:  No, I don't think it is.  I think that wiki article is taking a lot of liberties with a storyboard, a comic book and a still of the movie.

I'm not trying to be argumenative, but that's the way I see it.

No worries, I'm not offended at all but it's reasonably well documented. I looked into the subject as closely as I could a long time ago and every account I could find replicated that explanation. Model is lit very harshly which can cause problems with descerning the difference between convex and concave surfaces. It's largely academic as Ady has already said that a standard shuttle will replace it in this edit (unless he's changed his mind).

I believe various versions of the Force theme have been experimented with already with some success (using it creates problems though particularly what do you do with Vader's cremation which already has it).