Maclanachu said:
Hope it's ok to post this here. Pretty funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAHYftmwY0U&feature=player_embedded
That is great, it might work with the Throne Room/ Medal Ceremony march from ANH.
The Airwolf one is great too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbh61zuNYr8&feature=related
The A-Team one is also fun.
MattMahdi said:SKot said:I'm not sure exactly when McQuarrie painted the original piece, but I believe it was well before production began on the Holiday Special, and served as an inspiration for the show. I'm guessing it was earlier in 1978, when ideas were being thrown around for the Special.
Yeah.... It's just that, given all the neat pre-production images he did, many wildly different from what actually made it into the film, there's the dream that it was a conception of the plan for Jedi: a planet of Wookiees.
Not unlike my first thoughts when I saw the partially built Death Star II. Wasn't a clear picture, and I didn't know a new one was being built, so my mind leapt to an interesting conclusion: it was the shell of the original station, the part opposite the direction of the blast that destroyed it. The Imperials had found it, were refurbishing it....
Neither dream true, of course. But pleasant alternate realities.
I think a lot of us thought that too but we did see the thing pretty much reduced to glitter in the first film which ruled that possibility out.
Unless you do this :
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-One-Death-Star-to-Rule-Them-All-6-become-1-and-only-1/topic/9797/
See this is the sort of thing I'm thinking of Davnes007 has just posted a bit of footage up on Youtube and we can now comment on it.
If this was done with complete edited scenes we could all comment on which scene fits best next to which other scene and a fan editor like Ady could then construct that into a new workprint.
Going on that particular clip it obvious that the motion of the trap is a nightmare to edit around.
I'd recommend isolating the close up shots where the traps motion is less obvious and keep the trap moving smoothly in the long shots but where possible shift the dialogue (when we don't see the actors lips moving) to run in the background of the more static inserts (like R2's saw).
But it's easy for me to type this podoo, it's not so easy to actually do it.
DarkFather said:Your reordering and alteration of those scenes sounds intriguing.
Bingowings, do keep this in mind: I believe you know just as well as I do that if ROTJ is to be edited in a way that brings it up to the caliber of the previous two Star Wars films, your "radical redux" philosophy will need to be applied.
My thinking behind that configuration is that Yoda has just confirmed to Luke that Vader is his father, so enter Vader, later Ben says his feelings could be used by another, so enter the other.
But I can see how having Boussh turn up after Yoda's mention of the other would create a bit of foreshadowing before Ben confirms it but I'm finding it hard to square without the droids being in place.
I'm also thinking that Yoda shouldn't get a chance to mention that the other is a Skywalker before dying just to keep the surprise for a bit later so now he dies saying "There is..another" rather than "There is...another Skywalker".
As always how that turns out will come out in the wash.
Playing with the Boba Fett leaves to sell the Death Star location idea and the other other Death Star, the Executor attacking the Death Star 3 instead of bumping into the Death Star 2 are all radical ideas which are worth a try.
But it's important to get the basic story worked out in the right order before adding the big stuff.
I'm not Ady so this will really just be adding to the great leap that the Fan-O-Matic started (so still a rough sketch rather than a glorious fan edit) but it could serve as a guide to what is possible for more skilled film makers and editors out there.
I can see Chainsaw's point of view too so as I said before playing around with the order is the only way to be sure.
It might make sense to put each altered scene up a seperate mini film so everyone can fiddle about with which order they play it on Youtube or something like that and perhaps get a consensus opinion.
Davnes007 said:
It was mentioned before about how the Ewoks could be made to be more menacing, so I made a quick little video of the "Dead Animal On A Stick" scene, with a StormTrooper helmet inserted. I know it's crude, but I only did it to see how it would look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwOjAgaxE10
Don't hold back...be critical, and abusive...I can take it..... ;)
I know it's rough and ready but putting the roughness to one side the idea seems to work (though perhaps the music should be changed to something a bit more sinister (it is a bit jolly for a moment of potential peril...it works a lot better with the sound turned down).
The best way around the roughness would be film the helmet (or head) on a stick as a new element rather than trying to just plop the helmet on what's already there.
I'd cut Han trying to reach for Luke's lightsabre but keep the line in only in the background while R2 cuts the ropes (but cut Threepio's Capt Obvious line about the drop...we are about to find that out for ourselves).
Perhaps the trap could have some sort of bells on it to alert the Ewoks to it being sprung.
I copied this from the ESB:R thread where the mispositioned post aided by old age and just coming back from the shop lead to my brain melting into a pool of goo.
Could you remove the post from the ESB: R thread to avoid other dipsticks like me from falling into the same trap?
DarkFather said:
I like the idea of starting on Tatooine and just deleting the opening Death Star scene;
That was one of the few decent parts in this otherwise incipid mess of a film. It's the last time Vader still had that distinguishable vibe that made him so popular as a villain in ANH and ESB.
Once I have the new computer up and running I will be attempting variations on the Fan-O-Matic.
My instincts tell me that Dagobah (ending with Yoda's death) followed by Vader arriving at the Death Star 2 on the Executor with a redubbed Moff Jejerrod (he seems a bit too camp for a commandant) followed by Luke in Ben's Hut meeting Ben's ghost, followed by the Emperor arriving, followed by Droids on their way to Jabba is more the way to go.
But I won't be sure until I've tried out other combinations.
I've deleted my reply to the head on a stick post as it doesn't belong here and moved it to the ESB/ROTJ Wishlist Thread.
I'm not trying to be funny or anything but if it's just the one scene and you have ADM's extended cut couldn't you do it?
AxiaEuxine said:Dagobah, remove all the damn completely terran frigging lizards. Or give 'em a non-terran stripe of color or something to make me feel Im not in the lizard house at the San Diego Zoo
Sith eyes? (it is a nightmare domain of the dark side and it would make them look more alien).
That's given me an idea which I might do, in The Last Temptation of Christ, Satan appears as animals that have the voices of Jesus' friends.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXuRaxTavBM
Having the cave as a domain of the dark side it might be fun to do an edit where the memories of Sith Lords past and present hang around in the place.
It could be edited in such a way that it looks almost like the lizards and snakes are talking in the voices of Maul, Dooku, Palpatine and the like (little red and black snake for Maul).
I'm not suggesting it for ESB:R but it might make for an interesting scene.
AxiaEuxine said:So in Return of the Jedi right after our intrepid heroes meet the Ewoks the first time Threepio talks to them. We then hear two Ewoks say something to one another. I swear to god it sounds like they say.
"that guy's wise"
"no, he's short"I have "heard" these Ewoks say that for as long as I can remember. Can we edit out that small ewok speaking line or modify it someway so I dont hear those two crazy lines that have been driving me nuts since Jedi was first released to video?
That's just like the "Mom look!" after Han shoots Greedo, come to think of it doesn't Wicket say "Oh! I get ya" when Leia is explaining about the hat and the food?
And I swear that the Ewoks at one point say of Threepio "He's a woman".
I think there have been calls to redub many of the performances in the prequels. The OT used redubbing as a tool to improve the final cut, just look at the lost cut of the Cantina scene from ANH (it's like Eastenders on acid). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxXormkENVI
Fan edits.
Love them?
Hate them?
Like them to gently iron out a few problems?
Want them to shake up and radically change the films we all know so well?
Clearly there are a lot of people who have strong feelings on the subject as posts on the limits and merits of fan-edits have appeared on many threads on these boards.
Rather than spreading the subject around and risk pulling those other threads off track I thought I’d start this thread to let people shoot first (or second or at the same time)…without the need to apologise for the mess.
Please can we not talk about PT:R or ANH:R or ROTJ:R here unless it is relevant to ESB:R directly.
There are threads where those subjects can be talked about without clogging this thread up and Adywan has already asked us to stop.
If it helps I'm going to start a fan edit debate thread to try and direct some of the various posts debating the values and limits of fan-editing away from those and these threads as this debating aspect seems to be popping up all over the place and is clearly something some people want to discuss and need a forum for. http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Star-Wars-Fan-Edit-Great-Debate-Thread/topic/10269/
But small infractions aside it's always best to remember the topic title.
corellian77 said:^ I don't think speederbikes would make for a logical addition to the Battle of Hoth. Their use makes sense in ROTJ because, given the density of the forest, they are the only real means of transportation (aside from the AT-STs). On Hoth, however, any Imperial trooper riding a bike would be an easy target for the rebels. The idea for the Empire here isn't speed, it's defensibility while making a frontal assault (which is where the AT-ATs, with their impenetrable armour, comes in).
I'm not sure if logic can be brought into play here.
What's the logic of putting speeder bikes in an environment full of hard obstacles that are almost impossible to avoid travelling at high speed (like say...a forest moon)?
What's the logic of mounting an assault using walking attack vehicles that can be brought to the ground by unstable ground conditions (like say...a forest moon)?
That said, speeder bikes on Hoth aren't something I really feel the need to see, though it would be nice to have more AT-STs on that hard stable frozen plain (without logs).
ben_danger said:i quite liked the way he used the gun, but the whole grevious bursting into flames was a little over the top. could have been better perhaps if grevious just violently hit the floor after being shot. anticlimactic end of the war.
It might have been better still if Grievious fell to his death (don't all Star Wars villains take a tumble?) to create a degree of ambiguity over who Vader really is.
OzoneSherrif said:Chrille said:I think the biggest problem with this movie is the battle of Endor. The ground portion of it, anyway. IMO, it simply looks childish the way the Ewoks are taking out the storm troopers. They hit them with sticks and punches them, yet it is plainly obvious that their blows aren't forceful at all. It looks almost like their poking them. The battle is played for laughts, which it shouldn't be. The battles of Hoth and Yavin were serious without cartoony humour.
Those who defend the battle usually say that the ewoks were loosing, that it was only Chewie stealing the scout walker that changed the course and brought the battle arround. Fair enough, but the movie does not convey this fact. Before that point, the movie shows plenty of ewoks ambushing storm troopers, but only a measly 1 ewok gets killed. Compare that to the novel, where the ewoks are almost slaughtered, but their great strenght in numbers assures that they keep on coming.
I'm not sure if and how Ady would do it, but ROTJ would benefit greatly from cutting the silliest, most unconvincing parts, and somehow add many more ewok causulties. Not that we need to linger on them, like with Corpsey (yes, that's his name apparantly), but just show it in passing. How that would be done is another matter though.
Yes and even the Stormtroopers just stumble around like idiots or when they do find the rebels they tell them to freeze instead of taking them out. the whole battle is a farce. how can all this be fixed short of going out to the redwood forest and filming new scenes?
You could understand the troopers wanting to keep the main heroes alive as hostages (to aid Luke's turn and for the intelligence they have on the Rebellion) but why do they seperate to get help (and get killed) don't they have comlinks on Endor?
As I said above some of the problems with the ground battle are down to the tone set once the main battle kicks off.
The music is telling us they are going to win and they win (no surprise there), the slapstick decipates tension instead of enhancing it, the Ewoks diminutive stature is played with rather than played against (all those heave ho noises they make while trying to slow down the walker legs (with a split screen set up masked by a handy tree that looks like it came from some bad King Kong rip off too).
It's hard to take the Ewok's seriously as an audience when the director (or directors going by most accounts) refuses to.
The intension here was to show that what the Empire literally sees as the little people are underestimated, it's not just the Emperor that is over confident it's the whole Empire that has got so used to winning that it takes it's eye of the ball but the direction falls into the same trap as the fictional Empire.
That's why I suggested the trap that Chewie sets off be baited with a dead Imperial because it sets up that the Ewoks have already had some experience in this sort of thing and the Rebels just help co-ordinate their already deadly skills (those Walker smashing traps could have been planned before the Rebels turned up).
If it is edited with respect for these creatures the viewers will respond to them with repect.
The same goes with Imperials (these are supposed to be the Emperor's best troops, hand picked for a decisive battle) they should kill not just some but quite a few of their targets to be a threat worth beating.
There should be more weapons on the ground here (the Rebels are caught off guard and aren't well equipped but the Imperials know they are coming) the Rebels and the Ewoks should steal more of this equipment (not just one AT-ST and a few rifles).
TheBoost said:Bingowings said:If we all felt that way there wouldn't be any fan-edits and where would that lead us?
It seems bizarre to me to come onto a discussion board about fan-edits (which don't erase the originals from history) and express concern about changes to these films.
There are restoration projects out there for people who want to preserve previously issued but damaged or degraded versions of the trilogy as it is. The originals exist for those who love the films the way they are, there are milder edits for people who want a few changes here and there so why not make more radical changes if you are of the opinion that Jedi and prequels don't work in their current form?
I don't think we need to be completely uncritical of every idea. I think the desire to make Star Wars a lil' more 'bad ass' is a desire that seems to get a little overdone sometimes, in my humble opinion, and I expressed that. I wasnt even trying to be critical of a particular idea, just the overall trend.
Oh I agree that people should weigh up the pros and cons of every suggestion but it should be constructive criticsm which encourages people to look at even the most out there idea and see how it can be seriously adapted and what it actually adds or subtracts from the story.
As I pointed out the original versions are out there so there is no need to be precious about them and rule out changes, even really bold ones.
It's not like we are artexing the Sistine Chapel ceiling here, no fan-edit will destroy the original version so any alteration idea is better out in the open for consideration than trapped behind nervous lips where they can't be of service to anyone.
vaderios said:Alderaan has no weapons. Naboo has. any ideas of that fact?
-Angel
This matter was raised before.
Naboo has a small defensive force during the prequel era (not enough to mount an attack on someone else and hardly enough to defend themselves) after the fall of the Republic even these weapons could have gone.
I have a kitchen drawer full of knives which could be used as weapons but that doesn't make Chateau Bingowings a hidden fortress.
Monroville said:
Not sure about the top one but I do like the bottom one, in that it would make the droids more consistent. I would still make the droids silver with the red eyes though (maybe a lighter, more reflective shade than the one you have here, Bingo)
They are meant to be the same droids but one with the neck folded down for safety and the other with the neck pulled up for greater visability. If you look at the super battledroids you can still see the classic battledroid head hidden between the shoulders so all I did was have it pop up (like a turtle out of it's shell) so it can get a better view.
So if one thing is possible the reverse should be possible too.
It might be difficult to work that out from the quick Photoshop mock up though.
Looking at those battledroids a couple of obvious configurations spring to mind which might add a bit of variety and interest to them from time to time through out the prequels.
vaderios said:Monroville said:(3) Making Grevious into Maul would give Maul "more to do" as well as:
(a) make the fight between Grevious/Maul and Obi Wan a little more personal - being that it would mean Obi having to face the guy who killed his master once again
(b) give further explanation to Grevious' lightsabre stuff (as in: he has the skill to operate a lightsabre much less has multiple sabres because he has always been a Sith Lord hunting Jedi between TPM and AOTC)
(c) would serve as a nice lead-up to what is going to happen to Vader (ie the Sith never throw anything away, or unlike the Jedi who believe in an afterlife/reincarnation, the Sith are athiests who believe in the here-and-now and use technology to prolong their physical life as long as possible - all of which would further develop the culture of the Jedi and Sith just by altering Grevious' appearance and name).After this Explaining im starting like the idea of maul grievous.
How about Grievous has Red lightsabers?
With some dialogue changing and we have a new cool villain.
-Angel
Don't cross the streams vaderios, "Stay On Target".
Even the so called dead Ewok (Corpsey) moves a bit after being hit and it's never clear if those Ewok groans are coming from his comrade in grief or from the forementioned hit Ewok in pain.
The ground battle is more like hairy children playing war with their Stormtrooper pals than a genuine battle.
This will sound like blasphemy to some but part of the problem is John Williams' music as it was used (sometimes against his intensions) in the theatrical cut.
It's bouncy and upbeat, while we want the rebels and their allies to win no one should ever make out that killing people (which is what war is) is a bouncey upbeat activity. The score can underscore tension and action but not paste a jolly glow over a blood bath.
If you think I'm being OTT try watching any of the other battles in Star Wars with the Endor ground battle music playing over it and then try the opposite.
I'd rather have no music in the ground battle at all than what sounds like at times like a Keystone Cops score.
There are some nice wipe screenshots here :
http://www.goofbutton.com/2009/03/star_wars_wipes_1.html
It might proof a good resource for people wanting to discuss these transitions.
If we all felt that way there wouldn't be any fan-edits and where would that lead us?
Golf?
Mini Golf?
Crazy Golf?
Wii Crazy Golf?
It seems bizarre to me to come onto a discussion board about fan-edits (which don't erase the originals from history) and express concern about changes to these films.
There are restoration projects out there for people who want to preserve previously issued but damaged or degraded versions of the trilogy as it is. The originals exist for those who love the films the way they are, there are milder edits for people who want a few changes here and there so why not make more radical changes if you are of the opinion that Jedi and prequels don't work in their current form?
It won't put me off from contributing ideas but it might put off some more timid people from stretching and expressing their imaginations in this way, which is in my view a shame.
By your command :
Is there or was there ever a logical pattern to the wipes used in Star Wars films?
If there is or was how does it go?
If there isn't should there be one and how could it work?
Do the wipes in the PT match the style of wipes in the OT, if not what are the main offenders and what can be done to make them match?
Do they need to match?
What about both of the Clone Wars series and the Droids and Ewok spin offs?
I thought the wipes are a subject that hasn't really been covered much (I may be wrong so please correct me if I am in error here) so I started this here thread to give us a place to study and debate this unique area of the saga that often goes unnoticed.
"Quickly they're on the move"