Bingowings

JasonN has Dooku as a Jedi in his PT edits, where he is a Sith in the theatrical edition and a Sith still masquerading as a Jedi in the magnoliafan edit.

In an ideal world DVD and Blu-Ray players would all come with a memory card which would record which branch you took on one disc and carry it over onto the next but the plot changes need not be crappy ones.

They could change the mood and flavour of each performance without changing the final outcome (in Dooku's case he still dies after being used by Palpatine to stir up a phony war as a means to take control) until the final episode.

The only problem I can really see is one of disc space, all this branching would (I imagine) take up a lot of memory.

Maybe some of you more experienced disc spinners could come up with a solution.

It might mean having to split the films in half to make room for more branches (which would bring up again the problem of continuity).

As the style evolved perhaps technology would adapt with it making more radical branching possible.

doubleofive posted the germ of what I think is a brilliant idea over on the SAVE LANDO!!! thread :

doubleofive said:

OK, this would be the coolest compromise ever:

Two versions: Lando lives / Lando dies

As the movie starts, choose “Original Ending”, “Revisited Ending”, or “Random Ending”.

The last choice would be the way I would watch it.  That way, you’d be on the edge of your seat wondering if Lando is going to die this time!

This could be a whole new revolution of fan editing (not just Star Wars) and indeed film production altogether.

Imagine a saga where everytime you put the film on key plot points were different.

We all watch certain films over and over again but imagine if everytime there was a surprise thrown in.

For single films it would be anything goes (as long as you had the time and the disc space).

For film series like the Star Wars saga it would require isolating key scenes that could change without messing up the continuity of the rest of the films (in whatever random permitation they may be shown in).

It would be a great way of taking elements from one fan edit and using them as plot variations.

It could also be a way of putting many radical changes into one project.

Does the technology exist to do this?

Could it work beyond just a novelty and become an artform of it’s own?

Beyond editing films could be at some point written with this in mind and with digital projection the idea of throwing in random elements could enter into the production stage of a film and be shown in theatres encouraging people to visit again and again to try and experience the film afresh each time.

I think this thread is as serious as you want it to be.

In some ways it's great that it exists because it's a pressure valve and there have actually been a couple of good ideas pop up on here which might make fun projects in their own right.

I hope some of the ideas that popped up here get carried over onto less single issue threads for further discussion.

No-one expects anyone to change anyone's mind on these pages but it hasn't been a total waste of time.

I can't see the point of a poll.

It won't change a thing and it won't stop the debate.

It will only be representative of the people reading this thread who could be bothered to vote and it would miss out the people who don't care either way.

Surely the fun of fan-editing is that any combination is possible if you want to put the effort in.

Sevb32 said:

I am not against him doing away with Lando if he wants, it is his edit. What I really would love if he would throw us a bone and simply a version where Lando lives, like the canon story goes. Even ANH:R got a purist version and it didn't even have any major story changes as this will. I don't see how it would take that much work to make a version with Lando living in. I'm all for effects improvements and error corrections.

It possibly would take some effort to blend the new elements in with the original ones (cleaned up for a smooth view) but I'm sure someone will do it.

Adywan doesn't have to be that person though (I'd much rather have him push on with TPM:R and let someone else take up the baton).

EyeShotFirst said:having lando die at the end of return of the jedi escaping the death star explosion sounds like a RIP OFF of shadows of the empire on easy mode where Dash Rendar dies escaping skyhooks explosion. Sounds exactly the same.

Or that game/book/comic/album was a recycle of ideas that should have been in ROTJ but George blinked.

Lucas says it was never his intension to kill off Lando but this is the same chap who says that Leia was always meant to be Luke's sister (when clearly she wasn't originally). The line about the Falcon is a bit weird if it was not intended to be foreshadowing.

Xizor is very much like Jejerrod was originally meant to be in early versions of the ROTJ script for example and the Imperial capital was a major location.

Just for those who aren't familiar with earlier versions of Jedi here's the relevant information from Wookieepedia :

According to Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, Jerjerrod was originally a Grand Moff in earlier drafts of Return of the Jedi, and he played a more prominent role as Palpatine's "secret agent," operating behind Vader's back. Jerjerrod is described as a tall, confident technocrat who is Vader's rival. He's tasked with overseeing the transformation of the Green Moon of Had Abbadon into a paradise for the citizens of the overpopulated Imperial capital. While onboard Jerjerrod's shuttle, Vader informs him that he has sensed a Rebel presence on the moon, but Jerjerrod sees it as an insult to his work and refuses to believe it. Afterwards, Princess Leia and two Rebel pilots, flying a stolen Imperial transport, nearly collide with Jerjerrod's shuttle. Later into the movie, Vader and Jerjerrod descend to the Emperor's throne room overlooking a lake of lava, and they both kneel before the Emperor. The Emperor reprimands his apprentice for not capturing Luke—partly by Force-choking him—and asks him to leave. Once Vader departs, the Emperor confers with Jerjerrod, telling him to watch his apprentice closely. He also reveals two facts: that Luke will be replacing Vader, and that the Rebels are launching an attack on the Death Star. Following Luke's surrender, General Veers is ordered to take him to the Executor, but the shuttle captain informs the general that Luke is to be delivered to the Emperor on Had Abbadon. After Veers refuses to do such, the shuttle captain contacts Jerjerrod. But Luke is delivered to Vader, and a furious Jerjerrod storms in and demands to know why Luke was not delivered to the Emperor. Vader grabs the Grand Moff by the throat and kills him.

In the revised rough draft, Wedge Antilles is flying a captured TIE Fighter, but he panics, forcing Leia to go help him. After an Imperial flight controller asks for their clearance code, Jerjerrod's shuttle moves in, and Leia believes that they were going to board. But her captured transport is given clearance. Vader and Jerjerrod converse after this. Vader complains that the Emperor has not been in contact with him; Jerjerrod attempts to avoid an argument, but Vader demands an explanation for his return to the capital. The Grand Moff informs Vader that the Emperor is not pleased with his apprentice's failure in capturing Luke Skywalker and has therefore reassigned him to oversee the construction of the two new Death Stars. Jerjerrod explains to a furious Vader that the Emperor believes Vader still has feelings for his son and that only he (the Emperor) would be able to turn young Skywalker to the dark side. Jerjerrod reveals that the Emperor is aware of the impending Rebel attack, and that Luke, who is on Tatooine at the time, will soon be in the hands of the Empire. Onboard the Executor, Vader asks Admiral Firmus Piett where the Grand Moff is; he replies that Jerjerrod is inside the private communications chamber, but all surveillance equipment has been disabled and his coded transmission is undecipherable. Jerjerrod converses with the Emperor's holographic form, and Palpatine orders him to deliver Luke before him without Vader finding out about it. The Grand Moff notes that the Rebel attack should be ample to distract the Dark Lord from finding his son, allowing the Emperor to turn young Skywalker to the dark side. After Luke is delivered to the Emperor and Vader discovers this, he kills Jerjerrod.

I'm for Lando dying not because he has to redeem himself (though he is the sort of guy who thinks he might) but to prove that sometimes fighting for a good cause comes at a price and victory over evil is it's own reward.

Han could serve the same role but it would be almost impossible to find a way to do it without finding someone who looked just like Harrison Ford circa 1982ish and putting him in a forest.

Lando can die just by adding an explosion at the beginning of a bigger explosion and trimming him out of the rest of the film.

Lando goes from being an also ran character to the biggest hero of the final film so in terms of racial politics (for those who care about such things) he moves up several notches by laying down his life not just for his friends but for the entire galaxy.

It also plants the suggestion that the self proclaimed cynical Solo is actually more atuned to the Force than he thought he was in ANH.

His funny feeling is justified and Lando lives on as an heroic example to all scoundrels.

"Rejoice for those around you who transform into The Force. Mourn them, do not..."

A Bingo head in a vaderios frame :

I wanted to place my mockup of the Threepio god into the story telling scene.

As a sort of spirtual coda, almost as if this event had sent ripples backwards in time through the Force that would turn up in the Ewoks myths (like a repeating meme).

It might be nice to have Threepio point to the sky and see the Death Star through the trees when he talks about Luke destroying the first one so that the Ewoks can place themselves into the story he is telling them.

I imagine Threepio to be an harvest God, an Autumn spirit, like the green man of myth but shifted up a season.

When the leaves turn gold it's time to store food for the coming of the winter.

Forest people don't tend to worship the sun because the tree line hides it, sun and star veneration tends to happen in deserts or in mountain plateau areas where you can get a good view of the sky.

TheBoost said:

InfoDroid said:

Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only way to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip.

What he did was baaaadddd....

Thats where we have to disagree. I think Lando's mistake was trusting the Empire. He was forced to weigh the wellbeing of Cloud City against one man's life (Luke's. If you recall, giving Han to the bounty hunter was never part of the bargain).  You can see why he felt he 'had no choice.'

When he sees the Empire isn't playing square, he sacrifices everything he has and risks his life to try to make up for that one mistake.

I don't think he was selfish at all, and I disagree he has anything further to atone for.

 

I don't think he trusted the Empire at all, he was just buying time.

By the time Vader had changed his mind three times (myths and jokes almost always use the rule of three strikes) he realised there was no way he or anyone in the city would make it out with anything like the freedom they had enjoyed so he changed plans to immediate evacuation and trying to save Han (something he follows through to the very end).

After that he had even more of a reason for joining the Rebels.

It's a shame Nute Gunray wasn't around to teach him the dangers of making deals with Sith Lords.

Sluggo said:

Thanks for that.  The "hiding in a tree" is what made me suspicious, but it now that is shown to be a storage trunk and not a tree, it is all clear.

I don't think it's very clear either way.

Living in Scotland and surrounded by trees if someone said trunk to me I'd think tree, I'm more likely to think of a chest for a big box but then if you said chest to most Star Wars fans they'd possibly think of Carrie Fisher in a metal bra.

DarkFather said:

Problem is, I recently talked about ROTS in the Prequel Radical Redux thread and people want to say how pointless it is because it's so far off. Who cares? let people talk about whatever film they want to as long as it is in the appropriate thread.

To be fair no one put you off of talking about ROTS there, they said that it was pointless expecting answers about ROTS:R.

People talk about ROTS all the time on that thread as it's not just for Ady, it's for any idea of expanding or shaking up the PT.

Naturally people speculate about ROTS:R but nobody (possibly not even Ady) knows for sure how it will go because it's so far off, even ESB:R is many months away.

I don't think Lando had anything to redeem himself for but I think he would think that.

He had the fate of everyone in Cloud City resting on his shoulders and while he personally would have loved to have given Vader the bird and warned Han off he had responsibilities.

If anyone needed to atone for what went on there it's Leia.

Leia who was a leader herself put her emotional attachment to Han before her head.

She knew what the Empire and Vader were capable of more than anyone else (she was personally tortured by Vader and the Empire destroyed her homeworld while she watched on helplessly) but she had too much of her father in her (ergo the choking Lando by proxy scene).

It's interesting that she also chokes Jabba to death too (imagine this gal with Jedi powers).

If Ady's skills grow with each project and he joined forces with some of the other skilled people on here I could see a group who could actually make Episodes VII through to IX becoming a real possibility.

In which case having Leia turn to the dark side is something I could see happening, going by what we have already seen of her.

I had to dig out my copy of the novelisation by James Kahn as I couldn't find anything online I may have been remembering it incorrectly as it refers to a trunk which could be a tree or a box :

"Leia...do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

The question took her totally by surprise. She'd always felt so close to her adopted parents, it was as if they were her real parents. She almost never thought of her real mother-that was like a dream. Yet now Luke's question made her start. Flashes from her infancy assaulted her-distorted visions of running...a beautiful woman...hiding in a trunk. The fragments suddenly threatened to flood her with emotion.

"Yes", she said, pausing to regain her composure. "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young."

"What do you remember? he pressed. "Tell me."

And later...

She moved away from him, to deny his words; at least to give them distance, to let her breathe. Flashes of her mother came again, in this breathing space. Parting embraces, flesh torn from flesh...

Sluggo said:

Bingowings said:

I noticed that the eyes were almost there already and half the heads are buried beyond the nose anyway.

 

 

 And the statues seem to have a thing for wacky hats.

So according to this new plot-line of the Numoidians [sic] having once lived with the Gungans, do the Gungans know it is the Numoidians behind the invasion, or do they have any concept of what the trade federation is?

My initial idea was that the Gungans would not see them as Gods because they are too sophisticated, but perhaps they decline to help the Naboo because these aliens look so like their Gods but when they see what they are really like change sides.

It's an idea that could be adapted in a variety of different ways.

Here's some mockups :

doubleofive said:

OK, this would be the coolest compromise ever:

Two versions: Lando lives / Lando dies

As the movie starts, choose "Original Ending", "Revisited Ending", or "Random Ending".

The last choice would be the way I would watch it.  That way, you'd be on the edge of your seat wondering if Lando is going to die this time!

That is a brilliant idea, take all the edits ever done and stick them on randomly branching discs so you never know what mix you are going to get.

That deserves a thread all on it's own. http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Never-The-Same-Saga-Twice-Thread/topic/10316/

AxiaEuxine said:

Also Im not going to point any fingers with discrepencies between the Ewok films and anything else really. Man, those were awful.

So say we all!

I don't know how it could be done but an alternate take could be to kill Han in the Endor battle (so he never see's the Falcon again) and have Lando live and marry Leia (many, many years later).

That would make Harrison Ford happy, keep the cries of "You killed the only black character" at bay and what's more move him from the B list to the A list characters.

Killing Lando is more doable though.

I'm all for reshuffling the deck with Jedi, after the great build up of the first two films it was a let down and set up the even greater let down to come.

vaderios said:

Tell me stupid but now i notice that you made a nosejob to this statue!

Yes bring more

 

-Angel

I noticed that the eyes were almost there already and half the heads are buried beyond the nose anyway.

AxiaEuxine said:

Davnes007 said:

It's amazing how 9 hours can fly by when you're editing.

The Forest Moon of Endor now has a planet to orbit!

It's a bit rough around the edges, but I think it gets the idea across. :) Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0dGxCrwZzI

 

 At the feathered edge of the galaxy, the Death Star floated in stationary orbit above the green moon of Endor-a moon whose mother planet had long since died of unknown cataclysm and disappeared into unknown realms.

Taken from the third paragraph on the first page of the Return of the Jedi novelization. Nothing to orbit needed.

That's the same novelisation that has Owen being Ben's brother and Padme still alive while Leia is a toddler and hiding her in a tree (both ideas I liked at the time but neither fit the bill now).

Besides the Ewok films show the planet Endor (all be it without rings....I want those rings) so it's anything goes really if people want to change things.

Between you and me (and keep it to yourself) I'd like to see the PT edited to match the ROTJ novelisation too.

The world is big enough for loads of different versions.

"That's two".

I'll try and do some nicer mock-ups later and might even try my hand at penning a few subtitles to see how far we can push this thing.

EyeShotFirst said:

No god no dont kill them. Why is it that everytime a movie full of white folks the only cool brother gotta die. And if you are gonna kill anything kill the annoying max reebo band

Going by the big rubbish explosion over the Sarlacc pit (and no visable means of escape) it looks like the Max Reebo Band don't make it through any version of ROTJ.

DarkFather said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Well, you asked what he's planning on doing.  We don't know.  There really isn't much more we can discuss about it at this point, since we also have no idea what he's planning with the PT in general, much less ROTS.  Hell, we know very little about what he's planning for ROTJ, other than that it's going to be extensive, and the ending battle will be expanded considerably.

Now, if you want to discuss ideas about what Ady could do with his Vader suit for ROTS, by all means go for it, but most of us aren't thinking anywhere near that far ahead and probably won't until at least TPM:Revisited comes out so we know the general direction that Ady wants to take his PT edits.

"Who nows" wasn't an answer.

 You can see my first comment as an invite to discuss what we think needs to be in the new footage.

"Who nows" [sic] sounds more like a question to me too (possibly one of those rare questions that answers itself with itself).

Invitations have been sent so let the party commence (under the circumstances fancy dress seems obligatory)!

I imagine that to make a project like ANH:R would require cleaning up and restoring both the OUT and SE so they matched up when cutting from one to the other.

So a Purist Edit would be almost arrive at the same time anyway (not that it didn't require any extra work) so it would be a waste of labour intensive time not to put them both out.

ChainsawAsh said:

Bingowings said:

fossilised telephone sanitisers.

I have no idea what this means, but it made me laugh so hard I spit my drink out all over my keyboard.  Well done, sir.

Don't panic!

And don't blame me for your keyboard, blame the late Douglas Adams.

Golgafrincham is a red semi-desert planet that is home of the Great Circling Poets of Arium and a species of particularly inspiring lichen. Its people decided it was time to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population, and so the descendants of the Circling Poets concocted a story that their planet would shortly be destroyed in a great catastrophe. (It was apparently under threat from a "mutant star goat"). The useless third of the population (consisting of hairdressers, tired TV producers*, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, telephone sanitizers and the like) were packed into the B-Ark, one of three giant Ark spaceships, and told that everyone else would follow shortly in the other two. The other two thirds of the population, of course, did not follow and "led full, rich and happy lives until they were all suddenly wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone".

The B-Ark was programmed to crash-land on a suitably remote planet on one of the outer spiral arms of the galaxy, which happened to be Earth, and the Golgafrinchan rejects gradually mingled with and usurped the native cavemen**, becoming the ancestors of humanity and thereby altering the course of the great experiment to find the question for the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything, or so Ford Prefect presumes. A lot of them didn't make it through the winter three years prior to Arthur Dent's reunion with Ford Prefect, and the few who remained in the spring said they needed a holiday and set out on a raft. History says they must have survived.

Makes you wonder where Ronald D. Moore get's his ideas.

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

It would be nice to see your animated matte idea here with the failing lights strobing and making the ice go from black/blue to white/blue and back again.

 

Not this time :\

Im already dead from this matte and its still wip.

Someone else can try.

 

-Angel

Paging Davnes007.