Bingowings

TheBoost said:

InfoDroid said:

Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only way to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip.

What he did was baaaadddd....

Thats where we have to disagree. I think Lando's mistake was trusting the Empire. He was forced to weigh the wellbeing of Cloud City against one man's life (Luke's. If you recall, giving Han to the bounty hunter was never part of the bargain).  You can see why he felt he 'had no choice.'

When he sees the Empire isn't playing square, he sacrifices everything he has and risks his life to try to make up for that one mistake.

I don't think he was selfish at all, and I disagree he has anything further to atone for.

 

I don't think he trusted the Empire at all, he was just buying time.

By the time Vader had changed his mind three times (myths and jokes almost always use the rule of three strikes) he realised there was no way he or anyone in the city would make it out with anything like the freedom they had enjoyed so he changed plans to immediate evacuation and trying to save Han (something he follows through to the very end).

After that he had even more of a reason for joining the Rebels.

It's a shame Nute Gunray wasn't around to teach him the dangers of making deals with Sith Lords.

Sluggo said:

Thanks for that.  The "hiding in a tree" is what made me suspicious, but it now that is shown to be a storage trunk and not a tree, it is all clear.

I don't think it's very clear either way.

Living in Scotland and surrounded by trees if someone said trunk to me I'd think tree, I'm more likely to think of a chest for a big box but then if you said chest to most Star Wars fans they'd possibly think of Carrie Fisher in a metal bra.

DarkFather said:

Problem is, I recently talked about ROTS in the Prequel Radical Redux thread and people want to say how pointless it is because it's so far off. Who cares? let people talk about whatever film they want to as long as it is in the appropriate thread.

To be fair no one put you off of talking about ROTS there, they said that it was pointless expecting answers about ROTS:R.

People talk about ROTS all the time on that thread as it's not just for Ady, it's for any idea of expanding or shaking up the PT.

Naturally people speculate about ROTS:R but nobody (possibly not even Ady) knows for sure how it will go because it's so far off, even ESB:R is many months away.

I don't think Lando had anything to redeem himself for but I think he would think that.

He had the fate of everyone in Cloud City resting on his shoulders and while he personally would have loved to have given Vader the bird and warned Han off he had responsibilities.

If anyone needed to atone for what went on there it's Leia.

Leia who was a leader herself put her emotional attachment to Han before her head.

She knew what the Empire and Vader were capable of more than anyone else (she was personally tortured by Vader and the Empire destroyed her homeworld while she watched on helplessly) but she had too much of her father in her (ergo the choking Lando by proxy scene).

It's interesting that she also chokes Jabba to death too (imagine this gal with Jedi powers).

If Ady's skills grow with each project and he joined forces with some of the other skilled people on here I could see a group who could actually make Episodes VII through to IX becoming a real possibility.

In which case having Leia turn to the dark side is something I could see happening, going by what we have already seen of her.

I had to dig out my copy of the novelisation by James Kahn as I couldn't find anything online I may have been remembering it incorrectly as it refers to a trunk which could be a tree or a box :

"Leia...do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

The question took her totally by surprise. She'd always felt so close to her adopted parents, it was as if they were her real parents. She almost never thought of her real mother-that was like a dream. Yet now Luke's question made her start. Flashes from her infancy assaulted her-distorted visions of running...a beautiful woman...hiding in a trunk. The fragments suddenly threatened to flood her with emotion.

"Yes", she said, pausing to regain her composure. "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young."

"What do you remember? he pressed. "Tell me."

And later...

She moved away from him, to deny his words; at least to give them distance, to let her breathe. Flashes of her mother came again, in this breathing space. Parting embraces, flesh torn from flesh...

Sluggo said:

Bingowings said:

I noticed that the eyes were almost there already and half the heads are buried beyond the nose anyway.

 

 

 And the statues seem to have a thing for wacky hats.

So according to this new plot-line of the Numoidians [sic] having once lived with the Gungans, do the Gungans know it is the Numoidians behind the invasion, or do they have any concept of what the trade federation is?

My initial idea was that the Gungans would not see them as Gods because they are too sophisticated, but perhaps they decline to help the Naboo because these aliens look so like their Gods but when they see what they are really like change sides.

It's an idea that could be adapted in a variety of different ways.

Here's some mockups :

doubleofive said:

OK, this would be the coolest compromise ever:

Two versions: Lando lives / Lando dies

As the movie starts, choose "Original Ending", "Revisited Ending", or "Random Ending".

The last choice would be the way I would watch it.  That way, you'd be on the edge of your seat wondering if Lando is going to die this time!

That is a brilliant idea, take all the edits ever done and stick them on randomly branching discs so you never know what mix you are going to get.

That deserves a thread all on it's own. http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Never-The-Same-Saga-Twice-Thread/topic/10316/

AxiaEuxine said:

Also Im not going to point any fingers with discrepencies between the Ewok films and anything else really. Man, those were awful.

So say we all!

I don't know how it could be done but an alternate take could be to kill Han in the Endor battle (so he never see's the Falcon again) and have Lando live and marry Leia (many, many years later).

That would make Harrison Ford happy, keep the cries of "You killed the only black character" at bay and what's more move him from the B list to the A list characters.

Killing Lando is more doable though.

I'm all for reshuffling the deck with Jedi, after the great build up of the first two films it was a let down and set up the even greater let down to come.

vaderios said:

Tell me stupid but now i notice that you made a nosejob to this statue!

Yes bring more

 

-Angel

I noticed that the eyes were almost there already and half the heads are buried beyond the nose anyway.

AxiaEuxine said:

Davnes007 said:

It's amazing how 9 hours can fly by when you're editing.

The Forest Moon of Endor now has a planet to orbit!

It's a bit rough around the edges, but I think it gets the idea across. :) Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0dGxCrwZzI

 

 At the feathered edge of the galaxy, the Death Star floated in stationary orbit above the green moon of Endor-a moon whose mother planet had long since died of unknown cataclysm and disappeared into unknown realms.

Taken from the third paragraph on the first page of the Return of the Jedi novelization. Nothing to orbit needed.

That's the same novelisation that has Owen being Ben's brother and Padme still alive while Leia is a toddler and hiding her in a tree (both ideas I liked at the time but neither fit the bill now).

Besides the Ewok films show the planet Endor (all be it without rings....I want those rings) so it's anything goes really if people want to change things.

Between you and me (and keep it to yourself) I'd like to see the PT edited to match the ROTJ novelisation too.

The world is big enough for loads of different versions.

"That's two".

I'll try and do some nicer mock-ups later and might even try my hand at penning a few subtitles to see how far we can push this thing.

EyeShotFirst said:

No god no dont kill them. Why is it that everytime a movie full of white folks the only cool brother gotta die. And if you are gonna kill anything kill the annoying max reebo band

Going by the big rubbish explosion over the Sarlacc pit (and no visable means of escape) it looks like the Max Reebo Band don't make it through any version of ROTJ.

DarkFather said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Well, you asked what he's planning on doing.  We don't know.  There really isn't much more we can discuss about it at this point, since we also have no idea what he's planning with the PT in general, much less ROTS.  Hell, we know very little about what he's planning for ROTJ, other than that it's going to be extensive, and the ending battle will be expanded considerably.

Now, if you want to discuss ideas about what Ady could do with his Vader suit for ROTS, by all means go for it, but most of us aren't thinking anywhere near that far ahead and probably won't until at least TPM:Revisited comes out so we know the general direction that Ady wants to take his PT edits.

"Who nows" wasn't an answer.

 You can see my first comment as an invite to discuss what we think needs to be in the new footage.

"Who nows" [sic] sounds more like a question to me too (possibly one of those rare questions that answers itself with itself).

Invitations have been sent so let the party commence (under the circumstances fancy dress seems obligatory)!

I imagine that to make a project like ANH:R would require cleaning up and restoring both the OUT and SE so they matched up when cutting from one to the other.

So a Purist Edit would be almost arrive at the same time anyway (not that it didn't require any extra work) so it would be a waste of labour intensive time not to put them both out.

ChainsawAsh said:

Bingowings said:

fossilised telephone sanitisers.

I have no idea what this means, but it made me laugh so hard I spit my drink out all over my keyboard.  Well done, sir.

Don't panic!

And don't blame me for your keyboard, blame the late Douglas Adams.

Golgafrincham is a red semi-desert planet that is home of the Great Circling Poets of Arium and a species of particularly inspiring lichen. Its people decided it was time to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population, and so the descendants of the Circling Poets concocted a story that their planet would shortly be destroyed in a great catastrophe. (It was apparently under threat from a "mutant star goat"). The useless third of the population (consisting of hairdressers, tired TV producers*, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, telephone sanitizers and the like) were packed into the B-Ark, one of three giant Ark spaceships, and told that everyone else would follow shortly in the other two. The other two thirds of the population, of course, did not follow and "led full, rich and happy lives until they were all suddenly wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone".

The B-Ark was programmed to crash-land on a suitably remote planet on one of the outer spiral arms of the galaxy, which happened to be Earth, and the Golgafrinchan rejects gradually mingled with and usurped the native cavemen**, becoming the ancestors of humanity and thereby altering the course of the great experiment to find the question for the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything, or so Ford Prefect presumes. A lot of them didn't make it through the winter three years prior to Arthur Dent's reunion with Ford Prefect, and the few who remained in the spring said they needed a holiday and set out on a raft. History says they must have survived.

Makes you wonder where Ronald D. Moore get's his ideas.

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

It would be nice to see your animated matte idea here with the failing lights strobing and making the ice go from black/blue to white/blue and back again.

 

Not this time :\

Im already dead from this matte and its still wip.

Someone else can try.

 

-Angel

Paging Davnes007.

vaderios said:

Well it seems here is the most aproporiate place.

Now the light comes from back of the open hangar door

 

-Angel

It would be nice to see your animated matte idea here with the failing lights strobing and making the ice go from black/blue to white/blue and back again.

There's no stopping other editors from making a ROTJ:R Purist Edition (that is taking some elements from it but keeping the original story largely intact).

Just as there is nothing stopping people from making ANH:R or ESB:R Almost Completely Remade Editions (just as long as credit due is given).

We are all playing with the work of the original crews of these films so there is nothing stopping us from reworking each others work too.

I'm looking forward to a real shake up for ROTJ as in my view it's more in need of one than even TPM but the originals aren't going anywhere so there is no need to be precious about any edit.

I think we will all be thinking that far ahead all the way up to seeing ROTS:R but I doubt if we will get much in the way of answers for a long long time.

This isn't an exclusively Ady centred thread anyway.

It would be fun to come up with ideas of what could be done in a Vader suit so anyone with balls to make one and film it (including Ady) could have a look and see what appeals to them.

That's a game we can all enjoy but we are still putting up ideas for ESB:R which won't appear for another year so getting even concrete rumours about ROTS:R is a bit like mining for fossilised telephone sanitisers.

I doubt that George would go out of his way to target one actor, suffering from and doing a lot to raise money into findiing a cure for Prostate Cancer, just because of some yet to be proved theory that he was leaking plot details to the press.

That would be like saying Anthony Daniels and Kenny Baker don't get along.

Perhaps if George looked under the sofa cushions of his tiny $100,000,000 ranch he might find a bit of lose change he could send big Dave.

I was thinking more along these lines (the land masses and oceans spoil the gas giant look) :

InfoDroid said:

I like that...  :D

It would be hard though to get all of that exposition into the movie without either having a prologue which explains it or an entire crawl dedicated just to that.

It wouldn't have to be all explained a few hints in the crawl, a few comments in subtitles and a few visual cues like adjusting the Easter Island head things should be enough.

The rest could be filled in by the imagination of the audience.

Remember how much more fun the Clone Wars and Darth Vader's Jedi Purge looked when it was just a few words rolling around in your head?

The same could be going on here.

Lucas made a rich backstory in very broad strokes for the OT which added to the texture of the rather simple story of ANH.

When he did the prequels (basically fleshing out that back story) he should have replaced it with a backstory of it's own.

The few attempts aren't strong enough (we haven't a clue why the Sith want their revenge for example).

The only really interesting bauble in my view was the Darth Plagueis thing.

Giving Dooku a backstory and adding a backstory to the Naboo crisis would go someway to making the PT as enjoyable as the OT.

InfoDroid said:

BingoWings,

That's an interesting idea about the Neimoidians being worshipped as gods...has a Stargate feel to it.  It could work by using subtitles for Neimoidians and Gungans, but it would be tricky.  How can that be developed and tied into the reason they're invading?

Alternate history time.

A longer time ago in a galaxy far far away....

The planet Naboo was home to the Gungans, a relatively primitive race.

The Neimoidian Federation was at war with humans who were expanding into their sphere of influence.

The Neimodians colonised the planet as a staging post during their war, the Gungans saw their advanced technology and believed them to be gods.

Eventually the humans drove the Neimodians off the planet and claiming it for themselves.

The Naboo and the Neimoidians later became members of the Republic but the defeat entered into the history books of the Neimodians and the resentment remained (it became a cultural yearning to reclaim the world even thousands of years later, there are plenty of real world examples).

The Gungans developed their own advanced culture along side but seperate from the Naboo, partially enhanced by studying technology left behind by their Gods.

Initially they resented the Naboo for driving their Gods away but thousands of years later the reasons for their resentment had largely been forgotten and developed more of a cultural flavour.

The Gungan religion remained but when the Neimodians returned the Gungans were too sophisticated a race to see them as their Gods of old.

Palpatine played on these ancient feuds to spark one side of his phony war.

If Nute Gunray could reclaim Naboo legally he would return home a strong leader who has returned a long lost province.

The Republic would be thrown into chaos because one member race has attacked another and the Senate has done very little to nothing to stop it.

The Trade Federation could even use the Gungans to legitimise their invasion, claiming falsely that they are a force of liberation returning the planet to it's indigenous people (which would give Jar-Jar more of a reason to be in the story).

Davnes you are definatly on a roll at the moment lovely stuff.

I still think a blue/green ringed gas giant like Uranus or Neptune would be a better contrast with Yavin (and less like Saturn which is what usually springs to mind when people think of ringed planets) but that's just my personal preference.

Keep up the good work.