Bingowings

Davnes007 said:

Bingowings said:

EyeShotFirst said:

I actually have a decent idea (if it hasnt been stated yet) the shot could open outside bens house and have lukes xwing sitting outside it. or have the ship flying over tattoined and landing by bens house. Of course if you read the first 5 pages of Shadows of the empire the whole gang is at ben's house. Hmmm of course we could say fuggit and let luke be alone. Of course that will be a bitch to pull of. We would have to use existing scenes. could we even add obi wan to the shot telling him about how vader is his father. of coursse we need to see yoda die.

Ideas like yours have been discussed before (scroll back to page 20) here was my take:

 

I just put together an edit of what you might have in mind. The video spans the first hour of the movie (but I cut alot out of the footage just for the sake of time, etc). You might even get a few chuckles out of it. Ayway, just have fun watching ROTJ like you've never seen it before.

Please note: This is probably one of the weirdest looking edits ever made, but I think it sort of gets the point across, so please put aside any "it looks rushed" thoughts :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erIchJPPlyw

More great work there, I take it you have seen SomethingStarWarsRelated's take starting here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJOLKUR-420&feature=channel_page

My take on the scene in Ben's hut take's place before the droids set out for Jabba's palace (he records his message for Jabba there and if it can be done constructs his sabre and places both in R2) which is why Threepio is outside the hut in my mockup.

But SSWR's take has Chewie being delivered before all of that and removes Threepio from that scene.

When I did my photoshop mockups I did a large image of the hut (not the Hutt) interior minus all the characters bar R2 (I kept him in to scale the other characters into the frame). My thinking being that the background would be out of focus most of the time in relation to the characters.

Perhaps someone with the HD version of ANH could do a higher rez version?

There have been efforts to try and clean up the footage but there is only so much that can be done with the source material in the state it's in.

EyeShotFirst said:

Thats not an impossible thing. If their is any way of having boba put up a good fight then that is even better. Empire Strikes Back though he didnt need to fight, You could tell by his theme music and his quietness that he was no man to mess with. Of course accourding to EU novels and comics. Boba is not a bad guy. He just does his job and that job is making money. He is in kahoots with vader though. But hey Han was an imperial officer in the EU. And luke wanted to go to the Imperial Academy along with Biggs (why did they not talk about this more. He even contradicted wanting to go to the academy when he said he had no love for the empire) maybe going to the academy was the only way of getting out of tattooine. That would make sense. It would be like joining the military if your stuck in say cookeville tennessee like I am LOL though I dont plan on joining the military. But think about it you would probably lead a successful life joining the imperial academy. Joining the rebellion well the only benefits from it is your chances of dying increase. In the empire all you have to do is avoid pissing off vader.

You really, really need to go back a bit (you sound like the sort of guy who would get a kick out reading the ideas that have been posted before, here and on the Fan-O-Matic/Starkiller thread).

Going back here might help : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-and-ROTJ-Wishlist/topic/8826/page/17/

Here is the combined efforts of vaderios and myself applied to the problem, it would be great to see what you come up with.

Bingowings said:

vaderios said:

As Bingowings said: Some storyboard of the possibly Mr Boba's insert to Rebellion's fate.

First Shot: A ship is approaching fast a fleet (rebels) that is gathering/ or some ships whatever. It enters into a hangar.

Second Shot. We see it landing. Dark hangar. The door is open and some light fills the place. We see someone ( boba) walks down of the ship and meet some ppl.

Third shot. Behind of boba) to walk.

Fourth Shot: We see some rebels ( in the pic are random) They talk

Fifth shot: Mr B gives the plans to the rebels. A payment agreement.

Final Shot: Out of the hangar camera.We see B's ship take off and Fly to the camera.

-Angel

Here's my go, now the nod that Fett gives Boussh and the line, "I hope it's worth the price we paid for it" have different meanings.

The Rebels hire Fett to find the location and Fett get's it straight out of the Sith Lord's mouth (two paychecks for one job just like in ESB).

 

As you know I'm really for the two Death Star scenerio as it was in the original script treatment and it makes Jedi less like ANH.

I can't see how having two of the things  is any more daft than having one of them and if Ady doesn't do it I'm sure someone else will.

But as I said you don't need that approach to get around Luke getting out in time, you just have him leave earlier.

EyeShotFirst, it makes perfect sense if you read the relavent section of the ESB/ROTJ thread.

Palpatine lets the Rebels know about the Death Star being built around the forest moon so he can trap the fleet and destroy them with a second Death Star they don't know about (where Luke and Vader fight).

The fun starts on this page (http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-and-ROTJ-Wishlist/post/345406/#post345406)

You will find yourself going over old ground if you don't back track a bit and the whole thread is a good read, full of great ideas.

EyeShotFirst said:

Could yoda's death be shorter. It seemed like he was milking it. I mean he dies then he goes Luke luke their........is...another...........skywa...ker... I cant help but think god whould ya hurry up and die.

We are singing off the same hymn sheet here I said something similar a number of pages back.

Sluggo said:

I don't like the idea of a lightsaber being built with the Force.  It sounds too PT/EU to me.  I'd bet it would make Obi-wan very grumpy.

Oh, for those of you that haven't seen Jambe Davdar's Returning to Jedi, he has a clip of the original prop lightsaber that Luke filmed but wasn't included in the final cut.

 

It was the way he does it in the Radio version of ROTJ (he tries to do it by hand but none of the pieces come together then he uses the Force and they fit perfectly), so it's not exactly out there, also it would explain why Vader finds it remarkable, otherwise it makes being a Jedi sound like having the power to put up flat packed furniture that doesn't wobble, using all the screws.

Luke is a Jedi knight not an Ikea knight ;-)

It would be great if someone could make a Luke ROTJ sabre that can come to pieces so it could be stop motioned coming apart and reversed so it looked like it was being constructed using the Force.

I wonder if any of the sabre makers out there could construct such a thing.

AuggieBenDoggie said:

 

"Adywan" said:

I always had an idea almost straight after seeing ROTJ in 1983 that Lando should have died. i had even planned it and wrote it down and i still have the outline i wrote. it took away the rehash of ANH feeling i had away from it. One thing i couldn't understand is why the hell would the emperor not protect the main core from torpedoes after what happened to the original DS? That just didn't make sense and still doesn't. My original outline was what if they reached the core and the torpedoes had no impact at all on the shielding. what do they do? the only ship large enough to do any sort of damage was the falcon. i had planned to have lando ram the core as he screams "yeeehaa" and it is wedges X-wing that you see just escaping the death star just before it explodes. But bloody independence day went and did it. i still love that idea but can i still do it now that film came out? i don't know. i may have to find an alternative ending somehow. now after the SE came out and the PT there was an extra part i wanted to see after the DS explodes which ties in all the celebrations around the galaxy. that, i am keeping secret for now.

 

 

Why the emperor didn't protect the main core from torpedos? He had the shield generator, and the imperial fleet was to keep the rebels trapped while the death star picked off the battle ships one by one. Something that wasn't done in ANH.  In the end, the emperor was over confident, just as Luke told him. He didn't expect/accept the strike team on Endor to be able to destroy the shield generator.

Having Lando commit suicide by chashing into the core screaming yeeehaa is pretty funny.  It would also create a few problems with Lukes escape, as he wouldn't be able to escape. He wouldn't be able to see his fathers face before he dies. He would also die almost as instantly as Lando would if the death star exploded as fast as the first one did. The rebel fleet might not get the chance to get far enough away either. I think the all ready established ending works best, and has worked for me ever since I first watched it.

The problem of Luke's escape would be solved by the two Death Star scenerio (see the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread for details), in short Luke is on another Death Star which is destroyed by the Executor.

Without it the problem could be solved by altering the timing, the station could be shaken by bombardment from Rebel capital ships once the shield is down and he could be escape just as the station is about to explode (like Wedge).

ChainsawAsh said:

Movie starts with Vader arriving, then Luke on Dagobah, then a Jabba scene, then Luke arrives on Tatooine and that's where the above scene would come.

I know what you mean Ash I meant as far as Luke is concerned.

Yoda dies after Luke finishes his train near the beginning of the film (some people have or are working on variations based on the same idea but all of them build on that daring leap of reordering).

Sluggo said:

That would be a pain in the butt to pull off.

 

And totally cool.

 

Since it removes Ben and Luke from Dagobah, would Luke still travel to Dagobah to complete his training with Yoda?

In most of fan-o-matic inspired scenerios the film starts with Luke on Dagobah as he's been there finishing his training since ESB.

What if the impact that knocked out the communications disk also knocked out the quad laser, that way it's not a suicide mission (well no more than usual) or down to extra shielding on the reactor, but down to not having enough firepower once the Falcon gets there.

The ship could get really badly shaved and covered in dings (meaning the cockpit is sealed in to stop fire from spreading).

That would just leave the guys in the cockpit to volunteer to ram the reactor.

It would add to the tension because the Falcon might not even make it to the reactor before blowing.

Something like this (only better) :

EyeShotFirst said:

I actually have a decent idea (if it hasnt been stated yet) the shot could open outside bens house and have lukes xwing sitting outside it. or have the ship flying over tattoined and landing by bens house. Of course if you read the first 5 pages of Shadows of the empire the whole gang is at ben's house. Hmmm of course we could say fuggit and let luke be alone. Of course that will be a bitch to pull of. We would have to use existing scenes. could we even add obi wan to the shot telling him about how vader is his father. of coursse we need to see yoda die.

Ideas like yours have been discussed before (scroll back to page 20) here was my take:

AxiaEuxine said:

Okay so this is my coolest Axia Edition post yet, in my opinion. What if Vader opened up Luke's Saber to check out just how he had made his saber?

Not recomended while the saber is on but Vader is a bad-ass.

That looks so good and would work even better if we could get the Ben's hut bit done. Could it the lightsabre construction scene be done with stop motion, so he constructs the whole thing via telekinesis underlining just how much skill is needed to make one?

Welcome to the New Republic of Calrissiania :-)

I used that photo but getting it to look like a statue wasn't easy so I pinched from several statues to produce this Bling it might look better at Cloud City:

doubleofive said:

And a staute of Billy Dee Williams in any form is solid awesome.

Well I don't know if it's art...

What about a Biggs is Lando and survives the attack on the Death Star and goes off to take over Cloud City branch?

Taking from the SAVE LANDO!!!! thread (as this isn't an exclusively Adywan thread I've copied these contributions over so they may be worked on here as contributors see fit.

On killing Han instead (or as well):

Bingowings said:

I don't know how it could be done but an alternate take could be to kill Han in the Endor battle (so he never see's the Falcon again) and have Lando live and marry Leia (many, many years later).

That would make Harrison Ford happy, keep the cries of "You killed the only black character" at bay and what's more move him from the B list to the A list characters.

Killing Lando is more doable though....

DarkFather said:

Lando sacrificing himself, I believe, would be superfluous. As Bingowings already mentioned, his redemption was putting himself on the line for months in order to save Han from Jabba. He was hanging around as a mole waiting to sabotage in one of the murkiest locations in the galaxy.

Only Han dying in the carbonite, which he obviously survived, would warrant Lando sacrificing himself at the Battle of Endor. I doubt Lando has much guilt left in his mind now that Han is rescued in no small part thanks to him.

That's why I vote that if we are going to have any of the heroes die in the final clash between Rebellion and Empire, it is better to have it be Han. To have rescued the rogue-turned-hero only to have him die soon afterward would add an extra sense of tragedy to the death.

In essence, they would have undertook a long, dangerous rescue mission just to have a few more precious days with their dear friend.

It's poetic.

 InfoDroid said:

Han could be killed when the charges blow at the bunker.  He could be swept up in the explosion that seems to level several city blocks.

doubleofive said:

Not bad, but if HAN died we'd REALLY need some reaction shots.

DarkFather said:

He has a funny feeling like he's never going to see her again.

And... if we take away the ropes holding Han's feet to the sand cruiser over the Sarlaac Pit... it could also act as a hint to Han being attuned to the Force.

Hmm. I still say Han dies, though. I'll try to pick a moment in the film when this can be done later. Expect greatness.

 

As for reaction shots, it could be something subtle. As when Luke is looking on at the ghosts, alter his expression slightly to reflect an underlying sadness. When Leia comes up behind him to beckon him over to the celebration, the alterations would need to be a lot more substantial... though at the same time not too hard to pull off: take away the broad smile, and replace it with a weaker smile to Luke that only lasts for a brief moment, while making it clear that she has tears running down her face.

Also, we could put a pire next to Anakin's for Han. It doesn't necessarily have to be a tradition exclusively for Jedi, but a tradition in honor of the greatest of heroes.

InfoDroid said:

He could fall into the Sarlaac with Boba.  ;)

On killing off charchters other than Lando or Han :

BarBar Jinkx said:

I say kill em' all off, & let the emperor win!  >;-)

focuspuller said:

 What are you going to do next, kill Wedge?

BarBar Jinkx said:

Don't give him any ideas I love wedge!

EyeShotFirst said:

If you are gonna kill someone. go by the infinities approach and kill luke. I wouldnt mind seeing leia die. of course How in the fuck is it even possible to kill someone off of their importance. It will be a bitch and I garuntee that it will be even more of a bitch to blow up the 2nd death star without lando.

ben_danger said:

or maybe Luke dies, and Vader survives. at endor he gives Leia Luke's sabre before he self immolates on a pyre with his son.

Dangerous Incorporated said:

Kill Jar Jar. Dont kill Lando!!

The last one would be difficult to do in Jedi but not impossible.

And finally for changes not relating to character deaths :

TheoOdo said:

I always sort of guessed it would be something smaller that would still disregard the EU. Like, say, Leia not being Luke's sister?

I dunno', that's always seemed like the obvious choice to me.

JasonN has Dooku as a Jedi in his PT edits, where he is a Sith in the theatrical edition and a Sith still masquerading as a Jedi in the magnoliafan edit.

In an ideal world DVD and Blu-Ray players would all come with a memory card which would record which branch you took on one disc and carry it over onto the next but the plot changes need not be crappy ones.

They could change the mood and flavour of each performance without changing the final outcome (in Dooku's case he still dies after being used by Palpatine to stir up a phony war as a means to take control) until the final episode.

The only problem I can really see is one of disc space, all this branching would (I imagine) take up a lot of memory.

Maybe some of you more experienced disc spinners could come up with a solution.

It might mean having to split the films in half to make room for more branches (which would bring up again the problem of continuity).

As the style evolved perhaps technology would adapt with it making more radical branching possible.

doubleofive posted the germ of what I think is a brilliant idea over on the SAVE LANDO!!! thread :

doubleofive said:

OK, this would be the coolest compromise ever:

Two versions: Lando lives / Lando dies

As the movie starts, choose “Original Ending”, “Revisited Ending”, or “Random Ending”.

The last choice would be the way I would watch it.  That way, you’d be on the edge of your seat wondering if Lando is going to die this time!

This could be a whole new revolution of fan editing (not just Star Wars) and indeed film production altogether.

Imagine a saga where everytime you put the film on key plot points were different.

We all watch certain films over and over again but imagine if everytime there was a surprise thrown in.

For single films it would be anything goes (as long as you had the time and the disc space).

For film series like the Star Wars saga it would require isolating key scenes that could change without messing up the continuity of the rest of the films (in whatever random permitation they may be shown in).

It would be a great way of taking elements from one fan edit and using them as plot variations.

It could also be a way of putting many radical changes into one project.

Does the technology exist to do this?

Could it work beyond just a novelty and become an artform of it’s own?

Beyond editing films could be at some point written with this in mind and with digital projection the idea of throwing in random elements could enter into the production stage of a film and be shown in theatres encouraging people to visit again and again to try and experience the film afresh each time.

I think this thread is as serious as you want it to be.

In some ways it's great that it exists because it's a pressure valve and there have actually been a couple of good ideas pop up on here which might make fun projects in their own right.

I hope some of the ideas that popped up here get carried over onto less single issue threads for further discussion.

No-one expects anyone to change anyone's mind on these pages but it hasn't been a total waste of time.

I can't see the point of a poll.

It won't change a thing and it won't stop the debate.

It will only be representative of the people reading this thread who could be bothered to vote and it would miss out the people who don't care either way.

Surely the fun of fan-editing is that any combination is possible if you want to put the effort in.

Sevb32 said:

I am not against him doing away with Lando if he wants, it is his edit. What I really would love if he would throw us a bone and simply a version where Lando lives, like the canon story goes. Even ANH:R got a purist version and it didn't even have any major story changes as this will. I don't see how it would take that much work to make a version with Lando living in. I'm all for effects improvements and error corrections.

It possibly would take some effort to blend the new elements in with the original ones (cleaned up for a smooth view) but I'm sure someone will do it.

Adywan doesn't have to be that person though (I'd much rather have him push on with TPM:R and let someone else take up the baton).

EyeShotFirst said:having lando die at the end of return of the jedi escaping the death star explosion sounds like a RIP OFF of shadows of the empire on easy mode where Dash Rendar dies escaping skyhooks explosion. Sounds exactly the same.

Or that game/book/comic/album was a recycle of ideas that should have been in ROTJ but George blinked.

Lucas says it was never his intension to kill off Lando but this is the same chap who says that Leia was always meant to be Luke's sister (when clearly she wasn't originally). The line about the Falcon is a bit weird if it was not intended to be foreshadowing.

Xizor is very much like Jejerrod was originally meant to be in early versions of the ROTJ script for example and the Imperial capital was a major location.

Just for those who aren't familiar with earlier versions of Jedi here's the relevant information from Wookieepedia :

According to Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, Jerjerrod was originally a Grand Moff in earlier drafts of Return of the Jedi, and he played a more prominent role as Palpatine's "secret agent," operating behind Vader's back. Jerjerrod is described as a tall, confident technocrat who is Vader's rival. He's tasked with overseeing the transformation of the Green Moon of Had Abbadon into a paradise for the citizens of the overpopulated Imperial capital. While onboard Jerjerrod's shuttle, Vader informs him that he has sensed a Rebel presence on the moon, but Jerjerrod sees it as an insult to his work and refuses to believe it. Afterwards, Princess Leia and two Rebel pilots, flying a stolen Imperial transport, nearly collide with Jerjerrod's shuttle. Later into the movie, Vader and Jerjerrod descend to the Emperor's throne room overlooking a lake of lava, and they both kneel before the Emperor. The Emperor reprimands his apprentice for not capturing Luke—partly by Force-choking him—and asks him to leave. Once Vader departs, the Emperor confers with Jerjerrod, telling him to watch his apprentice closely. He also reveals two facts: that Luke will be replacing Vader, and that the Rebels are launching an attack on the Death Star. Following Luke's surrender, General Veers is ordered to take him to the Executor, but the shuttle captain informs the general that Luke is to be delivered to the Emperor on Had Abbadon. After Veers refuses to do such, the shuttle captain contacts Jerjerrod. But Luke is delivered to Vader, and a furious Jerjerrod storms in and demands to know why Luke was not delivered to the Emperor. Vader grabs the Grand Moff by the throat and kills him.

In the revised rough draft, Wedge Antilles is flying a captured TIE Fighter, but he panics, forcing Leia to go help him. After an Imperial flight controller asks for their clearance code, Jerjerrod's shuttle moves in, and Leia believes that they were going to board. But her captured transport is given clearance. Vader and Jerjerrod converse after this. Vader complains that the Emperor has not been in contact with him; Jerjerrod attempts to avoid an argument, but Vader demands an explanation for his return to the capital. The Grand Moff informs Vader that the Emperor is not pleased with his apprentice's failure in capturing Luke Skywalker and has therefore reassigned him to oversee the construction of the two new Death Stars. Jerjerrod explains to a furious Vader that the Emperor believes Vader still has feelings for his son and that only he (the Emperor) would be able to turn young Skywalker to the dark side. Jerjerrod reveals that the Emperor is aware of the impending Rebel attack, and that Luke, who is on Tatooine at the time, will soon be in the hands of the Empire. Onboard the Executor, Vader asks Admiral Firmus Piett where the Grand Moff is; he replies that Jerjerrod is inside the private communications chamber, but all surveillance equipment has been disabled and his coded transmission is undecipherable. Jerjerrod converses with the Emperor's holographic form, and Palpatine orders him to deliver Luke before him without Vader finding out about it. The Grand Moff notes that the Rebel attack should be ample to distract the Dark Lord from finding his son, allowing the Emperor to turn young Skywalker to the dark side. After Luke is delivered to the Emperor and Vader discovers this, he kills Jerjerrod.

I'm for Lando dying not because he has to redeem himself (though he is the sort of guy who thinks he might) but to prove that sometimes fighting for a good cause comes at a price and victory over evil is it's own reward.

Han could serve the same role but it would be almost impossible to find a way to do it without finding someone who looked just like Harrison Ford circa 1982ish and putting him in a forest.

Lando can die just by adding an explosion at the beginning of a bigger explosion and trimming him out of the rest of the film.

Lando goes from being an also ran character to the biggest hero of the final film so in terms of racial politics (for those who care about such things) he moves up several notches by laying down his life not just for his friends but for the entire galaxy.

It also plants the suggestion that the self proclaimed cynical Solo is actually more atuned to the Force than he thought he was in ANH.

His funny feeling is justified and Lando lives on as an heroic example to all scoundrels.

"Rejoice for those around you who transform into The Force. Mourn them, do not..."

A Bingo head in a vaderios frame :

I wanted to place my mockup of the Threepio god into the story telling scene.

As a sort of spirtual coda, almost as if this event had sent ripples backwards in time through the Force that would turn up in the Ewoks myths (like a repeating meme).

It might be nice to have Threepio point to the sky and see the Death Star through the trees when he talks about Luke destroying the first one so that the Ewoks can place themselves into the story he is telling them.

I imagine Threepio to be an harvest God, an Autumn spirit, like the green man of myth but shifted up a season.

When the leaves turn gold it's time to store food for the coming of the winter.

Forest people don't tend to worship the sun because the tree line hides it, sun and star veneration tends to happen in deserts or in mountain plateau areas where you can get a good view of the sky.