Bingowings

It was from the final set of P&S PAL OUT VHS sets.

I've got the Executor tin set with prints of that art set inside.

Sluggo said:

Bingowings said:

ben_danger said:

despite all the good arguments made for having fett, i do feel it would be a distracting subplot, and kind of unnecessary, and could be viewed as a fan service (like fett in AOTC). i would only include him if you find that the restructured ROTJ creates a gap that he could fill. i wouldnt go making a gap to put him in.

As you say it's an idea and like some ideas on here it will appeal to some people and not to others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and nobody has cooked it yet.

Personally I'd like to see the idea made and if it becomes in my power to do so and nobody else does it I'll do it myself so people can put it in or leave it out or do it differently at their own discretion.

Fett in AOTC is a fan service when he isn't being a bounty hunter (I'm fine with him being hired to kill Padme, the clone template buisness was the fan service as was little boy Boba).

 

 

 He was definitely a fan service in ANH.

I'd totally watch an alternate version of Jedi (at least once) where Fett sells the plans to the rebels.  That's the fun of these ideas.  I like some ideas, don't others and other folks like what they like.

It really is the double edge sword of the Special Editions.  Once Lucas changed the films, it totally blew any idea about what is canon and what is not away, if you take my meaning.  Once he opened the films for changes, all hell hath broken loose.  Totally agravating on one hand and kind of fun on the other.

On the one hand it would have be great to see six (or nine) really good Star Wars films right off the bat but on the other hand Lucas has encouraged (by accident) a whole unstoppable wave of talent and creative thinking made possible in no small way by the technology his companies helped develop, which are now available for a large number of people to buy.

ben_danger said:

despite all the good arguments made for having fett, i do feel it would be a distracting subplot, and kind of unnecessary, and could be viewed as a fan service (like fett in AOTC). i would only include him if you find that the restructured ROTJ creates a gap that he could fill. i wouldnt go making a gap to put him in.

As you say it's an idea and like some ideas on here it will appeal to some people and not to others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and nobody has cooked it yet.

Personally I'd like to see the idea made and if it becomes in my power to do so and nobody else does it I'll do it myself so people can put it in or leave it out or do it differently at their own discretion.

Fett in AOTC is a fan service when he isn't being a bounty hunter (I'm fine with him being hired to kill Padme, the clone template buisness was the fan service as was little boy Boba).

shanerjedi said:

Shooting someone holding a grenade is a sure fire way of getting yourself and everyone else in the room blown up.

Not with the right shot. ;)

 Shooting some holding a primed grenade and deactivating it would have to be a special shot indeed (I wonder where Fett was in 1963).

Sluggo, Vader's plan is to get Luke (hopefully before the Emperor).

The Endor trap is key to his plans and the Emperor's, Fett in that very simple subplot is being paid to help Vader in that task.

The same was true when he hired Fett to find the Falcon (he wanted hostages to lure Luke to him).

Fett was paid twice for that job (once by Vader and once by Jabba).

In this storyline he is luring the Rebels into a trap which will also draw Luke to Vader.

Fett will be paid twice for that job (once by Vader and once by the Rebels).

Beyond the difficulty of making the sequence I can't see a problem with that or how it works in a way contrary to how the characters are all known to behave.

It also makes Fett more complicated than just Jabba's bodyguard (which seems to be his primary role thanks to ROTJ in it's current form and ANH:SE).

Fett is a buisnessman, he will take money from whoever will pay him (what happens to them after he has done job is none of his concern).

The scenes in the palace could be done away with but it could be implied that he is there to make the deal with the Rebels or just having a bit of rest after dropping off Han, we don't know what happened between ESB and ROTJ, Fett might have had to have fight his way to get there with other bounty hunters trying to claim Han's bounty (I think George did some comic book game thing along those lines) but in terms of re-introducing the character it does no harm having in the palace for a while.

Opportunities for business certainly hang around Jabba.

shanerjedi said:

I agree about that. In fact, it made him seem weak when he drew his blaster at Boussh when she pulled out that detonator.

The ESB Fett would've iced her on the spot.

Shooting someone holding a grenade is a sure fire way of getting yourself and everyone else in the room blown up.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

The crawl doesn't say the Republic has ended it says the golden age has ended (the optimism and positive wave that formed it has broken).

What's at stake is the Republic itself but I suppose it can do no harm to suggest there is a small glimmer of hope it might be averted and reversed.

The code of Knighthood line is a simplification because it explains what the code is and that the Jedi are knights so I would prefer to keep it and lose the Knight at the end of Jedi.

Making an edit where the Federation are invading from outside the Republic is radical but it begs the question why don't the Republic respond en masse against these exterior invaders (unless Naboo is outside the Republic too in which case why do they respond at all)? It could make for an interesting reworking so suggestions on how that might play out would be a grand addition to the collection of ideas up for grabs on this thread.

For me it makes more sense if the Federation is the financial arm of a member state attacking the sovereignty of another member state. Adjusting every spoken reference to the Trade Federation in a realistic fashion would be difficult but someone might be able to do it.

However the text is there for anyone to play with and if you want to shift the words around in anyway to you own needs and ideas please do.

Incorporating some (but not all for the reasons I just described) of your ideas with the changes I made in response to ChainsawAsh's comments here's a new draught (the four dots no longer hang too):

A thousand generations since the defeat of the SITH LORDS and the golden age of the REPUBLIC is coming to an end.
Centuries of peace and justice have led to indolence and hesitation.

Ancient feuds and resentments fester unresolved in the senate, slavery and oppression sweep worlds beyond the Republlic's control. Bound by galactic law and the strictures of their code of knighthood the JEDI are powerless to intervene.

Taking advantage of these turbulent times the TRADE FEDERATION of Neimoidia has directed it’s fleet to the contested world of Naboo. Aided by sinister new allies....
 

Well, in that regards, we've seen that in our own history.  Hell, didn't you see 300?!  Didn't you have a large foreign invasion that the Spartan politicians did NOT want to fight?  Isn't Europe monkey wrenching the whole war on terror?  Didn't we see Europe do the same thing before World War 2?  And what about the Gondorians in LORD OF THE RINGS?

So there is plenty of precedent for an empire/republic/democracy to ignore the 8,000 pound army of gorillas approaching on the horizon.

 

None of those situations represent the scenerio you were laying out (not that there's anything wrong with that scenerio but to get it to work would require solutions and this is the place for trying to hammer those out) in fact only one of them is a real world scenerio (Lord Of The Rings, naturally).

300 has as little to do with the real world as Excalibur (both visually stunning but hardly historically accurate).

Europe is not a nation state or a Federal state, not then and not now (and don't get me started on the so called War On Terror, only the Emperor of idiots would declare war on an emotional state).

If Mexico invaded Texas the whole of the USA would go to war.

That's a state from the outside invading a state within a larger state (like the model you were proposing).

If Texas invaded Oklahoma that would be an internal war within a Federal state (more like the model I'm proposing) and if there was a weak leader in the White House and communications were difficult it may involve a bit of investigation before sending in the troops (especially seeing as it seems so difficult to believe, I like Howard Keal as much as the next guy but invasion...is that lee'gal?).

shanerjedi said:

I'd rather have the boba/plans plot remain anominous so the audience could figure it out for themselves rather than sponfed like lucas's prequels.

I agree with this. You could still have the Fett/Vader conversation, but make it sound like Fett gave the plans to the Bothans, a third party.

Thats' really sinister to have him basically covering his tracks like that.

Maybe have Vader ask him: "Have the plans been delivered to the Bothans?"

Then when Mothma is talking about it the audeince would go "Oh no, a setup!"

Could be the tension we'd need.

 

The problem with Fett giving it to the Bothan's is nobody knows who the Bothans are you'd have to be an EU fan to know what they look like and even then the number of people who have Bothan outfits is practically zero.

DarthBo said:

I don't like this idea of having Vader leak the plans to Boba Fett -> the Rebels.

a) Boba Fett shouldn't be in ROTJ

b) and why would you spoil the "it's a trap" plotline so soon?!

That would totally ruin Palpatine's lines because we'd already know he set it all up...

The only reason Fett doesn't work in ROTJ is he isn't doing what he was designed to do. Having Fett just cooling his heels in Jabba's palace, waiting to be killed off a couple of scenes later is a bit like having a man in a space suit walking into a coffee shop. It doesn't make sense. Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, he finds people or information and he sells it to anyone with the cash.

This storyline gives him a legitmate reason for being in this film (beyond just dying and tying up all the loose ends).

It doesn't spoil the trap plot line it creates tension from it.

We know it's a trap all along and out heroes are about to step right into it and from our side of the screen there is nothing we can do to stop them.

The trap storyline is never going to be a surprise in any viewing of this film, the Empire are always laying traps for the Rebels but now we know there is a trap and the tension comes from how the hell will the Rebels get out of it.

We don't even know the full nature of the trap so it could come from anywhere at anytime.

We have information the characters on screen do not have.

Like Hitchcock said :

There is an explosion. The public is surprised, but prior to this surprise, it has seen an absolutely ordinary scene, of no special consequence. Now, let us take a suspense situation. The bomb is underneath the table and the public knows it, probably because they have seen the anarchist place it there. The public is aware the bomb is going to explode at one o'clock and there is a clock in the decor. The public can see that it is a quarter to one. In these conditions, the same innocuous conversation becomes fascinating because the public is participating in the scene. The audience is longing to warn the characters on the screen: "You shouldn't be talking about such trivial matters. There is a bomb beneath you and it is about to explode!"

In the first case we have given the public fifteen seconds of surprise at the moment of the explosion. In the second we have provided them with fifteen minutes of suspense. The conclusion is that whenever possible the public must be informed. Except when the surprise is a twist, that is, when the unexpected ending is, in itself, the highlight of the story.

I'd like to see a lot of this sort of thing on Endor :

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

BarBar Jinkx said:

Yeah I think we are really onto something with the "don't tell padme" bit

 

 Yeah, especially since there is some truly terrible dialouge in this scene.

"I will even learn people to stop from dying!" What? Was that an actual sentence? ;)

 

I'm wondering...did you guys like the Palpatine dialouge in my altered scene?

I don't mind him saying that so much because he has become unhinged by grief (even the most sane person can utter utter nonsense like that when faced with an emotional crisis, especially one that the Jedi way of life hasn't prepared him for).

In the context of Palpatine seeing this instead of Padme it would be just the thing he'd want to hear.

I can just imagine his mental mechanism digesting this (great! the boy goes postal when his loved ones die and his ambitions border on barking bonkers...I really must sign this guy up).

Darth Piccolo said:

I'd rather have the boba/plans plot remain anominous so the audience caould figure it out for themselves rather than sponfed like lucas's prequels.  that's why my idea of showing boba leaving jabba's palace and later his ship is seen leaving one of the rebel ships would work better.

It might work either way.

The tell through showing approach would be labour intensive so perhaps your approach could be phase one and other people could build upon it if they feel the final effect is too ambiguous.

TMBTM said :

EDIT: so I agree with Darth Piccolo. No Vader calls to Fett would be even smarter. It would make the audience think that the rebels have a chance. Until Palaptine says that it is in fact a trap, at the end of the movie. At that moment only the audience understand that Fett was working for the Empire.

I'm never convinced that the trap is much of a surprise anyway (especially after ESB), surely the surprise is that they still manage to win regardless.

Like Hitchcock said you have to show the audience the bomb to draw tension from it.

TMBTM said:

doubleofive said:

Great job, Davnes on the Boba Fett plot.  I think it might actually work.  We could find people to do impressions of Vader, Ackbar, and Fett, I'm sure someone could use it!

The hard part would be making Ackbar... Maybe using morphing transitions between existing shots could works to get a good lips synch. But I fear that it would end looking like those youtube fake talking cats videos...

Not to mention that all the shots used on this new scenes should be deleted from the rest of the movie, otherwise it would look odd. Like those cheap B movies using several times the same footage.

If you gave Ackbar's current face to a lip reader it would make no sense at all, so lip synch isn't too much of a problem and Ady has proved that a lot can be done there.

But if it is too difficult, Fett could give the plans to a human Rebel general who could be dropped into the briefing scene.

Then all we would need would an actor in a Fett suit, an actor in a Rebel general suit and a section of corridor.

Not an effortless undertaking but well within the realms of the possible.

doubleofive said:

Great job, Davnes on the Boba Fett plot.  I think it might actually work.  We could find people to do impressions of Vader, Ackbar, and Fett, I'm sure someone could use it!

This is one instance where recycling may be essential, even welcome.

Boba Fett is a man of few words as is Vader (usually).

Take this dialogue sketch for example :

Vader : "Deliver the location tapes to the Alliance, Bounty Hunter"

Fett : "As you wish"

Every piece of that simple exchange can be sampled from previous utterances by the characters, it's short enough to be mysterious but says enough to set up the complexity of what is going on here.

Vader is hiring Fett to give the location to the Rebels and the Rebels are paying Fett for what Vader has supplied him.

Fett now serves a plot purpose and stays true to character.

I wish there was a way of taking Han's line "I expect to be well paid" and make him sound like the original Fett voice because it would outline how the two (at least back in ANH) are almost the same and how at the end of the story Han has moved away from the way he was.

rcb said:

Davnes007 said:

rcb said:

rcb said:

[I] think it would be cool to do something like when [in ROTS] the republic cruiser comes [alongside] of grevious' ship, they start firing...and shoot the crap out of each other.
[In] the novel, it talks about blockade runners, [when] after [their] engines are gone, making suicide runs into the stardestroyers!

hey davnes, did u look on my posts about the comaprisons between ROTS ROTJ space battles? i'd like to see u make something out of it.

Yes, I did, but I'm not sure my current skills are quite up to the task. Besides stealing some footage from ROTS, I'm not sure what I could do, really. However, any thoughts you have about that, or any other footage that I could use would be gladly accepted. :)

 

with the blockade runner deal, there is the scene where the tie fighter crashes into the bridge, maybe u can substitute the tie for the blockade runner. the bridge would need to fall off or something. i can't find the clip on youtube, but in the movie star shiptroopers, there is a scene where and asteroid is coming at a cruiser, it knocks the bridge off. that's wat i picture. if u can find the clip and look at it maybe that'll give u something to work with.

on boba, in the novel, it says he used his flamethrower to get himself out sense his jetpack was damaged. only scene i can think of him using a flamethrower is jango in AOTC. Then u could just take lines out of jangos/boba's scenes. "Solo! your dead" (boba lines ESB) lands on sand "Arrgh" (jango line AOTC).

i'd do it all myself, unfortunatly one of my computers won't run it and the one i'm on now says my system's too fast for the software. heck if i know what that means.

 

Here's a stab at the attack of Corvette Squadron:

It would work better in the silent edits because you wouldn't have to match the dialogue and Vader's calm (all be it lethal) reunion with Obi-Wan in ANH (which already doesn't fit seeing the manner of Vader's near death) would also fit better in a silent film.

In any other way I can't see how you could pull that off TMBTM.

Maybe someone else out there can?

EyeShotFirst I use VLC for my screen grabs, it's a great little player generally (It even plays most incomplete files, it's only come a cropper on really damaged ones) but the snapshot feature is really handy, just stick the DVD in your computer, pause it and say cheese.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

ChainsawAsh said:

The legs on the ESB one are also substantially taller.  They're the same basic shape, but the ROTJ legs are substantially shorter.

I believe it was because the original model partially melted after being left under bright, hot studio lights during ESB's shoot, so the parts that were melted were re-done from scratch for ROTJ.  It's possible that that's a load of dingo's kidneys, but it seems plausible enough to me.

I bet they shouted "Belgium" when they noticed that Chainsaw ;-)

Angel replaced Tydirium with a PT era shuttle and I replaced it with an Imperial Transport (I could never get the wings right in that mockup).

I also did the Emperor's shuttle with a red flag stripe (like the blue stripe it originally was meant to have).

Tobar said:

As for the ESB AT-ST. Someone has actually recreated it:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=49152&highlight=at-st
There's links to some reference as well. Perhaps you could get into contact with this guy and see if he could help you build your own or something.

Thanks for posting that link.

I've always preferred the ESB AT-ST to the ROTJ ones (they seem more sinister, elegant in a menacing way) and now I can get a nice close up view.

If I had my own way I'd replace all the ROTJ walkers with ESB ones The long legs add a weirdness to them which harks back to their Wellsian origins.

shanerjedi said:

Davnes007, don't worry about perfection when it comes to storyboards. What matters with them is the sense of story and overall pacing.

Great job.

 

edit:

I know imperial paintjobs have been discussed before, but what about giving Palp's shuttle a dark maroon color?

And I've always wondered why the heroes dont fly a parts shuttle instead of the same old type we always see. Would be better if it was distinct some way.

If you track back a bit there have been some mock ups of variations of both of those ideas.

If you have photoshop or something similar have a go yourself.

The more the merrier.

It would be nice to do a new matte based on the old one but totally fresh.

George may have thrown flipshots and the like at us but in a redux it would be better it as new as possible.

There are plenty of people who do the convention circuit in Boba Fett outfits and the like who could actually film new Fett scenes, even set builders :http://imageevent.com/publicgallery/events/inbox000?p=13&w=4&n=1&c=3&m=48&s=0&y=0&z=9&l=0

These mockups and video snips are place holders for hopefully full on sequences which look and feel as if they belong in a Star Wars film.

We should only re-use as a matter of last resort, it would be impossible to film Kenneth Colley when he was that young again (not unless someone has a working Tardis out there) but it might be possible to add more to his vocal performance.

The Ewoks films were rubbish so I have no problem with pulling them to pieces for parts but I think people would notice if we just used the same shots over and over again (like classic Galactica).

Darth Piccolo said:

maybe in the morning shot of jabba's palace we see like in dave's video, boba's ship taking off and then during the establishing shot of the rebel armada we see slave one leaving one of the battle ship

The scene takes place at night or really early in the morning, while it's still dark (just before Leia thaws out Han) so it would mean having to make a Jabba's Palace at night matte.

ben_danger said:

really cool!

the only thing i'm skeptical about is it becoming distracting to the pace and plot of the film, BUT, hopefully the fim is going to be jumbled a bit anyway, so maybe if Fett is used as a way of moving the plot to certain locations, it could work perhaps?

 

what if the whole boba fett plotline was the opening 10 minutes of the film? it could be an alternative to vader going to the death star perhaps?

I initially thought that Boba Fett knows that Leia is going to spring Han (what does he care he has already been paid for Han) which gives a new explanation for the nod he gives her when she's in disguise (he might have even have helped Lando and Chewie in to sweeten the pot as John Cavil would put it).

So it need not disrupt the flow, events would play out pretty much as before only without Fett in the skiff battle and the handing over of the location co-ordinates would take the place of Yoda's death which now happens at the beginning of the film (either right at the beginning or after the Vader scene, whichever works best).

It also changes the meaning of "I hope it was worth the price we paid".

Davnes007 said:

 

Okay, this has nothing to do with Ewoks...

Put together a short bunch of segments of the Boba Fett subplot that Bingowings mentioned HERE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8aOUYhUTUY

 

Bleedin brilliant, this seems actually doable now.

Boba Fett in ROTJ actually doing the job he was created to do and not dying like a clown.

I should point out though that Angel storyboarded it before I did.

Kudos for the hand crafting Chainsaw.

If I tried to do it that way it would end up like the opening titles to Sapphire & Steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmhSA1gZ2Sk&feature=related

shanerjedi said:

That was kidding based on your earlier suggestion that maybe Qui-Gon could replace Dooku.

"Meesa follow you now okiday."  

There are a lot of rivers in the text (big gaps between the words as the software you are using tries to fit whole words onto each line).

If you have access to someone with a mac this program removes those automatically and saves a heck of a lot of time (the programmer is working on Windows, Linux and iPhone versions but it has been a long time coming) :

http://alienryderflex.com/crawl/