Bingowings

Savage said:

adywan said:

ignore the first shot because that's just the colour corrected version and i haven't begun work on this yet

I'm assuming you're going to be adding a snowspeeder encircling the far left AT-AT to jive with the collapse, and as such, the sequence will look pretty damned good.  I think the new shot works well, but I do find myself looking more at the falling AT-AT than Luke.  Good work as always, though!

 

Perhaps your eyes are drawn to the falling AT-AT because you know it's new, show it to someone less familiar with the material and they might focus more on Luke.

shanerjedi said:

You mean Qui-Gon taking his own path. :p

Qui-Gon doesn't take his own path Dooku does all Qui-Gon does is disagree but he doesn't act on it (other than putting his foot down over training Anakin, something the Council on agrees on when he has died).

JediMasterFisher said:

JasonN said:

JediMasterFisher said:

That youtube reviewer knows nothing about the story of Star Wars. He says the Jedi were bad because they did not lead an army to free the slaves. Doesnt he realize that would start a war with the Hutt clans and that wouldnt be good.

How could he?
Apart from seeing Jabba in the first 1/3 of RotJ (oh, and that bullsh*t scene in the SW Special Edition), the Hutts play absolutely NO purpose to the story of the six SW films, so why would the reviewer (or for that matter, the majority of the audiences who saw these movies) have any knowledge of that "Hutt war" concept???

I dont see how its hard to understand that it would cause a war with the people (or creatures) in power on Tatooine. I was about 9 when I first saw TPM (and had never seen a star wars film before) and I understood that concept perfectly.

 

The dialogue states clearly that Tatooine is run by the Hutts who are gangsters and that Tatooine isn't a member of the Republic.

What it doesn't explain is why the Jedi can't just do as they please anyway.

Their temple is on Coruscant, they have ties to the Senate and the Chancellor's office so it seems safe to assume they are a Republic based order and bound by it's laws as well as those of their order.

Making that clear in the crawl would remove that ambiquity.

Clearly when the Empire took over it also expanded to include Tatooine (which is why stormtroopers on the streets of Mos Eisley didn't provoke any local trouble) but back in the days of the Republic the Jedi didn't have jurisdiction.

This could lead people like Dooku into taking his own path due to frustration over what they couldn't do.

The crawl doesn't say the Republic has ended it says the golden age has ended (the optimism and positive wave that formed it has broken).

What's at stake is the Republic itself but I suppose it can do no harm to suggest there is a small glimmer of hope it might be averted and reversed.

The code of Knighthood line is a simplification because it explains what the code is and that the Jedi are knights so I would prefer to keep it and lose the Knight at the end of Jedi.

Making an edit where the Federation are invading from outside the Republic is radical but it begs the question why don't the Republic respond en masse against these exterior invaders (unless Naboo is outside the Republic too in which case why do they respond at all)? It could make for an interesting reworking so suggestions on how that might play out would be a grand addition to the collection of ideas up for grabs on this thread.

For me it makes more sense if the Federation is the financial arm of a member state attacking the sovereignty of another member state. Adjusting every spoken reference to the Trade Federation in a realistic fashion would be difficult but someone might be able to do it.

However the text is there for anyone to play with and if you want to shift the words around in anyway to you own needs and ideas please do.

Incorporating some (but not all for the reasons I just described) of your ideas with the changes I made in response to ChainsawAsh's comments here's a new draught (the four dots no longer hang too):

A thousand generations since the defeat of the SITH LORDS and the golden age of the REPUBLIC is coming to an end.
Centuries of peace and justice have led to indolence and hesitation.

Ancient feuds and resentments fester unresolved in the senate, slavery and oppression sweep worlds beyond the Republlic's control. Bound by galactic law and the strictures of their code of knighthood the JEDI are powerless to intervene.

Taking advantage of these turbulent times the TRADE FEDERATION of Neimoidia has directed it’s fleet to the contested world of Naboo. Aided by sinister new allies....
 

The reason why I called them the Trade Federation of Neimoidia rather than THE Trade Federation was to underline that they represent the trading interests of the Neimoidians only (we don't see any other races working for them after all).

The Republic could be like a Federal UN, a super state formed from other states which have internal constitutions, which allow for monarchs etc but where they have a shared constitution for the larger group.

Neimoidia is a member of the Republic and it's Trade Federation is doing it's own thing (like BP hiring mercenaries).

shanerjedi said:

That's always going to be the challenge replacing existing shots like the original. It was an actual shot, photographed on a stage with everything in camera(exception being the animated lasers).

That's why there needs to be more softer focus on the mtns in the background: to match existing photographed footage.

Otherwise these new shots will make more sense continuity wise but will stand out too much.

That was one of the problems with the Star Wars Special Editions to begin with.

In camera effects have problems too, when you film models infront of a backdrop the backdrop is a surface not a a three dimensional space.

The reason why the in camera effects look so good in Blade Runner is that was a huge model landscape constructed with forced perspective and filmed in a higher resolution format than the live action (light was falling on real objects in a three dimensional space).

In ESB the models were three dimensional as was the ground but the background was a flat painting (a really good one but a flat surface none the less).

Dropping in a backdrop after the event at least allows for that background to be adjusted to correct any flatness that might come from that technique.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

Monroville said :

In this case, I like the original DVD shot better. I could see adding an AT-AT in the mid ground on the left (to balance the far off AT-AT and the foreground one - one that is mid size between the 2 we see) but the matte Ady is using looks very fakish. I could see maybe doing something with the cloudscape, but the back"ground" should stay the same (just color corrected).

I can't agree with you there, the original looks like what it is (a nice painting propped behind the models and hidden behind a weird tint) Ady's shots have much more depth to them, they look less like a theatre backdrop and more like a real landscape.

Um, Bingo?  Are we looking at the same 2 pictures?  Granted, I would like the DVD shot color corrected, but you can't tell me that the background on the DVD shot looks more like a painting than the backdrop on the Ady pic.  Everything is so brightly lit that it is hard to tell just how far back the image really goes - it is the same problem with a lot of Prequel shots in that a lot of movies nowadays in general has that "everything must be lit up to show where the money was spent" look which looks fake.

When there is no real distinguishment between the foreground, midground and background, anything is going to look flat.

 

Maybe it's just that our eyes are trained differently. I used to set up a lot of photographic backdrops for art installations and advertising photographs so while I appreciate that the original painting was a beautiful piece of work, familiarity with the technique has broken the illusion for me.

The section in the new shots has the mountain range receeding at more levels and the atmospheric effects and light glare obscure the join in a way that's more convincing to me.

As a still image the distant walker set up an equilateral triangle with Luke's walker and the fallen one (which is a visually stable shape) and it added scale to the battlefield and balance to the shot. A moving image is a whole different ball game and Ady has given a very good reason for it not being there but even so the new shots fool these eyes much more than the DVD shots.

adywan said:

also the whole continuity problems will mean that unless i can get new shots of the ESB AT-ST to insert into this sequence, then it will have to go from the shot where luke looks up to see the AT-AT explode. One minute its there and the next its gone

 

To be honest I was never convinced with the composition of that shot (as much as I love the ESB AT-ST it always seemed a little flat there) but it might be possible to take the element and put it into a different shot where continuity isn't an issue.

Monroville said :

In this case, I like the original DVD shot better. I could see adding an AT-AT in the mid ground on the left (to balance the far off AT-AT and the foreground one - one that is mid size between the 2 we see) but the matte Ady is using looks very fakish. I could see maybe doing something with the cloudscape, but the back"ground" should stay the same (just color corrected).

I can't agree with you there, the original looks like what it is (a nice painting propped behind the models and hidden behind a weird tint) Ady's shots have much more depth to them, they look less like a theatre backdrop and more like a real landscape.

corellian77 said:

I feel bad for you Ady... you're doing amazing work, and, although the intent of the forum members is to give you constructive feedback, you must feel at times like we do nothing but bitch :)

Just wanted to let you know that your thoughtful, patient responses explaining the rationale behind your decisions is much appreciated.

Hear, hear!

When we are responding to a still image it can be difficult to judge what's going on without contextual explanation and Ady frequently gives us that and often changes a lot of time consuming work when he finds what has been suggested has merit.

The amount of work going into these projects is staggering, I hope we are more of a help than an hindrance.

Adding a few "What have I done?"s from the Mace death bit of ROTS might make Anakin into someone who genuinely conflicted, he knows what he did was wrong but his fury is trying to justify his actions.

I'm rather keen to trim that scene in ROTS to almost nothing (to create the impression that he actually died trying to save Mace) so it makes sense to reuse the dialogue.

Besides Anakin goes too quickly to "What have I done?" to bending the knee in that scene for my taste.

You could even add Padme coming in at the end of the conversation so she assumes that he is just upset over the death of his mother.

Sluggo said:

Bingowings said:

A friend of mine, who really should join up for here suggested that the body dissapearing thing should be to be an act of will.

Ben when he is cut down by Vader knows he is going to die and he knows the correct meditiation to maintain his consciousness and return to the physical world via the Force. The same is true of Yoda.

Qui-Gon and Anakin don't know the currect procedure but learn it in the afterlife because there is a need to return.

Qui-Gon needs to help the last two Jedi fix the situation caused by the rise of the Sith and Vader needs to continue his redemption by helping the last Jedi rebuild what he destroyed.

That's a good explanation but I don't know how that could be put on screen in a way that doesn't sound (if you pardon the pun) forced.

 

 

 Conceptually, I really don't have a problem with Qui-gon or Anakin disappearing into the force.  The bigger problem is to have it work on screen.  Anakin isn't around to see Qui-gon ka-bobed, so as Vader he can still be surprised when Ben disappears.  The only problem is the funeral of Qui-gon.  Is there any information that is absolutely nessecary to keep?  I think the 'rule of 2' can go, it was never really brought back up in the rest of the movies.  Anakin's getting trained by Obi-wan can also be cut with the funeral.  Yoda delivers this information in the next scene anyway.

If you can cut the funeral, there shouldn't be an issue of Qui-gon disappearing.

 

There is still an issue in that Qui-Gon doesn't disappear as he dies in Obi-Wan's arms (same goes for Anakin) perhaps cremation isn't a common funereal practise in the Star Wars universe and it freed the body allowing the spirit to decide it's fate in the afterlife (much as Hindus and Sikhs believe).

It could be common to the Naboo and convieniant for Luke (lots of wood and a big metal and plastic form to get rid of).

This is all academic unless there is a way of showing this on screen.

I like the two pyres (partly because it would allow for Dooku to turn up in Episode One) they book end each other but they could be trimmed bear of all that repeat exposition.

If Padme is cremated too saving that pendant and giving it to Leia (who gives it to Luke) would be a good final trigger for Vader turning on Palpatine.

It falling to the floor when Luke is shot with Force lightning would tie the first episode to the last and remind Vader that he was once little near orphan Annie.

Beautiful work both Adywan and Angel.

I know that there is a lot of work involved but the distant walker does add scale to the battlefield which is a little lost when it is removed.

A friend of mine, who really should join up for here suggested that the body dissapearing thing should be to be an act of will.

Ben when he is cut down by Vader knows he is going to die and he knows the correct meditiation to maintain his consciousness and return to the physical world via the Force. The same is true of Yoda.

Qui-Gon and Anakin don't know the correct procedure but learn it in the afterlife because there is a need to return.

Qui-Gon needs to help the last two Jedi fix the situation caused by the rise of the Sith and Vader needs to continue his redemption by helping the last Jedi rebuild what he destroyed.

That's a good explanation but I don't know how that could be put on screen in a way that doesn't sound (if you pardon the pun) forced.

BarBar Jinkx said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4cCQrlxAfw

Nice but I had more of a waist up view in mind for palps (kinda like the emperors) and have the hollo projector on the table (where he is stood when padme comes in)

I'm going off memory here again, but, isn't there a shot where a rodian interrupts the meeting at the beginning of the movie where palps is sat at his desk that could be worked in here so he is looking down at anakin's holo. (obviously the background would have to be altered to remove the jedi from the seats.)

I zoomed in to show his head (much like the Emperor hologram in ESB) but Artoo would need to be in the room to project the message (this could be borrowed from other scenes the garage scene in ANH would be an ideal place because he's in the same space) :

It's always bugged me that with all the Ewoks have seen recently they thought Threepio was a God (which is why I suggested that they already have a God that looks like Threepio scroll back for details) but they ignore what he says until he floats in a chair so why aren't they worshiping the Imperials?

They fly throught the forests, put a new moon in the sky, they shoot red lightning out of their guns, look like skeletons and ride metal chickens.

That's why I suggested that Artoo uses his holographic projector to cast frightening images over Threepio while he floats in the air  (really freak the furry fellas out).

Alternatively cut the whole cannibal holocaust thing and have them set them free when he tells them to, if he's a God he shouldn't need to prove himself.

shanerjedi said:

I just dont like the idea that the jedi would sit by and allow slavery because of ancient law.

Maybe Qui-Gon goes against this?

Okay, so if you tied slavery and those suggestions into the story, and Naboo, then you could have Qui-Gon going against the will of the council and fighting to free Naboo......and the labour force the populace represents

As you know I'm all ears when it comes to radical ideas but how would you go about changing the story so Qui-Gon can be seen to be and go against those rules?

We know that Qui-Gon often is often defiant of the council (which is why he isn't on it and unlike older Anakin that doesn't matter to him one bit) but how could it be shown?

It's a shame really that Qui-Gon was killed, imagine if Dooku's part in the story was replaced with Qui-Gon (Mmm....How could that be done?).

ChainsawAsh said:

I think the first paragraph needs to be longer - it just looks ... weird as one short sentence.

But I really like where it's going so far.

I've shifted the words around a bit to make the paragraphs roughly the same length (though they are all long single sentences, minus the last one which is one long sentences and one very short one).

A thousand generations since the defeat of the SITH LORDS and the golden age of the REPUBLIC is at an end.

Centuries of peace and justice have led to indolence and hesitation as ancient feuds and resentments fester unresolved in the senate.

Bound by galactic law and the strictures of their code of knighthood the JEDI are powerless to intervene as slavery and oppression sweep worlds beyond Republican control.

Taking advantage of these turbulent times the TRADE FEDERATION of Neimoidia has directed it’s fleet to the contested world of Naboo. Aided by sinister new allies....

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Here's my early version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4cCQrlxAfw

My thoughts are it should be left ambiguous as to wether Anakin told Palps or not...we then find out in ROTS that he in fact DID.

Great work there it's almost as if Palpatine's hologram is fulfilling the same role for Anakin that Ben's ghost did for Luke.

It's a bit like my "Dead Man's Switch" idea that once the shield is down the Death Star is programmed to automatically blow up Endor.

Giving us that ticking time bomb as it turns to get into range.

Howdee Shanerjedi! Some nice ideas there (which I assume you would get over by giving the Kaminoans a language and subtitles).

I liked Magnoliafan's idea that the big ball was a holy relic that the Naboo had pinched off the Gungans.

Without any explanation that ball thing is flipping weird (here Nass shout peace while holding up a huge bomb).

The hollow planet thing must have been a dropped plotline (I thought that George was going to have Naboo turned into the Death Star or something when I first watched it).

I always thought it odd that Sidious insisted that Gunray got Amidala to sign the treaty while Palpatine insisted that she didn't.

I read that as Sidious/Palpatine wanted the conflict to be drawn out with Gunray chasing the legitimate take over line to the point where it would patently obvious it wasn't, sending the Federation out of the Republic and taking his financial chums with him.

With half the money gone the two sides would be more evenly matched and would knock more out of each other until there was nothing left but to surrender everything to the Empire.

It was something of a win, win situation for Palps, either the Queen signed away her planet's sovereign rights clearly under duress creating a scandal in the senate or Nute Gunray would be sent home with a flea in his ear making him more resentful and buttered up for the Seperatist cause.

InfoDroid said:

The way I understand it is, the Sith are kind of like a secret society.  They officially "don't exist".  No one knows the Emperor or Darth Vader are Dark Lords of the Sith by the time we get to ANH.  And any suggestion of that is probably passed off as ridculous, politically-motivated rumor.  It's not public knowledge, and probably not something they want to advertise given the Sith's long dubious history.

Like David Icke's shape shifting lizards of the Illuminati, I suppose (that would explain the eyes)?

Sluggo said:

ben_danger said:

i love theodos dialogue, it brings some decent character to the federation goons, and calling to 'legends' of the jedi, makes them sound that extra bit more unknown that we need for suggestions that they are in the OT.

 

i would love it if the whole 'sith' concept could be written out. sith are one of my favourite things in star wars, but as they ernt invented until after the OT, it would be good perhaps to just have it that palpatine is a force user who indulges in the dark side, and anakin falls to the dark side. the 'sith' in this context may over complicate things perhaps? unless the term 'sith' could somehow be slipped into the OT.

 

the big jedi battle from AOTC would be really cool in TPM, for a climax in the centre of theed. it could perhaps eliminate the need for the gungan battle, and maybe the gungans altogether. perhaps as the republic refuse assistance, the jedi take it upon themselves to do so?

 

 They had the sith in the OT, they just never made it into the movies.  They were in the script of Star Wars and in the novel.  The scenes that mentioned Vader was a sith lord were cut.  It never established exactly what a sith was however.  The EU came along and expanded it in the 80's, then it was really expanded in the 90's, and sort of reigned in for the prequels.  It has always been sort of a mess.

Palpatine was invented as a senator who became Emperor through manipulating the system.  And he was a force user, but originally, he never really was associated with the Jedi or Sith.

 

My take on the Sith thing is why take it out if it's doing no harm?

If you watch the films from 1 to 6 by the time you get to ANH you know what a Sith is so you don't need to hear it again and again.

If you watch them in the order they were made it just adds a little extra to the story.

Not all Sith were Jedi so not every dark side user followed the path that Vader took, finding that there is a rival cult of Force users out there adds a bit of extra flavour to the story.

I can't see where you would put a reference to Anakin's piloting skills into a prequel crawl or why you would need to.

You see him pilot a Racing Pod, a Naboo Starfighter, an Airspeeder, a Swoopbike and a Jedi Starfighter in the films, the crawl is just a means of setting up what you need to know at the beginning of each film.

You can't do it for TPM because we haven't met him, the Seperatist movement is the big change in AOTC and the Clone War is the big event of between AOTC and ROTS.

Return Of The Flip Shot.

I think you need the Gungans (just not stupid Gungans).

I see them like native Americans during the American Civil War.

Their initial attitude would be resentment to both sides, it was always their planet and the Naboo and the Neimoidians are both invaders (all be it that the Naboo have been around long enough to be established as a seperate community).

They just want them to both bugger off.

But in the end they figure that the Naboo aren't a threat to their current way of life but the Trade Federation are and join sides with them.

Here's my stab at a new crawl for TPM (it needs to be spaced better because the .... is floating on it's own) :

Octorox said:

No offense but I completely despise TheoOdo's idea. The point of the prequels is to show the glory day's of the old republic and how they came to an end. There needs to be a huge but gradual shift in attitude and style from TPM to ANH. To have the Jedi and the Republic  already laughable Day 1 does not show that.

In an ideal world we would have seen some of those glory days but that's impossible without reshooting the films from scratch.

Whatever way you cut it the Republic and the Jedi are already on their way out at the beginning of Episode One (possibly after centuries of behind the scenes manipulation by the Sith or just by the sheer weight of the conflicting interests it had to keep in balance).

Sidious exploits a very exploitable situation.

It may be that there never really was a golden age and that it's as mythical as Camelot.

A thousand generations is a long time to build up monumental nostalgia compared against even Galactic peace and democracy could be made to seem dull and disposable.

Like Joni sang, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone".