Please post some of these observations on the After Ady thread as they may be useful for people building on what he has already accomplished.
I think that interpretation of the Clone Wars would have been very popular.
Those Rontos only look ok as extra background detail when they are out of focus or obscured by motion blur (the CGI wasn't even up to the state of the art of the day and has dated terribly).
I suppose they do add to the feeling that it's an alien world with alien creatures (just as the Banthas and Dewbacks do) but only when they look convincing.
Often the Tauntauns don't look convincing in ESB (which I know Ady is going to tinker with, or already has) and people accept that because of the limitations of the day, not because they aren't really there half the time.
I don't think the crime is having them there it's having them there looking out of place and I think Ady struck the right balance with them and the CGI Dewbacks.
At least we don't have the silly painted on Jawas swinging around them and construction droids beating the crap out of Imperial probe things now.
rcb said:hard to see the dark side is...
but, yea, i'd say not to make them so big. especially when the cast walks right by them without even taking a second glance at the big wood statue.
The giant lizard statue isn't that much different from the ruins of Yavin IV, the moon could have been occupied and isn't anymore or the natives might be harmless.
The giant Ewok idol is an in joke, the Rebels frequently wander into dangerous situations without checking out the lay of the land often after ignoring what a droid is telling them (the detention centre on the Death Star, the hyperdrive on the Falcon, the trapdoor to the Rancor pit, a few minutes before that mockup they assume there are only two biker scouts when there are more and after they trigger an obvious trap).
But I will see if there is a better place to hide the teddy bear (remember though that these are mock-ups of ideas not final shots).
doubleofive said:ChainsawAsh said:Ady didn't spend that much time on the Purist version, if I remember correctly - it was mostly done to appease fans who were unhappy with some changes to the full version (specifically music changes and such). Apparently there was one other big reason that he's being all secretive about. At any rate, because it wasn't "his" verison, so to speak, he didn't release a DVD-9 of it. And since the original ANH:R files no longer exist, that's the best the "Purist" version will ever look (which is fine by me since I don't really care about it that much).
I have a theory, but I'm not sure if its right (which I guess is why it's a theory).
A Dancing Demon? Nah, something isn't right there....
Monroville said:
Regardless, what can be done with EMPIRE and JEDI I wonder? Now if someone created a thread so we could post ideas on what could be added or enhanced....
I heard a rumour someone already made something like that (I wonder where it could be?) ;-)
Just wanted to add my card to the pile:
Sevb32 said:Bingowings said:Sevb32 said:Oh then you should know. I thought that shot looked better than ever.
It does as I indicated in my posting but those observations are still true even in Ady's greatly improved version.
The far wall still looks like an interior wall and not really like an exterior one and there isn't much (other than tinkering with it's reflective properties) that can be done about it.
It was designed to be inside and in the SE it was turned into an exterior wall, Lucas's first attempt had the silly low railing and the see through shadows (which Ady has skillfully fixed) but it also reflected the tint on the far wall which Ady's version doesn't do so much (sure the sky is different and much better) but perhaps a little tweak would turn an already better version into an even better one.
But there is only so much that can be done with the set as it originally was.
I say so what if it leads to an interior wall. Who's to say it can't be designed that way in Cloud City?
You still seem to misunderstand me.
The wall looks like it's inside a building, partly because it resembles more the interior architecture of the place more than the exterior (a throw back to the fact it was initially designed that way, which would be almost impossible to rectify) but to some extent because of the interaction between the outside environment (the light intensity and colour of the sky line, which is possible to rectify if Ady wants to).
A white semi glossy surface would reflect back more of the colour and light of the surrounding environment than an interior wall would because it is closer to the exterior elements.
Ady has already done a lot of work on that scene and he would be well within his rights to say enough is enough and I'm happy with that if that is the case.
As for the sets around the pit I have no problem with them, they look great and they belong to a different kind of area to the rest of the city.
If you were to go to a power plant near Florence I'm sure the interior architecture would be very different from civic buildings (even new ones).
It's an industrial area (much like the freezing chamber) so it's bound to look different (the curves of the vanes however do carry some of the design ethic of the upper levels down to the lower areas but that may be just as much functional as aesthetic).
rcb said:Bingowings said:rcb said:that seems a little, i won't beat around the bush. i don't like it.
It would be helpful if you beat around the bush a little bit.
What don't you like about it, the idea, the execution (and if so what about the execution)?
i don't mean to offend u at all, it just seems off for endor. i understand wat ur saying with the ewoks and all, but i just can't see them making idle carvings.
You didn't offend me I assure you, I just sought clarification.
Most forest dwelling tribal societies have some form of artistic expression and they worship Threepio so they must have a spiritual sense and it is theistic to some degree because they think he is "some kind of god".
They decorate themselves with bones (they are prepared to eat their enemies and even the friends of their sort of deity) they seem to respect warriors (they were going to eat Luke, Han and Chewie who gave up without a fight but didn't eat Leia who shot a couple of Imperials). And they have an oral tradition so no writing which would suggest pictographic art might be a feature.
It just depends on what level of and style of expression you think this culture would employ.
Sevb32 said:Oh then you should know. I thought that shot looked better than ever.
It does as I indicated in my posting but those observations are still true even in Ady's greatly improved version.
The far wall still looks like an interior wall and not really like an exterior one and there isn't much (other than tinkering with it's reflective properties) that can be done about it.
It was designed to be inside and in the SE it was turned into an exterior wall, Lucas's first attempt had the silly low railing and the see through shadows (which Ady has skillfully fixed) but it also reflected the tint on the far wall which Ady's version doesn't do so much (sure the sky is different and much better) but perhaps a little tweak would turn an already better version into an even better one.
But there is only so much that can be done with the set as it originally was.
Sevb32 said:Again, wait until the trailer.
I've seen the trailer.
Ripplin said:^If it helps, I like the idea and the execution! Great idea and it makes perfect sense. It's no stretch of the imagination to think that the Ewoks are very good with tools and such and would have some sort of cultural markers here and there. :) The 3PO-like idol was a nice one, too.
Thanks for that, personally I think the giant Ewok idol doesn't look so good but it might be an idea someone else could do better, having it flash by a few seconds before we first see them (not knowing how big Ewoks are and seeing a giant wooden carving all be it in the distance and out of focus might pay off for when we see how small they are and later learn how good they are at fighting).
"They are big and possibly threatening, oh they are small and cute, oh they are tough and resourceful (and eat people)."
That's the sort of twisting about with a first time viewer fun that could be had with adding stuff (but that mock up may not convey that idea as well as it could).
Just like the head on a stick mock up, the idea is to flesh these small furry people out so the audience reaction is more complex than "ain't they cute".
Tobar said:Janskeet said:I never liked this shot:
It's obvious that balcony used to be a closed wall because why would they leave an open entrance into cloud city from outside. Doesn't it rain on cloud city? PErhaps this could be changed to look more convincing.
I really wish you would at least try to look around a little before posting Janskeet. Right there in Ady's first post there's a side by side comparison of that shot.
I think Janskeet was saying that the altered scene (even in Ady's version) isn't as convincing as it could be because the wall on the other side of the balcony looks like an interior wall than an exterior wall (mostly because of the architecture which would be a real bugger to change).
Ady seems to be finished with what he is going to do with it but perhaps further colour alteration (it's a white polished wall so it might reflect the tinted light more) would add to the impression that this is an exterior shot rather than an interior one with a balcony painted on one wall).
Ady's floor and raised balcony does make the illusion more convincing than it was.
rcb said:that seems a little, i won't beat around the bush. i don't like it.
It would be helpful if you beat around the bush a little bit.
What don't you like about it, the idea, the execution (and if so what about the execution)?
Adding a bit of ethnic woodcraft to Endor:
Keeping up the R2 noticing stuff that nobody else does motif, "Dinsdale!":
I like the way it makes out that Han is laying Leia's head onto a logo shaped pillow (that old scoundrel).
I can't remember, like so many people I have a folder marked Star Wars with bits that I've dug up over the years I'll PM you what I have got but I don't think they are high enough resolution for your needs.
Hopefully someone out there has something better.
Please forgive the squishing as I haven't got the original artwork so I can't trim it to size accurately but I was thinking something along the lines of this one to match the basic look of your brilliant ANH cover:
Darth Lars said:I can't believe that there are people who still defend the Jabba scene in ANH-SE:
ChainsawAsh said:
I don't think putting Jabba in is necessary at all.
1) His scene becomes redundant with the lines of dialogue moved from there to Greedo's scene
2) Jabba comes across as a pushover who isn't dangerous in the slightest
3) The tail ... oh Christ the tail ...
4. This scene becomes the first time that we see the Millenium Falcon. That fact completely ruins the scene when Luke sees the Falcon for the first time and gets to exclaim "What a piece of Junk!".
5. There is a (two?) guy here that looks like and is dressed exactly like Greedo. What's up?
6. Why would Jabba contradict what Greedo says and let him off the hook? That removes the motivation why Han is so ruthlessly chased by Boba Fett later on.
7. Showing Jabba destroys the mystery around his character.
To be honest for what you describe as the reveal shot to be blown, the Falcon should look amazing and Luke should instantly burst our awe bubble with that line. The Falcon however does look like a piece of junk (but it goes like greased lightning) and it is shot in a rather unremarkable way so that scene just sets up a slightly running gag. So I don't think the Jabba scene spoils anything in that regard.
Greedo's lot looking the same isn't a major problem either, most hippos look the same to our eyes but hippos can tell each other apart (someone could alter some of the costume details but they may just be wearing a standard jump suit, how many people have you seen wearing blue jeans and a white tee-shirt on the same day?).
Greedo was clearly trying to make a big name for himself and pocket a bit of money on the side, if Solo was in genuine peril there and then he wouldn't be hanging about so casually. He sincerely thinks if he can get a quick job he can pay off his debts and Jabba will leave him alone and in the scene he tells Jabba that he has a new job and Jabba ups the price but delivers a warning that if he doesn't get the money back there will be consequences. So it doesn't bother me that he let's Solo try to get more money either Jabba is a buisness man and Greedo wasn't as good for buisness as Han was but if Solo disrespects him any more he will have to be made an example of.
And there is no real mystery to Jabba, he's a gangster, an alien gangster but a gangster none the less if Han owed the money to a tax collector (even an Alien tax inspector) would there be any more of a mystery?
The real problems in the scene are the execution, the dialogue adds nothing new (something that could be altered with different subtitles), the model still doesn't look right (it looks more like Jabba now but the colour and lighting is way off and the texture is all wrong) and Han stepping on the tail is way off.
Bumping off Greedo is something Jabba could forgive if he made some extra money out of it but would Vito Corleone (or any of his family) put up with an underling kicking him up the arse and cracking a joke about it infront of his friends?
I don't think so.
To make this scene work would require a lot of effort for very little pay off (it might be doable and I'd welcome attempts to try).
It could be done like the opening scene of The Godfather showing Jabba in the shadows and not all at once (which would require reframing it but would get around the tail problem) or by showing Jabba as a hologram (so Solo could walk right through the tail).
It's in Artoo's character to rush out and try to rescue, the humans just as it's in Threepio's character to warn him not to do so and get dragged into trouble despite himself so I was happy with that part of the droids role in the sequence and the jets make sense for an astrodroid to have (a lot of his work would be on the outside of ships doing repairs, the only time where it would make sense for him to use them in the OT would have been escaping off Jabba's barge and I've suggested that as a change for ROTJ.)
The bit that doesn't work is what happens to Threepio.
Not only is the idea utterly stupid and the joke not even remotely funny but the effects are so bad it looks like a fan made spoof scene (Robot Chicken only not very funny).
George never figured out what to do with Threepio in the prequels, which is a shame because the idea of having them as the Greek Chorus of the saga (having this huge Galactic saga underpinned by a couple of robotic slaves) is a great one.
It might have been fun to have still have him fall off the little bridge thing but into the bowels of the factory line and shut down the external defenses around the Seperatist conference allowing for Mace and the Other Jedi to land undetected (Obi-Wan and Padme land but they are detected straight away).
RoccondilRinon said:It was a very silly movie, but fun. You just can't take it remotely seriously, but hey, you're not meant to.
The sillyness detracted from any fun (as did the lack of internal logic) it wasn't a comedy like Mars Attacks!, Ghostbusters or Men In Black (all much better films) it wasn't so bad it was good like Plan Nine From Outer Space, it was a jingoistic gung-ho bit of pseudo-patrotic sentiment pretending to be escapist science fiction.
In short it was Mars Attacks! without the jokes or Starship Troopers without the internal logic and satire (now that too is a much better film even if it isn't as good as the book).
ANH and ESB painted a very big galaxy, ruled by a huge Empire (with it's own internal bickering) backed up by a huge starfleet of thousands of ships (and presumably billions of troops) with a criminal underclass and a growing and viable Rebellion.
Going by the end of ROTJ everything shrank down to two old men about twenty capital ships and less than a hundred troops that could be taken down by teddy bears armed with stone age weapons of an afternoon (sure there is a huge body of EU material which continues the fight off the screen but from what we see on screen everything is tied up in nice little dissapointing bow).
That and the toilet humour, slapstick and references to Tarzan put ROTJ into much the same footing as where Independence Day would later place it's big flapping flag and set the scene for what didn't work with the prequels.
Echo3 said:I LOL'd. sorry if its been posted.
Who can tire of this Intergalactic gem?
Jonno said:Right, here's version B as promised:
Came out pretty well actually - good thinking, Bingowings!
Looks smart but I was thinking of the slightly less blue varient without the giant Yoda (if you have it, sadly I do not) :
Ripplin said:Bingowings said:But Independence Day is a terrible film, it's Mars Attacks! without the jokes (not to mention the only film I actually shouted at and I got applause too).
What did you shout at it, if I may ask? ;) Sounds like you were doing live Rifftrax.
I've only seen around 3 or 4 minutes of Independence Day; one scene with Randy Quaid saying some tired catchphrases (the kind that make it seem like they're really trying to make it a catchphrase...which I hate) and one with a dog jumping away from some fire in a tunnel in slow motion or something. I immediately thought 'ehhh, this is not for me' and I've never actually watched it. I did see Mars Attacks! and that was a colossal waste of time. :p
Anyway, ESB wishlist... Hmm, well, I wish someone (especially Adywan in the ESB:R thread) would comment on that idea of having R2 fall straight into the hole after he fixes the hyperdrive, rather than that bounce/whatever thing he does.
Remember there was the long death scene with the first lady in the desert and then she turned up alive only to die again in the bunker?
Come the second death scene I had enough (not just of the wringing out of emotion with that scene but also with the film generally) so I shouted,"For God sake woman hurry up and die!", I love cinema and I love escapist science fiction and I would normally never shout out anything even in a bad film but this time I did and I must of caught the mood.
It sounded like the death of liberty.
Ripplin said:
Bingo, I keep seeing your mock-ups only because someone has included them in a quote, because you keep editing your old posts. :p
I'm just trying to save space and posting the mock up to illustrate a point I have already made.
SomethingStarWarsRelated said:Alright here we go, ben_danger :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKtom9v3kL4
See I told you the eye droid with a scanning laser idea had legs.
There are a few too many calls of "Padme!"(I half expected someone to call out "Doctor Scott!", "Janet!") and the OT music doesn't always capture the mood (it's sometimes heroic when it should be evoking dynamic tension).
But on the whole a successful stab.
But Independence Day is a terrible film, it's Mars Attacks! without the jokes (not to mention the only film I actually shouted at and I got applause too).
