Bingowings

fishmanlee said:

if followed the way it is in the "script" it would be RIGHT after death star in dissaray (sp?) (or the "The Emporer is not as forgiving as i am" scene

It couldn't fit there now because of the available footage which is why I suggested the places I did, the earliest would put it quite close.

It wouldn't be possible to totally reconstruct the early script forms but it may be possible to adapt key ideas like, Luke returning to Ben's Hut, the two Death Stars etc to fit into the existing footage and there have been a lot of suggestions along those lines if you track back (it's a fun thread to read and it links into older threads which are also brimming with ideas, well worth a read).

fishmanlee said:

would be kinda hard because its basicly part of the bens hut scene or the lightsaber construction cave if you will

I don't know if you have been following any of the various takes on the fan-o-matic style restructurings but the basic idea is that Luke went back to Dagobah and completed his training with Yoda and his first scene is Yoda's death (some versions have him at the beginning but most still start with Vader) later we see Luke land on Tatooine and his conversation with Ben takes place either in his hut or outside (seeing as it would almost impossible to film the sabre construction scene it's implied to take place before or after this scene).

The droids set out the next morning.

There aren't many places where you could put Vader contacting Luke into the Death Star scenes so the ideal place would be before he arrives at the station (which explains my suggestion).

If the film was cut along the lines of the theatrical cut it could be put as Tydirium approaches the Executor.

fishmanlee is Doug Piranha :D

Sarcasm requires a target or victim, I fail to see one.

Perhaps you meant rhetorical?

fishmanlee said:

the thing is it wasnt a dream it was more like in empire when lukes on the falcon and vaders on the executor
and he says "Son, Come with me"

I got that fishmanlee, I was refering to the notion of having flashbacks while Vader is pondering what to do while Palpatine is killing Luke.

Ressurrecting that idea would be more difficult because you'd have to pull the material from elsewhere.

It could be made as an interesting bridge between Luke leaving Dagobah and Vader arriving at the Death Star if someone put the scenes that way around.

fishmanlee said:

ig-88 is a droid and is he a slave?

 

Going by the films alone I guess he is (the EU makes him out to be some sort of Robot Che Guevara/Spartacus but that comes from the more silly end of that mythos) just because we aren't told who is owner is doesn't mean he hasn't got one.

I like the fact that his head was one of the drink dispensers from the Cantina in ANH turned upside down.

Darth Lars said:

There is one addition in the trailer that I find a little bit silly, though. That is that the Echo Base gun turret shoots after the Snowspeeders after they have passed it.

• The gun turret fires very close to where you would extrapolate the snowspeeders to fly.
  

• The snowspeeders have yet some time to reach the AT-AT walkers. So, the AT-AT's would still be quite far from the gun turret. Right?
  

The turrets may have a longer range than the guns on the speeders, Luke only concludes that the armour is too strong for them to penetrate with blaster fire after the first few runs.

So the turrets firing isn't silly from the Rebels point of view as they hope it's clearing a path for the Speeders to attack.

The problem isn't that there were dream sequences but the manner of them.

Luke's vision in the cave is a form of dream sequences but it has the symbolic twisted logic of a dream (more of a visionquest).

The dreams in ROTS lacked that essential dreamlike visionquest quality.

If someone could revisit the idea of Anakin's dream by going back to key sequences and giving them a Dagobah cave style make over I wouldn't mind.

The same goes with Vader having some sort of vision in ROTJ.

Just having a clip show happen in the middle of the action is out of place and stating the obvious without any elegance or leaving any room for ambiguity.

fishmanlee said:

oh and about the blue saber thing i meant as a bonus feature like a deleted scene or something

I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who could do that for you, making the blade slim down however is a lot of effort whatever the colour is.

Something went wrong with Mel around the time of Blazing Saddles (which is very over-rated) if you look at The Producers, Young Frankenstein and to a lesser extent Silent Movie and High Anxiety, it's hard to believe that the same guy ended up doing Life Stinks, Men In Tights and that Dracula spoof which was so bad I can't even be bothered to remember the title.

Everything about Young Frankenstein just works and it's reverentially close to it's source material in a way that Spaceballs really couldn't be (Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman aren't in it either). Mel understood the films he was referencing in Young Frankenstein but Spaceballs seems to be a spoof made by someone who doesn't really get the films he is sending up.

As for the ROTJ Executor Bridge, I think the main problem is that they had taken down and got rid of the antechambers off the corridor if those could be reinstated using footage from ESB the shield monitor console could be moved to there and we could avoid having a computer terminal in the middle of a walkway.

Move the scene to this location :

It might make sense if the the TIEs were shooting at the asteroids and not at the Falcon, Vader wants the ship and her crew alive but the TIE pilots might need to clear a path through the rocky chaos to try and keep up with her (they do lose a lot of ships smacking into the things).

Possibly part of the reason why the laser blasts might not sit right is for the same reason why there shouldn't be thousands of fighters shooting the hell out of the Falcon as it escapes Bespin, Vader doesn't want them dead (he underlines this to the Bounty Hunters he hires).

Clearing obstacles is another matter.

fishmanlee said:

but why the "much like your father's" line in JEDI?

Because it's like (as in being a lightsabre) but not the same, he didn't say, "exactly like your father's", besides that observation would still stand if Luke's blade was blue, Vader's blade is red (or pink on the DVD's) and the hilt is completely different.

And that's telling because though both are Skywalkers and Jedi, Luke pulls back from temptation.

fishmanlee said:

oh and as a deleted scene or something restore lukes blue saber in jedi!

I'm not too keen on that, I like the fact that Luke's sabre is similar to Ben's but unique, it signals that he is no longer just following in the footsteps of his idealised dream of what his father was but is a man in his own right and a Jedi in the mold of Obi-Wan but new (green is the colour of spring and re-birth).

I realise that is just a romantic interpretation of a piece of hardware but Vader does make a point of the new weapon and the skill needed to construct it.

ROTJ needs to clutch onto whatever mythic unique qualities it has.

fishmanlee said:

i wonder if some of the deleted scenes from ROTJ be restored? (the rancor grate scene/the darth vader contacting luke through a dream scene/ben's hut(cave) scene)

Some of us are working on the Ben Hut bit.

The Vader dream idea seems very workable.

vaderios said:

Bring more nude :)

See a test :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ9C9zw4n1I

-Angel

That's a great video mockup there angel.

The Golden Idol said:

I think it might work well if the ladies were holograms. Then there wouldn't be a problem with trying to match them into the footage.

Now that is a great idea.

The Golden Idol said:

Interesting idea, but don't you think the last pic is a bit mature for a Star Wars film? ;)

Max Reebo has been there from day one...oh I see what you mean ;-)

Actually she is wearing a full body leotard but that has vanished a bit in the motion blur, remember George says there is no underwear in outer space so perhaps she should have a bit of gaffer tape over the lady bumps.

Remember back to when I was posting that instead of a musical number Lapti Nek/Jedi Rocks should be replaced and the scene become more of a burlesque dance?

It would make the scene more like the debauched dance routines in old historical epics.

I've been playing around with the idea.

This could be achieved by filming more dancers and manipulating them to look alien (I know these look rather like Orion slave girls but that's not such a bad thing, at least they aren't bad puppets or CGI). Just as with using the 501st to swell the Stormtrooper numbers in the film, I'm sure there must be some dancing ladies on the convention circuit who would love to be in a Star Wars film. The piece of music playing in my head is Salome's Dance from the Blade Runner soundtrack:

ben_danger said:

what if (to be super extravigant) after the a wing hits the bridge, you see imperial officers being sucked out of the bridge into space, which then moves into an extablishing shot of the battle....(ok ive been watching too much star trek.:P)

Or Battlestar Galactica (when that show was on...sob....people were spaced almost every week) plenty of elements to be pulled, altered and placed in there.

GhostAlpha26 said:

Trailer looked good.

one thing, the scene with Han riding the tantaun with the new background looks cartoonish. He is covering too much ground it seems like.

He has a lot of ground to cover in a very short time (it takes the snowspeeders a while to find them in the morning) so presumably Tauntauns are swift beasties otherwise Luke would be dead and Boba Fett would be Lando's coffee table ;-)

If the shot looks fake at all it's not the new background but the original model that's the problem and there is only so much you can do with a stop motion element (it does look a lot smoother now).

I'm posting a link here to GoodMusician's edit thread, he's edit will not be a radical story shake up but he has done some amazing changes which might inspire people who post on this thread regularly.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/My-Episode-III-Re-Edit/post/360965/#post360965

I posted this in response to a few of the sequences he has put up and I'm repeating it here as I was advocating more radical changes.

I would be even more bold with cutting away the the more silly aspects of Palpatine/Sidious.

As the puppeter Ian McDiamid can't be beat as the mad raving drooling loon he is far less interesting.

I wish Lucas had come up with a different explanation of why Palpatine looks the way he does in ROTJ (it would have made so much more sense if that was his true face which is eaten away by the power he wields than a nasty accident with a lightning blow back.

Perhaps a Mr Hyde morph would work better?

Mace too could be cut down even more to make him genuinely surprised that Anakin has done the right thing in reporting Palpatine to him and even show respect for him. Later do we need to see him crying out so much (it doesn't seem like pain either more like Sithish rage)? Just have Anakin disarm him and then have Palpatine shoot him out of the window. The more sudden and violent the betrayal the more shocking for Anakin the aftershock. He is suddenly in too deep to step back from the abyss.

The battle droids really need shutting up and toning down, I'd rather have a real Anakin looking down a lift shaft twice as long than an obviously CGI droid hitting another while sounding like cartoon character.

GoodMusician said:

a more radical cut? Oh you mean like completely restructuring the films? Yea... I've seen some... I guess I'm just the kind of guy who prefers something a little more...cinematic.

Most people would hope to maintain the cinematic sweep (or put it in depending on your point of view) even if they are making really dramatic changes.

As for your edited sequences, the music (as one would expect) fits so much better, most of your restructuring decisions are very successful.

I would be even more bold with cutting away the the more silly aspects of Palpatine/Sidious.

As the puppeter Ian McDiamid can't be beat as the mad raving drooling loon he is far less interesting.

I wish Lucas had come up with a different explanation of why Palpatine looks the way he does in ROTJ (it would have made so much more sense if that was his true face which is eaten away by the power he wields and the less weird one was a mask, than a nasty accident with a lightning blow back).

Perhaps a Mr Hyde morph would work better?

Mace too could be cut down even more to make him genuinely surprised that Anakin has done the right thing in reporting Palpatine to him and even show respect for him. Later do we need to see him crying out so much (it doesn't seem like pain either more like Sithish rage)? Just have Anakin disarm him and then have Palpatine shoot him out of the window. The more sudden and violent the betrayal the more shocking for Anakin the aftershock. He is suddenly in too deep to step back from the abyss.

The battle droids really need shutting up and toning down, I'd rather have a real Anakin looking down a lift shaft twice as long than an obviously CGI droid hitting another while sounding like cartoon character. I'm going to copy this over to the Radical Redux Thread too because much of your editing choices are really worth looking at even if you are looking to really shake the films up.

Don't forget the relationship between droid and non-droid in the Star Wars universe is one of slavery.

Threepio and Artoo are well liked (on the whole) by their owner/masters but they are not considered much more than property.

Unless someone writes a droid Spartacus storyline into Episodes VII through to IX they (and the Clonetroopers) are slaves and would never be given medals (even by the so called good guys).

Asteroid-Man said:

Speaking of Ian McDiarmid, does anyone else think he kind of looks like a pidgeon?

I think he looks spookily like Dennis Potter:

Forgive my ignorance of the track titles but is the piece of music playing during Zhora's Snaketease available?

We only get a quick blast of it in the film but I would like it for something else I'm working on.

While we are talking about Vader's chestplate, while it's great to see the lights that Ady added I'm not sure if the right colour tones were used and they may require correction (the same goes for Artoo's light the blue light seems to be too green and not blue enough).

I would like to see the AOTC display lights added to the garage and (if the area appears in the film, which I'm not sure about) it would be nice if the family graveyard was put in as a little reminder of Anakin's mum and presumably his stepfather.