Bingowings

Wouldn't it just be easier (for Palpatine not for us) to blow up the temple with most of the celebrating Jedi inside it.

Imagine that huge structure coming down and the chaos in streets.

Palpatine could blame it on Rebel Senators who were backing the Seperatists.

Heaven's knows how it could be done but it would be very cinematic.

He could then cover up the Jedi purge by saying he is really fighting a Rebel Alliance.

We seem to be bouncing this idea across the threads (which is fine).

Perhaps the Padme dream could have the Palpatine line "You will die" from ROTJ but in a different context (and distorted) so it sounds like he is trying to save Padme from some terrible fate.

This would have it's pay off when he utters the lines in the final film.

shanerjedi said:

Well you could always take a pic of Padme and show some kind of visual that alludes to tragic outcome, but in a clever way that would only become apparent later.

Like have a "vision" where Anakin walks up to Shmi and tries to grab onto her but she shatters into shards of glass.

it doesn't have to look photoreal at all.

If you have any prequel vision ideas please post them on the other thread unless they have a part to play in an ESB or ROTJ edit but maybe something in the prequel dream could act as a trigger for Vader killing Palpatine. I suggested earlier adding the neckless he made as a boy into the sequence but maybe a little bit of the ROTJ scene could be in the Padme dream, seeding the breaking point for Vader earlier in the saga.

It would be a better way of doing the same thing.

I also had the idea of Leia running off to save Han from Jabba before Luke was ready some time back, this too could have been prompted by a vision she had but I have no idea of how to put that information on the screen.

Shmi smiling and welcoming Anakin home only to swallowed by sand would be good too (these visions would be a good way of putting Qui-Gon in as well as a voice like Obi-Wan's in ANH and ESB).

vaderios said:

Dreams and Flashbacks are not Star wars. I hope ady will get rid them once and for all :)

It worked well in AOTC. We never see his mother.

 

-Angel

Actually I've just commited the heresy of suggesting re-doing the visions in the prequels in the style of Luke's encounter in the cave over on the Radical Prequel Redux thread.

As I said the problem wasn't the dreams it was the clip show nature of them.

If someone could do a proper dream sequence like those that David Lynch does (and it works naturally) I'm all for it.

I remember as a kid finding the vision in the cave one of the most interesting bits of ESB.

Sure it doesn't have to be done but in a way the cave dream was a premonition not only of what Luke could become but what his father once was and had become and would soon reveal (it could be argued by some but not me, that the cave sequence could go too).

If something like that could be done with Anakin's mum and Padme (it could even be the same sequence that he only fully understands when Padme says something in ROTS) It might save the idea.

But I too don't like the idea of clips as flashbacks or flashforwards (doing a Godfather 2 film set is one thing but tacking on bits is something else and though it worked in Babylon 5 it doesn't really feel right in Star Wars).

Sometimes less is more, sometimes less is less, sometimes more is more.

The trick is to start out with more than you need and trim down until the story feels right.

So if someone can come up with a watchable approximation of an erstwhile lost scene I'm interested because that adds more options, it's not like Lucasfilm is going to open up the vaults and allow every element of these films out so we can work on them.

That's not the same thing as putting up lots of expositional dialogue and calling it story.

Some of the greatest pieces of cinema storytelling have had hardly any (if any, in the case of the silent era) dialogue.

It's also not the same as sticking every idea that pops into your head on screen just because you can.

However some edits (professional or amateur) don't quite work because there just isn't enough of the right material to fill in the gaps left when you take away the wrong material.

I remember back around the time of TPM some magazine carried a picture of a plain steel looking Fett helmet and armour which (like Jengo) had no dings or dents in it. No paint just shiny metal.

Did I dream it or does anyone else remember what I'm talking about?

On a different note it kind of came up over in the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread so I'm going to post it here.

A lot of people don't like the dreams/flashforwards/visions in ROTS and feel they are out of place in the Star Wars universe.

At the risk of being branded a heretic, the cave sequence in ESB is a form of dream/vision but it's done in a completely different way.

If we saw Anakin's dreams of his mother and Padme in a more stylised and dreamlike manner with symbolism and ambiguity (rather than just a clipshow with a wobbly distortion) like Luke's vision of his head inside Vader's mask would that be more acceptable?

I seem to remember that in the novelisation of AOTC Anakin dreamt of his mother turning into glass and shattering (or was that somewhere else?).

These could become mini-projects in their own right.

How could they be done?

It's our chance to put a bit of David Lynch into Star Wars all those years after he turned down ROTJ.

fishmanlee said:

it wouldnt?

there is alot of sound clips and stuff
i mean from yodas hut you could use some clips from there

It's not just the sound though, it's the vision too and it has to flow as a story and not feel forced, there might be some trimmings here and there but they would have to match up with all the other elements.

But if you can figure out a way to get it to work I would genuinely love to see it (as would a lot of people).

If you have the means try a rough cut of it yourself and the idea has legs there are people on here who would help you take it further.

fishmanlee said:

if followed the way it is in the "script" it would be RIGHT after death star in dissaray (sp?) (or the "The Emporer is not as forgiving as i am" scene

It couldn't fit there now because of the available footage which is why I suggested the places I did, the earliest would put it quite close.

It wouldn't be possible to totally reconstruct the early script forms but it may be possible to adapt key ideas like, Luke returning to Ben's Hut, the two Death Stars etc to fit into the existing footage and there have been a lot of suggestions along those lines if you track back (it's a fun thread to read and it links into older threads which are also brimming with ideas, well worth a read).

fishmanlee said:

would be kinda hard because its basicly part of the bens hut scene or the lightsaber construction cave if you will

I don't know if you have been following any of the various takes on the fan-o-matic style restructurings but the basic idea is that Luke went back to Dagobah and completed his training with Yoda and his first scene is Yoda's death (some versions have him at the beginning but most still start with Vader) later we see Luke land on Tatooine and his conversation with Ben takes place either in his hut or outside (seeing as it would almost impossible to film the sabre construction scene it's implied to take place before or after this scene).

The droids set out the next morning.

There aren't many places where you could put Vader contacting Luke into the Death Star scenes so the ideal place would be before he arrives at the station (which explains my suggestion).

If the film was cut along the lines of the theatrical cut it could be put as Tydirium approaches the Executor.

fishmanlee is Doug Piranha :D

Sarcasm requires a target or victim, I fail to see one.

Perhaps you meant rhetorical?

fishmanlee said:

the thing is it wasnt a dream it was more like in empire when lukes on the falcon and vaders on the executor
and he says "Son, Come with me"

I got that fishmanlee, I was refering to the notion of having flashbacks while Vader is pondering what to do while Palpatine is killing Luke.

Ressurrecting that idea would be more difficult because you'd have to pull the material from elsewhere.

It could be made as an interesting bridge between Luke leaving Dagobah and Vader arriving at the Death Star if someone put the scenes that way around.

fishmanlee said:

ig-88 is a droid and is he a slave?

 

Going by the films alone I guess he is (the EU makes him out to be some sort of Robot Che Guevara/Spartacus but that comes from the more silly end of that mythos) just because we aren't told who is owner is doesn't mean he hasn't got one.

I like the fact that his head was one of the drink dispensers from the Cantina in ANH turned upside down.

Darth Lars said:

There is one addition in the trailer that I find a little bit silly, though. That is that the Echo Base gun turret shoots after the Snowspeeders after they have passed it.

• The gun turret fires very close to where you would extrapolate the snowspeeders to fly.
  

• The snowspeeders have yet some time to reach the AT-AT walkers. So, the AT-AT's would still be quite far from the gun turret. Right?
  

The turrets may have a longer range than the guns on the speeders, Luke only concludes that the armour is too strong for them to penetrate with blaster fire after the first few runs.

So the turrets firing isn't silly from the Rebels point of view as they hope it's clearing a path for the Speeders to attack.

The problem isn't that there were dream sequences but the manner of them.

Luke's vision in the cave is a form of dream sequences but it has the symbolic twisted logic of a dream (more of a visionquest).

The dreams in ROTS lacked that essential dreamlike visionquest quality.

If someone could revisit the idea of Anakin's dream by going back to key sequences and giving them a Dagobah cave style make over I wouldn't mind.

The same goes with Vader having some sort of vision in ROTJ.

Just having a clip show happen in the middle of the action is out of place and stating the obvious without any elegance or leaving any room for ambiguity.

fishmanlee said:

oh and about the blue saber thing i meant as a bonus feature like a deleted scene or something

I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who could do that for you, making the blade slim down however is a lot of effort whatever the colour is.

Something went wrong with Mel around the time of Blazing Saddles (which is very over-rated) if you look at The Producers, Young Frankenstein and to a lesser extent Silent Movie and High Anxiety, it's hard to believe that the same guy ended up doing Life Stinks, Men In Tights and that Dracula spoof which was so bad I can't even be bothered to remember the title.

Everything about Young Frankenstein just works and it's reverentially close to it's source material in a way that Spaceballs really couldn't be (Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman aren't in it either). Mel understood the films he was referencing in Young Frankenstein but Spaceballs seems to be a spoof made by someone who doesn't really get the films he is sending up.

As for the ROTJ Executor Bridge, I think the main problem is that they had taken down and got rid of the antechambers off the corridor if those could be reinstated using footage from ESB the shield monitor console could be moved to there and we could avoid having a computer terminal in the middle of a walkway.

Move the scene to this location :

It might make sense if the the TIEs were shooting at the asteroids and not at the Falcon, Vader wants the ship and her crew alive but the TIE pilots might need to clear a path through the rocky chaos to try and keep up with her (they do lose a lot of ships smacking into the things).

Possibly part of the reason why the laser blasts might not sit right is for the same reason why there shouldn't be thousands of fighters shooting the hell out of the Falcon as it escapes Bespin, Vader doesn't want them dead (he underlines this to the Bounty Hunters he hires).

Clearing obstacles is another matter.

fishmanlee said:

but why the "much like your father's" line in JEDI?

Because it's like (as in being a lightsabre) but not the same, he didn't say, "exactly like your father's", besides that observation would still stand if Luke's blade was blue, Vader's blade is red (or pink on the DVD's) and the hilt is completely different.

And that's telling because though both are Skywalkers and Jedi, Luke pulls back from temptation.

fishmanlee said:

oh and as a deleted scene or something restore lukes blue saber in jedi!

I'm not too keen on that, I like the fact that Luke's sabre is similar to Ben's but unique, it signals that he is no longer just following in the footsteps of his idealised dream of what his father was but is a man in his own right and a Jedi in the mold of Obi-Wan but new (green is the colour of spring and re-birth).

I realise that is just a romantic interpretation of a piece of hardware but Vader does make a point of the new weapon and the skill needed to construct it.

ROTJ needs to clutch onto whatever mythic unique qualities it has.

fishmanlee said:

i wonder if some of the deleted scenes from ROTJ be restored? (the rancor grate scene/the darth vader contacting luke through a dream scene/ben's hut(cave) scene)

Some of us are working on the Ben Hut bit.

The Vader dream idea seems very workable.

vaderios said:

Bring more nude :)

See a test :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ9C9zw4n1I

-Angel

That's a great video mockup there angel.

The Golden Idol said:

I think it might work well if the ladies were holograms. Then there wouldn't be a problem with trying to match them into the footage.

Now that is a great idea.

The Golden Idol said:

Interesting idea, but don't you think the last pic is a bit mature for a Star Wars film? ;)

Max Reebo has been there from day one...oh I see what you mean ;-)

Actually she is wearing a full body leotard but that has vanished a bit in the motion blur, remember George says there is no underwear in outer space so perhaps she should have a bit of gaffer tape over the lady bumps.

Remember back to when I was posting that instead of a musical number Lapti Nek/Jedi Rocks should be replaced and the scene become more of a burlesque dance?

It would make the scene more like the debauched dance routines in old historical epics.

I've been playing around with the idea.

This could be achieved by filming more dancers and manipulating them to look alien (I know these look rather like Orion slave girls but that's not such a bad thing, at least they aren't bad puppets or CGI). Just as with using the 501st to swell the Stormtrooper numbers in the film, I'm sure there must be some dancing ladies on the convention circuit who would love to be in a Star Wars film. The piece of music playing in my head is Salome's Dance from the Blade Runner soundtrack: