TheBoost said:
Regardless of who the Jedi in the title refers to, Revenge is a conscious act, requiring intent. No one has that intent. One cant accidentally take revenge on someone.
I dunno. Luke had his ass beat down in ESB and he returned. Vader at one point stopped being a jedi, and apparently returned to being a jedi. It can be implyed that perhaps Luke restarts the Jedi order, or by the very act of confronting Vader he becomes a Jedi, hence the extinct Jedi return.
The word can refer to both the active seeking of retribution and the achievement of retribution.
Retribution was achieved regardless of it being sought or not so it can still be described as revenge.
It wasn't achieved by accident (in the sense of "Whoops! What a mishap! My actions have caused someone who has defeated me before to suffer a fatal fall"), it was not necessarily an outcome that was directly sought. Ben and Yoda wanted Vader and Palpatine to be removed from power and this was achieved in the form of a retributive outcome.
Going by the criteria you use all episodes of the saga after TPM could be called "Return Of The Astrodroid" ;-)
JasonN said:
Bingowings said:
The Jedi order possibly returns (though we see no on screen evidence) and does achieve revenge, though it may be argued it doesn't seek it.
The Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker both returns (from being lost in the Darth Vader personna) and achieves a revenge he actively sort.
Ok, the "Jedi" part I can maybe-kinda understand (though I still think revenge is outside of their ideals), but for the Anakin part, I must ask "He's getting revenge for what reason?"
All that we ever learn in the OT is that he was once a good man who was seduced by the Dark Side and turned on the Jedi Knights - there is no mention of him ever being seduced, manipulated, or tricked into the Dark Side by the Emperor personally or that he ever felt anger/remorse/sadness over his betray of the Jedi until he saw his son being attacked by the Emperor.
Bingowings said:
And none of these deductions require even looking at the prequel trilogy (though looking at them would make the Jedi Order seem more likely to be one to seek revenge than George Lucas would protest). They certainly do not hinge on the six part saga being pre-planned as delivered.
Yet you're specifically referencing the PT as a possible explanation to Vader's actions in ROTJ as a reason for him seeking revenge:
Bingowings said:
Anakln certainly has revenge on the man who tricked him into betraying and murdering his friends on the promise of saving his wife that his new powers drove him to destroy.
The Jedi as an order were reduced from thousands to just two and you might argue that they didn't seek revenge only the restoration of galactic freedom they certainly got it anyway....
.... Anakin kills Vader and Palpatine and he was planning to kill Palpatine for decades.
You have me on the reference to the prequels in my previous post but those references are not necessary to illustrate that Vader sought revenge specifically in the scene in where he kills Palpatine (something he planned to do from ESB onwards anyway) and that he achieved it.
Even in refering to the prequel trilogy the assertion doesn't require a lack of awareness of the unavoidable cobbled together nature of the six part saga as it currently stands.
If anything the attempts of the fan community to bring more structure and coherence to these films as a group is a testament to how unstructured and largely thrown together without due care most of these films were.
Hopefully the results of these discussions will lead many sets of edits (like your own) which actually feel like they were planned from the beginning.
