BillionaireHobo287

flametitan said:

Lord Haseo said:

Can you elaborate please.

Assuming that was Directed at me:
Minor bloodlines Spoilers, Read post at own Risk
Bloodlines is only 6 years or so Before TFA, and aside from Leia not being able to contact Luke there’s nothing to indicate Ben has turned. And difficulty in sending a message isn’t quite evidence of him being turned. So if Rey was being trained by Luke, then the false memories would be to erase her return to Jakku, or otherwise replace the last seven or eight years of her life with false Memories of Jakku, as she’d be thirteen when Bloodlines takes place.

Couldn’t Ben pretend not to be a dark side worshipper? Like Palpatine? I think Ben Solo is a much more tragic character if he has less agency and control over his actions(like if he was brainwashed at the ripe age of childhood). The guy’s crazier than a taco dancing on a jelly bean, and it makes you feel bad for him.

Despite what the prequels may have you believe, anything is possible with The Force!

How’s my Act 2?

Deleted

Swazzy said:

That was a pretty entertaining read, and likely will help me to hate a movie that’s not even out yet.

Are you flattering me or saying my post sucks? Either way I respect your opinion.

If it is the former, I’m not so sure I will surpass anything Rian Johnson could come up with. Guy’s a genius at creativity and originality.

If it is the latter, please tell me how I can improve my story.

Deleted

It would have been horrendous and not nearly as good as the Force Awakens. Only kids that would later grow nostalgia goggles would have enjoyed the movie. Sound familiar?

There are bits and pieces of how the movie would have been like. Luke’s children as children instead of adults (because bad acting from child actors is necessary [sarcasm]) would be the main characters, and the forbidden love thing likely would have played into the story with Luke as some Obi Wan type mentor. It would also be a weird inverse of Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace (see: star wars ring theory). R2D2 would have been revealed to be the storyteller of Star Wars at the end of the trilogy, and Star Wars’ reputation would have been entirely ruined. There probably would’ve been some sappy philosophical stuff too.

Can we get on topic? The last few pages are just racism and argueing about whether or not the Force Awakens is good. Talk about originality and how you would make the Force Awakens more original.

Dek Rollins said:

Well then why are you in a thread about TFA being more original?

Because I made this thread to prove a point to everybody, including myself, that JJ Abrams went in a good direction with the Force Awakens.

I don’t want to put someone down, but I haven’t seen a whole lot of good “original” ideas (making the bad guy look like a good guy, making a Star WARS movie with barely any WARS, etc.). I wanted to see if the people who did not like the Force Awakens could be better while being more original than Abrams, and I do NOT stand corrected. The Force Awakens is a great movie.

If you’re still worried about originality with Episode 8 and 9, I can tell you those are in great hands. There might be subversions in the Force Awakens we can’t even see yet because of Episode 8 and 9.

Dek Rollins said:

^You obviously didn’t understand the post, or you don’t fully understand Star Wars, or you don’t fully understand the matter at hand.

EDIT: Here are the preceding posts if you didn’t read them earlier in the thread:

John Doom said:

Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

At this point, there’s little variety in the heroes/villains of the SW franchise – especially the villains – and I’m bored with the monotony.

Do ya know what I think of this? It’s about time they stopped making Star Wars films. The OT doesn’t need a trilogy behind it and another in front. It was a complete story, and whatever wasn’t shown to you in the films was laid out in exposition, or implied, or simply left to imagination. I don’t want endless sequels coming after every fairytale that ends in “they all lived happily ever after”, because the story is finished. You can tell that SW is done because it’s boring now, unless you make it not a SW film, and I know I don’t want that.

I agree that the OT doesn’t need prequels nor sequels. Like me, you probably see SW from an artistic point of view, but Disney/LF want more, so here we go 😄

What didn’t I understand? You don’t want sequels to Star Wars because it will be more of the same, but everything is more of the same and to me, that isn’t a bad thing.

Dek Rollins said:

I stand by this:

Dek Rollins said:

John Doom said:

In any case, a solution for making better sequels was already found years ago: in a way, TESB was not a SW film (or at least not like the original SW), yet most of us love it. Why? Because it was well crafted, it was able to stay true to the original movie, while expanding it with new concepts: a perfect balance.
So it was possible. I just wish they’d kept trying going into that bold direction for the ST.

The thing is, though, Empire still kept the same characters intact, and along with Jedi, it finished a furthered story of our heroes’ fight against the Empire. We still had Luke and Vader, and the same specific conflict to finish, so it didn’t get old in the three films that it took. In the ST we have new characters to fill the same old roles, and a new conflict to emulate the same old conflict, so it feels oddly contrived, and not very original, and it’s getting old. From my point of view the ST is evi… I mean it’ll be impossible to make the ST work because of this problem.

What problem? I can understand if you are talking about JJ Abrams’ take (though I definetly don’t agree), but the way you word it is as if any sequel trilogy will be terrible even if it has some of the best writing, cinematography, special effects, and acting of the series (like the Force Awakens).

If you look at all movies in the flat closed-minded way naysayers look at the Force Awakens, nothing is original.

Originality is subjective. Those who have have never seen Flash Gordon or Hidden Fortress or read a space opera think the original Star Wars is extremely original, the first of its kind! This is as far from the truth as you can get. Star Wars was designed to be unoriginal. It’s a mix of everthing George Lucas loved and put into the context of Joseph Campbell’s monomyth, the common story behind all stories.

What JJ Abrams did is exactly what Lucas did : take what he loved and mix it all together. That’s why there’s stuff from all of the original trilogy in the Force Awakens and why the original Star Wars has stuff from Westerns, samurai movies, Science Fiction, and every genre you can think of.

But even in the Force Awakens and the original Star Wars, there’s little differences from what it was meant to copy. This is the only way originality can be objective. If you are subjective, nothing is original. If you are objective, everything is original

To me, originality barely matters at all because trying to be original lead to horrible films and great films so it’s barely a positive at all and if it is, it’s likely subjective.

Darth Lars said:

What I would do…

I would not take a crap on the EU, and on the EU fans. No matter what your opinion is on the EU, for decades the EU has been a huge part of Star Wars franchise and Star Wars fandom – some times a book or video game has been the biggest Star Wars event in that year.
I would take the fundamentals: the extended Skywalker/Organa family, Luke trained Jedi, there have been warlords and there is a sleeping Imperial “Remnant” out there – and leave almost everything else unsaid. Some events in books and video games could have happened: that should be up to the individual’s imagination. The new trilogy should validate – or invalidate – as little as possible.
The clean slate of Lucasfilm’s new continuity has angered many long-term fans. Instead, respecting that the EU exists would, I think, even help sales of older EU items (not that I have not seen a recent resurgence in interest for the EU, but it could be bigger) and help bring the original and sequel trilogies together.

But yes:

• The new films has to be primarily about new characters. Not about the ones in the old films and especially not about the ones in the EU.
• A new threat. And yes, it should involve the dark side, but it is unnecessary to have it be spoken out in the first scene that dark-side practitioners are behind it.
• “Hero’s journey”, like Rey’s (in broad strokes)
• Jedi are decimated. Not necessarily killed off off-screen until only Luke remains… before the movie even starts.
• A locale with exotic aliens. Not necessarily a new cantina.
• Han dies.
• The end scene is an emotionally strong but slow scene with a wide-angle shot, but static, not circling.
• And absolutely, no superweapon. No DS3. Period.

IsanRido said:

-Starkiller base ought to be a decoy, “These rebels will think we’re stupid enough to build yet another Death Shhtar!”. Ideally they could come up with a more clever way to be threating.

Interesting idea. Maybe the Republic would throw a large portion of their fleet at it, and then instead of firing – the planet or the sun explodes in a supernova, crippling the Republic’s military forces.
It would serve the same end as destroying the Hosnian system did in TFA but provide more opportunities for drama:

• Lead-up to the fight, showing the tension before the battles. Like in ANH, ESB and ROTJ but which TFA lacked. Personally, I think those moments were very emotionally important in the original trilogy.
• Fanatic Neo-Imp suicide-bomber type “pressing the button”.
• The turning point when it has dawned on the Rep forces what is about to happen.
• Remnant/First order officers when they understand that they have been led to die.
• Show the aftermath of the defeat: people trying to survive. (also something TFA lacked because the planets just popped out of existence)
• Remnant/First order propaganda after the event, blaming the Republic and cheering the “sacrifice” of the dead Neo-imps troops. That would show the ruthlessness of the Neo-Imp leaders.

… but yeah, some people would call that a rehash of ROTJ’s “It’s a trap” moment despite the new angles. 😉

Lord Haseo said:

As a mixed man I really don’t know how to respond to this but all I’ll say is that characters should transcend race. Finn for example doesn’t strike me as belonging to any ethnicity; to me he’s just a person.

Here here! Star Wars should stand above race-issues. White human, black human, green goblin, tall hairy sasquatch, crustacean, all on the same footing.
It would have been bold move if they had made Rey or Finn be another race than human - it would have been less practical with all the makeup but actors in TV-series seem to manage. I think they chose not to because they did not want to be reminded of the failure that was Jar-Jar.

BTW. Before TFA came out, I heard a rumour that the movie was going to show Stormtrooper taking off their helmets – and some of them would be of other races than human.

The EU is popular, but writing the sequel trilogy within its canon is creative suicide. It’s better to nuke it and have as much creative freedom as possible instead of having to worry about contradicting something in the Jedi Prince series. I know the EU has some gems, and you can still read those. They are still being printed.

Man, this thread got quiet. Think again before criticizing the Force Awakens of its originality!

LuckyGungan2001 said:

I don’t want a PT reboot, because I know that the OT will come next. It also confuses things. What if a young child wants to have a marathon, so he watches original Episode I, rebooted Episode II, and then both cuts of Episode III because he thinks they are two separate films? It would just mess everything up.

Kids aren’t that stupid. If they are confused, they Google search. A kid stupid enough to do that probably can’t even walk. You never hear any confusion about the various superhero reboots over the years. If a kid is young enough, there will be no confusion as the rebooted prequels will be the only prequels they know. Lucas’ prequels will be forgotten by non superfans same as the Ewok movies and the Holiday Special. Happy ending for everyone!

Lord Haseo said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

SPOOLER ALERT

Supreme Leader Snoke is… Yoda!

Evidence

1. Yoda and Snoke have never appeared together.
2. Yoda has never been critical of Supreme Leader Snoke.
3. Supreme Leader Snoke’s true size has intentionally never been shown.

lol to Supreme Leader Snoke theories

I hope you’re just joking here. I mean the “Snoke is Vader” theory is wild enough but this is lunacy.

I am joking but I have seen a theory like this.

SPOOLER ALERT

Supreme Leader Snoke is… Yoda!

Evidence

1. Yoda and Snoke have never appeared together.
2. Yoda has never been critical of Supreme Leader Snoke.
3. Supreme Leader Snoke’s true size has intentionally never been shown.

lol to Supreme Leader Snoke theories

MalàStrana said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:
It helps explain many of JJ Abrams directing choices for the Force Awakens (practical effects).

What ? Most of EpI is practical effects. Do you think Maz is practical effet ?

Sorry. I was too lazy to come up with something else and besides the Phantom Menace has the worst looking Blu Ray of the series, mainly due to the CGI.

Smithers said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:
and besides this is my thread.

Yeah, he’s only LETTING you on this playground. Take THAT!!

I didn’t mean it like that. I had a PT reboot listed as a spinoff in the OP which means a PT reboot is a spinoff and therefore relevant to the thread. MalaStrana (sorry if I mispelled) said a PT reboot was irrelevant.

MalàStrana said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

MalàStrana said:

TV’s Frink said:
There’s no need to normalize anything, they’re already on a scale of 100. People prefer the OT (with TFA on par with ROTJ) and are meh at best on the PT. Scores in the 60’s are not good.

The normalization is used to compare results within a same batch, as a whole “SW perception”. Does not change too much thing anyway.

Most people don’t care for the prequels. Deal with it. How relevant is comparing them to the original trilogy when we’re discussing rebooting the prequels? Not relevant at all.

Besides making TESB 100 is innacurate as there will always be some (very few) that would not give it 10/10 and instead 9/10.

Most people don’t care ? That’s hardly the issue dude. PT is canon, deal with it yourself.

edit: thread title is “WHAT OTHER SPINOFFS SHOULD DISNEY MAKE?”
How relevant is discussing about rebooting the PT ? Not relevant at all.

I am dealing with it. People were saying that there would be backlash against a PT reboot when data shows otherwise. Not really an issue, more like support for my arguement.

I consider a PT reboot a spinoff as it would not be that tied to the main canon Skywalker saga (being non canonical and all). So yeah, pretty relevant, and besides this is my thread.

I have the perfect order for newcomers :

1. STAR WARS Despecialized Edition
2. The Empire Strikes Back Despecialized Edition
3. Return of the Jedi Despecialized Edition
4. The Phantom Menace until Anakin appears (never watch more of the prequels and even The Clone Wars TV show)
5. The Force Awakens legally

Confused on why such a terrible useless movie would ever be included in a Star Wars marathon?

Exactly because the Phantom Menace is terrible and useless. It helps explain many of JJ Abrams directing choices for the Force Awakens (practical effects). Ommiting Anakin and the other 2 prequels helps keep the mysteries that made the original trilogy so immersive.

MalàStrana said:

TV’s Frink said:
There’s no need to normalize anything, they’re already on a scale of 100. People prefer the OT (with TFA on par with ROTJ) and are meh at best on the PT. Scores in the 60’s are not good.

The normalization is used to compare results within a same batch, as a whole “SW perception”. Does not change too much thing anyway.

Most people don’t care for the prequels. Deal with it. How relevant is comparing them to the original trilogy when we’re discussing rebooting the prequels? Not relevant at all.

Besides making TESB 100 is innacurate as there will always be some (very few) that would not give it 10/10 and instead 9/10.

joefavs said:

I don’t see why films about the Sith Empire or the Mandolorian Wars would need to take the place of the PT though. Those could easily exist without splitting the continuity. I just feel like the last thing Disney wants to do is complicate the timeline. They’re all about bringing in new fans right now, and introducing alternate continuities would be a bad move for that. Better to just build around the prequels and reference them as little as possible.

I can’t remember if it was here or the AV Club, but at some point I heard someone say that their personal canon was that the prequels are factually accurate, but that the films themselves as we know them are essentially in-universe B-movies of the actual events that took place. That’s pretty much the attitude I’ve adopted since reading that, and I’m fine with sticking with it.

Like I said, series reboot all the time now! If people can keep track of all the superhero universes (there’s at least 10 film universes based on Marvel heroes and that’s not even counting DC), they can keep track of two Star Wars universes (three if you count Legends but that’s pretty obscure now).

SilverWook said:

Believe it or not, Disney makes money off the prequels. Prequel toys are still being made, and the characters appear at the parks. So why would they mess with that?

They can make money off of BOTH prequels. That’s double the money, YO!

DuracellEnergizer said:

Yes, 'cause a blue/green lightsaber and a blue/green lightsaber alone would be all it would take to make a bad guy indistinquishable from a good guy. Things like body language, vocal inflection, general attitude and the actions they partake in – those things don’t matter once goddamn iota.

Oh, but I forgot – only little children under the age of five watch SW movies.

[JEDIT]

Oh, this guy is just oh so warm, friendly, and inviting,

At least he’s wearing black armor and not white robes like what’s-his-name suggested.

EDIT: I’ve to come to a conclusion. The only way Episode 7 (discounting Episodes 8 and 9, which crazy potential for originality) can be completely original is if it is set a lot more than 30 years after Return of the Jedi. Would you want to sacrifice characters like Kylo Ren and seeing Luke again for a more original story that is not guarenteed to be better?

IsanRido said:

“He also wore black. Do you want Kylo to wear something else just to emphasize the unnecessary points of originality?”
Originality/subversion alone doesn’t do anything. However, if we’re dealing with a good film that features competent writing, direction and acting, would you think its quality be hurt if you saw the villain wearing white robes and using a blue lightsaber?

Yes however little. It would be a unnecesarily misleading and confusing design choice. Why make the bad guy look so much like the good guys? It’s not even really that original and detracts from the story.

EDIT : Starkiller Base does serve a purpose. It makes the First Order a humongous threat and gives Poe Dameron something to do in the third act.

I think the cross guard lightsaber should stay. Red is used by villains because it’s an aggressive color. It generally works when designing a villain. Unlike Lucas’ prequel Sith, it makes sense for Kylo Ren to carry a lightsaber because he was once a Jedi (the Emperor specifically called the light saber a “JEDI weapon” not a Sith weapon). The crossguard makes it more similar to swords of religous knights too. If Vader was a samurai Nazi enforcer then Kylo Ren is a religous crusader knight.

I don’t know about using espionage and mirroring the Cold War. This is Star WARS (emphasis on WARS). The Cold War was called the Cold War because there wasn’t much of the usual kinds of battles where people shoot each other. Who’s going to be the hero of the sequel trilogy? A sports player? “Oh look out! It’s Kylo Ren, space Russia’s deadliest chess player!”

joefavs said:

Prequel reboot is never in a million years going to happen, and it probably shouldn’t either. Strange as it may sound to jerks like us here on this forum, the PT has a sizable following, and there’s a whole generation of kids who grew up on the Clone Wars cartoon. The idealistic side of my brain says live and let live, those kids have as much a right to their preferred Star Wars as I do to mine, however misguided that preference may be. The cynical side says Disney’s not going to go out of their way to piss off that prime tween merch-buying demographic, especially when it’s so much easier to please everyone by ignoring the prequels and playing in their shiny new sequel-era sandbox. Honestly, now that we’re getting more movies, I don’t even care that the prequels are bad anymore. There are so many potential subjects out there that are so much more interesting to me than Anakin Skywalker again.

I don’t see the problem. If they go with what I’m saying (making a new non-canon universe separate from George Lucas’ canon universe), nobody’s going to be angry. Reboots happen all the time now! It’s not like the prequels are going to be edited and altered (coughSpecial Editionscough). They’re still there, and if for whatever reason, there’s still people blinded by nostalgia goggles, they can watch their stupid prequels.

Even if people do get angry for whatever strange reason, the majority will be very happy.

The rebooted prequels don’t have to and shouldn’t be about Anakin Skywalker. They can be about the Mandalorian Wars, the Sith Empire, etc. The Star Wars universe could be so much richer than what we actually got. People pretend that the prequels expand and enrich the Star Wars universe, but the prequels do it in all the wrong ways. Because of the prequels, not everybody can be a Jedi hero or use the Force. Yoda wasn’t wise, he just had a bunch of midichlorians. Yes, the prequels did lead to better stories like Knights of the Old Republic, but we would have gotten the same if not a better result if Lucasfilm just decided to remove the block on the past of the original trilogy long before any of Lucas’ prequels actually came out, letting better writers than George Lucas go crazy with the Clone Wars.

Since that didn’t happen, writers have to go out of their way to work around Lucas’ prequels. Why do you think every new dark side user now isn’t a Sith or called “Darth”? (though they are called Kylo Ren, Ventress, Supreme Leader Snoke, Savage Opress, Grand Inquisitor, etc.)

Reboot and everything will be better.