BillionaireHobo287

Objectively and mathematically correct viewing order for Star Wars:

1. Star Wars (1977)
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Attack of the Clones
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. The Star Wars Holiday Special
6. The Godfather Part II
7. Naruto

…

…

XD lol just kidding bruh. The true great viewing order for Star Wars is:

1. Despecialized Edition Original Trilogy
2. YouTube video(s) showing why the prequels suck
3. The Force Awakens
4. Rest of the sequel trilogy
5. Anthology/A Star Wars Story trilogy
6. Whatever Star Wars movies are released after 2020

The suckiness of the prequels is neccessary to understand why the Force Awakens was made the way it was made, so a YouTube montage/torture video or the RedLetterMedia reviews should be shown to people after the original trilogy.

Never make a newcomer watch the prequels though. EVER.

1. Despecialized/Unaltered Original Trilogy
2. The Force Awakens
3. Episode 8: The Knights of Ren (my story treatment is available at Lord Haseo’s thread, “What do you want to happen in the rest of the ST?”, pages five and onward. So far the story has been relatively 75-80% well received. Twists that seem like terrible ideas don’t end the way you think they will so please be patient.)
4. Episode 9: Rise of the First Order (haven’t even begun to write this one, but the title is perfect for the story I have in mind)
5. Probably maybe all the future Star Wars movies that will be released (hard to fail as bad as the prequels; if Rian Johnson’s episodes 8 and 9 are better than mine, I will surrender and admit my stories are crappy fan fiction)
6. Probably the Tales of the Jedi comics
7. Probably Lost Stars

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Dek Rollins said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

The first link starts off so unproffesional that even if I did post there, nobody would care.

We aren’t business men on this forum. We’re nerds and geeks.

That’s a generalization. I mean that thread starts off with a misspelled wall of text then people talking about the thread’s obscurity! Just edited my second post in this thread, so please read it.

Can we talk about stories and not whether or not this thread should exist?

TV’s Frink said:

Sigh.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Rebooting-the-Prequel-Trilogy/id/15226

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Two-Words-for-Disney-PREQUEL-REBOOT/id/14783

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Do-you-think-Disney-will-remake-the-prequels/id/46497

JEDIT: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-New-Thread-Thread/id/12146

The first link starts off so unproffesional that even if I did post there, nobody would care.

The second one is acceptable, though, but kinda old and Anakin-centric. I wanted to make a thread where people discussed more about the past of Star Wars rather than Anakin and Obi Wan’s past.

The third one straight up doesn’t count. It’s about whether Disney will reboot the prequels and not about what should happen in the reboot trilogy.

Besides, do you have nothing better to do, Frink?

Prequel trilogy reboot is inevitable. Too much money to be made. Here’s what I wanna see in the reboot trilogy(abbrieviated RT):

• Does not cover any backstory mentioned in the original trilogy, so as to not make the characters less compelling and the setting less immersive.
• Takes place thousands of years before A New Hope. Yoda is not even born yet.
• Force is all-inclusive. Everyone from babies to toasters and droids can become masters of the Force.
• Sith do not have the title, Darth.

STAR WARS EPISODE 1: THE SITH WARS

Long long ago in a galaxy far far away

Years ago, the peaceful monks, Jedi, waged war across the galaxy in an attempt to convert everyone into a user of the Force

Many Jedi realized that these crusades were against Jedi teachings, which separated the Jedi into warriors and peacekeepers.

The warriors grew tired of their own religion’s limitations, so they created a new one: THE SITH. The Sith created many empires and regularly compete against each other for the title of GALACTIC EMPEROR OF ALL…

THE CHARACTERS

Heroes:

Mark Sunbutcher - Once a Jedi warrior who soon became disillusioned with war and the Sith. Despite his own wishes to remain peaceful, Mark realizes that if he does not end the Sith Wars, nobody will.

L7-42 - Mark’s droid Jedi master. Due to intense discrimination because of his droid status, L7 is as jaded, sarcastic, and cynical as they come, but he is surpisingly masterful in his usage of the Force and following of the Jedi teachings.

Tan Leviticus - Once followed the teachings of the Jedi, until her own inactivity and passiveness led to the destruction of her world. Out of her naivety and rage, she led a one man rebellion against the Sith until she was aided Mark. She realizes that she is becoming eerily close to the dark side, so she constantly attempts to seem shy and composed even if she’s a whirlwind of hate and guilt on the inside.

Albert Drew - Snobby bored detective placed in charge of arresting Leviticus though he later joins our other heroes for fun basically.

Zenith Prime - The most feared and powerful Sith in the galaxy. She manipulates entire Sith Empires to slaughter each other to further her plans to become Galactic Emperor which causes great trouble for our heroes.

NOTES: I based the Sith and the Jedi Crusades on Christianity while I kept the Jedi on their original trilogy Taoism and Zen Buddhism roots. I realized that the original trilogy was sorely lacking in the crime genre department, so I added the snobby detective, Albert Drew. Mark and Leviticus’ stories just seemed natural for the Sith Wars, while the wars themselves and L7 came out of the need to make the original trilogy’s all-inclusive Force as compelling as possible.

That’s all I have lol.

TV’s Frink said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen The Bunny™ transcript … a long time.

We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven’t you?

I have. One time I almost thought TFA was worse than the prequels. But then the fever broke.

It’s a reference to the original Psycho movie. Haven’t seen it? Watch it, but ignore the rest of the franchise. Movie starts slow but gets better, and it’s more of a thriller than a horror movie.

Darth Lucas said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

Darth Lucas said:

I’ve thought about this a lot. And I realized that had the prequels not focused on anakin and Obi-wan, or shown in some capacity the fall of Darth Vader, people would have been immensely disappointed. Even if they were great films, we all maybe would have liked them, but been disappointed that we didn’t get what we had all been hoping for and imagining for 20 years.

Exactly. My approach can be a downer upon announcement and not so much later on, but the other ruins another set of movies and people’s imaginations.

It doesn’t need to ruin anyone’s imagination. Yeah the prequels sucked, but if they were done well they very well could have expanded the imagination of the audience and given them new backstory and lore to imagine while enriching the experience of the ot. Now the prequels failed at this is most regards, but it could have been done.

Please read all my posts. Everything I can argue has already been written in this thread.

Screw it! I’m writing a Sith Wars prequel trilogy alongside my sequel trilogy! You’ll see how wrong you guys are.

DuracellEnergizer said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen The Bunny™ transcript … a long time.

We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven’t you?

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This is the treatment completely cut down to minimize spoilers for the actual script, which is down below.

The movie starts with a flashback to Ben Solo’s tortured childhood. Ben is being bullied (and it isn’t the first time), which causes Ben to lash out and use the Force for the first time by force pushing a bully against a wall. Terrified of his new power, he runs away to somewhere where there are no people and begins to cry.

Suddenly, Snoke appears, much less hideously scarred and corrupted by the dark side than in Episode VII, and comforts Ben by telling him stories of the “peace bringer” Darth Vader (seems legit; yeah, Snoke is brainwashing Ben) and the Knights of Ren, who long ago mastered ressurection and immortality and created an Empire that lasted centuries.

Flashforward. Ben’s new Knights of Ren (the ones from Rey’s vision) are fleshed out. There’s a clonetrooper desperately trying to outrun his own short lifespan called Linas Ren, a Mandalorian who just wants to fight forever, a mad scientist called Nexo Ren, and some other scum.

Kylo Ren eventually completes his training and is declared a Sith.

Having tracked down the Millenium Falcon, The Knights of Ren prepare to attack Luke Skywalker and Rey, who are on Ahch-To.

Meanwhile, Poe Dameron lands on an urban planet where, to fill the power vacuum created by the New Republic’s destruction, factions are fighting for galactic conquest.

Poe offers the alliance of the Resistance to all factions, but all factions refuse to bring peace and another bloody battle breaks out, which Poe barely escapes.

Cut to the First Order’s new base on the dark temple planet, Solaris IX. Captain Phasma marches through Solaris IX’s esoteric and ancient halls to the chamber of Supreme Leader Snoke. Hux is handcuffed and kneeling on the floor.

Supreme Leader: Captain. My apprentices have betrayed me. Will you succeed at supplying me with a replacement?

Captain Phasma: Most assuredly. FN-2187 is a prime candidate. Aside from its sensitivity to the Force, it now has emotional attachments and has given itself a new name.

Supreme Leader: The General has failed me. Under his weak leadership, a stormtrooper revolted and became the end of Starkiller Base. Kill him.

Captain Phasma: As you wish.

Hux(desperate): Please, Phasma! I can serve under you!

Captain Phasma loads a blaster and shoots Hux dead.

Supreme Leader: What is your plan, General?

General Phasma: The Resistance has failed gaining allies and is severely vulnerable. An attack on their base must be imminent. “Finn”, as it likes to call itself, will be our secret weapon.

Is anybody else going to post their takes on Episode VIII and IX? The more, the merrier I say.

Edit: Tips from that guy who has been posting Episode VIII bits the last two pages:

1. Focus on the emotion of the story and the journey of the characters NOT lightsaber colors and superficial stuff like that.

Why do you think the OT characters are so good? The characters need to change. Luke starts off a slightly spoiled inexperienced farm boy in Episode IV and ends a badass peaceful Jedi in Episode VI. Leia pretends to hate Han at first but learns to be more in touch with her emotions. Han starts off a selfish rogue but learns to be selfless.

You also need to make those changes organic. Look at Anakin in the prequels! First, he’s a Gary Stu darling kid, then he’s a whiny stalker brat, then later a crazy child murderer, and lastly a badass Sith lord with little to no context for the changes. So Anakin destroys planets and murders children because… he had a dream his girlfriend was going to die?

Think of the characters as people. What would you do and say if you had their histories and personalities? What histories would the characters need to have to act the way they do? (Not to brag or anything, but I’m a little proud of my motivations for Kylo Ren)

P.S. If you are following my Episode VIII, I can tell you the characters are going to change drastically in Act III.

2. Don’t overexplain the setting. Part of what makes Star Wars so great is that (before the prequels) it doesn’t bother explaining stuff it doesn’t need to, and that makes the world seem more natural. Knowledge of the setting should flow organically or be implied through the characters’ dialouge. Imagine if two adults explained what World War I was mid-conversation for no reason.

3. Let the characters make the decisions for you. Channel their histories and personalities into every little thing they say and do. Don’t force something dumb like a Force Switcheroo where Rey becomes evil and Kylo Ren becomes good because it’s your stupid neat idea.

4. Don’t assume the audience immediately relates to your characters. Work for their emphathy and sympathy. Rey works in the Force Awakens because she’s an underdog who is good at what she does and it’s admirable. Poe works because he’s just a funny good guy to everybody, including stormtroopers. Finn works because he’s just a normal guy forced to do something he realizes he doesn’t want to do.

5. Always have the characters move the plot forward and not the other way around. If your main characters (not the side characters) are too reactive, your audience will not admire them and will just get bored. Even the character deciding to do nothing despite peer pressure counts as moving the plot forward.

The only exception is when you want the lack of agency to make seemingly bad people more tragic. (like Ben being brainwashed)

Swazzy said:

Lord Haseo said:

I think he’s saying your write up is so good that he’ll end up hating the actual film because it might not be as good.

^^^^^^

Eh, well, I kinda wish I developed the (non romantic) Finn and Poe storylines more, but rewriting would leave people in the dark when I start my Act III.

Before I start my Act III, I do want to bust what I think is a misconception about The Force.

That starting down the path of the dark side will mean you will be evil forever. Yoda says that if you start using the dark side, it will forever dominate your destiny. It was the main reason people thought Luke was going to be evil in Episode VII. Luke did start down the dark path, and he paid the price: he was inedaquate as a teacher, his students were slaughtered, and he’s been wracked with guilt since, but Luke is clearly not evil. Vader became the second evilest guy in the galaxy, and because of that, he redeemed himself by saving Luke from the Emperor at the cost of his own life. Basically, doing something dark side-ish will bite you in the butt later on but won’t mean that you are evil.

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CWBorne said:

To me there is a freedom and opportunity in how one answers those questions. With Anakin and the original trilogy, all we know is that he was seduced by Palpatine and fell to the dark side, with some general comments about his friendship with Kenobi and status as a pilot. A good story can take those very base elements and craft an interesting examination of characters and settings with it. The story of Vader becomes what makes a good man go bad, same as what makes a Republic turn into an Empire.

Look at something like Godfather Part II, which while only part prequel is brilliant at giving Vito Corleone a detailed history which defines not only his character, but also serves as an effective contrast to that of Michael’s. The base concepts of what Episodes 1-3 wanted to do are not flawed in and of themselves; seeing where Anakin zigged where Luke zagged, getting an idea of what the Jedi were prior to the purge, and providing a window into what conditions allowed Palpatine to grab power. Their failure lies in the execution and answers to those questions being illogical, trite, or unrelatable to viewers.

Yes, the original films benefited from mystery and imaginative world building, but it also spoke to an audience because they connected to the characters. Leia was a strong (literal) rebel fighting for what she believed in, Luke a rural kid with big dreams wanting to make something of himself, Han the cynical wiseass with a hidden compassionate side to him. The prequels didn’t work to a great degree because they simply couldn’t create engaging people the audience was capable of getting into. Anakin moves from darling kid, to bratty teen, to murderous Sith, without ever feeling a person, doubly so with Padme who’s basically the generically good love interest to him and who exists to marry him, give him some kids, and get out of the way via dying.

Lucas was guilty of over-explanation with the prequels to a point, but the idea that no explanation of Vader and others would suffice strikes me as a copout, and ignores that many pieces of media and television have detailed the backstories of major and enigmatic characters, and still made it work because the meat lied in the journey not the destination.

Yeah, the story might be good but generations of fans would be bitch-slapped and anybody who doesn’t watch the movies chronologically would be screwed so as to not ruin mysteries that were never there.

First of all, the Godfather series is not a fantasy space opera that requires immersive world-building through mystery like Star Wars. EVERY fantasy story needs good world-building.

Second of all, it’s not like somebody said in the first Godfather(SPOILERS FOR PART 2), “Hey, remember the time your family died, you became an immigrant, killed a Don, and Michael was sick as a baby?” unless somebody did and I have terrible memory. I prefer Michael’s story anyway.

The following sentences are pure sarcasm. Yeah, let’s make good stories that ruin people’s imagination! That stuff is for kids and teenagers and adults and elderly people!

Darth Lucas said:

I’ve thought about this a lot. And I realized that had the prequels not focused on anakin and Obi-wan, or shown in some capacity the fall of Darth Vader, people would have been immensely disappointed. Even if they were great films, we all maybe would have liked them, but been disappointed that we didn’t get what we had all been hoping for and imagining for 20 years.

Exactly. My approach can be a downer upon announcement and not so much later on, but the other ruins another set of movies and people’s imaginations.

darthrush said:

I disagree. I think that when you further establish the friendship of obi wan and Anakin it makes all the events in the OT mean more. This is obviously theoretically speaking (since the actual prequels did a terrible job of establishing them as friends).

By focusing on Anakins fall and the tradegy of it, his redemption in ROTJ means even more. So, merely explaining backstory isn’t a reason to focus on Obi Wan and Anakin but the true reason is to make so many aspects of the OT more emotionally resonant.

Do I wish the prequels didn’t focus on Obi Wan and Anakin? No.

Do I wish the prequels did the relationship more justice? Yes.

Why do people make movies? Probably to make a good movie. NOT to make another movie better!

Hell, it doesn’t even make the movies better. Anything you imagine is the backstory of the OT is infinitely more compelling to you than what could be shown onscreen.

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Lord Haseo said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:
Yeah, maybe in Episode VII where the Knights of Ren just stand dramatically in Rey’s vision and do nothing else.

Wait what? lol

I like that the the direction you’re going with the Rey/Luke dynamic but I’m not particularly enthralled with Han being resurrected. Reason one being that wasn’t Rexus Ren supposed to be killed so that they could use him/her as a test subject? Secondly, it cheapens Han’s death.

Um… Did you read the whole thing? Don’t really want to spoil anything about Han and the Knights of Ren. I know ressurection cheapens death.

Nah, Rexus Ren just got shipped to Snoke to be killed. Too boring to write out because we already know he’s going to die.

Deleted. Sorry.

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Everybody except the most nostalgia-blinded people know that the prequels are atrocious. Said nostalgia-blinded people often cite that the prequels did everything they needed to do : explain the backstory of the original Star Wars trilogy. I believe this is the exact reason why the prequels fail.

The original trilogy thrived on mysteries. The people act like normal people. Knowledge of the setting flows organically from character to character, and when something greater is implied, it really makes your imagination wonder and just makes the galaxy seem vast (ex: C3P0 introduces himself as Human-Cyborg Relations, which implies relations between cyborgs and humans in the Star Wars universe is strained).

Darth Vader is the ultimate example of the less-is-more storytelling technique. You don’t show the character became the way that they are but you show they are affected by their own motivations. Darth Vader is a half-man half-robot master of evil who refers to himself (Anakin Skywalker) in the third person, fights his own son, and couldn’t even believe he could be redeemed until the last moments of Return of the Jedi.

The motivations needed to justify Darth Vader would have to be so incredibly strong that it is almost impossible, especially when the fans themselves create their own little stories that are better to them than anything anybody could come up with.

Even if Anakin’s fall was told really really well, it’s still just backstory and more of what we already know! Lucas dedicated three movies to ruining the mysteries of the original trilogy and failed even more miserably than anybody could expect!

So what do you do? Simple. Make a story that doesn’t just explain another story. Look at Knights of the Old Republic! It’s set in the past but isn’t defined by it. Forget the Clone Wars! What about the Sith Empire? Avoid spoiling any OT mysteries and just make a damn good story set before the OT!

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