In the end, I just find myself treating the ST like Dragon Ball Z’s Buu Saga/Dragon Ball’s Buu Arc. It’s there, but I don’t think I’ll go out of my way to watch it. The OT/Cell Saga had a much better, more satisfying ending.
After jonh’s awesome upgrade, I’m even more inclined to remove “I’m all the Jedi.” He has made it so we can show instead of tell. And as Dom and SWOTFAN25 have now convinced me, the boss battle with lightsabers is the antithesis of Jedi ideals, and her terrible, parroted line back to Palpatine compounds this error.
Agreed. Cut the “I am all the Sith!” and “I am all the Jedi!” exchange.
Okay, so here’s the clip from when I was working on “Last of the Jedi” many years ago. I may get back to the project eventually, if I do it would hopefully be better, I had done a lot of the editing of the film before I had Vegas so it wasn’t great. So I’m not actually proud of it. 😕
Also I was running out of harddrive space before I finally upgraded, and I exported the whole film to 480p mpeg to to cut the file size…
But as it is, it does show that making Luke kill Fett can work.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19EjAWxYdDOaiWOV3VNHOLeSsYfpwyBh8/view?usp=drivesdk
It’s a decent solution, but I’m more a fan of just cutting Fett completely out of the movie. Unless the blast from the barge kills him (or is deflected by Luke at him), I just think it looks kinda ham-fisted.
I don’t know if anybody can mock it up, but when Fett hits the ground, could it look like he’s been fatally injured (e.g., blaster damage, just his helmet falling down, etc.?)?
I’m so sorry to hear that. I wish you the best, Holly.
-Peter
Jadi ghosts_purple version
https://vimeo.com/412387620
password:jedi
That’s perfection there, jonh! I’m really liking it.
Ah, fair point.
Of all the SE changes, why didn’t LFL get Dennis Lawson to redub his ANH and ESB lines? He worked with them for the Rogue Squadron games, so why not get him to quickly do his bits from those two movies? Heck, it could even put an end to “fake Wedge!”
Fett’s silly death is pretty in keeping with the tone of the ST, actually.
Eh, I’d rather not less the ST’s tone detract from one of the OT’s better action scenes. Besides, eliminating Fett in Jedi adds to his mystery in Empire. He’s a cool guy who now doesn’t get exposed for being a dummy!
The side benefit is that the force kick is now also gone unless you want to paint Fett out of the shot.
I’ve been playing around on the sail barge fight scene, trying to cut Boba Fett from the whole affair. I’ve found that the most difficult part has been getting the right coverage to maintain a decent pace.
The first take has more of the fight intact, albeit with one slowed shot and one wide shot with Fett in it (he’d be roto’ed out). The second take cuts from Lando falling off to the other skiff firing on the heroes’ craft.
Here’s the video. Password: fett
It’s sloppy, but I think it’s possible.
what do you want to fix in ROTJ?
Well, what I’d like to see is a version of the Hayden ghost in ROTJ that looks more content and proud of Luke and less…creepy. Just more appropriate to the moment than the take George chose.
And I’d be curious to see what it would look like with the aging-up you’ve given him for TROS.
Indeed! I’ve wanted that for some time now. Maybe it’s because I grew up with the LEGO Star Wars games, IDK.
It also gives us an alternative to “just bring back Shaw,” which I find kind of limiting.
I will also definitely try to set up some collaboration with oohteedee, because it seems he’s already done a lot of the work and maybe I could just provide him with despecialized shots for his version to replace shots that in his version are just cleaned up scans but could be put together in higher quality by despecializing.
Indeed. You two working together would be a dream come true! The work done by oohteedee (and Skydude, for some shots) is fantastic and will really add to a proper “Despecialized” version of the movie.
We’ve come a long way since upscaled Laserdisc footage, and thanks to work like yours and oohteedee’s, we may soon have near-seamless OOT reconstructions.
I don’t know that I agree that ‘toxic’ needs to stop being used as a descriptor, if only because it CAN apply very well… the problem is that a huge part of WHY it applies is because people DO approach disposable conversations with strangers about space movies with such misplaced energy and importance that it ends up warping perspective, to the point where real toxicity can occur. But usually it’s a pretty long walk between “jeez, that guy is annoying” to “jeez, that guy is TOXIC.”
But even then, that doesn’t mean anyone here can paint a really accurate picture of anyone else’s personality based solely on the very small, focused, and mostly inconsequential (and anonymous) glimpses being given through “Star Wars” talks. Most everyone here has a whole LIFE outside of liking Star Wars that is bigger, and way more important than this, and we’ll never really know about it beyond the surface. Toxicity can be a temporary condition, too, and if you find yourself getting upset at other people’s opinions on Star Wars, in my experience, that just means its time to stop and reflect on what you’re putting into this, and what you’re getting out of it, and whether there’s an imbalance that needs to be tended to on YOUR end.
That word is almost always used when someone has a negative opinion about something someone else likes. DE calls ROTJ bad, he must be TOXIC. It’s meaningless at this point. Anyone who calls someone else toxic immediately looks like someone I don’t want to talk to anymore, even if that isn’t really the case.
OK, I apologize for using that word and rushing to judgment.
The Motion Picture and The Search for Spock are both underrated. And both are better than any of the TNG movies.
Caveat: Special Longer Edition of The Motion Picture. It’s got more character scenes.
I’d argue that The Final Frontier is a tad underappreciated and that’s it’s probably the best of the “bad” Trek films. The TNG films bar First Contact really blow, while I’m not keen on the Kelvin movies. At least The Final Frontier can be used as an argument for auteur theory, what with Shatner presenting “his” vision of the series and his understanding of the characters.
Duracell is good people, Bede.
You seem to be too. I think you just got the wrong idea.
Fair enough. I’ve just had bad experiences on fan forums. It leads me to lash out.
Your posts reek of toxicity.
Forced to live in a capitalist hellscape can do that to a person.
Whenever I read your posts here, the general attitude is that you think you’re better than people who like media that you dislike.
If I felt that, I’d say that. Don’t mistake my contempt for the art for comptempt for those who like the art.
You may have some good points, but I find you utterly insufferable.
Very well.
Point one: fair, but you don’t have to take it out on us. There are healthier ways to handle it.
Point two: I firmly remember you belittling people who liked SC. 38 Reimagined. You apologized, but I thought it was a true indication of your character. That may be unfair, but your posts have such a smug sense of superiority to them that I believe it.
I still maintain that Luke didn’t actually save the galaxy - a fact that renders his entire ‘new hope’ journey somewhat meaningless to me.
Luke was the only one who could get through to Vader. Vader was the only one who could destroy the Emperor.
Without Luke, there’s no hope. He saved the galaxy by redeeming his father. (or, by Returning the Jedi, if you will)I also hate the sister thing. Luke should have gone off alone in search of “The Other” at the end.
I’ve beat this drum several times in these forums, but the best way to explain my unease wth Luke’s actions is to boil it down to the following - what exactly did Luke tell everyone at the Ewok after-party?
If he’d said “I defeated the Emperor” that would’ve been a lie. He didn’t beat the Emperor. He surrendered and circumstances luckily prevailed in a way that led to Palpatine’s demise. That’s it. What Luke actually did was a) refuse to fight (after a brief and justifiable tantrum), b) spare the life of the second most evil guy in the galaxy because…well, he’s dad, and c) declare himself a Jedi and throw his weapon aside. All of this, by the way, while countless innocent beings were being slaughtered outside.
He probably said “I redeemed my evil father, Just like I told Leia I would & he killed the Emperor.”
All of those actions, or inactions, saved the galaxy. *shrugAnd he would’ve found himself hanging from the nearest redwood. How many rebels would’ve lost loved ones and/or had their lives ruined under the jackboots of Vader and his buddies? How thrilled would such folk be to hear that, while Palpatine was killing people by the hundreds with his new weapon, Luke was hiding under a staircase because he didn’t want to lose his temper and risk Vader not going to Jedi Heaven?
Nor can I see why anyone would even consider the possibility of a new Jedi Order based on these actions.
That’s EU anyway. Nowhere in the film does Luke even hint towards restarting anything.
[EDIT- I guess the ST says that Luke went on to do whatever, but that’s not in this film]Yoda says “pass on what you have learned”. The implication is that Luke will go on teach younglings how to hide under staircases in order to spare the bad guys.
Okay, now it just seems like you’re deliberately misinterpreting the movie. The message the movie was trying to get across was that everyone can change, not that you should hide under a staircase or whatever you said. And the whole “war criminal” thing doesn’t apply, because Star Wars shouldn’t be taken that seriously. It’s a mythic fantasy, not a true story.
Indeed. Shopping Maul’s take sounds like a CinemaSins-level bad-faith interpretation of the movie, fundamentally misunderstanding the whole point about redemption and Luke’s connection to his father. It’s not meant to be a strict reflection of reality, nor should we want it to be. This is a fantasy story, not gritty realism.
Sounds like the best way to interpret ROTJ. The movie isn’t worthy of good faith.
I beg to differ. Your posts reek of toxicity. Whenever I read your posts here, the general attitude is that you think you’re better than people who like media that you dislike. You may have some good points, but I find you utterly insufferable.
I’ve said this before but a simple dialogue tweak would fix this. If Luke had said to Leia “I have to turn myself in, I’m endangering the mission. The Sith can feel my presence and know that we’re here. I’ll allow myself to be captured - Vader will take me to the Emperor himself and I will make sure he’s on the Death Star when the attack is launched”.
That would just make Luke a “captain obvious” to those in the audience who cannot make 1+1=2 on their own. On the other hand, it would ruin things in-universe. Luke probably knew and accepted that it was a suicide mission and that he would most likely die if the Death Star was blown off (whether or not Vader was redeemed). Why the hell would he tell such a thing to Leia and make her upset before such a crucial mission she was about to undertake? The way he handled it was very wise; he did not lie but he did not tell her that he is going off on a suicide mission either.
I’m not sure telling her that the guy who tortured her and stood by while her homeworld was obliterated was a) her father and b) strangely worthy of a crack at ‘the good side’, was much better than Luke taking on a heavy mission.
I must be the audience who can’t add 1+1. Luke’s only stated mission is the redemption of Vader. While insane violence is occurring outside, Luke’s primary focus is not losing his cool and avoiding a confrontation with Vader. When he finally kicks Vader’s butt - rather than follow through by doing anything proactive in terms of the war - Luke throws his weapon aside and declares himself a Jedi. People are being incinerated by a super-laser by order of the man standing before him and Luke chooses to disarm himself and declare his own enlightenment. How is any of this remotely helpful to the thousands of sentient beings suffering at the hands of the Imperial juggernaut? What in all this makes anyone think that Jedi Knights are a good idea, especially in a war situation?
Indeed you are the audience member that can’t add 1+1. I’m pretty sure Leia knew that Tarkin and The Emperor had more to do with what happened to her and her homeworld than Vader did (acting within their orders, not questioning them due to extensive brainwashing/basically being their slave). Remember how Vader criticized the Death Star at the meeting? If he was calling the shots, Tarkin and The Emperor wouldn’t have their plaything.
Also, for the “Luke could save so many lives thing,” what’s to say that killing The Emperor will stop the battle? The Star Destroyers, Death Star personnel, and Endor ground troops will still act under their initial orders to fight. Whatever Luke does, many will die in the fight. What he will do really doesn’t impact the battle outside and that’s fine.
Again, I maintain that you’re engaging in bad-faith criticism that really misses the point of the movie and the series, so I respectfully disagree with you.
The best Bond films are the ones that look at Fleming’s books and say: “Nah, mate.” Die Another Day excluded, diverting from Fleming produces the best stuff, IMO. The Moore era, GE-TWINE, and even big chunks of Goldfinger are the best that the series has to offer, IMO.
The last two Bond movies I truly liked were TWINE and Spectre. The sooner the series deviates from Fleming, the better.
I still maintain that Luke didn’t actually save the galaxy - a fact that renders his entire ‘new hope’ journey somewhat meaningless to me.
Luke was the only one who could get through to Vader. Vader was the only one who could destroy the Emperor.
Without Luke, there’s no hope. He saved the galaxy by redeeming his father. (or, by Returning the Jedi, if you will)I also hate the sister thing. Luke should have gone off alone in search of “The Other” at the end.
I’ve beat this drum several times in these forums, but the best way to explain my unease wth Luke’s actions is to boil it down to the following - what exactly did Luke tell everyone at the Ewok after-party?
If he’d said “I defeated the Emperor” that would’ve been a lie. He didn’t beat the Emperor. He surrendered and circumstances luckily prevailed in a way that led to Palpatine’s demise. That’s it. What Luke actually did was a) refuse to fight (after a brief and justifiable tantrum), b) spare the life of the second most evil guy in the galaxy because…well, he’s dad, and c) declare himself a Jedi and throw his weapon aside. All of this, by the way, while countless innocent beings were being slaughtered outside.
He probably said “I redeemed my evil father, Just like I told Leia I would & he killed the Emperor.”
All of those actions, or inactions, saved the galaxy. *shrugAnd he would’ve found himself hanging from the nearest redwood. How many rebels would’ve lost loved ones and/or had their lives ruined under the jackboots of Vader and his buddies? How thrilled would such folk be to hear that, while Palpatine was killing people by the hundreds with his new weapon, Luke was hiding under a staircase because he didn’t want to lose his temper and risk Vader not going to Jedi Heaven?
Nor can I see why anyone would even consider the possibility of a new Jedi Order based on these actions.
That’s EU anyway. Nowhere in the film does Luke even hint towards restarting anything.
[EDIT- I guess the ST says that Luke went on to do whatever, but that’s not in this film]Yoda says “pass on what you have learned”. The implication is that Luke will go on teach younglings how to hide under staircases in order to spare the bad guys.
Okay, now it just seems like you’re deliberately misinterpreting the movie. The message the movie was trying to get across was that everyone can change, not that you should hide under a staircase or whatever you said. And the whole “war criminal” thing doesn’t apply, because Star Wars shouldn’t be taken that seriously. It’s a mythic fantasy, not a true story.
Indeed. Shopping Maul’s take sounds like a CinemaSins-level bad-faith interpretation of the movie, fundamentally misunderstanding the whole point about redemption and Luke’s connection to his father. It’s not meant to be a strict reflection of reality, nor should we want it to be. This is a fantasy story, not gritty realism.
I just happen to unapologetically love ROTJ and the way it ended the trilogy. I like the sister reveal, the way the redemption plays out, and the progression of the battle. I’ve never once had a problem with it. Quite frankly, one of the main characters dying would’ve ruined it.
It’s ok to have a happy ending to the OT. It’s ok that it’s not dark like ESB.
Yeah, using Blade Runner stock footage (that’s been heavily doctored to hide the source) would be excellent! Shying away from the more recognizable buildings, while also incorporating the Jedi Temple (either stock footage or a model that’s been doctored a bit) and other PT places would be advisable. If not, models or digital matte paintings in the style of McQuarrie’s art for Had Abbadon would help.
That looks amazing! I do agree that a toned-down shield might be better.
Will the new bluray be used to make any further changes to ESB:R, or will it remain as is?
(aside from the 1 or 2 things Ady’s pointed out)
It’d be nice to have an alternate audio track that restores the unused music cues. I’ve considered making that edit myself.
I for one would love to see Hayden’s ghost with his ROTS outfit + robe in both ROTJ and TROS, especially if we can get a less creepy take of him for ROTJ.
Agreed! Maybe a Frankenhayden could work here so that he both looks at Obi-Wan and gives a friendly face. It needs to look natural, not like a glaringly obvious addition.
I’m not opposed to lightening the color of his outfit a little, as the series really does play up the whole “light colors good, dark colors conflicted” angle (i.e., Luke’s dark costume comes partially undone, revealing white underneath).
My cutlist would go something like this:
The most important cut for me, IMO:
