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BedeHistory731

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10-Jul-2019
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22-Aug-2025
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845

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Post
#1475950
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

I know how to do the close readings and find those parallels, but that doesn’t make something good or deep or even important. It’s cool if you see it and want to make those arguments, but that’s not going to stop some people from saying that you’re full of shit or are going way too deep into something that never had this level of thought put into it (outside of post-facto interview statements).

Post
#1475942
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Stardust1138 said:

thebluefrog said:

I once read a long theory that Lucas deliberately made PM mirror ROTJ; that may be giving him too much credit, but who knows?
Sometimes I find people watch these films from the lenses of what they want them to be instead of just viewing things for what they are. I’m fortunate I think looking back to seeing The Phantom Menace first then the Original Trilogy and so forth. I didn’t have years to think up how everything must go down. I think the same can be said for fans who grew up with the Originals on a similar level. They had time to form in their head what happened and grew up in a different yet similar time.

I grew up as the prequels were coming out and saw them with minimal knowledge/cursory views of the originals. I still thought AOTC and ROTS were terrible. In hindsight, with more knowledge of the series, I see how people were so disappointed and why the movies still don’t work no matter how many mental gymnastics and overzealous applications of “storytelling theories” one can mention. There really isn’t anything that separates this franchise from things like Star Trek or Harry Potter beyond window dressing. If anything, this franchise made the franchise model a more commonplace thing to the detriment of cinema.

As Patrick H. Willems said, these are just family movies about space wizards. It’s not that deep.

Post
#1475924
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Omni said:

BedeHistory731 said:

What is there to be said that hasn’t already been said? They’re good movie (TPM) and two crimes against cinema (AOTC and ROTS). This trilogy needed TCW to save it and explain things it couldn’t.

Don’t think that’s really the consensus anymore, if it ever was. Maybe around these parts there will be more people who think that way, but anecdotally most of the people I know either IRL (20 - 30 age range) or that I have seen online and in other boards (TheForce.net, for instance) tend to consider ROTS to be the best in the trilogy by a mile and to rival the best of the other two. Curiously, most people I know rank TPM at the very bottom, ST notwithstanding.

To answer the title of the thread - they’re great stories, even if told somewhat unevenly. Ultimately what I’m looking for in movies and especially Star Wars is a great story so for the most part I’m left very satisfied. The PT found its footing and focus as it went on, and got better and better with each entry. I have a good time.

I know my pro-TPM/anti-ROTS isn’t consensus at all - it’s very anti-consensus. ROTS needed at least two or three more drafts to really nail the story.

thebluefrog said:

BedeHistory731 said:

The accusations of “nostalgia bait” should also apply to the PT after Phantom Menace. That movie had such an excellent aesthetic, largely divorced from anything we’d seen in the OT.

Really? I’d say PM was the MOST like the OT. The three main setpieces are grey corridors, desert Tattooine, and forest/palace Naboo. That’s 2/3 of the aesthetic of ROTJ.

In fact, PM is like a mirror to ROTJ, right down to the climax of the silly indigenous people of the planet rising up against a technologically superior army. Lando’s army in space needs planetbound Han to kill the signal; Jar-Jar and Padme’s army on the ground needs Anakin in space to kill the signal.

I once read a long theory that Lucas deliberately made PM mirror ROTJ; that may be giving him too much credit, but who knows?

I’m more talking about the ship designs and the way in which technology was depicted by the movie. There’s nothing like the Naboo ships (all chromed out) or the podracers in the OT.

The ROTJ parallel is definitely noticable in the finale, but with the ground combat split in two (human action scenes and the Gungan battle). That’s enough of a difference for me to write off an entirely intentional mirroring of the third acts.

Post
#1475815
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

What is there to be said that hasn’t already been said? They’re good movie (TPM) and two crimes against cinema (AOTC and ROTS). This trilogy needed TCW to save it and explain things it couldn’t. A side effect of TCW is that it made ROTS infinitely less enjoyable as a finale to the PT and a finale to TCW.

TROS is very rushed and sloppy, but I’d contend that ROTS is similarly flawed (albeit to a lesser extent in this regard). It’s burdened with telling the PT’s entire arc in most of the movie, suffering from the dilly-dallying in the previous two movies. Also, deciding Anakin’s fall through reshoots is somewhat noticeable in the final product. It’s not super-sloppy, but the whole fall feels like it was scribbled on a napkin.

The accusations of “nostalgia bait” should also apply to the PT after Phantom Menace. That movie had such an excellent aesthetic, largely divorced from anything we’d seen in the OT. The later two movies, however, give in to the baiting/universe shrinkage with characters (the Fett family, Chewbacca, and the Vader suit being the main marketing push of ROTS) and reshaping the aesthetic to be more OT-like (but not slavish OT replicas like the ST). I get wanting to push towards the OT as it got closer timeline-wise, but part of me thinks it was responding to TPM backlash.

The meta reasons for disliking the PT are also there. The creation of the Special Editions, compressing the saga’s timeline, the proliferation of unfunny memes, and how Lucasfilm tried to reframe the entire saga as “The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, the chosen one.” When looking at the OT, it makes very little internal sense to interpret it as the continuation of “Vader’s tragedy.” If there is one good thing the ST did (I’d argue it did many), is that it removed the chosen one reframing.

I know there’s been pushback on the idea that George needed other people to reshape his stories to make them better and that he needed to have fewer “yes” men around him (e.g., Rick McCallum). Well, it’s still true. A movie made with a few more passes on the scripts and with a different director (still making George’s story, mind you) would’ve been better than what we got.

When comparing them to the ST, I like the ST more. I simply do. Those movies are incredibly flawed and made by a wretched entertainment conglomerate, but there’s something about them that feels more in tune with the OT (and not in a nostalgia-bait way). TLJ is an excellent piece as a distant epilogue to the OT, much like how TPM is a fantastic distant prologue to the OT (just change it to be 50 years before the OT instead of 30). The Abrams movies are forgettable (but improved with fanedits), but I’ll take forgettable over whatever the later two PT movies were.

Post
#1475480
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

WitchDR said:

WitchDR said:

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Let’s see if bringing a new inquisitor (and checking all the woke boxes, since USA and western world are now consumed by it)

Anybody who brings up “wokeness” like that deserves a permaban.

How about you allow people to discuss things instead of trying to remove people that have opinions you don’t like?

Well, people who cry out against “wokeness” tend to be racists, homophobes, transphobes, sexists, and a variety of other things. I think it’s easy to disregard people who complain about things being “woke.”

Post
#1475476
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

WitchDR said:

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Let’s see if bringing a new inquisitor (and checking all the woke boxes, since USA and western world are now consumed by it)

Fuck off

Anybody who brings up “wokeness” like that deserves a permaban.

How about you allow people to discuss things instead of trying to remove people that have opinions you don’t like?

“Woke” is a word used by the intolerant to demean attempts at any social progress and to strike out at groups they don’t like.

Post
#1475385
Topic
Should Palpatine have been the one to say “To be angry is to be human”?
Time

Stardust1138 said:

I don’t think so. Attack of the Clones really illustrates how different characters are unable to live up to their own standards and often compromise themselves and their principles.

Examples:

Obi-Wan scolds Anakin for losing his lightsaber during the air speeder chase. He loses his lightsaber during his fight with Jango on Kamino.

Mace tells Palpatine they’re the keepers of the peace and not soliders. He cuts Jango’s head off.

Padme doing the same illustrates further how she fell in love with the wrong person but she doesn’t know it until later. However she still holds onto the belief there’s good in him when he completely succumbs and this trait carries over to Luke.

I do like that idea, especially since it implies Padme unknowingly was an enabler for Anakin’s lesser traits.

Post
#1474995
Topic
Last movie seen
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

I’m watching the Disney remake of West Side Story by Steven Spielberg. I’m liking it so far, but there are an awful lot of lens flares. Like a JJ Abrams film.

The young leads are lovely young people, i’m trying to understand why other than being an unnecessary remake this bombed so hard and lost like a hundred million dollars.

Well, the star (Ansel Elgort) got accused of some pretty awful things. That definitely didn’t help.

Post
#1474983
Topic
The Unpopular Film, TV, Music, Art, Books, Comics, Games, &amp; Technology Opinion Thread (for all you contrarians!)
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

The creative spark, and life of Star Wars is George Lucas. I think Disney Star Wars is Star Wars in name only. Its creatively bankrupt, has nothing to say and completely uncreative. A bunch of noise and explosions and special effects. It’s exactly what Star Wars would have been if it was a Hollywood product.

Largely a complaint aimed at the sequel trilogy and JJ Abrams.

They got away with it in force awakens by making a fun movie after the execrable prequels, we thought it was a return to the good old star wars movies. Then we saw how they treated the legacy characters. Luke Skywalker a worthless maguffin. JJ was the absolute worst choice. Ruined the lore, and any potential for any more movies with these characters in the Saga.

I couldn’t disagree more.

Post
#1474612
Topic
If you could change one thing about every movie, what would it be?
Time

TMP: age up Anakin
AOTC: existence
TCW ‘08: just make it TV episodes
ROTS: existence
Solo: no Darth Maul
R1: existence
ANH: recut the duel for faster pacing
ESB: restore “ok, hotshot”
ROTJ: condense the Jabba’s Palace segment by half
TFA: eliminate many prospective mystery boxes
TLJ: cut the one gratuitous shot of Luke in the milk scene
TROS: Rey nobody

Post
#1474392
Topic
What 'a Star Wars Story' / anthology / spinoff film would you like to see?
Time

I despise auteur theory and kind of worship culture it creates, which gives us such delights as “the Polanski letter” and Joss Whedon’s career/writing style. Before you say I just enjoy “popcorn movies” or “seeing the same things again,” I’m not keen on “movies by committee” either (i.e., I’ve never seen an MCU movie and intend to keep it that way).

My thoughts on the auteur theory can best be summed up by this video - Tommy Wiseau: The Last Auteur - Brows Held High. It’s a good summation of a bunch of Kael’s points, using Wiseau’s The Room as a thought experiment on auteurism.

Post
#1472230
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

MalaStrana#2 said:

This finale was so bad… might be the worst piece of sh*t Disney created for the franchise along with TFA and TROS… Deux Grogu Machina is ruining everything again (they don’t even try anymore, just the way it’s moving is insulting to good taste in filmmaking).

I’m so concerned about Kenobi: can they ruin SW any further? 😕

Why don’t you quit if all it does is make you rageful?

Post
#1471847
Topic
Xbox 360
Time

I’m thinking of getting an RGH-modded slim model, so I can play all sorts of ROMs I got off the internet (piracy is essential to games preservation). and my old physical games. Playing various emulators on the console is also a nice perk, but they’re not as numerous as the x86-based emulators on the original Xbox (the 360 used PowerPC architecture).

I loved my old 360 and I use a wired 360 controller with my laptop. I just can’t do keyboard+mouse.