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BedeHistory731

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Join date
10-Jul-2019
Last activity
28-Jun-2025
Posts
838

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Post
#1476876
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Yeah, that’s some fair points right there. I generally only watch RedLetterMedia’s Best of the Worst show, the one made up of watching a bunch of B-movie shlock. I can’t stand their opinions on modern movies, especially Mike’s. He’s like a vacuum of joy.

Would it be unwise to link the more undesirable elements of Plinkett videos to the rise of disgusting channels like CinemaSins or Mauler? Because I can see that lineage. I mostly brought them up earlier because I agreed with some of their more basic points but not the bulk of the “weird” stuff (the edginess is so 2009 it hurts). One can also blame James Rolfe and Doug Walker for things like CinemamSins and Mauler, especially Doug Walker (Doug’s The Wall video is a litmus test for cringe).

I apologize if I came across as a troll or an instigator, but I felt like this discussion was worth having here. Anyway, back to the point.

As a manga/anime fan, I’m fine when an author forgets some relatively small detail they wrote over 20+ years prior. One obsessing over little details like that misses the forest for the trees. It’s the kind of attitude held by the people who lose sleep over slight in-discrepancies in fan wiki articles.

Post
#1476869
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Man, the Plinkett videos really set you off, don’t they? Also, I’m surprised you didn’t bite at me comparing Lucas to Michael Bay (albeit sans-jingoism). I’d think that would send you into a rage.

I do get what you’re saying about faith and wanting people to believe in the best intentions of the filmmaker, I really do. Heck, I’ve been in your position when trying to dissect media like Halloween III: Season of the Witch (John Carpenter trying to turn the franchise into a horror anthology series) or Nothing But Trouble (admiring Dan Ackroyd’s raw creative energy). When the rest of the room is dead-set against you, it’s not fun.

Your writing skills and attempts to explain your points are good. However, I still can’t shake the feeling you consider Lucas’ work a sacred cow and you believe that any criticism of the movies is a personal attack on your fandom and by extension you. Sometimes, it’s good to have perspective and know when to back away from a discussion.

Post
#1476854
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Rick Worley? Man, that guy spends countless videos trying to trick himself into thinking the PT is Actually Good.

I’d rather listen to what Mike, Jay, and Rich have to say. They aren’t up their own ass about these movies nearly as much.

I mean isn’t that exactly what they’re doing by refusing to actually look at the factual evidence and spilling lies?

No, not really. Also, there you go again in calling the Plinkett reviews “lies.”

Wouldn’t you prefer having your opinion challenged instead of watching something that reinforces what you already think and believe it to be?

Yeah, as I’m engaging with you right now. Still, I know when a guy can be full of shit, as Rick firmly is. That man wants to ascribe deep meaning to toyetic family movies, meaning that simply isn’t there.

Lucas isn’t a Bergman, Varda, Coppola, or even a Von Trier. If anything he’s more a Michael Bay or Hollywood John Woo.

Sometimes you have to go after it with what you believe in. You can’t sit and wait for opportunities to share what matters to you or sit still in being who you’re meant to be. Rick is one of those people. I am too.

Sure, but sometimes you have to step back and say, “Wow, I’m spending countless hours looking for deeper meaning in family space fantasy movies. Maybe I’m no better than the nerds who memorize wikis.”

Post
#1476850
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Rick Worley? Man, that guy spends countless videos trying to trick himself into thinking the PT is Actually Good.

I’d rather listen to what Mike, Jay, and Rich have to say. They aren’t up their own ass about these movies nearly as much. But I guess you and the other prequel fans think they’re “fake news” determined to bring your favorite movies down. Like it or not, the Plinkett reviews are still the definitive retrospective on those movies.

Even though the live-action segments aged badly, the Plinkett reviews are IMHO essential viewing for understand PT hate.

Post
#1476697
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Anchorhead said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Also, piracy exists. You can support the show without your finances! I wouldn’t 100% encourage it, but it’s an option.

Watch it or don’t watch it, but be aware of stealing and our position on it. #3 and #4.

https://originaltrilogy.com/announcement/Fan-Edit-Preservation-Forum-Rules-and-FAQ-updated-as-of-June-1st-2020/id/5950/page/1#1351470

I’m well aware of the rules, as I own copies of all the movies I’ve seen fan edits of and I support official releases where I can.

Post
#1476339
Topic
Re-evaluating Revenge of the Sith
Time

Omni said:

Haarspalter said:

I think a lot of goodwill towards ROTS comes from the fans which grew up with the Clone Wars animated series.

I hear this a lot, but I don’t think it’s the case. Most people just really enjoy the movie regardless of the EU. Anecdotally I know more people that like the movie better than the show than the other way around.

I’m the opposite - the show made me like the movie even less!

Post
#1476239
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Servii said:

I can’t think of a single prequel that changed the original work in a positively-received way.

That’s something to keep in mind. Prequels are very difficult to pull off in a way that enhances original story rather than undermining it. They’re usually more likely to work if they’re not a “direct” prequel but are instead just a different story set further back in the timeline.

See Better Call Saul for an example of that. It’s not so much a prequel to Breaking Bad, but instead it’s a show set in the same universe both before and after the show.

Post
#1476062
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Stardust, maybe it’s best to back away. Recognize when somebody isn’t worth engaging with and don’t antagonize them with a wall of text.

Take it from somebody who cut his teeth on hobby boards - nobody truly reads a forum post that’s over 150 words. They’ll read if they’re exceptionally interested, which is rarely the case. Most people just hunt for the pictures and their captions because they don’t want their time wasted by a bunch of word filler and jargon. Brevity is the key to posting and being understood/respected by fellow posters. It is also wise to avoid even the slightest bit of condescending and assuming ill intent from fellow posters when the matter is as low-stakes as this.

Post
#1475950
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

I know how to do the close readings and find those parallels, but that doesn’t make something good or deep or even important. It’s cool if you see it and want to make those arguments, but that’s not going to stop some people from saying that you’re full of shit or are going way too deep into something that never had this level of thought put into it (outside of post-facto interview statements).

Post
#1475942
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Stardust1138 said:

thebluefrog said:

I once read a long theory that Lucas deliberately made PM mirror ROTJ; that may be giving him too much credit, but who knows?
Sometimes I find people watch these films from the lenses of what they want them to be instead of just viewing things for what they are. I’m fortunate I think looking back to seeing The Phantom Menace first then the Original Trilogy and so forth. I didn’t have years to think up how everything must go down. I think the same can be said for fans who grew up with the Originals on a similar level. They had time to form in their head what happened and grew up in a different yet similar time.

I grew up as the prequels were coming out and saw them with minimal knowledge/cursory views of the originals. I still thought AOTC and ROTS were terrible. In hindsight, with more knowledge of the series, I see how people were so disappointed and why the movies still don’t work no matter how many mental gymnastics and overzealous applications of “storytelling theories” one can mention. There really isn’t anything that separates this franchise from things like Star Trek or Harry Potter beyond window dressing. If anything, this franchise made the franchise model a more commonplace thing to the detriment of cinema.

As Patrick H. Willems said, these are just family movies about space wizards. It’s not that deep.

Post
#1475924
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Omni said:

BedeHistory731 said:

What is there to be said that hasn’t already been said? They’re good movie (TPM) and two crimes against cinema (AOTC and ROTS). This trilogy needed TCW to save it and explain things it couldn’t.

Don’t think that’s really the consensus anymore, if it ever was. Maybe around these parts there will be more people who think that way, but anecdotally most of the people I know either IRL (20 - 30 age range) or that I have seen online and in other boards (TheForce.net, for instance) tend to consider ROTS to be the best in the trilogy by a mile and to rival the best of the other two. Curiously, most people I know rank TPM at the very bottom, ST notwithstanding.

To answer the title of the thread - they’re great stories, even if told somewhat unevenly. Ultimately what I’m looking for in movies and especially Star Wars is a great story so for the most part I’m left very satisfied. The PT found its footing and focus as it went on, and got better and better with each entry. I have a good time.

I know my pro-TPM/anti-ROTS isn’t consensus at all - it’s very anti-consensus. ROTS needed at least two or three more drafts to really nail the story.

thebluefrog said:

BedeHistory731 said:

The accusations of “nostalgia bait” should also apply to the PT after Phantom Menace. That movie had such an excellent aesthetic, largely divorced from anything we’d seen in the OT.

Really? I’d say PM was the MOST like the OT. The three main setpieces are grey corridors, desert Tattooine, and forest/palace Naboo. That’s 2/3 of the aesthetic of ROTJ.

In fact, PM is like a mirror to ROTJ, right down to the climax of the silly indigenous people of the planet rising up against a technologically superior army. Lando’s army in space needs planetbound Han to kill the signal; Jar-Jar and Padme’s army on the ground needs Anakin in space to kill the signal.

I once read a long theory that Lucas deliberately made PM mirror ROTJ; that may be giving him too much credit, but who knows?

I’m more talking about the ship designs and the way in which technology was depicted by the movie. There’s nothing like the Naboo ships (all chromed out) or the podracers in the OT.

The ROTJ parallel is definitely noticable in the finale, but with the ground combat split in two (human action scenes and the Gungan battle). That’s enough of a difference for me to write off an entirely intentional mirroring of the third acts.

Post
#1475815
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

What is there to be said that hasn’t already been said? They’re good movie (TPM) and two crimes against cinema (AOTC and ROTS). This trilogy needed TCW to save it and explain things it couldn’t. A side effect of TCW is that it made ROTS infinitely less enjoyable as a finale to the PT and a finale to TCW.

TROS is very rushed and sloppy, but I’d contend that ROTS is similarly flawed (albeit to a lesser extent in this regard). It’s burdened with telling the PT’s entire arc in most of the movie, suffering from the dilly-dallying in the previous two movies. Also, deciding Anakin’s fall through reshoots is somewhat noticeable in the final product. It’s not super-sloppy, but the whole fall feels like it was scribbled on a napkin.

The accusations of “nostalgia bait” should also apply to the PT after Phantom Menace. That movie had such an excellent aesthetic, largely divorced from anything we’d seen in the OT. The later two movies, however, give in to the baiting/universe shrinkage with characters (the Fett family, Chewbacca, and the Vader suit being the main marketing push of ROTS) and reshaping the aesthetic to be more OT-like (but not slavish OT replicas like the ST). I get wanting to push towards the OT as it got closer timeline-wise, but part of me thinks it was responding to TPM backlash.

The meta reasons for disliking the PT are also there. The creation of the Special Editions, compressing the saga’s timeline, the proliferation of unfunny memes, and how Lucasfilm tried to reframe the entire saga as “The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, the chosen one.” When looking at the OT, it makes very little internal sense to interpret it as the continuation of “Vader’s tragedy.” If there is one good thing the ST did (I’d argue it did many), is that it removed the chosen one reframing.

I know there’s been pushback on the idea that George needed other people to reshape his stories to make them better and that he needed to have fewer “yes” men around him (e.g., Rick McCallum). Well, it’s still true. A movie made with a few more passes on the scripts and with a different director (still making George’s story, mind you) would’ve been better than what we got.

When comparing them to the ST, I like the ST more. I simply do. Those movies are incredibly flawed and made by a wretched entertainment conglomerate, but there’s something about them that feels more in tune with the OT (and not in a nostalgia-bait way). TLJ is an excellent piece as a distant epilogue to the OT, much like how TPM is a fantastic distant prologue to the OT (just change it to be 50 years before the OT instead of 30). The Abrams movies are forgettable (but improved with fanedits), but I’ll take forgettable over whatever the later two PT movies were.

Post
#1475480
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

WitchDR said:

WitchDR said:

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Let’s see if bringing a new inquisitor (and checking all the woke boxes, since USA and western world are now consumed by it)

Anybody who brings up “wokeness” like that deserves a permaban.

How about you allow people to discuss things instead of trying to remove people that have opinions you don’t like?

Well, people who cry out against “wokeness” tend to be racists, homophobes, transphobes, sexists, and a variety of other things. I think it’s easy to disregard people who complain about things being “woke.”

Post
#1475476
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

WitchDR said:

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Let’s see if bringing a new inquisitor (and checking all the woke boxes, since USA and western world are now consumed by it)

Fuck off

Anybody who brings up “wokeness” like that deserves a permaban.

How about you allow people to discuss things instead of trying to remove people that have opinions you don’t like?

“Woke” is a word used by the intolerant to demean attempts at any social progress and to strike out at groups they don’t like.