Alexrd

Akwat Kbrana said:

No, for the analogy to make sense he would have had to find a disassembled lexicon which he carefully pieced together into perfect working order, only so his illiterate mother could use it as a paperweight. Which is ridiculous.

You are right about the pieces, but it's

Akwat Kbrana said:

As far as we know, he somehow specifically set out to built a protocol droid to help his mother, presumably with her ordinary day-to-day activities. Which, again, is absurd.

How?

Akwat Kbrana said:

For another, it shrinks the universe and introduces a level of "convenience" that stretches credulity beyond the breaking point.

I'm sorry but "convenience that stretches credulity" is something that happened in every episode of the saga. I don't think that can be raised as an argument.

Akwat Kbrana said:

Then of course, to top it off, there's the fact that a junk dealer's slave would have no need for a droid specifically designed for etiquette/protocol and translating over six million languages."

If a protocol droid can do what he wants, who cares if it's protocol or astromech? Speaking of astromech, why would Luke need R2 on a farm? To fix vaporators? It's the same thing.

Akwat Kbrana said:

Now who's hitting the strawman? ;) In my defence, although I'm rather a fan of ROTJ, nevertheless I've always contended that the Luke-Leia sibling relationship is absurdly stupid and fanwakery on nearly the same level as all the inbred universe-shrinking of the PT.

The "universe-shrinking" started with TESB.

Akwat Kbrana said:

There's a good reason most of us OT fans/"PT bashers" consider ROTJ to be the weakest of the OT...

Yet it's part of the beloved (by me too) OT. And it doesn't mean the other two have only small faults.

Akwat Kbrana said:

Because while there's nothing wrong with a protocol droid doing something non-protocol related, that's quite a different issue than specifically building a protocol droid to help a homeless mom do chores around the house. That's like me writing a Greek lexicon for my wife, who has absolutely no use for the ability to look up the English definition to Greek words. Sure, she could use it as a paperweight...but if that's what she needs, then why not just give her a paperweight to begin with?

Maybe because he had not found any paperweight. He found a lexicon.

Ok, but RLM isn't debating whether or not Anakin, on finding some pieces to a protocol droid, should or shouldn't have gone ahead and put them together. He's debating the storytelling merit (or lack thereof) of using this as a subplot. The issue isn't so much whether or not Anakin, if given the opportunity, should've build a protocol droid; it's whether or not George Lucas should have written that into the movie.

Subplot?! And why shouldn't he have written that? It doesn't hurt anything. The problem is that you (and/or RLM) seem to find a problem that a protocol droid can do chores. It's like hitting a strawman.

And however you rationalize it, Anakin building C3p0 is just mind-numbingly stupid. For one thing it's fanwankery, pure and simple. For another, it shrinks the universe and introduces a level of "convenience" that stretches credulity beyond the breaking point.

Like Leia and Luke being brothers. Oh, almost forgot. That's OT so it's okay.

Then of course, to top it off, there's the fact that a junk dealer's slave would have no need for a droid specifically designed for etiquette/protocol and translating over six million languages.

That's why he used it for chores.

Chewtobacca said:

That's the entire point of the comparison I made!  You could do it.  Open the sunroof.  Have deliveries sticking out of the boot.  Make more trips.  It's possible, but it's not likely.  That's my point.  If Anakin's mother needed help, it's possible that he would build a droid specialised in protocol and translation,  but it's more likely he would make her a droid more fitted to the purpose.

Yes, but he happened to find protocol droid pieces.

Chewtobacca said:

So what?  He can still build one.  If he wants to be a pilot, having him build an astromech would at least make sense.

Yes, but as I said, he wanted a droid to help his mother. If he didn't find that a protocol droid could the job, he would never had started to (re)build him.

I argued that a more plausible scenario -- if you want to have Artoo in the film -- is to have Anakin build the droid for himself.

But the current scenario has nothing wrong with it. As far as R2's concerned.

P.S: Gonk is a droid. ;)

Akwat Kbrana said:

Presumably, from this little gem of dialogue from 77, between Uncle Owen (who lives on the same planet and in pretty much the same setting as Shmi did), and 3p0:

Yet, on the same movie, we see him do other things than protocol. Why is this so wrong with TPM but not wrong with ANH?

Akwat Kbrana said:

Moreover, it just seems like common sense. Are you seriously suggesting that a slave woman living on a backwater planet run by the hutts, owned by a sleazy junk dealer, apparently stuck at home all day, would have some pressing need for a droid  that's been programmed for "etiquette and protocol"? What, do you think Watto had her busy entertaining foreign dignitaries or something?

Her son thought she did need help at home, and happen to find pieces of protocol droid, which from a physical point of view looks way more helpful than an astromech for chores.

Chewtobacca said:

All sorts of things can be used for tasks they weren't meant for.  What is hard to believe is that Anakin would deliberately make a droid designed for diplomacy and protocol for a domestic environment.  That's like making a sports car for a delivery man.  Sure, he could use the sports car for deliveries, but wouldn't it be better to make him a van instead...

Yet, you need space on the vehicle for the deliveries. A protocol droid seems way more pratical for chores than an astromech. We do see 3PO serving drinks on RotS, IIRC. (R2 does the same in RotJ, but that only proves that there is no problem here.)

Chewtobacca said:

I don't think RLM feels he is nitpicking: he seems to me to be outlining what he believes to flaws with the film.  He obviously likes the original film and seems genuinely disappointed with the prequels.  I doubt that he set out to find fault.

I believe that he loves the originals and is disappointed with the prequels. But those videos are indeed about fault finding, in my opinion.

Chewtobacca said:

I fail to see how Artoo can be considered a gonk, not that I would use the term.

My mistake. I thought it was you who had mention a gonk.

Chewtobacca said:

I think it is perfectly logical for Anakin, a boy who wants to be a pilot, to construct himself an astromech droid.  This seems more logical than constructing a protocol droid for his mother.

From the comments of his friends, an astromech is not something that common around there.

Chewtobacca said:

I meant that if we wanted to set up a more plausible scenario than the film presents us with, a ruler having a protocol droid for translating in diplomatic situations would be logical.

But that's not in question. Amidala may have one. Who's to say? It's not like she has an astromech instead of a protocol on a daily basis.

Chewtobacca said:

It makes more sense than Anakin or Shmi having one.  If Lucas was determined to work Artoo and Threepio into the prequels, this would have been a better way of doing it, as far I'm concerned.

Read above.

Chewtobacca said:

It's the part where he quotes Threepio saying that he's not much more than an interpreter and says he doesn't say he washes dishes.  Watch the review again.  RLM does explain why he doesn't think that a protocol droid would be useful for Shmi.

Yet we know that protocol droids can drive vehicles and pilot starships, things that they were not made to do. Like I said, all he does is searching nits to pick, and that's hardly called a review.

Chewtobacca said:

I know that.  I already said that if a Protocol droid wouldn't help his mother and Lucas wanted Anakin to build a droid, a more logical scenario was the one I outlined.

Right... A gonk is way more helpful...

Alexrd said:

Chewtobacca said:

a ruler might reasonably be expected to have more use for an interpreter than a mechanical droid on a day-to-day basis.

R2 served the queen on a day-to-day basis?! Where? And I thought they only met on the ship after he did a task that he was built to do.

I never said that Artoo did.

Then what did you meant with your first post? It's not like the movie says anything otherwise.

Chewtobacca said: 

I was outlining an alternative more logical scenario in which Anakin constructs Artoo in the films and the Queen is in possession of Threepio because she has a need for a protocol droid as a translator to help with her diplomatic functions.

I fail to see how one is more logical than the other. Is a protocol droid supposed to be with her when she was arrested? Why is it so hard to believe that a protocol droid can help at home?

I guess your Classic LOL Moments in OT.com History thread needs an update.

EyeShotFirst said:

Alexrd said:

EyeShotFirst said:

I'm done, no need to bother arguing with the closed minded.

How ironic...

Is that an "Hal argument"?

EyeShotFirst said:

I'm done, no need to bother arguing with the closed minded.

How ironic...

EyeShotFirst said:

How the hell was C3PO supposed to help a slave? She didn't exactly seem like she was in the line of work that would require a snooty robot that translates. C3PO would be more useful for somebody important, who goes across the stars speaking to creatures with bizarre languages, like pamadalan.

Have you even seen Star Wars? The versions I most remember involved C3PO whining and complaining every time anything happened. The only time he was ever useful was as a translator.

So, are you saying that a protocol droid couldn't help her with house work? Or that a astromech droid was more suitable for the task? Anyway, it's not like the kid had much of a choice. He found the remains, and built it in secret.

EyeShotFirst said:

C3PO would be more useful for somebody important, who goes across the stars speaking to creatures with bizarre languages, like pamadalan.

Of course he would. Who's to say that the queen didn't have one? R2 was not her personal droid, he happened to be on a starship, where he rightfuly belongs.

EyeShotFirst said:

Have you even seen Star Wars? The versions I most remember involved C3PO whining and complaining every time anything happened. The only time he was ever useful was as a translator.

Are you judging the kid's choice based on the droid's future self? Is Anakin supposed to know how C-3PO will be 30 years later?!

Chewtobacca said:

RLM explained that it wouldn't make sense for Anakin to construct Threepio to help Shmi by observing that a protocol droid wouldn't be much use in the home.

That's his personal opinion. Where did he observe that?

Chewtobacca said:

If Lucas has to have Anakin build one of the two droids, it is more logical for him to build Artoo (to help himself)

But he didn't build the droid to help himself at the store, but his mother at home. If he needed a droid at the store, Watto would have provided one.

Chewtobacca said:

a ruler might reasonably be expected to have more use for an interpreter than a mechanical droid on a day-to-day basis.

R2 served the queen on a day-to-day basis?! Where? And I thought they only met on the ship after he did a task that he was built to do.

Tobar said:

 

That's such a brilliantly obvious and logical idea,

Is it? From what I recall, C-3PO was built to help Shmi at home, not at the shop. And R2-D2 belonged to the Queen's Ship, where he was indeed useful. This is a perfect example of searching nits to pick. That's why his reviews are all BS.

haljordan28 said:

Oh, great... He's everywhere...

haljordan28 said:

just another pathetic example of lucas pathetic prequel  story telling

No. Pathetic is your logic. In your opinion, just because someone never had a car accident, it wouldn't be necessary to have an insurance for that. To you, having one is just pathetic, right?

And even so, Lucas made it pretty obvious that Maul was the one most prepared and efficient duelist.

Oh, almost forgot the irony:

haljordan28 said:

    I did like the duel  from episode 1.

TV's Frink said:

Alexrd said:

I will buy it when I have a Blu Ray driver.

A what now?

I assume you mean a player, but I've never heard this term before.  Is it a language issue?

Yes, I meant drive. Bloody R key...

I will buy it when I have a Blu Ray driver. Mainly because of TPM and all the extras.

Seconded.

HotRod said:

Shoot me, I don't give a shit....:)

I was being sarcastic. I don't have a problem if you or anyone likes the prequels. ;)

HotRod said:

Come on, the lightsaber fight in TPM was pretty cool......

That's forbidden to say.

TML, here's your chance to deserve a medal.

TheBoost said:

"The Truth" is a complicated thing, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about things George Lucas has said. I question any argument that includes quotes from Lucas as a basis.

It also seems odd that you use evidence from the PT (Dooku and Yoda lightsabering) to discredit the OT claim that Obi was old and out of practice.

The dueling styling in the OT changed considerably during the trilogy. Compare Obi/Darth to Luke/Darth II. At first Lucas insisted the lightsabers had to be worked two handed, but the fight choreographers convinced him to allow more one handed moves.

It seems to me that dramatically it makes sense that the duels are so different.

Obi/Darth= Old Man vs. Cyborg

Luke/Darth=Rookie vs. Cyborg who doesn't want to kill him

Maul/Qui/Obi= Sith Killing Machine vs. Two Jedi in their Prime

Obi/Anakin= Two best Jedi in the galaxy kicking ass.

I don't need Lucas to tell me any of those things. They seem obvious from the movies.

My thoughts exactly.

haljordan28 said:

KURTZ  NEVER GOT  FIRED  MUCH LESS HALF  WAY THRUGH   EPISODE 5.   HE LEFT   AFTER EMPIRE.   HE  WANTED NOTHING TO DO  WITH THE DIRECTIO   LUCAS  WAS TAKING THINGS.  THE SAME WAY  LAWERNCE  KASDAN  WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PREQUELS   AFER LUCAS GAVE HIM AN OUTLINE OF IT.

 

EVERYONE   HATED THE DIRECTION LUCAS TOOK THING...HAMIL,  FORD,   KURTZ,  KASDAN....EVERYONE.  AND WE ALL SEE WHY  CAUSE WE ALL SEE THEW OUTCOME OF THE  PREQUELS AKA  JUNKQUELS

No.

TheBoost said:

hal, all snark aside, where did you get the impression you were surrounded by rapid PT lovers? Was it the name of the website?

I think it's the other way around. He thought by the name of the website that this was a nest of PT haters and that people would agree with everything he wrote around here. He was wrong.

TML said:

Call me crazy, but from seeing his other threads, I think he's trying to tell us that he doesn't care for the prequels... Maybe if he makes 4 more threads it will make it clearer...

Oh, he cares. He loves them. That's why he can't stop talking about them. Love is in the air.

haljordan28 said:

sorry but  I give perfect  reasons behind my hate and dislike for the pt films.

Of course you do... So perfect that you need to search for nitpicking videos. I wonder if you will pick RLM videos if they'll ever do an OT "review".

haljordan28 said:

if any prequel lover  wants to  he can debate my  reasons for hating them. 

What is a prequel lover? I don't know if you are adressing me, but I'm no lover of anything. I'm a Star Wars fan, and when I say Star Wars I mean the whole saga. Does that make you angry? Good.

haljordan28 said:

they dont/wont  because they know there is no way to defend those piece of shi* films.

Yes, there are, but I won't waste my time with you because you can't debate. All you do is call them shi*, crap, junk, garbage etc without proper reason, and everyone who disagrees with you is a liar, because you think you own the truth. That's no argument, that's trolling, and I don't feed trolls. Feel free to waste your time with what you don't like, kid.

haljordan28 said:

the prequels need bashing  in every  corner of the world. they can't be bashed enough.

So, you're just another troll. I see... I do wonder why does someone waste time of their life on bashing something they hate, but that leads me to my next point:

haljordan28 said:

so sorry prequel lover.  sorry if the truth offends you.

I laugh at those childish arguments...

I'll keep what I said: "Complainers are not productive members of society; they make everyone around them aware of their dissatisfaction, without offering any valid reason for their dissatisfaction, or means of resolving their dissatisfaction - in other words, there is no purpose for them to complain. Complainers just cause misery for the people to whom they complain. People who cause misery for other people to no end are, in my experience, crazy people."

P.S: Next time, go with the whambulance.

haljordan28 said:

If anyone defends the prequels....after watching this  I dont see how they can, this guy explains with pure logic  how these films make no sense and how they are garbage.

 

enjoy. this is very entertaining and funny  and shows the truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

 

First, that's not a review. A review also evaluates merits of the work in question, something that guy doesn't. Among other things...

Second, if nitpicking videos such as those show if a movie is garbage or not, I bet that if he wasn't an hypocrite and made nitpicking videos about the OT, you would find them garbage too.

Third, I wonder how many more thread will you open just to bash the prequels. Do you love them so much? As someone wrote on another forum:

Complainers are not productive members of society; they make everyone around them aware of their dissatisfaction, without offering any valid reason for their dissatisfaction, or means of resolving their dissatisfaction - in other words, there is no purpose for them to complain. Complainers just cause misery for the people to whom they complain. People who cause misery for other people to no end are, in my experience, crazy people.

haljordan28 said:

I would in a heart beat.  I would miss my family to death  of course but  one day thats gonna happen anyways so hell yes I would  go  in a a new yok minute.  How about you all? go or stay?

Why not kill yourself right now? One day that's going to happen anyway...