ABC

In order to appreciate the music, one should do as he feels of course. But if you just want to check the qualities of a recording, very cheap equipment becomes quite interesting. I've checked once the volumes for the AE on a mini HI-Fi of the cheapest kind that is left unused at home with headphones and I was surprised how I could hear everything in detail...

Info: post 2: CD3 shows now the tracks wich received slight adjustment for the set (*)... Eeeerrr... No it's not a cat's bottom... Overall these changes only consist to give a few more tension or some boldness, trying to render CD3 the more generous as possible. Some tracks from the 15mn overview were not final.

hairy_hen said:

Shame they didn't record the concert arrangement of Han Solo and the Princess.  That theme (leitmotif if you like) is probably my favourite.

If you're talking about the LSO, sure that I feel the same...! Perhaps we'll find out in 50 years they actually did ! ha !

The judicious use of flatted 2nd and 6th scale degrees is very evocative...

 Can you speak Bachais, please ?

hairy_hen said:

... Particularly for Jedi, I expect a lot of improvement comes simply from using the superior Anthology as a source; but that's not to downplay the importance of his EQ changes, which work wonders in giving a better sound.

 To notice, sound engineer Eric Tomlinson used to record these scores through each parts of the orchestra (the famous 24-track tapes), and in the same time used to make a more overall recording: a "live mix" through 8-track tapes. The Anthology provides a lot of these live mixes using final 2-track edited or pre-edited tapes.

That's a good clue to know what to search in those recordings to work on- I didn't know when I worked on it, though the live ambiance was easy to notice here and there. Surely a reason why most of you are so impressed with the sound. I've gone a bit too far in "loud" and "highs" *imo*.

I still prefer my '77 Star Wars rendition, It was only a first draft (a first cleaning through equalization) and I didn't dare touching it further so it was good to listen. the tracks from the Anthology are the film mix, the SE are 24-track tapes remixes, but reduced DRange with processings.

On the original album, a little half of the tracks are missed mixes, and a big half are successful and awesome ones wich are the best to be found. Most of the pitches are wrong so there may be a lot of work there again to get that back.

Anyway I think the salvage version of "Jedi" is the best for discovery, the SW is the best for appreciation, and ESB... Pfff... Well, just keep it for the car.

Btw, the quieter tracks are very good I think on the Skywalker Symphony disc!

Well, I guess my English and my formulation wasn't perfect. Just an invitation for people who are still having the idea to send "remember-me"-like PM's.

I'm glad the "Return Of The Jedi" score resurface from this tread through feedbacks !

Just wanted to share my thought that it's a real mess most of people look to know only the SE. The Star Wars sountrack Anthology should be the main reference if you want to compare my work on these scores, even though a bunch of tracks are still sourced from the SE, obviously.

One must know that the SE has very limited dynamic range due to unjustified use of peak limiting and compression, when almost no processing was used for the Anthology (only the analog to digital transfer, and very few EQ's).

I've sent the 2 firsts CD's to a couple of buds as a preview, just so everyone know. They will feedback or not, what doesn't matter to me as they already have, or as they may have been helpful in a way or another.

Once more, please don't PM me - nor them - about the AE for now. The upload is still incomplete. If you have great expectations for this work, please post here.

satanika said:

Leonardo said:

satanika said:

Just a quick note regarding the clipping...
Well, there really shouldn't be any clipping/digital distortion, what you usually do if there are some 'outrageous' peaks is put a brickwall limiter at the end of your filter chain, it will catch anything over 0db (digital 0db) and avoid digital distortion.
Feel free to PM me if you need help with this or something.

I disagree satanika. if you just cut away stuff or compress with limiters and compressors, you're modifying that audio's dynamic range, and that's not good for an audiophile. I think that in order to avoid distortions of any kind, you should work with your data at a lower volume in the first place, by setting your filters (in this case the equalizers ABC's using) at the right volume so that we avoid clipping but just loud enough to be powerful. I've done this  several times trying to enhance some old cassette tapes.

No. I am talking about peaks that are out of the 'normal' dynamic range. And since there is already clipping, a brickwall limiter would have been the ideal way to handle it.

 Mmmmhh, I was crossing that old thread with curiosity... And this post has always left me doubtful.

You seem to know a lot about all kind of tools for sound and video, and I personnaly don't.

Thanks for your advises Satanika, but it appears the best way to restore a score is to REALLY understand what is wrong with it before thinking about any trick you may be able to use. One should also consider how it has been recorded and transfered before deciding of any kind of processing.

In addition to EQ's, the balances were the main problem on the ESB recordings. My new edit, the "Audiophile Edition" has an average peak between 80 to 96 % for the louder cues, with a maximum at 98,8%, and sounds superior to the previous sets I made. The only thing I used to mesure the peaks were my ears (again!), helped with some good experience now with sound amplitude.

It didn't need any brickwall limiter. Besides it wouldn't make sense with recordings of such nature ;) .

k_bacon said: 

Hmm, sorry if I mixed up something here.

No issue. The OE thread has gone on page 3 or 4 of the preservation forum surely, so I guess this one topic looks a bit like "dejà-vu"... Mmmhh, paradoxal because I can tell you it's some "never heard" there.

... And I know enough about audio editing to do a crossfade, but why should I? It's your vision of the score, and I see no reason tempering with it. It's just not that important.

Ah, thanks.

zombie84 said:

... Anyone else?

 That's actually the first thing I noticed: the grain in the right white part of that shot. It looks like a more authentic transfer.

I'm really glad to observe dust and grain look to win respect these times. Are we entering a new age?... Or a war between "pristine" and dust? ;)

You see ?... There I'm okay to marry her !!!

So does it match with an official release or something ?

... Leia makes obvious an horizontal stretching on this one. (Or vertical shrinking if you prefer).

And I don't  think, I just see ;)

Red5 said:

 

ED2 top, GOUT bottom

 

OK guys, sorry to enter an area for wich I'm totally an ignorant, but my eyes are like my ears: they love GOOD PROPORTIONS.

I really don't care about "original theatre" or other format, but sure letter box are not great to endure.

So, just one question: is there any version of these films wich don't show the actors stretched whatever in horizontal or vertical way, but just with normal proportions ?!!!... Just curious.

Thanks K_Bacon, but if you're talking about my work on the "Optimum Edition", it has - almost - nothing to do with the new one.

I found a copy of the OE 2 last week, thinking I didn't keep one for myself. When I listened to the portion you're talking about I was surprised to hear how "SE" it sounded... I mean relatively to the AE of course. The OE 3 is different from the OE 2 but not really "better".

... And for the two tracks you mention, the levels fit so well that you just have to crossfade those tracks for yourself without caring about anything. It's gonna take you 2 min... Isn't it great ?

One should be able to reedit the entire score from the AE besides, without caring about any levels, or almost.

NOTE ABOUT PM's:

I received many pm's recently. Thanks for your consideration about this work guys. Now, may I say some people here know me well enough for being able to cross my threads to pm my work, surely a reason why Ripplin is so confident in the pm system ;) (though I still don't know if I'm still going to do so). But on the contrary I don't cross my pm's as I use to delete them... Just an idea I share...

Despite this I'm still polite enough to answer them, on the contrary of a few people around... :)

Loconut said:

rcb said:

i'm working on an edit, ady do u or anyone else know of a way to remove vocals or music from a scene?

Well, Actually there isn't. It is possible you filter out some, but never all (of either one).

 Isn't a little like asking if you can separate the violins and the harps ? ;)

All the definitive SW film mixes are a blend of dialogs / sfx / and score anyway, no ?...

Still better: paste the text in your default block note, and re-paste it there. It will ignore the font style ;)

msycamore said:

Stupid text! cannot get it any bigger.

 How ?... Like this ?...

Here's a interesting post made by Lukas Kendall on the FSM Board a few months ago:

You are not going to get what you want for either franchise. Lucasfilm controls the rights and ransoms them to the highest bidder. They also defer to Williams, whose people run up big mixing bills and do not orient the releases to collectors' wishes (as happened on the recent Indy box). On top of that there are still elements problems with the original Trilogy due to the stuff having not been well archived at the time...there was a guy at the Star Wars Convention at the L.A. Convention Center a few years ago who was ransoming off original tape reels he had dug up from (LP remix engineer) John Neal's estate, including the original 2" 16-track of side four of the Star Wars LP! (Who knows where sides 1 through 3 went...the way this guy explained it, he got side 4 out of some garage...he did loan it to Lucasfilm at least to make a digital copy.) Finally, that 2CD Phantom Menace was something of a fiasco...Lucasfilm only did it because the tracks had gotten out there somehow (I forget how) and thought they were giving the collectors what they wanted by using the edited stems as conformed to the movie (with a million edits). They were quite taken aback by all the negative criticism -- "what's the problem, it's exactly every note as heard in the film?" I remember explaining to one of the executives the subtleties involved and by the time I finished the attitude I heard was along the lines of "to hell with these people." Others know much more than I do but omerta prevails...such is the power of the Force. My real advice is to relax because after all we do have every note from the Trilogy on those 2CD editions...it's easy to overlook what a big deal that was...as well as significant Indy releases.

Lukas

I think that post shows how much this franchise is in the wrong hands nowadays. I know that we filmscore enthusiasts is still a minority and a little "niche market", but they have treated the films even worse!

---

... And its me who have the non working machine ! haha ! Nice found btw.

Allow me to disagree with the last point. I don't want to discuss that here but just be aware of the consequences if LFL or so tried to seek troubles to someone who gained such a notoriety... I would personaly think twice. The best solution for them now would be to strike a deal when he'll finish the trilogy. ... Remember my words in a few years: I think they just wait in silence.

Imrahil said:

I just discovered this and it's going to be a closed release? That makes me a sad panda.

 Only time will tell, what may allow you to give this thread its chance. The project is currently stuck due to computers issues anyway (can't finish the booklet in order to make it for now).

But the last point of Frink is a very good one, and notably makes me think the kind person who has proposed his facilities for a wide share unfortunately attracts such an activity (public releases) with his own edits. Then: solution rejected.

There's a little icon wich looks like a letter in the top right of your screen. Just saw you were online right now and I would suggest you check it.

Ah ! I can see we have the same release date for our edits Adywan ! That's great. That's gonna be a wonderful 40th ESB anniversary !!! :)

Well, there's another point I haven't mentionned: I take - virtualy for the moment - all the responsabilities about any legal issues there. Fox, LFL, and Bantha music who is the publisher since the 1st release in 1980 and probably 1977, may have their word to say about such a "share".

Feedbacks may be then also a way to anticipate any future issue (who knows ?!!) as to underline the "necessity" or at least the interest of such a restoration work.

Joel said:

Hi - Not sure what you're asking me, but I'm having trouble just not knowing anything about newsgroups, etc.  Is that what you mean by "other site?"

Not at all. Are you asking for links, yes or no ? Though as you said "'Downloading" in your previous post, seems that you don't need them.

And re: "Certainly not".. I somehow missed that you weren't doing the vinyl transfers yourself. Vacuum cleaning machines (A la Keith Monks, VPI, and Nitty Gritty) are the gold standard for getting a clean record to begin with. 

 

 Ah. That could have been useful for a couple of tracks of the "Audiophile Edition". Fortunately the recordings were so sharp due to both the format and John Neal's remixings that I made two of a stroke by borrowing mostly the medium range, what helped me a lot in the same time to temper the cracklings. That makes a more complete answer to your previous question. ;)