Special Editions - Improvement to Film or Changing History?

This is a thread that I wish to discuss, because it’s been a thing of contention since, well, since the Special Editions came out since 1997. The Special Editions are changes that series creator George Lucas made to change the films & to make them as consistent as possible to the upcoming prequel trilogy.

On the surface, I actually don’t mind the idea of changing, or touching up a work of art. It’s natural to feel embarrassed over a work of art you did in the past that you want to improve on, & felt the limitations at the time held back one’s vision.

That said, I’m of the opinion that these versions should exist with the original theatrical releases kept also. Changes are also made to the prequels too, with different additions to the films.

I’m of the opinion that these changes should exist, but not at the cost of not distributing the very foundation as to why people enjoyed the films back in the day.

A New Hope & Jedi’s changes being pretty major, while Empire’s not so much. I like the newer changes like Cloud City’s views, Boba Fett’s voice change, the new Jedi ending, the X-Wing segments, the stormtrooper army vs Han, the color corrections, etc. I don’t mind the changes like Hayden being in there, even though I still admit that he should’ve had some de aging to make it seem that Anakin is in his 40s & not his 20s. Even the updated Emperor scene works great for me.

Then there are the other changes that just make you scratch your head. Han vs Greedo is a whole lot of Maclunky. The magically disappearing rock, Obi-Wan’s hernia scream(it was fine in 2004), the ridiculousness in Mos Eisley, Jedi Rocks replacing Lapti Nek that clashes with the tone of Oola’s death. None of these don’t bother me, but the one that does is the stupid NO! that Vader does on the climax of Jedi. It bothers me more than Vader’s new lines in Empire, because the silence was what made the scene great. It was fine back in 2004, but 2011 just had to bring it in there.

At the end of the day, the idea of the unaltered versions being released officially isn’t happening. 1-6 are George’s work. Despite the changes, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the film that much, more so nitpicks. I can still enjoy the first six films fine with the new releases(except Clones). Regardless of my feelings or criticisms, I still hold George with high regard, & his storytelling is still timeless.

At least the fans can update it themselves. Harmy’s Despecialized Edition still exists, & 4K77, 4K80 & 4K83 are still prevalent. I am curious about one thing…… If there were a version of the original Star Wars trilogy that lets you change certain things & remove others, what would you change.

If it were up to me, I’d leave Episode IV as it, besides updating the Aurebesh text, the Han Stormtrooper thing, the 2004 Krayt Dragon call, the hall on the detention center. The rest I’ll leave it as is.

Episode V is perfect, with the only change I’ll bring is the new Emperor scene, updating Cloud City & Boba Fett’s voice. The rest of the film is fine as it is.

Episode VI I’d leave it as is, but I would add the Ewok Celebration, Oola in the Rancor pit, the Sarlaac design, & probably Hayden but age him up in his 40s.

These are things I’m thinking at the top of my mind. Feel free to agree to disagree. Let me know what you think, be respectful & May the force be with you!

“Changing History” of course. And basically what Catbus posted above.

Although I’d also add this

JAJediMaster said:

This is a thread that I wish to discuss, because it’s been a thing of contention since, well, since the Special Editions came out since 1997. The Special Editions are changes that series creator George Lucas made to change the films & to make them as consistent as possible to the upcoming prequel trilogy.

Partially, perhaps. Yet also this, direct from George himself:

On the surface, I actually don’t mind the idea of changing, or touching up a work of art. It’s natural to feel embarrassed over a work of art you did in the past that you want to improve on, & felt the limitations at the time held back one’s vision.

George himself once thought very differently, and emphatically stated so, before the Special Editions:

Also, all of the following quotes are from George Lucas, taken from his speech to the US Congress in 1988, on the >subject of altering films…
 

“American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.”

…

“The public’s interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests.”

…

“It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires.”

…

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.”

…

“People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians.”

…

“Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.”

 
An article with the full speech by George Lucas, at Force Material: ‘George Lucas explains why you shouldn’t digitally alter films’

And there is nothing to be “embarrassed” about with the achievements and raising of the bar that so many talented creative talents strived for and surpassed with making the Original Trilogy. Truly ‘pioneering, ground-breaking, landmark film history’ as is it often described.

A product of its time, as all films are. And not to be erased from history as George wishes it to be:

That said, I’m of the opinion that these versions should exist with the original theatrical releases kept also. Changes are also made to the prequels too, with different additions to the films.

I’m of the opinion that these changes should exist, but not at the cost of not distributing the very foundation as to why people enjoyed the films back in the day.

Absolutely! Why would anyone want to suppress or erase film history?

Give everyone the choice to buy or experience any and all of the many differing cuts that have been released to the public over the years. All in the best quality possible, on a modern digital format. Not just the OT, but also the PT.

At the end of the day, the idea of the unaltered versions being released officially isn’t happening. 1-6 are George’s work. Despite the changes, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the film that much, more so nitpicks. I can still enjoy the first six films fine with the new releases(except Clones). Regardless of my feelings or criticisms, I still hold George with high regard, & his storytelling is still timeless.

No. Sorry, I’ll have to respectfully disagree and correct you with that. Kershner directed Empire Strikes Back, and Marquand directed Return Of The Jedi. So 1-6 are definitely not all George’s work, and they weren’t his to alter, as George admits here:

From Category 39 of the ‘George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…’ thread:
 

An abridged screenshot from JW Rinzler’s ‘The Making Of Episode III’ book; a quoted conversation between Frank Oz and George Lucas…

^ George Lucas: “Seriously, that’s why I’m a member of the Film Foundation (filmmakers for film preservation). A director should be able to change his films - but nobody else.”

At the time of above conversation George Lucas had already made changes to directors Irvin Kershner’s ‘Empire Strikes Back’, and Richard Marquand’s ‘Return Of The Jedi’ - and would also make go on to make further additional changes to both films.
 

Neither the Empire Strikes Back or Return Of The Jedi are available as their respective directors intended, or indeed made, on a modern and quality digital format.

At least the fans can update it themselves. Harmy’s Despecialized Edition still exists, & 4K77, 4K80 & 4K83 are still prevalent.

It really shouldn’t have been left to the fans to do this, and as others have pointed out, not everyone knows about the availability of these simply brilliant fan projects (and others), which originated from here and like-minded sister sites. Not everyone has the know-how to acquire them either, and it would be better to have the option to simply buy and experience any and all the various releases bought on a store shelf, online store, or on Disney+:

https://www.wired.com/story/put-original-star-wars-on-disney-plus
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2020/08/21/what-we-want
#ReleaseTheOriginalTrilogy | OriginalTrilogy.com’s enduring goal | How you can help

be respectful

Sure. That stood out in your post.

It is a pity that so many people have not been respectful at all over the years, usually people having a problem with the Original Trilogy fans, with fans highlighting George’s disingenuous claims (or lies as some put it), his re-writing of the official history, and also with this very site and its members:

The ‘Other websites / communities supposed issues with the OT•com, the Original Trilogy, or the unaltered theatrical cuts’ section of An Index Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion highlights a lot of that, including these posts, here & here, and here, and are also alluded to in the About, Help and Welcome to the OT.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within threads.

I guess you probably knew that before your 1st thread of “Special Editions - Improvement to Film or Changing History?”, and asking for people here to “be respectful”, with an inference that somehow the people on here are not “respectful”?

But of course maybe I am overthinking it, will give you the benefit of the doubt, and look forward to more of your posts.

I am curious about one thing…… If there were a version of the original Star Wars trilogy that lets you change certain things & remove others, what would you change.

If it were up to me, I’d leave Episode IV as it, besides updating the Aurebesh text, the Han Stormtrooper thing, the 2004 Krayt Dragon call, the hall on the detention center. The rest I’ll leave it as is.

Episode V is perfect, with the only change I’ll bring is the new Emperor scene, updating Cloud City & Boba Fett’s voice. The rest of the film is fine as it is.

Episode VI I’d leave it as is, but I would add the Ewok Celebration, Oola in the Rancor pit, the Sarlaac design, & probably Hayden but age him up in his 40s.

These are things I’m thinking at the top of my mind. Feel free to agree to disagree. Let me know what you think, be respectful & May the force be with you!

There are some really cool, fun and informative conversations on many scenes in the Special Editions (introduced mistakes, unfixed errors, which SE alterations are good or not, ideas for more further changes) listed up in the:

An Index & Help Thread for Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases

The Star Wars Fan Edits section also has many differing options for not only the Original Trilogy, but for all of Star Wars.

adwan’s Revisited Editions of the Original Trilogy being an interesting and more complete Special Edition version of the films.
 

There are also some really cool and informative threads and other info like these:

An OriginalTrilogy.com Timeline | a history of the site | the why & how it came to be…
Some useful OT.com threads re the suppression of the theatrical Original Trilogy films
The 'Naysayer Guide’ by people who DON’T want an unaltered theatrical release of the Original Trilogy
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com & https://x.com/StarWarsVisComp
https://savestarwars.com & http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/index.html

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2021/02/27/the-lost-art-of-star-wars
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2019/11/26/list-of-academy-awards-for-the-original-trilogy

and I’m still making my way through the many fascinating threads in An Index & Help Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion

It seems like a pointless topic to raise here of all places, but the problems go well beyond ‘improving’ things if that was ever the true intention. Which is probably wasn’t as most of us already know; George knew about producing and fund raising better than anything else, and a theatrical re-release tied with new effects that used Jurassic Park tech to figure out what could be done in The Phantom Menace was making and saving money all at once.

As stated above there are all kinds of conflicting things he’s said over the many decades, keeping him in the limelight and burying real film history. We have so many threads here about this already and the more he talks the more obvious the lie gets, but Joe Public isn’t that discerning. You can’t even look on IMDB without seeing Episode IV: A New Hope right away despite that not being the right name. They don’t list re-releases and re-iterations as separate entities. Film history is basically gone already at this stage.

Hello there!

Thanks for replying, & offering some insights, discussions, etc. This is the first I’m in Original Trilogy.com, so there are still some other things I needed to get used to.

I wanted to discuss the topic & see what other people felt, because discussing topics like these are super fascinating.

& if there’s any disagreements, that’s understandable. Directors & showrunners are equally important, but the director dictates the film they direct.

All & all, thanks for your time.

There certainly are enhancements which I don’t condemn like cleaned up picture and sound, but I really dislike Han shooting second. I didn’t like the Ronto in frame I thought it was obnoxious. the Stormtroopers riding Banthas is fine. Replacing the awful Landspeeder shot, cardboard cutout in the Throne room, fixing misaligned rotoscope on lightsabers. The recomposites of original film pieces, not the cgi, is done so well I can’t complain. Creating a multi channel digital mix. All fine, the cgi new shots are almost always worse. Always hated the new cgi X-wings over the original effects.

The praxis ring when the death star blows up hate that too.

The Jabba scene I actually like, but it should have stayed out because it and the Greedo scene have repetitious dialog, relay the same information. Slows down the pace of the film. If Lucas wanted more Stormtroopers that Han was chasing he should have filmed them, I hate the CGI added ones.

Lucas hates the original that is the only reason it’s not available. I mean Vanilla Ice in Cool as Ice is on Blu-Ray, but not Star Wars doesn’t that seem absurd.

Though I’d like a 4K disc because I won’t settle for a Blu anymore. Its 2024 Not 2015.

The featurette on the laserdisc is very poor and doesn’t explain the changes well at all. As far as making of or behind the scenes material goes its poor as hell. I think Anatomy of a Dewback is better. I don’t have the Cinefex or American cinematographer special edition material, or ILM Into the Digital realm.

An in depth look at the Special Edition and the why probably never will happen, as it was rushed and sloppily done to r&d the prequel. And somehow George got Fox to pay for it with the excuse of the 20th Anniversary of Star Wars.

On the featurette McCallum says if we don’t do this, we will never have the film to release again, but isn’t that what happened with the original being lost. They didn’t restore the movie its left in an unrestored state even now. The Special Edition isn’t the film.