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The Last Jedi: Rekindled (Released) — Page 39

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poppasketti said:

I think regardless of whether we need to push it further and tweak a little more, the ending will not have the rebel ring!

smpearce1981, thanks for pushing me on the idea and bringing the proof of concept with the speeder to get it all to work. I will probably tweak the movement of the ship a little more, but otherwise I think it’s close!

As for your suggestions for the ending, I’ve tried rearranging the shots in different ways, including the way you suggested, but I can say confidently that it wont’t work. For one, it feels like a jump-cut to go from the hyperspace shot to the wide of the boy. More importantly, the music cue when ship streaks across the stars is inextricably linked to the shot. It’s so perfectly executed by John Williams that breaking them apart feels wrong. That leaves the few seconds as the music is swelling, where we really only have two shots to work with: the 2nd closeup of the boy and the end shot. We can play with lengthening one and shortening the other, but that’s about the extent of it. Still, thanks for the suggestion!

Axios said:
One question though, it seams Rose lost her “no” line…was that intentional, cause right now she is just mouthing the word and looks a bit strange. Does it have to do with the louder line?

That’s a mistake, thanks for catching! I’ll recheck the sequence tomorrow.

It’s totally my pleasure, although it feels wrong that I am accepting any gratitude from you, Not because it isn’t welcome but because it’s me who’s grateful.

I’m very aware that as a member of this community who doesn’t contribute any content, that sometimes any comments or suggestions I make can seem a bit rich? Expecting people more skilled than me to listen to my ideas/opinions on the work that they have devoted their own blood sweat and tears into producing without having those skills myself.

This seemed like a unique opportunity where I could make a suggestion and actually offer something up to support it, whether it was used or not, at least I was bringing something to the table?

So, I’m thrilled that you even took the time to look at it, let alone implement it…and hence my gratitude.

With regard to your comments on the Broom Boy sequence:- of course you had tried every possible combination! I apologise if my suggestions were like teaching you to suck eggs.

As above, I don’t like to be one of those people who makes any sort of criticism (no matter how minor) without bringing anything constructive to the table, even if that is just explaining my thought process.

Anyhow, thanks again, Poppa. I LOVE what you are doing over here.

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poppasketti said:

I think regardless of whether we need to push it further and tweak a little more, the ending will not have the rebel ring!

smpearce1981, thanks for pushing me on the idea and bringing the proof of concept with the speeder to get it all to work. I will probably tweak the movement of the ship a little more, but otherwise I think it’s close!

I just had another thought on some fine detail that might help sell the finish on Finn’s speeder getting shot down?

Looking at the Finn close up and reaction shot at 01.12 (in the clip)

He closes his eyes in preparation to die, then we have our sound cue of the blast which causes him to react by looking to his right (our left)

Could a flash or even a sparks/flame element be added from the left of frame, in sync with the sound cue and his reaction to visually indicate the blast too?

I think it might just help blend the edit into the following external shot of the speeder taking the hit…since when we cut to that shot, the speeder is already partially destroyed? (I know this is due to editing out Rose’s speeder) so visually implying the impact in the shot before should help bridge that nano-second gap in the visuals?

It;s something you may have dabbled with previously, and it may not work…but since we are looking at the fine details of these moments with fresh eyes, it was something that crossed my mind?

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Actually, I’ve already added sparks and lightning effects (even some sounds) to the Finn shot in the cockpit! You might not have a before and after ready, but there’s definitely a few new elements to the moment where Finn turns his head.

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poppasketti said:

Actually, I’ve already added sparks and lightning effects (even some sounds) to the Finn shot in the cockpit! You might not have a before and after ready, but there’s definitely a few new elements to the moment where Finn turns his head.

Ha!! that’s BRILLIANT.

No, I haven’t seen those additions…but I’m going to go check it out right now!

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Yes, to be clear, it’s not a recent addition, it’s always been a part of Rekindled. If you look to the left before he turns, some sparks fly, and there’s a flash of brightness on the left side of the cockpit and his face.

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poppasketti said:

Yes, to be clear, it’s not a recent addition, it’s always been a part of Rekindled. If you look to the left before he turns, some sparks fly, and there’s a flash of brightness on the left side of the cockpit and his face.

Saw it! it was quite well hidden due to it being amongst the red colour casting/colour grade of the battering ram beam, but yup, I see it now.

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Ok, made slight updates to the Rebel Ring shot timing and Finn speeder targeting screen (even a tweak to the Finn cockpit shot), which is posted to the same vimeo links. Currently, I’m rendering out a new workprint, which should be ready tonight and posted tomorrow. Thank you!

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Hi Poppam

That targeting screen looks AMAZING. I can’t tell exactly what you’ve done to refine it from the first pass, but it looks so good (it even looks like the speeder’s perspective is slightly changing as it gets closer!) You’ve Absolutely NAILED IT!

Broom boy also looks great now! Whatever you’ve shaved off is now really working!!

Re: The tweak to Finn’s cockpit shot, would I pushing my luck and/or your patience to ask that you go further with the blast flash? Whether it’s increase it’s saturation further into frame and/oror extend out the duration by a few frames?

My point of reference here and what actually brought me to even bring it up is seeing what you did with Rose being shot down.

So I analysed both sequences frame by frame.

Rose’s shoot down, the event seems to take place over 5 key frames? And the blast eats approx 1/4 into the frame (not including the reflection element you added…NICE TOUCH!)

What also works nicely to sell it is that the surrounding contrast of the sand planes and a grey-ish speeder in full natural daylight allows the red/yellow explosion animation to show itself nicely.

When breaking down Finn’s shot, it seems the primary event takes place over 3 frames, is quite considerably less intrusive into the frame (by design due to the distance he is sitting from the wing) and the overall orange colour ambience of the shot also serves to camoflage the lighting elements you’ve added in?..which probably explains why I missed it the first time…the overall speed of the event and the colouring?

So I was wondering whether it might be worth pushing this a bit further?

Maybe a whiter flash/explosion that last a few more frames, and enters into the frame a touch more?

The shot could even end with the element still in shot as it encroaches further inward?

Anyhow, you might have tried all this in the past and it might not have worked and hence subtle might have been the way to go here?

I can tell you’ve tried to keep the effect natural. It IS correct in relation to the geography/distance of the impact and the colour of the explosion, which is consistent with what you’d expect in real life.

But I wonder if you might need to exaggerate the effect in order to compensate for the overall colouring of the shot? and considering how well you sold Rose getting shot down, I figured it might be worth comparing the subtle version against a more extreme version of the same idea to see what sells the moment best overall?

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Hi poppasketti,

While Hals Legendary edit has always been my go to for TLJ myself and a few others have been keep to see the third lession scene reinserted back in.
This will also mean having the caretakes back in the background to a degee but the lession conveys so well to Rey and us the audiense that Jedi of old would rather meditate over “their” force then get involved in other peoples problems. This strengthens beliefs as to why Luke is in isolation and his reasoning as to let the Jedi of old end.

Lukes 3rd Lession
Lukes 3rd Lession Clip

Hals stated he does’nt have any interest in an alternate version of TLJ Legenday with this scene and caretakers but would this be something you’d entertain?

“We Are What They Grow Beyond” - Yoda


My Prefered Saga Viewing Preference:
Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith Special Edition (StankPac Edit) * Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. IV - A New Hope D+77 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. V - Empire Strikes Back D+80 (OohTeeDee Edit)
Ep. VI - Return of The Jedi OTD83 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. VII - The Force Awakens Restructured (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi Legendary (Hal 9000 Edit) * Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker Ascendant (Hal 9000 Edit)

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Darth Muffy said:

Hi poppasketti,

While Hals Legendary edit has always been my go to for TLJ myself and a few others have been keep to see the third lession scene reinserted back in.
This will also mean having the caretakes back in the background to a degee but the lession conveys so well to Rey and us the audiense that Jedi of old would rather meditate over “their” force then get involved in other peoples problems. This strengthens beliefs as to why Luke is in isolation and his reasoning as to let the Jedi of old end.

Lukes 3rd Lession
Lukes 3rd Lession Clip

Hals stated he does’nt have any interest in an alternate version of TLJ Legenday with this scene and caretakers but would this be something you’d entertain?

Hey, Bud

Not to speak for anyone else but I think the decision across multiple edits is that the amount of work required to complete the abandoned VFX on this sequence in order for it not to seem thrown in or bolted on as an after thought is too much for many editors to justify the time/trouble?

I could be very wrong, and it’s certainly not my place to pass comment but that’s just what I’ve gleaned from similar questions being asked previously?

I am curious though and just as a means of having a conversation, what is it that you prefer about HAL’s TLJ? Not that there’s anything wrong with that view! (I really am just being curious?)

Hal’s TFA: Restructured is my go to cut of TFA

I really think Hal fully unlocked the magic within that movie.

However, Poppa win’s it for me with his TLJ Rekindled. I know his project started on the foundation of Hal’s Legendary, but I really feel he’s found his rhythm with this project now and it’s really starting to take on a life of it’s own to the same extent as Hal’s TFA and hence I don’t think I could go back to the original cut now.

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@Poppasketti, do you plan on fixing the editing error in the throne room fight?

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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poppasketti said:

Ok, made slight updates to the Rebel Ring shot timing and Finn speeder targeting screen (even a tweak to the Finn cockpit shot), which is posted to the same vimeo links. Currently, I’m rendering out a new workprint, which should be ready tonight and posted tomorrow. Thank you!

Hey Poppa,

I promise I’ll leave you alone soon, but I just caught something else that I thought I might present to you?

It’s not so much of a change, but actually the undoing of a change?

The former deleted scene of Finn and Rose abourd the shuttle immediately after their escape from the ‘Supremacy’:-

That’s always stuck out to me. There’s nothing wrong with it, at least technically, but it just doesn’t ‘sit right’

I can’t tell if it’s tonally, where it’s just a quiet dialogue moment after such a bombastic sequence feeling jarring?

Or whether it’s unfinished VFX? Where the first shot appears too static and like a cheap set? (I don’t know whether adding in a reflection to indicate a screen/canopy would help with that?)

But something isn’t quite right, so I wondered whether it was worth asking the question on whether the information/dialogue delivered justifies it’s inclusion?

I’m sure some could argue that it plays into Finn’s arc of acceptance and belonging amongst the resistance by him stating that they are heading to ‘where they belong’ but I’m not sure that theme is part of Finn’s journey in TLJ? It’s more of an un-needed carry over from TFA.

By the start of TLJ he’s already part of the inner circle and the only reason he tries to leave and gets mistaken for a deserter is out of concern for Rey and not wanting her to return to the danger, so I don’t think his sense of belonging is relevant and in need of affirming within this scene and hence it could be deemed redundant?

To compound the above, part of me wonders if taking it back to the original edit here actually adds some tension when Finn and Rose approach the bunker on Crait?

Not that it was ever super suspenseful, but having enough time to almost forget that Finn and Rose are out there and potentially enroute means that when they do show up it’s more of a homecoming/surprise/crowd pleaser?

There’s also the question of whether deescalating their situation here is a false flag(?), considering the next time we see them they are inexplicably being pursued by two TIE Fighters?

I know you could argue that the original sequence doesn’t explain this either, but aside from escaping the capital ship explosion, their fates were unresolved and there wasn’t any overt indication that they were fully out of peril? So, I quite like that by the time they are properly re-united with their friends, they have been through quite an ordeal!

They just survived near execution and a capital ship explosion, launched a daring escape in an enemy shuttle, been chased by TIE’s where they narrowly manage to get home but not before getting involved in a fiery crash and then coming under under friendly fire. They go through all of this before they are afforded any sort of respite.

I think giving them the breather that this scene allows not only slows the momentum out of the movie at a point that doesn’t feel organic but also potentially detracts from the character’s resilience all the while without really bringing anything new to the table?

I don’t know, I’m sorry to bombard you with ideas for changes etc, but I feel you are really getting into the final run on this project now, so I figure now might have just been a good time to go over things that have just sort of been there, never offending but not really bringing anything either?

I’ve got no issue with the scene itself or it’s presence in the cut but I do know that every time I see it, I do notice it, it feels added in and pulls me out of the flow of events whereas nothing in the rest of the movie does that, so I wondered what your thoughts on it’s continued inclusion were?

UPDATE:-

I just read through the ‘changes log’ to see if I could get behind the reason of the inclusion of the scene.

I see now that it’s a callback or in service to the earlier deleted scene that was restored between Finn and Poe.

That makes sense, and I can see the logic here…but I can honestly say that I had never put those pieces together!?

As I have never made that connection on any of the multiple times I have watched this, is it possible that that first moment between Finn and Poe just doesn’t resonate enough to carry all the way through to that point in the film and then hit it’s mark? If not, does it still warrant the callback in what may otherwise be a potentially redundant scene?

I think the first deleted scene has a LOT of merit. It’s dynamic, fast paced and has some really good, snappy character interaction and it serves the purpose of bringing Finn up to speed on the events he wasn’t party to at the end of TFA.

To offer my objective opinion, I think it’s THIS scene that is the payoff, where Finn’s arc from TFA is fully resolved (even though it’s delivered in a way that makes it seem like it’s no big deal…)

We, the audience have never really had any doubts about where Finn’s allegiances lie or whether or not he’s a coward, so maybe it’s Ok that the movie doesn’t make a big song and dance about it either and just moves on to other things by the 20 min mark?

It’s actually within the spirit of TLJ to drop the threads and conventions it doesn’t have any interest in exploring, so maybe this approach is right on point? 😃

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StarkillerAG said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

@Poppasketti, do you plan on fixing the editing error in the throne room fight?

How, exactly?

It’s not very noticable, and trying to fix it would probably create even more problems, so it’s not really worth it in my opinion.

Simple: VFX. brings up Snoke’s “Sith death”, the reflection on the window shot after the Raddus is hit, etc.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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Please keep the Finn/Rose shuttle scene. The pacing doesn’t work with that and the Phasma fight gone.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

StarkillerAG said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

@Poppasketti, do you plan on fixing the editing error in the throne room fight?

How, exactly?

It’s not very noticable, and trying to fix it would probably create even more problems, so it’s not really worth it in my opinion.

Simple: VFX.

That’s what I was asking though. What kind of VFX? What is your idea of how to fix it? I’ve seen many attempted solutions, but none of them really work.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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smpearce1981 said:

poppasketti said:

Ok, made slight updates to the Rebel Ring shot timing and Finn speeder targeting screen (even a tweak to the Finn cockpit shot), which is posted to the same vimeo links. Currently, I’m rendering out a new workprint, which should be ready tonight and posted tomorrow. Thank you!

Hey Poppa,

I promise I’ll leave you alone soon, but I just caught something else that I thought I might present to you?

It’s not so much of a change, but actually the undoing of a change?

The former deleted scene of Finn and Rose abourd the shuttle immediately after their escape from the ‘Supremacy’:-

That’s always stuck out to me. There’s nothing wrong with it, at least technically, but it just doesn’t ‘sit right’

I can’t tell if it’s tonally, where it’s just a quiet dialogue moment after such a bombastic sequence feeling jarring?

Or whether it’s unfinished VFX? Where the first shot appears too static and like a cheap set? (I don’t know whether adding in a reflection to indicate a screen/canopy would help with that?)

But something isn’t quite right, so I wondered whether it was worth asking the question on whether the information/dialogue delivered justifies it’s inclusion?

I’m sure some could argue that it plays into Finn’s arc of acceptance and belonging amongst the resistance by him stating that they are heading to ‘where they belong’ but I’m not sure that theme is part of Finn’s journey in TLJ? It’s more of an un-needed carry over from TFA.

By the start of TLJ he’s already part of the inner circle and the only reason he tries to leave and gets mistaken for a deserter is out of concern for Rey and not wanting her to return to the danger, so I don’t think his sense of belonging is relevant and in need of affirming within this scene and hence it could be deemed redundant?

To compound the above, part of me wonders if taking it back to the original edit here actually adds some tension when Finn and Rose approach the bunker on Crait?

Not that it was ever super suspenseful, but having enough time to almost forget that Finn and Rose are out there and potentially enroute means that when they do show up it’s more of a homecoming/surprise/crowd pleaser?

There’s also the question of whether deescalating their situation here is a false flag(?), considering the next time we see them they are inexplicably being pursued by two TIE Fighters?

I know you could argue that the original sequence doesn’t explain this either, but aside from escaping the capital ship explosion, their fates were unresolved and there wasn’t any overt indication that they were fully out of peril? So, I quite like that by the time they are properly re-united with their friends, they have been through quite an ordeal!

They just survived near execution and a capital ship explosion, launched a daring escape in an enemy shuttle, been chased by TIE’s where they narrowly manage to get home but not before getting involved in a fiery crash and then coming under under friendly fire. They go through all of this before they are afforded any sort of respite.

I think giving them the breather that this scene allows not only slows the momentum out of the movie at a point that doesn’t feel organic but also potentially detracts from the character’s resilience all the while without really bringing anything new to the table?

I don’t know, I’m sorry to bombard you with ideas for changes etc, but I feel you are really getting into the final run on this project now, so I figure now might have just been a good time to go over things that have just sort of been there, never offending but not really bringing anything either?

I’ve got no issue with the scene itself or it’s presence in the cut but I do know that every time I see it, I do notice it, it feels added in and pulls me out of the flow of events whereas nothing in the rest of the movie does that, so I wondered what your thoughts on it’s continued inclusion were?

UPDATE:-

I just read through the ‘changes log’ to see if I could get behind the reason of the inclusion of the scene.

I see now that it’s a callback or in service to the earlier deleted scene that was restored between Finn and Poe.

That makes sense, and I can see the logic here…but I can honestly say that I had never put those pieces together!?

As I have never made that connection on any of the multiple times I have watched this, is it possible that that first moment between Finn and Poe just doesn’t resonate enough to carry all the way through to that point in the film and then hit it’s mark? If not, does it still warrant the callback in what may otherwise be a potentially redundant scene?

I think the first deleted scene has a LOT of merit. It’s dynamic, fast paced and has some really good, snappy character interaction and it serves the purpose of bringing Finn up to speed on the events he wasn’t party to at the end of TFA.

To offer my objective opinion, I think it’s THIS scene that is the payoff, where Finn’s arc from TFA is fully resolved (even though it’s delivered in a way that makes it seem like it’s no big deal…)

We, the audience have never really had any doubts about where Finn’s allegiances lie or whether or not he’s a coward, so maybe it’s Ok that the movie doesn’t make a big song and dance about it either and just moves on to other things by the 20 min mark?

It’s actually within the spirit of TLJ to drop the threads and conventions it doesn’t have any interest in exploring, so maybe this approach is right on point? 😃

I think if you’re going to excise the Phasma fight, the inclusion of this scene is pretty necessary to complete Finn’s story, such as it is. His story isn’t strong in TLJ, so similar to TFA that I didn’t get the distinction the first couple times I watched it. So his arc isn’t about being accepted by the Resistance (which we see in the first deleted scene with Poe), but rather about accepting his own place within the Resistance and that he is a part of their struggle. You’re right in that after TFA the audience never really doubts his allegiance, but the film does attempt to plant that doubt immediately and then resolve it toward the end. Finn’s story comes to a head in the theatrical after he bests Phasma and refers to himself as “rebel scum”. So in absence of that line, I think the subsequent deleted scene becomes much more necessary in solidifying his character arc in the film.

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Exactly.

I do think some more window reflection/enhancement would be welcome if it’s possible, but it’s not massively distracting as is IMO.

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Hal 9000 said:

What was done to the Broom Boy scene?

The last two shots of the scene have been extended, allowing the rebel ring to be removed without disrupting the music. If you didn’t notice any changes, then it probably worked.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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ChainsawAsh said:

Exactly.

I do think some more window reflection/enhancement would be welcome if it’s possible, but it’s not massively distracting as is IMO.

I can see the points presented by the last few posts here, so maybe the first shot of the scene just needs a little ‘something’ to help smooth it in to the edit?

As above maybe a glass/screen-esque reflection? or maybe some slight camera shake/motion to sort of replicate the use of a gimbal? Maybe both?

I think it’s just that the shot looks too ‘clean’, the only way I can describe it is that it feels like it’s shot on a low budget TV set?

I’d argue that Rose and Finn also seem too clean and relaxed considering what they’ve been through?..but there’s nothing that you can do with the performance aspect.

However Poppa IS a genius with shot manipulation so maybe if he deems it worthwhile he can do something with that aspect to help massage it in so that it just doesn’t seem so tonally distinct from what preceded it?

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ChainsawAsh said:

Please keep the Finn/Rose shuttle scene. The pacing doesn’t work with that and the Phasma fight gone.

Very true. The shuttle scene is also great for Finn’s arc.

heil Palpatine!

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FreezingTNT2 said:

@Poppasketti, do you plan on fixing the editing error in the throne room fight?

This is actually quite an easy fix that I managed to do myself. All you have to do is remove the swing that Rey does with her lightsaber. You can see the guard’s weapon during her attack. It’s when her body covers it up that it vanishes behind her. So if you simply excise the part where you can see the guard’s weapon (during her swing), you can assume that the guard dropped it while they were fighting offscreen.