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STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED ** — Page 59

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adywan said:

Ever since i first saw the movie in 1983, i have hated that scene. A gonk droid feeling pain? Seriously? Pretty much sums up the things wrong with that movie.

I really hate to say this, but droids feeling pain has already been established as canon in ESB Revisted. At 1:56:44 when R2-D2 is welding C-3PO’s foot, Threepio says, ‘Ouch! Pay attention to what you’re doing!’ when Artoo’s welding goes slightly awry.

If Threepio can feel pain, it’s not unreasonable to think other droids can as well… even gonks.

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timdiggerm said:

Another reason that shot is awful: It’s comes off as funny, but it shows torture.

They may be kids films, but torture has been part of Star Wars from the beginning; arms or hands being chopped off in every film, Leia’s interrogation droid / mind probe in Star Wars, Han on the torture rack in Empire, Han being bound and nearly eaten by the ewoks in Jedi, and of course the ultimate torture scene of the saga, the Emperor using force lightning on Luke at the end of Jedi.

How is the gonk torture scene fundamentally any different? Torture is torture. You say that to you it comes off as being funny, and if that is your opinion, I believe you. However, it never seemed that way to me, either watching it as a kid in 1983 or as an adult today. The scene is there to show the jeopardy Threepio and Artoo find themselves in at Jabba’s Palace. Of course if Ady doesn’t like it, it’s his edit and so he has a perfect right to remove it, but I for one would miss it.

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I think a human/cyborg relations droid expressing pain is different from a box with legs that I think is basically a walking battery?

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

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I FEEL PAIN

BUT NOT THAT KIND OF PAIN

YOU ALL WOULDNT UNDERSTAND

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doubleofive said:

I think a human/cyborg relations droid expressing pain is different from a box with legs that I think is basically a walking battery?

Again, if that’s your opinion, you’re perfectly entitled to it 😃. Since there is no right or wrong answer to this hypothetical question, you’re not wrong because you can’t be. Neither can I. However, personally I find it an extraordinary and implausible distinction since they’re both basically machines. If we try to apply some logic to the Star Wars universe (which I’ll be the first to admit is always a bad idea! 😉), since the droids we see throughout the saga are clearly sentient, if they’re capable of being programmed to feel pain, then there’s absolutely no reason not to do it. The benefit to the droid is obvious, and it’s the same reason humans feel pain; to know when they’re being injured so they can try to do something to stop it. On that basis, the gonk droid would be able to feel pain and hence that ability could be exploited to torture it.

I’m not going to claim it’s my favourite scene of the saga, or even Jedi, but I certainly don’t hate it. There are far more deserving candidates for excision, IMHO, namely almost all of the Special Edition changes apart from Oola’s scenes and the animated Sarlaac arms (but not the beak, obviously; that abomination can be binned and won’t be missed by anybody).

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NeverarGreat said:

I don’t think that the Gonk torture was intended to be humorous

I’m pretty sure it was (the humor of the OT is always intended to be… even in the PT but in the PT humor almost never works).

But if the point of view is realism I’d like to remind that SW is fantasy not science-fiction.

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I’m quite sure it was intended to be funny. And I’m quite sure it fell flat.

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TV’s Frink said:

I’m quite sure it was intended to be funny. And I’m quite sure it fell flat.

I think so too.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Tantive3+1 said:

When Luke is hiding from Vader while he’s speaking to him saying “If you will not turn to the dark side…”, he’s holding another unlit lightsaber in his left hand (supposedly meant to be Luke’s that he threw at Vader to show that he won’t fight him).

Interesting! But in this scene, Luke hasn’t thrown his saber away yet. Certainly looks like his though. Really interesting!

TV’s Frink said:

I’m quite sure it [robot torture scene] was intended to be funny. And I’m quite sure it fell flat.

Yep. That robots can feel pain is established in ESB (3PO hits his head and R2 burns 3PO’s foot), but the torture scene is just terrible.
Whether it’s supposed to establish comedy or drama, it fails either way.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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I’m going to miss the loss of the droid torture. It may have been a bit too comedic for some, but I don’t think it particularly ruined anything. I thought how it transitioned from the No, No, No to the Wooo of the Lapti Nek scene was great. Forget Jedi Rocks.

And I’m not sure what to think about the new ending. I’m sure however Ady pulls it off will look fantastic. It’s just I liked seeing the happy ending with everyone together celebrating.

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A protocol droid being able to feel pain ( or the appearance of pain) and a walking battery being programmed to feel pain are two entirely different things. Protocol droids were made to have a human like appearance and , in the case of 3P0 especially, human traits. These things would have been programmed into them because of their function: to converse with other life forms. A Gonk droid is just a walking battery. Why bother programming any emotions into something like that?

One the main reasons i hated that scene from the first time i saw it is the god awful voice is was given. Suddenly a gonk droid can talk and say “no”? It was given a babyish vocal and sounded ridiculous. If that was supposed to show the droids peril in Jabbas palace, then it fell completely flat and made something that could have been perilous into another facepalm humour moment. And, if it was meant to be humorous, it failed because no one laughed during the many showing i saw in '83, and this was back when the audience got involved with the film, cheering, clapping etc. The droid being pulled apart had the same stupid kiddy vocalising. That type of silly-vocal style plagued ROTJ and then grew with the prequels (and then the new=SE with obi-wan’s howl). Then we have salacious crumb, Chewies Tarzan yell, the ewok during the speeder chase…Even R2 suffered with his now baby like sounds. Ridiculous sound effects/ vocals. These things have to be changed. There are so many parts of ROTJ that just seem like a failed, comedic parody of Star Wars.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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I’d be fine with the droid being pulled apart as long as the SFX are made to be less, as you say, “baby-like.”

The Gonk droid torture has got to go, though.

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Spot on Ady regarding everything you said above.

The below is also very close to what I was about to say regarding the droid feeling pain matter:

adywan said:
Protocol droids were made to have a human like appearance and , in the case of 3P0 especially, human traits. These things would have been programmed into them because of their function: to converse with other life forms.

.Val

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ChainsawAsh said:

I’d be fine with the droid being pulled apart as long as the SFX are made to be less, as you say, “baby-like.”

The Gonk droid torture has got to go, though.

Agreed.

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adywan said:

A protocol droid being able to feel pain ( or the appearance of pain) and a walking battery being programmed to feel pain are two entirely different things. Protocol droids were made to have a human like appearance and , in the case of 3P0 especially, human traits. These things would have been programmed into them because of their function: to converse with other life forms. A Gonk droid is just a walking battery. Why bother programming any emotions into something like that?

One the main reasons i hated that scene from the first time i saw it is the god awful voice is was given. Suddenly a gonk droid can talk and say “no”? It was given a babyish vocal and sounded ridiculous. If that was supposed to show the droids peril in Jabbas palace, then it fell completely flat and made something that could have been perilous into another facepalm humour moment. And, if it was meant to be humorous, it failed because no one laughed during the many showing i saw in '83, and this was back when the audience got involved with the film, cheering, clapping etc. The droid being pulled apart had the same stupid kiddy vocalising. That type of silly-vocal style plagued ROTJ and then grew with the prequels (and then the new=SE with obi-wan’s howl). Then we have salacious crumb, Chewies Tarzan yell, the ewok during the speeder chase…Even R2 suffered with his now baby like sounds. Ridiculous sound effects/ vocals. These things have to be changed. There are so many parts of ROTJ that just seem like a failed, comedic parody of Star Wars.

Claps

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I made a quick mock up of what the ending of ROTJ:R might look like since Ady confirmed that the final scene will be Luke and Vader.

Video Link:
https://vimeo.com/246201394

Password:
fire

Sound effects were added in and the ending music from ROTS was used to streamline the mock-up. I’m not too sure where the force ghosts could be edited in but I’m sure Ady will think of something.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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Adywan, do you plan on changing the font used on “RETURN OF THE JEDI” in the title crawl to the font used for The Empire a Strikes Back and A New Hope’s crawls? Sorry for asking again if you have already answered this.

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I remember some time long ago when I was watching ROTJ with a girlfriend and when she saw Salacious Crumb (just like in the gif that Duracell posted), she asked me, “Is that thing some kind of goiter with a head? They look attached.” I just smiled and said, “Nope, it’s worse than that.” I am relieved it sounds like we may be seeing Crumb (and his laughing) less often 😉

Glad to also hear that about the gonk droid; indeed the torture had an uncomfortably childish vibe about it. I had thought it could’ve been improved if just the cartoonish yells were replaced with better, more-robotic sounds, and the mechanisms corrected to actually touch his feet, but I am also all for Ady removing it… would something else have to be inserted in it’s place, though?

And just another random but related story: As a youngster, I used to think that droid was shooting air out from the bottom of its feet, as a defense mechanism, which blew away and prevented the hot plate from touching him 😃

Wishlist Of Ideas/Suggestions For Improving ROTJ

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.Mac. said:

And just another random but related story: As a youngster, I used to think that droid was shooting air out from the bottom of its feet, as a defense mechanism, which blew away and prevented the hot plate from touching him 😃

It would not surprise me in the least if the EU ever made that canon.