Ronster

darth_ender said:

We were talking about the Lost Rebel footage in the deleted scene thread.  While watching it (not available at the moment), I noticed some lines that seem to reveal some sort of mission objective.  I remember some lines about taking out a tower.  What objective might this have represented? If possible, how might we even possibly use these lines to reconstruct this plot point in our edit?  It doesn't necessarily have be what they had in mind (for instance, we could use it to show fighters attacking a star destroyer bridge tower (maybe even the Executor!), the shield generator specifically, a cannon tower on the Death Star, or anything like that.

Another discussion (I can't remember where I read it, probably somewhere in the ESB and ROTJ wishlist thread) discussed the inconsistent appearing cockpits vs the ships.  It'd be nice to better match the dialogue of the pilots with the appropriate ships.

But timdiggerm brought up that it might be best to simply film new pilots.  Anyone know where costumes might be obtained for the various pilots?  And I suppose we could composite in the actual cockpits.

could re-use some footage from "a new hope" for the towers might work quite well...Better to have the deleted scenes restored if possible..... What's the audio like on those clips? every thing got -redubbed in ROTJ anyway so it may all need re-dubbing unless somone can do good fish face impressions.

If the source audio is not very good it can be hard to clean up whilst maintaining good sound quality....

all my ideas will generally incorporate 2 mixed elements background foreground composites and an audio mix occasionally

Only want to use existing footage I'm not looking to do anything too fancy :) like loads of CGI modelling would make it too much like the PT anyway and be a sore thumb.

also just occurred to me the lost rebel pilot footage might be better used a way to see the rebels slowly be destroyed, if the Audio is unsalvageable rather than a majority of the time they are on top.

Angels Mattes look very good and would be a nice enhancement.

@ben__danger some good ideas there my fav has to be chewie sliding down the rope to get to AT-ST is a vast improvement!

Evin Jade said:

Just my 2 cents)

 

credit to original Angel's mockup.

lol, did not realise it had already been realised, although I am thinking of storyboarding the shot where he get's up flipped and reversed for a few frames composited on Lukes swing of the lightsabre just before it comes off so it looks as if he is flinching a little to late....

whilst editing it I realised only after the obvious removals of Han hitting his pack you could actually loop bobba flying from barge to barge after luke makes his jump and fighting him forever :)

jonathan7 said:

Just my two cents here, but I really like the idea of Boba Fett being killed by Luke, think it harkens back nicely to Mace killing Jango. I also would argue to keep the original Luke and Leia conversation rather than changing it...

Thanks still yet to see if the complete sequence of Bobba's demise is totally possible...but I don't think it's too ambitious but like you said calls back to what happened before and atleast Bobba gets a hit in also.

Since doing a rough cut of the third act I am all for making Luke want to protect leia but not telling her she is his Sister but it's not all down to me so we shall see what the final decision is, Darth Ender will finish his script and we will go from there. Nothing is set in Stone yet

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

What luck!  Our team may finally be complete (or mostly complete).  Emanswfan is fixing up the deleted scenes and is working on the ROTJ scenes in particular right now.  I'm not sure if he wants to be an official contributor here, but I know I really would appreciate his efforts:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Deleted-Scenes-Reincorporated/post/555996/#TopicPost555996

Thank the maker!

Tis good news indeed, cannot wait to get rolling..

[/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Concept Art for the exchange

Got to grips with Gimp Editor and this is one of my first concepts don't want to divulge too much about this because I have not figured it all out as a solid concept as yet but involves a short sequence similar to gangster movies exchanging a briefcase. Except the briefcase is a droid. Star wars answer to the USB Data stick hehe....No need for any actors either. "toss the briefcase over here" if you think along those lines and a double cross thats where I am headed cliched scene but in a star wars universe...Bounty hunting lucrative work when you get paid twice for doing the same job hehe.... but not quite ready on submitting the full idea as of yet. You need to click the box to see it on the page for some reason probably advertising.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/theexchange.jpg/

woah Angel,

I guess i am a bit flabbergasted by your answer because theres alot to it that i could not even begin to fathom, on a first read.

Taking movie stills is a good start for storyboards. Always notice the camera movement so you know where you can place a new element or you want to replace/rescale the shot to fit somewhere else. Avoid flipped shots unless they are not affecting crusial details from the character.

If it's better for you folks for me to do stills then I'll do that in future, and mark it up.

So lighting in 2 elements makes a big difference also I will definatley keep this in mind. But I am not really an Visual Artist, so any stills that I do might be of poor quality but I will hope it can be interpreted.

I was flipping shots with the sequence I did like crazy to get it to work, so re-using elements if you will some of that could probably go it was a first attempt anyhow.

I'll try and get to grips with gimp editor, for my stills I literally been playing with footage and seeing what could work and what don't as it's already existing. But I will convey any further story boarding in Stills.

Thanks for your Post it has helped me understand a bit better....

I think it's already at about 60% thrashed out.. It's the first act thats the problem IMO. My ideas will always try to include exiting footage anyway...

I can do some sound edit work to good effect like SFX or Dubbing in sounds so ask me on that if anyone wants sounds or music too.

aalenfae said:

I mainly do composition and the like. I can rotoscope, and I can also make mattes (but not nearly as well as Angel can).

Most of my work is in moving video - motion tracking, rotoscoping, etc. 

As far as CGI goes, most of my work is just in the composition, as I mainly used 3D models from Sci-Fi 3D. But I could definitely render them more realistically and such.

 

Basically, I can do a little bit of everything, and I'm pretty confident I can at least partially do many of the visual changes you would like to do. I can't know for sure until I know what will be done shot-by-shot. 

Thanks for your reply... Check the link on the previous page... There is a breakdown but somthings I did not point out...that would need fixing Basically I just do not want to make pie in the sky suggestions, I want to be realistic about my ideas.

And obviously cheat in the easiests ways possible if you get my meaning.

I am also curious about the actual Final Video footage would probably have to be downgraded to that of the deleted scenes? is it possible to convert the video down and enhance the deleted scenes to make it meet somwhere in the middle?

@dominiccobb

Yeah I was thinking one or the other. I feel once he's in the Sarlaac we're done with him. And his head would probably be in the sand.

yeah very quick shot of head in the sand then transition to body in the pit makes more sence. I think somehow it makes jabbas reaction funnier in a way with his head being the last thing we see...but like you say it feels a bit weird.

Angel said:

darth_ender said:

I want to make sure we don't lose too much steam on this project, so I guess now would be the time to ask what Angel and Aalenfae are willing to do.  I believe Angel created most of the mattes and such on the wishlist.  Which of those are you interested in doing?  If you were to ask for my preference, I would say all of them!  They really are stunning.  Aalenfae, what kinds of changes are you able and willing to make?  Your CGI mockup looked great as a start, and I'm wondering if you can produce even more realistic ships and the like.  Is what we are discussing even fair to ask of you?

What shots do you like? Note that many of the mattes i did were for preview reasons and they have to be created from scratch and to their 4 or 8K format for a film production.

Let me know what shots are you interested in.

-Angel

Angel, I don't understand compuer graphics intergration in Movies or compositing so please can you help me understand what is hard to do and what is easier for my story boarding. My friend said it's easy to do a still image in photoshop but when it comes to video it is more difficult?

The reason I am asking is because when I make any further mock up storyboard suggestions I do not want to be suggesting things that are not possible.... So please can you tell me is my bobba fett mock-up storyboard possible? And have people in mind when I come up with somthing.

I have no idea if my suggestions are either ridiculously difficult or relativley easy so some insight would really help me out or guidlines to keep within for the future. As the mock-ups on the wish list are only stills pretty much, and from what I can gather this is not so easy when putting it onto video.

Is the process similar to photoshopping each frame of the movie or more than that?

fishmanlee said:

darth_ender said:

Ronster said:

my favourite line....So Far

Oola and the fat female dancer performs... Lapti Nek is much sleazier and fits the setting better IMO

I hate both songs and the accompanying puppets or CGI characters.  Not to mention there is little need for this scene except establishing a trap door that leads to something scary.  I think it would be best just to see Oola dancing to a much better song briefly, Jabba tries to pull her close, she resists and falls to her death.  However if I'm in the minority here, this of course can stay.

How about something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouCyHrFVhgg (at 3:34)

I understand what you mean somone already had a go at intergrating lapti-nek with SE.....see here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShRgJTHewxE&feature=related

In the Original though I don't want to loose the screams from below... Poor Oola....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebjptd6Kgo&feature=related

DominicCobb said:

Alright, what I typed didn't really match up with what I meant. The shot of Boba's head comes too long after the shot of Boba falling into the Sarlaac, and it just seems a little weird.

Do you think we need to see his head first and then his body?

or only 1 or the other... .

Thanks for watching this,

Should his head be on the sand or on the skiff it is only suggestions anyway

It was my first attempt at trying to fix Bobba....would have to recut it to see what it was like

either way I'm not sure if what I suggest is possible but speaking to a mate last night he seems to think most things are possible with CGI and this is not too radical IMO

darth_ender said:

Just watched both your clips, Ronster.  My thoughts:

Obviously you are not a fan of Luke/Leia being brother and sister.  Your cut works surprisingly well, though it would be good to redub his line from "Then you know why I have to face him," to ""Now you know why I have to face him."  Cutting Han's jealousy worked well too.

I personally like the shuttle entering the DS.  Since it's reused ROTJ footage, and since Adywan is planning on cutting the shuttle heading to Executor in ESB, I'd suggest instead that that footage be used for the most part.

I see you like a lot of what I did :)

I know Spence put the entirety (or at the majority) of the sword fight together.  I personally like the fight split between other battles personally for at least a couple of reasons: 1) it gives the battle a feeling of greater length and therefore feels like more of a struggle; 2) the various simultaneous battles climax at about the same time instead of seeing one climax, then having a breather, then another, then a breather, etc.

Also in your rearrangement, the Executor crashes into the Death Star before the shield is down.  I suppose if we were to cut it that way it could crash into the shield instead, but we'd have to cut out the dudes running around the DS corridors.

I truly like the idea of Leia getting shot just before Vader taunts Luke about her, but it's too quick a shot to care, and we don't see her in much trouble there or afterwards.  Obviously if we were to do that, we'd have to remove her from the storming of the bunker afterwards, especially if you plan to keep her shooting those other guys when she's injured.  Or else you'd need to remove that completely and make her wound seem rather minor, which then defeats the purpose of showing her get shot.  If you found a way to make her injury not appear so overly fast and create a more perilous mood, then I could see it being more successfully pulled off.

I know I said I like ROTJ better than others which probably leaves me more willing to leave some things as they are.  I don't personally feel the need to rearrange so many of the end clips.  I really hope this doesn't offend you, and it's only my opinion.  We are a team.

As for Boba Fett, if you could successfully pull some of that stuff off (especially Boba shooting him in the hand), I'd say that's a much better way to go.  I don't much care for his head falling on the ground, but otherwise it's interesting.  The thing is that I don't know how possible it is.  It looks a bit complex for our special effects guys.

This is my feedback.  Hope you take it as constructive criticism.  I'm always open to the same for my contributions.  It's the only way to make progress.

Yes completely constructive and understand your thoughts...

Yes I am a fan of Luke & leia being brother and Sister but Luke does not tell her that she is his sister... think about that... he is also trying to protect her. Also Luke gives her away when he senses she is in pain and Vader begs Luke to tell his Sister / daughter that "you were right about me" it adds even more emotion and i could not help but see this as the way to go.

agreed on the redub if possible

like i said the 3rd act suffered too much from trying to show too much at any one time, flitting between DSII / Endor and Space battle so I decided get the plot in question out the way as much as possible in one go... and the shield should be down when the executor crashes into DSII so your right this needs to change... Perhaps Ackbar can say "The Shield is Down, Concentrate all fire power on that superstar destroyer we need to give those fighters more time" Join his big lines together is perhaps the fix move the shield generator blowing up to an earlier point most definatley

no Leia shooting the other guys although outside in my edit is actually inside.... Hope you can see what I was trying t acomplish probably flip that shot as it's on the wrong side if you feel it would work....and need CGI to be inside.

Dudes running around DS Corridors can go no problem, was just as filler.

Hey Regards leia being injured I only have the original source material to work with here so.....I did my best

I think Darth_ender we are somewhat on the same page as to trying to make the best ROTJ... I hope we do eventually. And I'm glad you watched my take on it not bad for being hungover eh?

DominicCobb said:

Ronster said:

OK as promised my Bobba Fett Inspiration for the CGI Experts

Not sure if it is possible so I hope Angel, Alanfae and Mithrandir can take a look.... It's the best I could do, and it's a better way for Bobba to go...than what is there at the momment if it could be pulled off.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gtsq72vys7i7lz4

it will make you laugh either way but it's not stupid like in the original

I let the last clip run to the end just so you know it does not effect other shots later on... I had to do quite a few flips to get this to come off... Basically it is some roto in and roto out work. I think the roto in is easy but the roto out will be a bit trickier but sand and sky I am sure is quite easy anyway Enjoy!

@fishmanlee I think elements of the Jerry Goldsmith Planet of the apes score might work well before the action around the sarlac pit.

Wow, if all the continuity could be fixed through CGI, this would be my ideal end for Boba Fett. I especially like that he's now the one to shoot Luke's hand. Only thing there that won't work is that one shot of Boba's helmet lying on the ground, it doesn't make sense because he's already in the Sarlaac.

I was trying to show that luke chop his head off?!?

Jango went the same way so it seemed to fit somewhat, probably does not need to stay as a shot on his severed head for so long, but only to serve as better than what is already in the original....

Difficult that was to know what to do i mean...  I did my best with it, you cannot have a scene like ROTS because Luke cannot meet the other 50% of the video shots.

I'm sorry but IMO i would rather see shoulder tapping bollocks than "I have decided to stay here" line from C3PO so whoever put that sequence together does not know and is not even on the same page as where we are trying to go.

Fixing ROTJ does not not leave out shoulder tapping....Lol only kidding but i don't particularly like the idea IMHO

Endor is where ROTJ is at so best get used to it.

darth_ender said:

I don't know about incorporating the Mothman into this story, as the Mothman Prophecies seem to be completely unrelated to Star Wars.  Oh, wait!  You mean Mon Mothma! ;) 

yeah what's her name :)

I like Luke just making grand entrances all the time as part of his character. The implication that he's going to leave to go "think" is enough for me.

I've never had a problem with starting on Tatooine, so for simplicity's sake I think that would be fine

@Vladius The only problem is, is that luke is not a Jedi yet apparently.....I don't mind sticking to the original sequence... But I quite like expanding the plot regarding the Bothans... That will be my next clip for the CGI Experts, and it would make the edit unique and perhaps a wow factor there too.

do have one thing to say, since you mentioned it earlier.  I like the idea of Leia's injury just before Vader taunts Luke about her joining the dark side.  However, the way I conceive the battle includes the shootout in the bunker taking place after their second time getting in, which means she would be injured while they break in.  Yet she would appear to be in perfectly good shape at that point.  Maybe you pull it off well in your cut, but that problem occurs to me.

@Darth-Ender I changed the order only slightly to accomodate this so check the sequence could perhaps add a burn to her arm i did a quick fix on the smoke and lasers going everywhere part in you clip too but thats a cgi like the doors and chewie. although i did not tile mark it

perhaps DS1 Footage wold work of Han and Chewie legging it around the corner just before the bunker exit. Watch the sequence you would know what I mean....

OK as promised my Bobba Fett Inspiration for the CGI Experts

Not sure if it is possible so I hope Angel, Alanfae and Mithrandir can take a look.... It's the best I could do, and it's a better way for Bobba to go...than what is there at the momment if it could be pulled off.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gtsq72vys7i7lz4

it will make you laugh either way but it's not stupid like in the original

I let the last clip run to the end just so you know it does not effect other shots later on... I had to do quite a few flips to get this to come off... Basically it is some roto in and roto out work. I think the roto in is easy but the roto out will be a bit trickier but sand and sky I am sure is quite easy anyway Enjoy!

@fishmanlee I think elements of the Jerry Goldsmith Planet of the apes score might work well before the action around the sarlac pit.

the transition timing needs to be a bit longer between Luke leaving Dagobah and arriving on tatooine Vader arriving on DSII is not Long Enough to show convey the distance travelled.

to pad this out would there be any way to insert somthing..

my suggestions:

the rebel fleet deep space and Delivering the Plans to Mothman? Only an Idea and the sequence is fine just feel it needs more transition time.

my favourite line....So Far

Oola and the fat female dancer performs... Lapti Nek is much sleazier and fits the setting better IMO

Can we cut this please...

1.The Rancor KEEPERS have come into the cage and are examining their dead beast. One of them breaks down and weeps.

A herd of wild banthas treks across Tatooine's dunes.[d1] 

It probably was stolen from Endor as that would make Vader going out to DSII in the wake of these events and the Emperor having to personally oversee the final stages of construction feasible.

Recycled EP IV Idea or suggest a new sequence

I suggested Kamino only because it has water on it and would be easy to show somthing crashing down into water say an escape pod and ambiguous aswell as easier to find footage for.

Are there any other planets that would fit the bill that have alot of water....

Otherwise escape PODS crashing through buildings on corusant?!? that is nobody escaping Unless there is another way to do the actual escape sequence.

Kamino suitable? as I don't know the full EU history of things?

Corusant definatley more suitable but how do they escape.....and get away with the plans...Without having to Dress people up as Bothans and film them.

How much water on Endor? Stolen from the Dish / Bunker?

like in Episode IV sand is like water and makes things harder to trace, better chance of escape.

"Alot of Bothans Died to bring us this infomation" well lets blow up a Bothan frigate then.....

timdiggerm said:

For some reason, I had envisioned the Bothan Opening Sequence as taking place on Corouscant.

As for why: Helps tie the saga together. Helps make the closing shots of the riots a little more sensible.

how do they escape? I like the idea but how....We know lots of them died.

well it's a 33.3333 recuring leave him in, take him out or kill him differently beacuse his death is the issue thats up for debate oh and the flirting scene other than that he is one of the best star wars characters ever.

If you take him out you don't see bobba fett :(

If you keep him alive or keep it the same then it's neutral :i

and if you kill him differently then people still might not be happy with it :( or they might think it is much better :)

it's a big deal for such a small part of the movie but thats the facts unfortunatly

I started thinking that it should stay on DSII please watch the link, and give your thoughts like you said you will loose the tension being so far away. I like the Idea but it's a massive undertaking as Mithrandir said and does not really add anything to the story. Only that it would be a fitting place for the final duel.

Riots on Corusant is stupidly difficult to achieve also, to make this whole plotline be feasible.

darth_ender said:

Seriously, I meant no offense though I was pretty sure I might come off that way.  I am referring to things such as Boba Fett's death which I simply don't see as possible, at least at the present.  Perhaps, as we move further along, such things could be integrated.  Also, I was trying to make clear that our visions will differ greatly and that hopefully we can come to common goal and go from there.  Then, if people wanted, we could take our finished product as use it as a base for further and more radical editing.  If you found a way to include things like Boba's flamethrower and death and such, then that would be great as a next step.  I'm not trying to push anyone around, but I'm simply trying to suggest that we keep this somewhat simpler for now.  When I said "overreaching" I did not mean getting out of line.  I meant you were trying to reach for a more complex idea than I think is currently possible, or at least is currently wise.

I briefly did look at your space battle edit, but I was at work and could not take a lengthy look.  I promise I will watch it when I can and perhaps use some of your ideas.

I don't want to be the boss here.  But I volunteered to do the script, and when it's done, I want suggestions on further changes.  My comments were meant to direct your energy to continued creative thinking, but keep it a bit more grounded, and then when I put out my version of the script, we can start adding other ideas.  Believe me, I'm leaving plenty open for others' input.

No probs... I don't want to be the boss either... Bobba fett, I have not even begun to look at, but the only thing that I can understand is that the first part of the sequence where his gun gets chopped off will be more close to his last point in the movie as I am seeing it. And I cannot be bothered either today to try to figure this puzzle out... I hope you enjoy what I did, and it helps you with your script of either what to do or what not to do.

Like you said the CGI Wiz Kids will dictate what can and cannot work, with any radical ideas I will try to provide possible formats / shot inspiration that can be manipulated / composited to reach the end result of any idea anyone possibly wanted to achieve. You will need to cheat to fix Bobba Fett in ROTJ or cheat by removing him altogether as we have seen already cthat an be done but personally I would rather see him die lol

I hope you understand me now,

Yes sorry I get carried away... Look the Idea is to hammer it out together, just because I put somthing on the table, does not mean I am telling anyone it should be anyway in particular, we should have a common goal and that is to fix ROTJ...

I'm sorry if I sound like i am being hard but i am a fair person, and don't have any hard feelings only that I wish to inspire and be inspired in turn.

Hope you enjoy what I did, if not that's fine by me but lets work it out.

I hope that makes things a bit clearer.

darth_ender said:

Ronster, I personally feel that your ideas are interesting, but I think you may be overreaching at this point.  I feel we should start with a more grounded edit first, stick largely faithful to the original story, and as was pointed out before, we have easily accessible building blocks for future edits.  I think ROTJ has many good elements already existing, and that some minor alterations could go a long way to drastically improve the story.  Many of your ideas can be used, but I hope I don't offend you when I say that currently I'm thinking of more basic changes.

That said, I have some good news.  Though more elaborate, I already had a good idea of how I want the final act of the story to move, but was stuck on the first act.  It's really far less complex, but I was having some writer's block as how we should provide the opening crawl and several scenes.  I had some great ideas that I think could start the movie slightly slower, but then provide fewer moments of slow exposition towards the middle, moving the plot faster overall.  I intend to post the first portion of the script today with some commentary on why I changed certain things, plus a few minor special effects and musical suggestions.

Speaking of those sorts of things, while I intend to make suggestions, I don't want to include everything in the script.  I want to leave that to our CGI wizards and suggest that they refer to the wishlist for most ideas.  While I do include a few because I feel strongly about them and no other reason, most I include simply because they may be essential for plot changes.

I'll try to get that first part of the script up today :)

Did you check the link? I can see that you did not.... If you are going to palm me off before even looking as I have given you the courtesy of then yes I would consider that rude considering it is meant to be a collaboration and that I have made an effort to include your ideas and other peoples, The 1st Act is the Hard part IMO

Please do get your script up... I am not trying to get in before you or anything it is fair to show you then you show me? And go from there

I honestly am not trying to overreach here, I had some Inspiration last night and thought I would share it, I had a big night out on Saturday, christmas party and was hungover and could not sleep last night, so thought I would focus on somthing that does not mean anyone has to agree with anything I do or say, or even consider using my ideas I already told you this    

mabey you would even enjoy what i did or it might inspire you... ever thought of that.

If it is not a collaboration then you should probably change the title of the thread

Although I really enjoyed your edit i felt you took too much out it almost felt like a TV advert on Tatooine and characters were not given enough time to develop. Also there was no attempt to fix the transitions from Tatooine to where ever Luke Went... The Duel on the Executor did not work either for me but the duel itself was very good IMO of what you did there

If you are interested we are chucking some ideas around on ROTJ in the Collabrative editing thread. As you have been in deep on editing ROTJ even if you did not want to collaborate your experience with the material and so fourth might help us get a few steps ahead. And you simply may find it interesting as we butt our heads against the same problems you came across.

The purpose is to make the Ultimate ROTJ even if the final resulting Video Quality is not quite as good as can be as deleted scenes are planned to be incorporated to fill in various spaces.

Either Way, thankyou for the Work you did on ROTJ it was certainly a unique take on the film which I enjoyed overall, but I prefer the Original in the first Half and somewhat yours in the second.

That amount of detailed analysis is far beyond me... But I will agree it looks bloody good...

timdiggerm said:

Although it should be pointed out that in Spence's Special Features, he talks about the idea of leaving Fett in, having Han intentionally hit his jetpack, not showing him actually falling into the Sarlaac's maw, and then showing him regaining consciousness and watching the Skiff fly away at the end. He left it out because his edit became much more Luke-centric, but I do like the idea.

I have worked quite a bit on ideas yesterday and today already for ROTJ , but my ponderings on the matter so far have him Fireing a flamethrower at the opposite sail barge as it should be :)  getting hit by mistake, falling in the sarlac, after it burps have him fly out shooting (this is a shot from ROTS Jango Roto in and recolour) and luke will deflect the lasers and chop him in half as he comes to Land on the end of the skiff. I'll do a mock up of shots another day.

Would that make his death good enough for you?

Please check my 3rd Act *Edit*

http://www.mediafire.com/?u2m3nkdcb6hazr4