Ronster

So I am trying to make this list an interesting read compared to the general lists floating about on mainstream articles but I need others input too. I want to hear your good ideas.

Ok

The Time Machine (2002)

Another B-Movie of a modest Budget and another film with a story to tell about production trouble in the bonus features.

First up we have a deleted opening scene which should be restored to the film as the content of this scene permiates throughout the plot and provides important context for scenes that appear later on.

Next we have a deleted FX sequence that was apprently completed of the moon breaking up and meteorites slamming into buildings in New york. This was removed due to 9/11 terrorist attacks. This ILM fx sequence remains unreleased.

The next problem revolves around Stan Winstons Morlocks. The creatures were designed to only ever be shot and photographed in the dark. All the scenes were due to be set at night as they are nocturnal creatures. Then this suddenly changed and Stan Winston studios openly proclaimed our work looks shit here because the producers keep changing stuff too late in the design process and basically the statement firmly places blame on the studio for there whole look and appearance being poor. Surely this could have been somewhat remedied as doing a day for night color grading on the morlock scenes? I think having nocturnal creatures running about in the day should call for the intention of “day for night” grading to remedy these sequences and perhaps get these parts looking as originally intended.

Finally the Director Simon Wells related to Orson Wells then suffered an exhaustion burn out and Gore Verbinski was brought in to finish off the film.

The ending was completely reshot and Jeremy Irons part was added late in production he was not originally attached to be in the film.

Theres an interesting story about production problems that would make for good special features material. Also a featurette on the actual time machine prop would be nice an impressive steam punk looking bit of kit and very expensive too to build it. Whilst it’s not an amazing film there is scope to improve upon what is there in a Special extended edition release.
Furthermore the soundtrack is extremely good for this film way better than the film itself. A special feature on the soundtrack would be great as well. Perhaps also a feature on Orson Wells too would be something to pad it out going over his body of work.

All in all the time machine was ok but just barely scraping the average but the ingredients were there to be better than what it actually was. Is the future of this film written in destiny or could it be changed for better or for worse. Whilst making it destiny was not considered at all. So Fix this film up and present a better vetsion as intended.

The Ghost and the Darkness (1996)

Again a modest budget B-movie which envisioned itself as the next Jaws but with animatronic lions and perhaps bat’s too.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116409/trivia/

Quite a bit of a troubled production which is definitely amazing special features material. Controversy and nobody being particularly happy with the end result and claims 45 minutes were removed in post production.

Now I can see this movie did indeed suffer cut’s but 45 minutes worth would be the workprint I could see an extra 10 to 20 minutes from glancing over the script and a lot has to do with the animatronic lion.

When you actually look at the script action scenes there are many explained frenetic edits involving cutting away to something then to the animatronic lion growling roaring piercing eyes perhaps something in it’s mouth you get the idea. On paper this looks a lot but in reality these are quick frenetic edits to and from the animatronic lion. And I will be honest this would not only make for good special features documentary but it’s practically only in one shot within the film. These sequences could have been quite artistic. The script is very visual. I could also imagine more savannah footage B-roll being interlaced which was beuatifully shot.

Now regarding claims Michael Douglas cut down screen time of Val Kilmer to include himself more I am also not sure this rings true entirely. It looks like there was a couple of extra scenes with Patterson and Remington together if anything and some more of Abdullah character.

A scene that also seems to be a horror jump scare involved when Patterson and Remmington venture into the lions cave or lair. They hear something Remmington fires his gun and a swarm of bat’s flies out the cave. Sounds like a nice jump scare scene cut for budget perhaps who knows but that sounds quite good. Stan Winstons bats?

Another scene that stood out was the ghost lion when killed somone had their photo taken with it dead. This is the animatronic lion again I would guess but the actor opens the mouth of the dead lion and sticks his head in the dead lions mouth to have his photo with trophy kill.

So I think that pretty much sums it up. It would be interesting to see this film with the animatronic lion and bat’s even restored to a extended or unrated version. Amongst some good documentaries about the ego’s at play and troubled production and Stan Winstons missing lions creature effects restored and their creation covered in detail. This could obviously be coupled with the real lions that were trained and used and a true historical documentary on the history of Tsavo lions vs the film. Plenty to make a truly brilliant release.

Stephan Hopkins other film.

Predator 2 (1990)

This would be intetesting also to see a uncensored version. I don’t see much extra missing scenes perhaps a couple and more violence during the opening drug bust operation and aparently the predator trophy scene had more scrern time Danny Glover at a funeral and some bar scene…But this film never had any other cut other than what was released theatrically however there was censorship at play as the film was assembled and given it’s a predator film it would be something that would be worth restoring and waiving the censorship cuts for the true 18 rating for fan’s of the Predator franchise. It’s a very quoteable fun film and it desrves a bit more horror / gore like the original. Quite a lack of special features for this film compared to the original too. It would be interesting to focus on the new Predator weapons and so on and some of the set’s and production location shoots. But Predator 2 is a censored yet solid effort with not much in the way of extra’s also considering the scope of the project.

https://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/bbfc_cuts_predator_2.htm

As far as I can gather the main cut’s were to the guy being stabbed and gutted whilst hanging upside down and a digital carcass overlayed in front of Keynes as the flying frisbee disc chops him in half. Probably some other stuff too certainly a curiosity. Apparently although the shoot out was more graphic you don’t see the Predator kill the Drug Gang at the start and you don’t see extra violence on King Willies Death either. I can imagagine more graphic ends for Harrigans sidekicks or team though as well as the FBI agents in the warehouse but it’s small stuff.

Overall The Ghost and the Darkness is the more interesting of the two and more deserving but Predator 2 uncensored would be an easier sell. So I would treat it as a 2 stage project Predator 2 first uncensored and with the guarenteed revenue from that release put profit towards making the far better more intetesting restoration to Ghost and the darkness with the aforemention wealth of Special features that would be extremely interesting. Cheaper and easier and more poular film pays for more obscure yet more interesting and frankly better films restoration.

Example:

The Cave (2005)

Quite good B-movie horror very little in way or special features although material is available.

Two articles on it.

https://movieweb.com/movieweb-goes-into-the-cave-with-cole-hauser/

http://horror-movie-a-day.blogspot.com/2008/05/cave.html

Seems like they butchered the movie going up against the descent 2005 and tried to turn it into a TV movie. There are obvious cut’s going on. Cole Hauser stresses that a directors cut will come out… Never did. Article sites numerous fades to black to insert TV adverts not Theatrical. Very little gore for a horror film. Opening mountain shots had flicker on it on my Dvd. No profanity when in a very streesful situation f-bombs are no doubt censored.

I thought the film was pretty good though. Good special effects. Trailer has extra stuff in it not in the film a tell tale sign something or quite a few things changed. Was Rushed editing was rushed.

Idea - Release a directors cut or unrated extended cut or deleted scenes on the side with the film. A directors cut or unrated cut would be preferable. Give this movie a chance to be a horror film and have more character engadgement. Sound effect of sonic scanning machine was well dodgy find a different sound effect! Ruined the use of it. Credits song was poor also. Audio was good for most part though but could do with some edits. Heartbeat style score music was very good. 2 soundtracks were released one for score one for licensed heavy metal music. Problem is heavy metal does not fit with catacombs or underwater caves… Needed something else there. Poor judgement on atmoshere. Another matter of Dialogue when Divers have regulators in their mouth should not only not be able to talk but the silence and lack of communication would benefit those scenes cave diving. I think the diving sign language element was cut out which I would assume could of played a part in not being detected by the creatures also. But some of the dialogue could have been prep talk deleted scenes before the dive whilst other dialogue were just forced ADR and did not a lot. Removing dialogue from those parts would be the way to go and restore whatever the original plan was before films running time was sacrificed.

Collect together all scattered extras from various releases or construct new documentary. Especially on the set’s and the expert cave divers and the story / lore and special effects and location shoots.

This film deserves a 2nd chance although it’s always pitched against 2005 the descent almost as if this film does not exist. The creatures make more sense than in the descent in the cave. I can’t help but feel there is a better movie locked in a can somewhere. I miss films like this we don’t get this quality production set’s in Horror that much these days it’s all green screen cheap crap. Give this film another chance.

https://theasc.com/magazine/aug05/cave/page1.html

Here is an interview with Bruce Hunt

https://youtu.be/m7eZFu7_0rw?si=QD3sEBMxBdwRclG6

The bit where he talks about “the cave” starts at 19.55

He confirms there were many changes imposed and he did not have the control he would have liked in the editing room. I doubt it was shot but the opening in the church was meant to be Nazi Soldiers not Brittish and Russian. I guess the Nazi soldiers were written out but still. It confirms that the film was meant to be R rated and a different tone. No doubt it had character beats lost. Directors resume includes Dark City and The Matrix trilogy as well as Austrailia with Hugh Jackman. Mostly 2nd Unit but a talented guy who had very little control over his first and only directional effort.

I remember back in Covid I rang Arrow Video and had a nice chat with somone there I was kind of looking for a job or a project since the industry I worked in was non existant due to health restrictions. They were not in good shape either. Cut a long story short. Arrow / shout factory do quite a good job when collecting materials together for lesser movies either license good restorations from others or do it themselves. And put together some good home media.

This thread is an un-official wish list. Post your idea (movie) that you think deserves the arrow / shout treatment especially older horror or more obscure films. Let’s hope one day somone reads it and says “oh that’s a great Idea!”

Horror B-Movies have always been a guilty pleasure of mine but I am not limiting the list to horror so I think It would be good to create a wish list of movies that deserve a restoration and extras basically ideas for a great home media release even though home media seems to be sort being killed off. Let’s ressurect it like we should some movies in this list.

Please post the Title and year and explain what it is that would make it a dream release.

So to summarize on this.

I think Coppola did a good job on Redux but it falls short with some bad decisions. I have not seen the final cut version yet but this for all intentents and purposes is a halfway house affair between theatrical and Redux.

I would very much like to see a fourth attempt at this considering Redux took and drew from the cut assembled prior to the decision to slash the running time.

The Booby trap scene is good.

Lance Shooting at the water buffalo is good anf it gived up thete position which led to Cleans death.

I think cleans funeral could be shown just the shot of his flag wrapped body would be enough disdolving over chief looking whilst tape recorder is playing.then go with the monkey sampan sequence without intercutting.

The scene with Kurtz and Willard talking at the Bamboo cage about “Right and Wrong” from the workprint is much stronger scene than of the shipping container scene in Redux. But I think the Solitary confinement should be shown as more torture until Kurtz decides to put willard under guard. It just should not have hime reading times magazine.

That is a difference in the film Redux and theatrical Willard is let to roam freely as per Willards narration lines. The actual intention or story was Willard was NOT allowed to roam freely. So that creates conflict about Kurtz wanting to die and choosing Willard to sacrifice him. Tbat does indeed mean Kurtz did not want to die or give up his power. But it is inferred that people under Kurtz were growing tired of him killing people indiscriminately for little or no reason. That Willard was being chosen by the people as an alternative to Kurtz. Kurtz did indeed accept his fate when it came and knew he had lost support.

The workprint has a few occasions were gun’s can be heard going off too no doubt to kill someone indiscriminately although not shown nor cut to visually That whole indiscriminate killing is not shown at all. Kurtz I think may have shot the french guy he was talking to. Although it happens off screen.

Still an excellent film in any version that won’t change. But the way I see it. If you are going to create an extended version keep the extra stuff in that is Strong and cut out the stuff that is weak. That was the basis of the theatrical cut and I guesd thinking on the final cut, but Coppola seems hung up on the plantation scene. He should just let that go and serve uo the stronger material and sort out the narration problem before Willard goes to the briefing. Brilliant bit of film making though amid a very messy production.

This 8mm behind the scenes footage is very interesting and may point to the reason Colbys death was left out which in turn meant dennis hoppers death was also removed.

https://youtu.be/FAGq9pnfzOE?si=mm00M6cWrRxvFHTW

There is some good air cavalry coverage in this shooting but reference Colbys death right near end of video looks like the special forces knife was on a wire. Well the wire is plain as day to see in sunlight. Seems this explains Colbys line that he explains as he dies “special forces knife…” because they felt it neccesary to crop out the knife flying on the wire I suppose. Also dennis Hoppers squibs or bloodbags when shot by Colby shotgun is shown uncropped. Look pretty graphic.

If Coppola cut the scene because the wire looked bad I can understand that. But could easily be removed digitally today. Choice would be knife shown (without wire) in Colby’s chest no dialogue falls straight off ledge into water. I lean towards him only saying “Kill Kurtz” i really like his bug eating scene too. Quite entertaining.

Just dropping some thoughts regarding the material available for the ending.

Whilst none of it particularly conflicts with the outcome that Willard completes his mission.

I think that at one time, the intention was although you see Willard complete his mission in every version the intention may have been that the viewer was not meant to be sure if it was real or imagined. There is a sense of that in the film but it is not as pronounced as it perhaps could have been or should have been.

This I have concluded because of the flash forwards at the start of the film. The prostitute by the window blinds although we don’t see willard in bed with her has the same posture and squatting as a woman straight after kurtz is killed mourning.

So within the compund should have been more surreal than it already is.

But although the callbacks to the start montage are there there at “the end” there is no outro montage as such a bit is there though. I think this was really the intention at one time to be more of a surreal montage so you were not sure if it was real or not within the moment the past or the future But it never got to the same level as the opening section montage. But the seeds of it are there within the story. Showing images Kurtz alive in the shadows after he was killed would achieve this in full. Showing willard escape but then still be trapped in a cage. Colby eating bugs after his death and so on.

Anyway this may have been the creative difference and was chosen to play it down and more straight and conclusive… Rather than Inconclusive and delibetately confused but with clarity enough within that confusion willard completed his mission however real or imagined it was is up to the individual to decide.

Edit:

Something also springs to mind when think8ng of the opening montage. Going off or riffing off hearts of darkness and Willard feeling that the home he knew was not there anymore and the imposing one culture on another instant gratification theme. Something that would have really rammed the theme home would have been a city skyline dissolving into the napalm strike footage. Willard was divorced that day from his wife hence the prostitute I guess.

Bookending this at the end Willard took Kurtz notes and writings and was to originally either speak with Kutz Wife or Son (ending had about 10 rewrites). Willard was to lie and not be entirely truthful about what happened to Kurtz or his last words to family. I don’t think this ending would have worked at all yet Willard still takes the writings.

This again is paradoxical as he has left the army no need to prove anything to his superiors yet takes the notes still he is also not going to Speak to Kurtz son or wife for that matter. So the notes are taken to be… Destroyed?

Kurtz wanted death but his writings to potentially live on past his moment of realization as he died.

This is why I think it should have played the slug on the razor blade speech angle with Willard dreamed it up in a cage after escape, Kurtz still lives after death the camp is bombed as the tribe dances. All opaque. Like it all happened and it all never happened. The truth is that nobody will ever know anyway and that is the point nobody is supposed to know. The mission never existed Nothing would be resolved which ever way you look at it. There was no redemption. Kurtz does not exist in the land of city skyscrapers “real world” neither does Willard.
But whatever did happen would just be a conspiracy theory there would be no reality that accepted the truth. So it must all be a lie. So the truth is that it is all lies. Kurtz says as much and his death should be treated no diffetent as should Willards escape and living on…all lies.

I went through the Special features and they do indeed present a slightly better quality version of it in those documentaries.

When looking through the documentaries on full disclosure edition R1 they openly admit the plantation sequence was troublesome and could not get it working.

Furthermore the Redux version was struck from tri color technicolor prints. As the film was being assembled in the fashion of Redux and the day before a decision to cut the films running time for theatrical release. It was only that day before a first acceptable kind of working version of the plantation scene was made. Redux is struck from that longer version that was assembled before they stripped it out. Also of note the tiger scene looks much better not being blue or day for night photo chemical effect. Should have just left it. Actually looks darker in the Raw form.

In the documentaries also upon talking on the edit. When the decision was made to cut the film down in length the ending was not decided upon or assembled. It was a mish mash of improvisation with no clear vision. There was a lot of commitee and debate frequently on putting the film together. There were multiple cut’s by different editors of scenes before a vision was taken forward. So it was very meticulous yet it would seem the ending kept being put on hold.

As far as I can tell regarding the endings various material. Where Willard is locked in the shipping container and Colby killing Dennis Hopper then Willard killing Colby are in the same story line of events.

Regarding the bombing of the compund credits scene. Even if Coppola did not want Willard to look like he was ordering bombing of all the people at the temple compund. They people clearly were no longer there. So Willard did indeed turn off the radio on “Almighty”. Perhaps he lead by example put down weapons and left and it is clear the tribe or people there also laid down weapons and most likely left. If anything that is more worrying because there would be many dangerous including willard and crazy including willard people on the loose. But the whole power structure was broken up I guess.

The workprint is clearly the basis for the released film anyway It is just a matter of what you can get working better.

I do think the Monkey Sampan scene is the alternate to the french plantation. They shot that as the alternate choice. However it is not in the workprint.

Just to add there was a severe creative disagreement on the ending where an editor threatened to destroy the film if his voice and choice was not heard on the ending. That editor was removed and they got the film back. I wonder what he disagreed with so much?

Something else just came to me the exchange between Willard and Kurtz.

Willard “If I’m wrong and your right why don’t you just kill me and get it over with?”

Kurtz suddenly looks up his facial features coming into the light…

I think hear would be a smash cut to willard in solitary confinement. Sound of container door slamming. Whilst in the darkness should be surreal showing passing of time. The whole Kurtz in the Light or in the dark is very interesting artistic decision. I am not sure I personally would go with Kurtz reading the times article to willard but I would have him just open the door.

Ok I found the missing monologue for when the helicopter lands before mission briefing… It’s in the Original theatrical trailer.

“I’ve been a soldier since I was 19 and still have’nt learned to wait for it…I wanted a mission for my sins and they gave me one… Nobody ever went on a mission like this before…And when it was over, I’d never want another one”

I think that’s the monologue before the briefing that was meant to play.

Well a recent VHS clip from a workprint of Dune 1984 sparked my curiosity if something could be done with this footage.

The Dune clip had chromatic abberation too. Search restored lost deleted scene Dune 1984. On Max Evry channel. There is a restoration explaination too.

I reckon the official DVD version of workprint scenes are marginally better but not all are shared. Most things are snippets or brief things to be fair. But really I guess where we start to get real story is at the end with Colby and photojournalist deaths.

I guess one day technology will catch up.

I reckon Redux and Final cut are close to being the complete story but it just stops short in execution with that plantation sequence. All the drive and momentum just peels away.

By the way I did not check who was indeed on the boat in Monkey Sampan scene so no idea if it could intercut with plantation scene. But obviously it did not intercut with the compound as presented. It might intercut with shot’s of Brando / Kurtz from the hollow men stuff though.

Yeah It did look like a stretch. However the scenes on the DVD are slightly better on the DVD full disclosure edition probably the same as on Bluray too. Probably same video source. That is what that 2nd attempt is from on 2nd youtube link. Where as the 1st youtube link is the VCD as you say.

It seems we are looking at some censorship in Apocalypse now too. But it is not anything that alters the plot.

I think realistically. What is in the workprint that is’nt in the film (Redux) is not that much.

I have just studied the workprint vs the Redux version and this is my observations.

On opening sequence with “The End” song by the doors. Willard with the prostitute would be placed where the flash forward to Kurtz compound would be placed. This is strange choice to include Kurtz compound here. Music is also combined with Jim Morrison saying “fuck, fuck yeah”

Martin Sheen doing handstand and full frontel nudity would probably first choice version of scene but perhaps Martin sheen had reservations on it

On streets of Saigon only the final bit with the Army truck is relevant.

Upon landing in the helicopter to get the mission briefing Martin Sheens voiceover here in Redux makes no sense. That voice over should come later after the briefing on the montage linking up with the rest of it. This then raises the question about the surrounding footage in the workprint being intercut with sound of helicopter blades. Perhaps people on the base and the Ranger sign on lieu of that narration moving.

Pretty much everything else is included as of this point until the “booby trap” shootung at the toy boat scene.

I think if the chromatic abberation could be solved on the VCD then it would be possible to then start thinking about then trying to sharpen and upscale it. Willard in the opening montage would probably be somewhat Opaque or could be on some other B-Roll of flames or something. I reckon done in the right order could get a somewhat better result.

Noticed Lance shooting at water buffalo not in deleted scenes only on VCD.

Monkey Sampan is fairly decent quality. Would be useable but Just considering the plantation. The funeral bit is good I wonder if the french “conspiracy theory” bit was to perhaps intercut with footage from the monkey Sampan scene making it much more brief.

There is quite alot of opacity effects in the film to show time passing / surrealism and dreamlike smoke for instance. A lot of smoke.

Looking at this attempt…

https://youtu.be/M2IWFgjSt8I?si=80HacdbL2LwiGBYr

Not sure it looks better than the original workprint. Before any upscaling would be better to deal with the chromatic abberation?

The purple hue looks like it could be brought back around to red fairly easily with selective correction. Perhaps a better way to deal with this?

Better attempt by sompne else.

https://youtu.be/Koi3EMf-Xuo?si=puAQJYyIsOU0e73u

Seems much more even handed approach seems like it can be salvaged a bit image wise.

Audiowise it would be tough but would need new sound effects and everything else to construct new mix.

I got the title Willards Odyssey off of a map detailing willards desent into madness.

I think that is really what apocalypse now is all about. A descent into madness.

Givem Technological advancement of video repair software especially for VHS sources I was wondering if parts of the workprint could be brought up to good dvd quality or to perhaps 720p but I do mean decent. Any suggestions on any free software to do this? Or anyone feel like having a go?

The thing is the theatrical version is extremely good but Redux and even final cut feel too bloated due to the plantation sequence which is a very different tone to the rest of the film.

I don’t mind the playboy bunny scenes showing sexual repression and such they seem to fit the ever forward motion even to stop for a bit. The plantation scene however brings the whole thing to a grinding halt and personally although there are aspects of Redux I do like very much this scene feels like quite a departure from a very paranoid and weird trip down the river into madness.

When examining the list of scenes from the workprint there could be some simple things like establishing shots and things of this nature or alternates but in terms of whole scenes these few stand out.

1. A scene where a minuature toyboat passes the Navy PBR Lance trys to grab it Chief yells at him claiming it is a booby trap. Chief shoots it and it explodes.

2. When lance is reading letterd on the boat he suddenly stops to shoot a machine gun at a water buffalo.
   Chief tells him off.

3. The Monkey Sampan scene

4. Once we reach the compound re-instating photojournalist (Dennis Hopper) scenes and Colbys scenes including both their deaths and a somehow shortend / edited Willard in the cage ritual.

As for Kurtz he is better off being mysterious I think.

5. Include the bombing of the compound by airstrike over credits.

I think I would go with Redux but remove the Plantation scene and add those aforemention scenes. Especially good reason to go with Redux is because the extra Robert Duvall stuff is so good.

Do you really admire the plantation sequence or do you think it is better without it?

Are there any scenes from the workprint you really think should have been restored?

Did you feel the Final cut was a missed opportunity?

I kind of feel what I am saying here is that the workprint scenes I mentioned keep the film in the same vein as the theatrical cut but extend the film in the same paranoid weird mood… But the Redux stuff does not really hurt and if anything give some levity until the the plantation sequence and longer films need levity. But yeah I think the plantation sequence is just too much of a departure.

Alienuncut1979 said:

Ronster said:

I was wondering if the acoustic instrumental version of “who wants to live forever” was intended for Rachel and connors extended goodbye scene? That would then be a reason for that music being written.

Maybe. Not sure. But I have updated my edit.

Would someone like to make a DVD cover for this release?

Could be for the extended ending?

It was made for a reason though do not know the answer unfortunately.

I was not aware of the extra Kurgun line in the church I will check it out. Did you try the cit music here?

Seems to me that it was a 2 hour slot was agreed running time. When factoring in the Lost deleted Kurgun fight in the office and a comedy nightclub scene with bedsoe coming to see conner and fasil in the club. If the material was available for those what would be swapped in or out?

I would say from this 70mm cut the Rachel scene is a complete certainty for inclusion as would be the extended fight scene at the end. I could however imagine the wrestling scenes and the US version has more extra wrestling in it. Would probably fall away in some way choice cuts. And The extended ending seems pretty lame but would have been good for extra Connery voiceover dialogue.

I think that would be Russell Mulachy cut to be honest had these 2 other scenes survived.

The lost Kurhun fight in the office had a lot going for it as the guy he fought was having issues of being immortal.I think it is in the Novel and there are stills for the scene. Also in the Novel was a detailed backstory for the Kurgen which would have been interesting juxtaposed against connors immortal history.

The nightclub scene was just a gag for levity it would seem.

Good work though I found the music over the extended fight intetesting.

I was wondering if the acoustic instrumental version of “who wants to live forever” was intended for Rachel and connors extended goodbye scene? That would then be a reason for that music being written.

The missing effects for Kurgun quickening killing Ramirez is another thing. The lightning element that strikes the rock is in Queen music video with black matte. The build up however is not I have 2 fan recreations of what might have been. Had effects got completed.

In one of the Star Tours II rides it has a Leia Hologram not suggesting you should use it but interestingly it does the same message I think but I think voiced by an actress. It starts with “I am Princess Leia of Alderaan” and I actually thought this would be really good inclusion more so for the audience. Just letting you know about it really. I ultimately decided against using it but I thought it was small yet signifficant and would have been a better more proper way to deliver a message to somone I thought.

Thank you Ryan I will leave one further thought. The place they detonate the atomics from in the script is called communication room.

Although for a communication room there is more scientific equipment and bottles and filters and things like more of a laboritory than anything else. This place would seem to be Dr Kynes Laboritory. That is what I think although I can not confirm such a thing but it may mean that Max Von Sydow may have had a scene here even if only when Thuffer Hawatt says “Kynes… Doctor Kynes”

Since we have no Palm Trees no sub tropical Conservatory in the palace and no plants in the sietch either that would seem to be the only last remaining shred of Teraforming plot that is shown although they are setting off Atomic bombs there.

I was thinking that might be that still image from the TV broadcast might be with the cave window in the cliff face. As Paul Gurney and Stilgar look out of a cave window over to the Palace. But I can’t be sure of this. It’s not obvious but it kind of links up. Not sure.

The Bluray deleted scenes use some random music.

For the extended fight scene would be very interesting to see how the music would play and how it was edited. I think the track is battle atop Silvercup.

If I remember correctly when one of the lit up letters crash into the flooded rooftop there is a water splash not found in the film also in the queen music video “gimme the prize” pretty meagur offering but it’s a small snippet.

I always wanted to do the extended battle scene at the end and do the sound effects for it but never got around to it. There is not a massive amount of missing music though. There is a track for Rachel and Connor saying goodbye not sure if it does the extended scene or not. There is some music for the church with Kurgen and Connor not used. And a few alternate music tracks for which are nothing that noteworthy.

Yeah It is on the bluescreen shot with him flying up or domething.

I think I recall “your future will be glorius” it is whatever is said there anyway. You can tell because it is exactly the same echo as his bathroom recording and also the tone and demeanor are a sure match.

The print came from a private collector source. He must have had it scanned as it is on the bluray release.

I think the 70mm version has the USA version animation effects so it might be worth asking willarob for his effort on that restoration. It is a shame they never shared that also. The bit where Kurgen loses his head also looks like uncensored version also. Looks way better.

There is also 2 quick snippets from the final quickening that where deleted from the original. The very brief shorts can be found in Highlander 3’s final quickening. One he is floating in the air and one he get’s hit by like lightning with his arms stretched out. When I say Brief they are very short.

The Final Dimension Version also features what would appear to be an attempt to actually do the missing effects for the connor recieving the prize instead of the paper mache head exploding. So it’s not a deleted shot but they decided to do the missing effect in another film and not totally the same animation style but fairly close. But it gives you an idea of what the intended vision was.

I have the expanded music soundtrack might help you. I am really got a lot to deal with right now though. I am just using my phone to post no computer at the moment.

I don’t think the audio is lost it is a case of them not allowed to share it for some reason perhaps music rights issues or something.

It would be good to see this vetsion however the ending looks pretty bad on scottish picnic party. I would probably go with everything else though in the cut. The deleted ending of Highlander 2 has the deleted Sean Connery voice over for the ending of the original film though. So I think some of that footage with the deleted connery monologue or even scottish highlands footage then cut back to theatrical version would be the way to go on the ending.

The real good scene is Connor and Rachel apparently whilst the extended fight seems good to me also.

Hiroshima TV version would be worth tracking down with Tom Delaney especially since Oppenheimer released.

As for Angelheart there is a rare trailer on youtube i think from 16mm with cut footage in fairly decent quality. It contains the brief TV shots and a bit more I think.

Conan the barbarian sci fi TV version also has some unique footage.

I can see the reasoning behind making it more green like forest planet as you say the Special edition confuses things. It’s no biggie to me but i always thought that arrival matte of the planet looked pretty blue. But I always considered it confusing with Alderaan as you say. I think it is a good choice in retrospect. But then It does make me then think is the matte shot where they arrive a decent representation of the look too. It kind of feels like it all needs unifying whatever the choice.

That guy with no name said:

oops. Accidentally posted the top comparison without the falcon glow layer turned on.
here is the updated comparison:
(still working on the 3d model neverar, I haven’t forgotten that.)

(wipe removed for comp only)

original:

DevEd v.2

Full shot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ARgf0HUgH8pAiEEkicaik6_xcYBVik5I/view?usp=sharing

I think you nailed the trajectory on that shot to be honest. You have made the best of what is there. I think it is very charming to keep the original model fix the position and nice engine glow.

However the Planet still looks very green I distinctly remember to get it looking the right shade of Blue as when they arrive earlier it needed hue shifting quite a lot via selective correction. Obviously all the way through from green cyan to blue. Don’t be scared to be quite brutal there it is probably blue screen degredation or something. But looks very good when shifted into blue you must try it and you will see and feel when it looks like correct. Otherwise really great job on that shot 😃 Thanks

Last post on this research… Hopefully it has been valuable and I do hope some others chime in.

Beast Rabaan in the bath tub. Saw an interview with Paul smith regarding punching the light and black liquid running over his face being in danger of electricution so cancelled. I believe the scene was shot though as a lot of still images exist of it but it was shot without punching the light above him. It is in the comic.

The comic and script have more dialogue between Duncun and Leto when he delivers fremen message regarding a degredation of the great houses of the landsraad.

The comic and script hace further dialogue and scenes at the ending even more than is provided in the deleted scenes. They remain unreleased

Missing shot of the Bulls head in Arakeen palace.

The Feyed knife fight with Paul at the end is also cut and shortened. After he taunts Paul’ about his little pet Chani Feyed manages to cut Pauls wrist this then slows paul down as blade is poisioned but paul being a super being neutralizes the poision quickly. The music is far longer than the fight and the music cues do not match up but can be heard for the various blows and hits but will not work properly or fully unless the footage is restored and dialogue. Re-instated.

In the TV broadcast version when Atreides land on Arakis there are 2 establishing shots. One is for dawn destroyed shield wall I do not know what the other one is…They do not go in that part of the film though they are misplaced.

When the Emperor orders the Genocide on Arrakis it would seem to me that this should cue a flurry of Sandakar Activity and ships and Heighliners and so on otherwise it falls flat. It would have been an ideal moment to show Salusa Secondus and the Prision planet amongst the othets named which were mentioned IX, Richese ultimately showing a convergence to Arrakis but with the main focus on Salusa Secondus.

When we see the moon crack apart there is another version of this in a TV spot which looks better effect but has a rip in the footage. TV spot is labelled TV spot 2. This was also for the waking dream.

And finally The Movie poster image with the two moons over the deseart was meant for Pauls waking dream after thopter crash. The moons were animated as in the german trailer footage. However this plate is missing the desert and the sky element and also it was meant to be raining also. This was to acompany. “Never one drop of rain on Arrakis” monologue and was refetence to the rain ending and teraforming plot / threat of destruction of the spice. When Paul get’s his robes at the end the speech was cut and explains there will always be desert for the spice but it is all there and definitely worth looking at.

When Paul has no further visions of his future and exlaims “the empetor is coming” Surely we were meant to see the emperors ship here in space? Would seem obvious.

So that’s it all I think. I hope it can remain a good source of information on the film for any preservation efforts and or fan edits too. I will update the first post accordingly.

Nearly there…

Ok so going to talk about the Sound Square training scene. As mentioned before this was part of a montage with water droplets interdispersed.

The sound square or weirding block was a tool that helped you initially confirm the sounds being made would work with the module paul says. "Sound, Rhythm, Motion - all form the base of the weirding way… Mastering the weirding block helps you understand this’ Paul makes a sound and the Square machine lights up.
This sequence is another that shows time passing Stilgar shows Paul plants in wind traps which is all part of the terraforming sub plot and really essential for the rain on Arrakis ending. This then leads into the Obelisk scene where Paul demonstrates the weapons power in the film.

There was a small exchange after Chani and Pauls love scene where Harah accepts that Paul will look after her but will not be a Lover without any dialogue just acceptence that Paul is disintetested in Harah sexually. But Paul treats both Stilgar and Harah with respect.

When Jessica takes the water of life this was chopped down quite a bit with the ritual itself a monk doing the rites. Monk “One among us has consented to enter the rite. She will attempt to pass within therefore we do not lose the strength of our reverend mother… This is the ultimate awareness spectrum narcotic. She must transform the poision configuration within her body. The Blue must be made clean… Now drink Jesdica”

The ritual is conducted as in the book verbally.

Jessica convulses and screams as in the film now some very intetesting visuals. The Mother Ramallo was to reach over to Jesdica with her hand but her hand was to pass into her head like dipping her fingers in water but into Jessicas head and face. The image of the fetus in water in the TV broadcadt is missing the whole Navigator rings.

The Mother Ramallo panics " You should have told us about the child. This changes both. What have we done?" Then the next image was to show Jesdicas head surfacing from a lake or water. Mother Ramallo says “I have been a long time waiting for you. Here is my life” Then as in the film the Mother Ramallo slumps over Dead and Jessica successfully changes the water with the Monk who exclaims it is the prophecy.

This seems to me that Jessica taking the water of life is nowhere near as visually impressive nor as culturally and mystically signifficant as was intended. I think this would be a signifficant scene for a directors cut most certainly. It is clearly a stand out scene amongst many.

I was watching the destination dune documentary and on Max Von Sydows actors title card still is from a deleted shot of him standing in front of the harkonnen flagship battered and bruised. Then on Dune info there is a photo of Paul Smith (Rabaan) carrying him on his shoulder. This preceeds the deleted footage that has been released. I would assume that means Rabaan was to beat up Kynes some more before throwing over his shoulder and then ripping his suit apart.

In the scene where Dean Stockwell (Yueh) examines the dead Harkonnen. The X-Ray is correct however the mirror image of the corpse is flipped vertically. This is noticeable because the heart plug is clearly shown on the wrong side of corpse vs x-ray. This is in addition to missing laser pen thing cutting open Dead Harkonnen Soldier censorship.

In terms of a definite intended edit when Yueh examines fremen in the palace with the light gun scanner. When mapes appears the dialogue “bene geseritt mother… The legend” Is correctly placed in this scene. However “where is your son? I must warn you you are in grave danger” Should be on the shots of Paul walking to his room in POV. As previously stated before the door opens we were meant to see mapes creeping up to the door before it opens. I have the feeling mapes shadow on the blue wall may preceed her entering Jesdicas room.

This also makes me think of the written notes Duke Leto writing to Baron and Jessica Reading note in room before mapes enters. Since we know what is meant to be written on those notes I am wondering if Lynch simply intended letting the viewer voyeur and read what would be written rather than confusing inner monologue thoughts? Something tells me this was probably to be read by the audience via text on paper I think now to avoid this being muddled.

Mapes going to see Jessica in her room was to come at some point after the hunter seeker sequence where as in the book it was mapes first goes to Jessica then hunter seeker with Paul. This I am sure of. Leto also goes to greet Duncun from Pauls Room after “If something should happen to me” conversation. Interestingly the comic contains other inner dialogue regarding The Duke exclaiming he will need Duncans strength in the coming days ahead…rather than Marrying Jessica dialogue. I kind of feel the comic is probably the correct version of events in terms of monologue. I wonder if Yueh crying in the Room was what goes between Leto and Duncan and then Leto going down the steps before Yueh attacks? I think that would make sense.

This part of the film in the Palace of Arakeen is in a complete mess and it really does need sorting proper. But it is still enjoyable but not reaching the best possible version of this yet.

In the costume documentary there is an uncensored shot of Kyle McGlaughen and Sean Young Love scene although brief it was meant to probably also be opaque and put over rolling sand dunes. So you would not see what minor nudity there was anyway really.