zombie84

Actually, you know not many people pick up on this, but near as I can tell, Jabba was not based on Tatooine at the time ESB was made, and none of the heroes knew where he was.

Think about it: Lando says, they'll find Han, and sets off to do so. Why would they need to do this if Jabba is just sitting around on Tatooine?

Luke says they'll meet on Tatooine--but he doesn't say that this is to rescue Han. Its just a rendevouz point. Its out of the way, and Luke's old haunting ground. Lando is taking off to get a head start on tracking down Han, and in a few days time they are going to have a secret meeting on Tatooine to regroup.

Jabba is on Tatooine in ANH, but that's because its a spaceport and he had to track Han there to shake him down for money; there's nothing that indicates he was indiginous to there, anymore than Greedo was. They just had been able to trace Han while he had a brief stopover. Because if Han was trying to avoid Jabba for fear of his life, why would he be hanging out around the corner when the entire galaxy was open to him? That's what makes the Jabba element in ANH so unexpected to him, that even when he's hiding out in a remote desert planet his debtors still catch up with him.

It's interesting to consider the possibilities of the ESB climax, where Jabba is unknown and has to be tracked down, with a Tatooine rendevouz to regroup after Luke is healed.

Luke: I'll meet you at the rendevouz point on Tatooine...Good luck you two.

Lando: Princess, we'll find Han. I promise.

Yeah, for me I always took ROTJ as being like a month after ESB. After all, Luke says he's going to meet Lando on Tatooine, and Lando is already on his way it seems, so I assumed that Luke left a couple days later while Lando infiltrated the palace.

But by official timeline, its a year. Never got that. It makes even less sense that Luke never went back to Dagobah either. Clearly it doesn't take place the next day, because Luke has matured more, he has a new Jedi outfit, continued training on his own, built a lightsaber, and Leia took the time to get a bounty hunter outfit while Lando somehow got a job as a palace guard. Its more than just a week after. But a year??

I'm still wondering why everyone waited a year to rescue him. I mean--A YEAR? Think about that. It's like if your best buddy was kidnapped before the wall street crisis and you only just now got around to rescuing him. I hope they never told Han what date it is, because I'm sure he was just assuming that it was like a week later. Luke in ESB says he'll meet them at Tatooine, it sounded like they were heading there the next day, as soon as Luke got a bit of rest.

The ESB Special-Special-Edition:

Luke: Good luck Lando. I'll meet you at the rendevouz point on Tatooine--in one year.

Lando: Okay Luke! See you in a year. Me and Chewie will just, uh, I dunno, fly around and stuff until then. I hope Leia doesn't care THAT much about Han.

Leia: I don't. That's why I'm staying on this cozy white medical ship for a whole year, even though we already have plans to meet on Tatooine to get Han.

Lando: Boy, the EU is gonna have to invent a whole bunch of shit to explain why we just sat around for a whole year, even when we just said we should meet up on Tatooine to get Han back.

I'm not sure how long you would want to hold your breath. The beauty of HD video is that on a television screen the human eye can't distinguish the difference between anything higher res, for the most part. You start approaching the limits of the amount of detail it is possible to resolve on a surface less the 50" wide. 2K is barely an improvement, so a 2k format wouldn't take off, 4k would be successful but seems so over-the-top, and would be so expensive to produce that there would be no point when there is a mass-market 1080 format.

That's why once I go Blu-Ray, I'm never going to buy another video format ever again. I'll never have the need for anything higher resolution in my own home. I don't think studios have quite grasped this yet, luckily, otherwise they would be milking the BR releases like they did with DVD. The whole home video industry is based on getting people to buy something they already have again. I have a suspicion that Blue Ray is going to partly kill the home video market in a few years once catalog titles are out.

Every DVD player I have had forgets the position after you turn off the player, so I would assume that Blu Rays, at least certain ones, are designed similarly. That was one thing I missed about VHS, I could cue it up at my house and bring it somewhere else and it would be where I left it.

You know, I could spend 100 hours of my life re-editing Attack of the Clones to be watchable, or spend 2 hours of my life watching somebody elses' efforts of the same basic film I've already wasted my life watching a dozen times, but I think I'd rather take that 2 hours and do something actually productive to myself. The problems with the prequels are so deep rooted that edits, which do help, only make it watchable, they don't make them good, and life is too short for something watchable.

8K wasn't available at the time of the 2004 SE. 4K was, but it wasn't yet widely used for home video--though it was widely used for films intended for theatrical exhibition, which would include the SE since this is effectively a new negative. But no, not even 2k, which had been in place since the 1990s. Oy. But if you think about it, its consistent with his feelings at the time--Episodes II and III were shot on 1080p resolution as well.

TPM is the one caveat in that it was scanned at 2K resolution, which was the highest resolution possible in 1997 when the live action was processed. It was shot on film, of course, but, since every single shot except one had to be digitized for an effect in it, the negative for TPM, which is probably saved in a computer, is only in 2K (the actual physical negative, since it would have been made from a computer print-out of a 2K scan, would be actually lower resolution).

doubleofive said:

His final conclusion that Lucas is a great idea man who needs to be restrained reminded me so much of Zombie that I wonder if he didn't have a part in it (RedLetter probably just read some of Zombie's articles).

 Trust me, I am definitely not the first person to post those sentiments. I think its an obvious conclusion to anyone who was disappointed with the new films and understands how both trilogies were made. He says he doesn't really know the facts after all so maybe he is wrong, but he's pretty much on the money.

thecolorsblend said:

THX is not listed on Wiki's LFL filmography.  And I thought the Empire of Dreams doco indicated that LFL only came about after THX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucasfilm

The point, though, is that several of the things you cite are niche titles for niche audiences.  THX 1138 is just about the dictionary definition of a non-mainstream release nowadays.  It's interesting, I really enjoy it but it's not going to do Indy numbers on DVD (or BRD).  Ditto a lot of other LFL releases.  Could Willow grow in stature if it gets a respectable Special Edition release?  Yeah, possibly, but what if you're wrong?  What if LFL spends millions on a deluxe Willow release that doesn't sell for anything?  That's a big hit for tiny LFL to take.

 On THX the first thing you see is the Lucasfilm logo, regardless of Wikipedia's omission.

As for the rest, of course they aren't going to do the same business that the two most popular franchises in history do! This, however, does not preclude worthwhile profit. The cost of making a DVD is relatively low. LFL has over a dozen titles in its library available, including American Graffiti, one of the greatest films in American cinema; the overhead from the two most popular franchises in history makes up for the less popular titles, and this is how all the other studios works--Logan's Run isn't any more popular than THX or Willow, for example. LFL made $100 million from the 2004 DVD set in a SINGLE DAY. That right there pays for every single title in their library ten times over, and that's just a day of sales. I don't think you really have assessed the situation properly. LFL is shit when it comes to DVD because their department is poorly run. They couldn't even do Star Wars right, even after three re-releases, and their Indy set is lacking too.

THX 1138 is a Lucasfilm production of a Warner Brothers release, just like Indiana Jones is a Lucasfilm production of a Paramount release, and Star Wars is a Lucasfilm production of a Fox release. This has been the norm with everything except ROTJ and the PT (ESB had a bit of financial support from Fox so they have a better deal).

It's true that some of those aren't top-tier, like Radioland Murders and More American Graffiti, but then most studio library releases aren't either. LFL has Howard the Duck and THX 1138, two cult classics that Anchor Bay would probably gladly pick up if it could, and Captain Eo would be very timely since everyone is about Michael Jackson now (that--and its a really good film). Droids and Ewoks would be bought by every SW fan that buys every fucking Steve Sansweet book. American Graffiti is a classic of cinema, period, that deserves a delux release and that would be immensely popular. Tucker and Willow are good releases too, but the existing DVDs are nothing special (Willow has some features, but I think its actually the Laserdisk video).

The thing is, a lot of these titles have been forgotten--because LFL keeps them locked up! Yeah, there's little demand, but there's little demand because the de-saturation of them from the marketplace takes away their own popularity.

LFL has a lot more product than it seems they do:

-CW (CG)

-CG(non-CG)

-Indy IV

-PT

-OT SE

-Radioland Murders

-Young Indy series

-Tucker

-Howard the Duck

-Ewok Adventure

-Ewoks: Battle for Endor

-Droids series

-Ewoks series

-Captain Eo

-Indy trilogy

-More American Graffiti

-OOT

-American Graffiti

-THX 1138 SE

-THX 1138 original

Here's the kicker: they are distributor for none of these. Not one. Lucasfilm isn't a studio and they aren't a distributor, they are just a production company that gets to oversee the films they were involved with. Star Wars is slightly different because they actually own the copyright, but they share none of the marketing, manufacturing and distribution costs there. 

If you look at the track record here, there's not a lot of winners. The Indy DVD set had the films in excellent quality, but poor special features; the THX 1138 DVD had both great picture and features, but it didn't have the original. Young Indy was an interesting set, but it was ridiculously overpriced. Other than that, everything seems to be from pre-existing Laserdisks, except Tucker, Radioland Murders and American Graffiti, both of which have outdated DVDs by now anyway which are basically barebones.

Lucasfilm has the worst track record in DVD. I don't know who manages their DVD department there, but whoever he is he is a total idiot.

Because then people spend the money twice, instead of a larger box set which would be less expensive. LFL did this--the 2004 releases of the SE then the 2006 OOT releases. Most people bought the 2004 release, and then a lot of us bought the 2006 release again.

I severely doubt it will be anything but the HD scan they made in 2004. Maybe with some new effects, but the impressioin I get is that was the sort of "for all time" master, at least certainly for home video--they've already released it in HD to numerous cable providers after all. They did it in HD so that they could release it in HD down the road, which would be Blu Ray--the cable high-def broadcasts seem to be more a matter of convenience, as in "well, we do have it in HD just sitting here so why not let it be shown on cable until the disk-based version is ready for release." Otherwise, if it was just intended for DVD, they needn't have done it in HD in the first place, nor spent all that money on the new special effects.

xhonzi said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Once I would have liked to see a film with an older wiser Hamill Luke, but after Indy 4 with an older Ford Indy I've realized Lucas would screw it up.

 Touché!

I was mildly surprised to see Harrison Ford in a movie with Brendan Fraser since I thought they were different caliber of actor.  But then I realized that I haven't enjoyed Ford in a movie in a long time...  Probably since before Six Days and Seven Nights (my first recollection of disliking a Ford performance).  What happened to this guy?

 He got divorced. His wife usually picked his roles for him, or at least acted as an advisor. Six Days Seven Nights was the first one he did after the divorce IIRC, and his career has been in the shitter ever since.

If there was OT deleted scenes I would rent it.

I guess this means that our petition couldnt have come at a more pressing time: if we don't challenge Lucasfilm on this now, we might never be able to.

I added a link on the update of my page (www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com). Not much, but I hope it gets some awareness out there.

Both of you might have been remembering the line from ESB where Lando says "Look, someone's up there" while piloting the Falcon and then Leia says "It's Luke" and they rescue him. Lando+Falcon+discovering an escaping Luke? In some weird way I can see how these elements could have been linked in memory. Or maybe you indeed just have a shared father-son hallucination :p

If it was the original title crawl then it must have been a theatrical print of some kind.

I don't actually know but I'm guessing that they use tracking software to seperate the different levels of depth in the image and then re-map them onto each other in 3D fields.

I'm not sure if Youtube would be capable of displaying the resolution needed to distinguish it properly though.

TheBoost said:

thecolorsblend said:

  

Like Superman, I think it would be swell if Star Wars had a seperate continuity for each property.

I do too but, again, that's not how movie-based franchises work.  Everything serves the movies.  Books and such are never (or rarely) treated as "adaptations".  "Extension" seems to be the watch word. 

 

Be careful what you wish for.  Between saga fans vs. OOT fans, prequel lovers vs. prequel bashers, weirdos like me who dig on the prequels but also prefer the OOT over the SE/2004, etc, I'd say that SW's fanbase is just about fractured enough.

 

 I see where you're comng from, but I'm not sure there is another movie based franchise that's comparable to "Star Wars" in terms of the volume, longevity, or popularity of the franchise materials built around it.

Multiple smash hit comics, best selling game after best selling game (including several that added signifantly to the mythos rather than be based on the films), dozens of bestseller novels, a hit TV show, and a holiday special.

I can't think of another film+media franchise that even comes close to touching the EU.

 

 Star Trek probably. You have OTS vs NG, NG vs DS9, people who like the dread "odd numbered movies" (ST 1,3,5, Insurrection and Nemesis), Kirk vs Picard debates, plus I'm sure that back in the day there was debates about whether the animated series was "canon", and don't forget, theres enough ST literature (some written by the cast members themselves) to give SW a run for its money (though it doesn't come close to the LFL money-making machine of today), plus a bunch of video games. I think the difference is that a) a lot of the old timers moved on because the original audience is now in their 50s and 60s, and b) most of us don't frequent ST forums, and c) even if we did, the fanbase isn't as big or popular as SW so as to not have enough people fighting.

Backstroke of the West!

I guess the best way to think of it is like OOT vs SE--I mean does it really matter if Hayden Christensen is in ROTJ or not? The original is still the original. But its nonetheless bothersome that it was written over in the first place. And changing slightly significant parts of the EU, like the Jaster Mereel storyline, invalidates the ability to suspend your disbelief that it's a plausible, connected universe, since if you want to continue to pursue stories you have to mentally disconnect large chunks of it.

Such is the nature of a body of work that was made between two other bodys of work (the OT and PT) whose writer does not care acknowledge the existance of. As much as was possible the EU writers were forbidden to tread on prequel turf since Lucas knew he would be going there, but a lot of unforseen elements got developed in the prequels--case in point, Boba Fett was added because of his popularity in EU.

The first post has been making me laugh for a good 24 hours now! Inded, I hadn't quite realised it but Uncle Owen really is the Charles Bronson/Clint Eastwood/Chuck Norris figure of the series.

This site is one of the reasons the GOUT was released at all, and will be a reason when a restored OOT is released years from now--its a terrific pressure point other than general sentiments "in the air" that people want the originals. "No, they actually put together a petition with 75,000 names." Makes a big difference in demonstrating demand in tangible ways.

EDIT

Speaking of which--why is the petition down?? It was taken down when it was announced the originals were coming to DVD in early 2006, but I don't know why it wasn't put back up the second the whole LD fiasco hit the fan. I would put a modification to "released on Blu-Ray" rather than "DVD", or simply not specific a format, because I'm sorry, the worlds best LD-capture as a bonus feature is not really what the petition was asking for. The OT.com mission statement was not completely fullfilled.