Youtube didn't exist at the time of Hyperspace, and I remember it was more difficult than I expected to find some of that stuff re-posted in forums because a lot of the better-known ones were afraid of getting slapped with cease-and-decit warning from LFL (which happened).
Oh god, you're right. Shhhhh, Lucasfilm might be listening!
My favourite documentary is OCP's Deleted Magic. Bar none, one of the most fascinating behind-the-scenes documents I've ever witnessed. Jambe's sort-of unofficial follow ups are pretty good too, and I still haven't seen his SW one, but for me Deleted Magic really made me see my favourite film in a new way, and had a lot of footage I had never seen before.
From Star Wars to Jedi is easily the best of the official OT docs. I'll admit I really like Empire of Dreams, but mainly for the never-before-seen clips. The doc itself is quite fluffy since it has to cover 3 films in like 2 hours and shys away from anything non-promotional, but some of the footage is extremely interesting. I haven't seen Classic Creatures in quite some time, but I remember it being quite interesting (and amusing!) but unfortunately ROTJ doesn't interest me so much. I wish there was a good ESB doc--the lost Michael Parbot doc seems so amazing because the clips from it outshine anything ever officially released at any time for any SW film. Its like the equivalent of TPM's "The Beginning", except for a film worth (re)watching.
The OT may seem to have almost as much inversion as the prequels, but this doesn't account for the actual content of what is being said.
Most of Yoda's ESB dialogue when he gets serious is not backwards speech. Rather, it is stylized to sound Medieval, and also give it an antiquated feeling, but is grammatically acceptable. The dialogue sounds very similar to the way Tolkien writes and the way some of his characters speak, a sort of reverent pre-20th century type of flowery sentence structure.
"Told you, did I--reckless is he. Now, matters are worse....No, there is another."
There is nothing backwards about any of that. "Told you, did I" is a perfectly acceptable antique-English sort of phrase. "Reckless is he, like his father." Same thing. "Easily they flow, quick to join one in a fight." "That place is strong with the dark side of the Force--in you must go." To me, these don't sound "backwards" so much as they have stylized elements to them which inverts part of the grammer to sound pre-modern but is nonetheless grammatically acceptable.
The prequels follow suit a lot of the time, and contain some inversion-free sentences. However, key pieces of dialogue are not just inverted, but made backwards to the point where they don't even make sense--and this is what stands out, so it seems like the character hasn't been understood. "A prophecy that misread could have been," as someone pointed out--what? If this was the OT first of all that sentence would have been completely normal, but if it had to have an inverted element it would have been "Misread the prophecy could have been." And, it is the fact that there are unnecessarily-inverted sentences--even if only two or three per film--that further stand out, such as "to the forward command centre take me", which is grammatically fine as an inversion, but one senses unnecessarily so, and that in the OT this line would have been left normal.
So, firstly, even though the OT-PT contrast is not extreme in terms of ratio, the two or three unnecessary uses per film make a big difference, and secondly, I think most of the OT examples aren't true "backwards speak" but simply pre-modern stylization, and while the PT has mostly legit uses of this it has truely backwards nonesense sentences that the OT would have never had. I do feel like ROTJ has a lot of these problems too, but they are not nearly as bad. I guess once ESB was over Lucas (and maybe Kasdan) never fully grasped how his own dialogue was structured, or maybe it was Kershner who made it more sensible all along.
The pod is to the right of Watto. There's also E.T.s in the senate.
It's there, trust me.
@ Puggo: Very much so. That's maybe one reason why Serenity won. It's pretty much just as well-acted, written and visually impressive as ESB in a lot of ways, and I think people take it as representing Firefly as a whole, so it's not that one is necessarily better or worse, it's just what is more relevant? ESB is 30 years old and not quite in the "hard" sf style IO9ers go for, while Serenity is relatively new and more in keeping with modern tastes. That said, ESB made it all the way to the finals and 2001 made it to the semi's because really good films still get appreciation by many people even when they are old, they just don't retain quite the same level as when they were newer and more stylistically (and thus experientally) relevant. Blade Runner and Terminator also made it to the semi's.
It's actually a bit of a surprise that Serenity managed to beat all these, but like I said, you have to consider the tastes of the people voting and Serenity has a really intense internet fanbase. As soon as people on Serenity forums start getting the word out to vote it to the top, it has staying power. Such as here: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=11&tid=48015
and here: http://melbournebrowncoats.com/2011/03/17/vote-for-serenity-in-io9s-march-movie-madness/
Star Wars has similar advantages. TF.N is always reported on polls to go support. Maybe they just missed this one.
It's possible. If they are going to finish the deleted scenes, then they will have to clean them up. There wouldn't be much to finish, actually; the Wampa scenes were abandoned and don't have the live-action material necessary to complete them, the Anchorhead scenes don't require further work, as does the original Cantina edit, while the sandstorm scene already had a matte painting completed for it before it was cut, and the opening Tatooine deletion was fully scored, edited and had VFX composited. The remaining deletions are just snippets of dialogue here and there, like the ones seen in Empire of Dreams. So I guess they could be finished--the sandstorm scene never had the dialogue recorded so even if they include the matte painting and do the one composite it needed, the scene will be still unfinished.
I would like for them to find the original treadmill negatives and sound tapes, since the silent black and white version was just a workprint dupe (although I don't know why it was silent--maybe they never recorded sound for it and planned to ADR the few lines). In fact, I really would like to see that workprint released in its entirety, like on Blade Runner. As much as I hate the idea of plunking down $120 for the SE yet AGAIN, I wouldn't even give it a second thought if it had the whole workprint. Deleted scenes, no, those will just go on Youtube. Stuff like a whole workprint is how they have to win over OOT'ers.
The BD were treated by Lowry for dirt and grain removal, to the tune of a couple million dollars, in addition to being chemically-washed and hand-cleaned in 1995 with additional shot-restoration and source-substitution for damaged sections. They ain't gonna be doing that for deleted scenes. It's doubtful they will even wash the film they are printed on, though there could probably be some dirt-removal or just plain ol DNR done to make them look cleaner.
RedFive said:
2001 is an easy contender for the greatest film ever made regardless of genre IMHO, but that doesn't have a huge, call-to-arms internet fan society like Serenity/Firefly does
This is exactly why. It doesn't surprise me that it was ESB vs Serenity in the end, because these have the strongest and most active fanbases online. In fact, the only reason the Serenity movie existed was BECAUSE of the online fans, just to put their strength in perspective. I'm sure ST made it pretty far up the list too because of fan community.
On the other hand, films like Planet of the Apes, 2001 and Forbidden Planet, which generally are in the top 10 sci-fi films of all time, aren't popular with grassroots fans. All this poll was is a popularity contest from the tastes of i09 users, and its no surprise that Firefly/Serenity did so well when you consider that. And again--being the runner up, ESB is definitely well loved over there, so I'm not sure what the outrage is.
The market is relative though--many other websites give you the same quality and almost the same quantity as Hyperspace without gouging your for money. Instead of being one of the companies that gives something back, they are one of the few that are actually taking more money for the same sort of stuff other companies give away. Half of the Hyperspace content wasn't even good, either. There was an occassional premium item, like an AOTC deleted scene that was never included on the DVD and was interesting to see or the entire archive of Bantha Tracks, but this was generally exceptional. Most of it was behind the scenes prequel photos and filler interviews. Lucasfilm simply knew that some SW fans were so rabid for stuff about the upcoming film(s) that they would pay for what is essentially promotional content. They got rid of it once the prequels were over because they knew there would not be as intense an interest for whatever else would be coming out.
I don't know why this is so shocking. Not everyone thinks SW movies are the greatest films of all time. In fact, some of the people closest to me think they kinda suck. But the fact that ESB made it to the finals is a pretty impressive sign--it won out against Alien, T2, Robocop, The Matrix and 2001. Io9 is a hard-sci-fi site and I'm surprised ESB got so far, because its a fantasy film and not hard science at all. I guess Serenity isn't either, but it definitely is the sort of thing that readers of that site would put in the finals. And, like many others have said, its a terrific film to one of the best sci-fi works of all time, let alone on television.
Personally, I think 2001 should have won. If this was 1990 it would be an outrage that anyone could think otherwise. But the relevance and popularity of older films wane and preferences change as newer films give you more choice and introduce new classics.
I doubted that it had anything to do with the BD. But, at the same time Ady is right--it's a weeeeird coincidence. The reason being, the month it closes is very likely the month they will announce the specs for the BD. Hmmm. But then, others are right--I browsed the official forums from time to time, and if you think TF.N is bad just take a look at the sad state of those boards. Maybe someone actually woke up and realized they were serving little purpose.
I thought that was actually a very well spoken and informative panel. I agree with pretty much everything everyone said, though I do agree with those here that Lucas should not have used judgemental terms with regards to sound/colour being "better" (in his defense, I don't think he meant it in those terms but merely that it was truer to life or more immersive which is the main argument he seemed to be making, as he is a longstanding fan of both black and white and silent cinema, especially the latter which he has compared his own films to).
I also believe him when he says that the 3D re-release is a way to give a generation a chance to experience the films on the screen for the first time while giving everyone a chance to experience the films in a way that no one has before. But then I am looking forward to the 3D release.
No word on any details of the set, other than the date, the price, the number of discs. I suspect the deleted scenes will be unrestored but in HD, but there's no info out there yet AFAIK. Specs will probably be announced in early summer.
It's weird to think that none of us would never have even really known each other if we were sitting at home with restored DVDs of the OOT in 2001 and then BDs in 2006. A very weird irony.
I don't do newsgroups so if anyone posts this in other locations, do let us know. Personally, Lee, I'm really looking forward to seeing this.
The filtering looks overprocessed and artificial. I would back off a bit on whatever DNR-style filters you have running to avoid the waxy, soft look I'm seeing in the caps. It also looks that in crushing the whites, the image has been dimmed a lot and looks murky. I don't know if there is any way of getting the white levels to not be so clipped without making the image dull but I think it would help a lot. I'm thinking more in regards to the shot of Luke in the homestead and Obi Wan duelling; other shots look pretty good but these ones have a murky quality to them.
Interesting project though. :) I like seeing how people tackle the same GOUT problems in their own ways.
The decision to re-do the FX in 1993 was not his idea. It was Dennis Muren who pressed it on him. Lucas just wanted to add the Jabba scene, an addition which he attempted to do for the 1981 modification which had the new crawl. He might have wanted to also add a few BG elements to Mos Eisley, but this is not totally clear. So, he never had the idea of doing large-scale FX changes until Dennis Muren and then other ILM staff started suggesting it. He then surmised it would be good R&D for the prequels, and so he started thinking up changes that would have relevant research qualities (i.e. crowd replication, BG replacement, CG close to camera).
It was a slippery slope and once he started he realized how much he liked it. But he was really just interested in sprucing up Mos Eisley and adding the deleted Jabba scene. If it was 1981 and he could have done whatever he wanted, evidence suggests this is all he would have done. I prefer the non-Jabba edit, just as I prefer the original crawl, but I would have let him get away with it for consistency/relevance the same as the 1981 crawl; not a big deal. I think most people would feel similar.
I've just learned from friends of the band that longtime Manowar drummer Scott Columbus killed himself today. He was the only drummer I've heard of who had to have his kit steel-plated in order to hold together under his pounding. RIP bud.
Lucas is the same basic person as 1977, artistically. Star Wars came out 50% the way he wanted, TPM came out 90%--his constraints in the early days and his heavier collaboration hid his true flaws. The only problem and the only real change since 1977 is that his ego grew sometime in the early 80s and then took over all other parts of his personality some time in the early 1990s. But then, what would you expect? He was the most revered mogul on the planet, he was treated by us and by even regular joes as though he was a god. In a way, it's hard to blame him for his personality change because its a product of the environment and understandable in some ways if you really think about it. For sure, he has a lot of psychological complexes beyond this, like his stubborness, obsession for control and reclusiveness, but those have always been there, and in fact in some ways the proper harnessing of those qualities was what made his early films good. Once the environment and context changed those qualities started becoming toxic, but in some ways you can't really blame him for the environment he found himself in.
I don't know if anyone is near Toronto here. But this is the best metal festival I have ever heard of existing in North America and it's in my own backyard.
Slayer, Megadeth, Billy Talent, Motorhead, Anthrax, Opeth, Children of Bodom, Rob Zombie, Mastadon, Anvil and Diamond Head all on the same weekend. Plus more. Not bad, eh? $130 for a weekend pass is a pretty fucking sweet deal IMO. I suggest everyone in or near the upper east coast get your ass over here.
Clash of the Titans was not meant to be in 3D until very soon before its release. One of the reasons that films like Alice in Wonderland and Clash of the Titans looked pretty poor in 3D was because the decision to convert them came very late in post production, due to the recent success of Avatar and the just-happened rush to get 3D content out. So, rather than being done right, they needed to be readied in half the time they normally have, the results being less than stellar as one would expect. 3D conversion is an expensive process for the simple reason that it is a very long process. The SW releases are being given the longest conversion time that any 2D film has ever been given, as far as I know, and therefore I would expect they would be the best 3D conversions ever seen.
Another reason stuff like Alice and Titans were not impressive was because the way the 3D was used--in order to emphasize the dimensionality, shots are given 3D effects that are way too exaggerated because the suits at the studio want to "wow" you with the maximum amount of 3Dness. Luckily, in the case of the SW releases a lot of the people working on them are critical of some 3D releases for that very reason and have actually stated that the 3D work will be restrained when it is appropriate, so that things look natural and not just "popping out of the screen."
So, IMO, there is every reason to suppose these releases will be of the highest quality. I for one am looking forward to them.
At least now I have a reason to watch ROTJ in high def.
At the end of the film it's crawled into the lifeboat piping to die, until Ripley forces it out with the steam, which is one reason why it's so sluggish when it gets up. I guess it's not overtly stated or anything, but that was supposed to be the idea.