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zombie84

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21-Nov-2005
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12-Jan-2024
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Post
#234107
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234107/action/topic#234107
Time
Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
as I now confess and then run for cover .... that I am the world's only megastarwars fan who … doesn't like The Empire Strikes Back.
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
No, Anchorhead feels the same way you do.


Gaffer speaks the truth.
I’m not a fan of Empire. Too contrived, too slick. Star Wars was a complete story. A reluctant bystander gets drawn into a battle against an evil lord and with the help of a mentor and an unwilling pair of shady characters, he rescues the princess and defeats the bad guys. It’s an outer space fairy tale, and it worked very well.

No more of the story needed to be told. Doing so started the process of shrinking the universe and weakening the story. The characters in Star Wars aren’t related to each other and it’s just by chance that their paths cross. The adventure they all go on because of the chain of events that brought them all together is what makes the movie so big and magical. Empire is none of those things.

In fact, I haven’t seen Empire in about 7 or 8 years and I can’t imagine I’ll bother with it again.

Star Wars is the movie that awed me as a boy. It’s the only one I’m interested in.



I'm very glad to see fans like this on these boards, and am very impressed that you've stuck around the fandom as only like 15% of the series is still devoted to this film. Makes this place much more diverse.
Post
#234063
Topic
OOTCon
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234063/action/topic#234063
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: zombie84
Here is an interesting story:

In LA a man once owned a 35mm copy of Star Wars. He was a private collector of 35mm prints and had converted his garage into a screening room. The neighbourhood kids would sometimes gather in his garage and they would be delighted to a private screening of Star Wars, back in the days before home video was common. Somehow, wind of this caught up with Lucasfilm/the authorities. The print was confiscated and the man either jailed or fined, i can't remember.

The laws have sort of changed since then in light of the explosive growth of home video but its an interesting story nonetheless. I would say if it is a privately held screening then there is absolutely no problem with it--if it is a 35mm print then some complications may arise, especially if it is popular and the print is not a legally-obtained one (which it likely will not be).


That's really sad and horrible. Is this someone you knew personally, a story you heard from someone, or a clever anecdote?


I read it in a book written by a film collector about the film collecting subculture. I'm not sure how he heard about it, maybe a newspaper or another collector or by the man himself, buts its true AFAIK. Roddy McDowel I believe had a similar incident happen, as the FBI raided his mansion in the late 70's and seized his 35mm collection. He got off by ratting out the other sellers and collectors (but in his defense he thought the whole thing was 100% legal).

Post
#234036
Topic
OOTCon
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234036/action/topic#234036
Time
Here is an interesting story:

In LA a man once owned a 35mm copy of Star Wars. He was a private collector of 35mm prints and had converted his garage into a screening room. The neighbourhood kids would sometimes gather in his garage and they would be delighted to a private screening of Star Wars, back in the days before home video was common. Somehow, wind of this caught up with Lucasfilm/the authorities. The print was confiscated and the man either jailed or fined, i can't remember.

The laws have sort of changed since then in light of the explosive growth of home video but its an interesting story nonetheless. I would say if it is a privately held screening then there is absolutely no problem with it--if it is a 35mm print then some complications may arise, especially if it is popular and the print is not a legally-obtained one (which it likely will not be).
Post
#233779
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233779/action/topic#233779
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
But is George's artistic arc that different from the natural arc of many artists' works, or of many people's accomplishments, or of most human lives?

American Graffiti and Star Wars in the 70's giving way to The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith at the dawn of the next century is, to my mind, a deterioration in talent and skill.

But is it so far off from the natural order of growth and decay that colors most lives, most accomplishment and most art on this planet? I heartily applaud artists who can continue to produce great works for decades, in their old age as well as in their youth. But how much should we chide George Lucas for not rising to that rare and lofty level?


In fact, I personally don't chide him for (imo) losing his talent - but rather for betraying his legacy (or for being fool enough to not know when he is betraying his legacy).


.


This is a very good point. Few artists have the consistent longevity of say Scorsese or Speilberg. Even Copolla could not even touch his achievements of the 1970's (his last film was fucking Jack!) and Kershner, the supposed genius responsible for the majestry of ESB, could only follow that film up with crap like Robocop 2. Lucas simply peaked in 1977, and its not uncommon--in fact, its downright common. The only difference is that, unlike most other directors, he had such a fanbase and following that the dissapointment was magnified many times more than what any other typical director would.

Post
#233430
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233430/action/topic#233430
Time
Its because he goes back and changes it so much. Star Wars was a lighthearted adventure film, nothing more. ESB turned the series into a deep, mythological fantasy film for adults. ROTJ turned it into a poignant tale of redemption. And in each film he used as an opportunity to indulge in one of his fantasys, eccintricities and tastes (i.e. interconnected epic, primitives versus technology, pirate battles, artificial characters, visual tone poems). The Lucas that made ROTJ was not the same Lucas that made ANH. And in TPM he was a completely different person, so the PT is completely and utterly different in its style and tastes because Lucas was different. But because he was making all of these as one connected tale he was forced to assert and present them as continuous and consistent, even though the material and content was very inconsistent. Had he made them each as their own self-contained series or film this problem wouldn't exist, but he tried this in 1987 with Willow and it failed--so rather than develop new material he allowed himself to experiment and indulge his various sensibilities by selling the material as "Star Wars." To complicate matters, he had inadvertently created a modern mythology and a cultural phenomena, which he clearly did not intend nor want any part of (who would?). Fans demanded more and if he didn't then he would be publicly hounded (ie what happened from 1984-1992, as well as now with the OOT) and so he gave in--its just that he could not stay in the same bubble forever, so even if he said he was making films with the Star Wars title, inevitably he was a different man inside and thus the films were not the same, nor completely consistent--I don't even think he notices, let alone cares. Its too hard to be objective when you are so close to the material. Star Wars has, unfortunately for him, become his life, and he has been cursed with tunnel vision ever since 1980, as inevitably happens.
Post
#233111
Topic
Info Wanted: anyone doing an AOTC - IMAX Edit (?)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233111/action/topic#233111
Time
from IMDB:

The film was released on IMAX theaters on 1 November 2002. The reformatted IMAX version was approx. 20 minutes shorter than the theatrical release. These are some of the scenes that has been cut from the IMAX version:
A long scene in Palpatine's office involving Yoda and Amidala. Palpatine suggests Kenobi and Anikin as bodyguards.
Jar Jar greeting the Jedi pair as they enter Amidala's quarters.
Kenobi talking to the Jedi head librarian.
The hilltop scene on Naboo where Anakin rides a grazing animal and Amidala and Anakin talk about political science.
Mace Windu and Yoda discuss whether they should reveal that the Force is no longer as easy to use.
The scene in which Yoda says that while Anakin is somewhat arrogant, that is an increasingly common failing among Jedi.
Owen Lars greeting Anakin and Amidala at the farm.
The confrontation between Count Dooku and Kenobi is shorter.
Jar Jar being set up by Palpatine to get the Senate hand more power to him.
Part of the scene where Padme sees Anakin for the first time in 10 years. The cut goes directly from the elevator to ObiWan discussing security.
Part of the scene where Anakin and Padme leave Coruscant has been trimmed
The scene where Anakin and Padme meet with the Queen has been eliminated
Scenes with Anakin and Padme on Naboo have been trimmed, with the picnic scene eliminated completely.
When Obi Wan was captured and met with Dooku, after the line "I'll never join you" it cuts directly to the Senate floor without Dooku responding "It may be difficult to secure your release".

I'm sure there were little subtle edits as well, like a few frames here and there to shorten the length.
Post
#232918
Topic
Star Wars film versions and best DVD sources
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232918/action/topic#232918
Time
Originally posted by: Mentasm
Originally posted by: zombie84
I like that that site included the PT, although they neglected to include the original establishing shot of Palpatine's office (which was a very beautiful shot); interesting that they noticed the deletion of BG traffic from AOTC--apparently there are over a hundred such minor edits, which were included on the digital version of the film but not the 35mm version (hence these are not actually DVD changes).


If anyone knows of stuff that I haven't listed in those articles then just let me know and I'll try to include it in a future update. I included most of the major changes, but I never really expected the articles to get as big as they have, so the little things didn't make it. What establishing shot are you referring to, and in which film is it in?


In TPM. The new air taxi sequence replaces the original establishing shot that followed qui gons "the situation is much more complicated," which was a shot of Palpatine's office tower at sunset.
Post
#232328
Topic
Star Wars film versions and best DVD sources
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232328/action/topic#232328
Time
I like that that site included the PT, although they neglected to include the original establishing shot of Palpatine's office (which was a very beautiful shot); interesting that they noticed the deletion of BG traffic from AOTC--apparently there are over a hundred such minor edits, which were included on the digital version of the film but not the 35mm version (hence these are not actually DVD changes).

Also, according to your list there is an HD version of the 1997 SE's--where the hell can i download this???

And the ROTS bootleg is not necessarily from the "workprint," which implies the rough cut, but rather a timecode print of the final version.

Also, regarding the 1977 bootleg--I don't believe this is a camcorder bootleg, but an actual telecine.
Post
#232104
Topic
If Star Wars flopped....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232104/action/topic#232104
Time
I saw Revenge of the Sith at a drive in. Nuff said.

As for the theory that movies would have "died out" that is preposterous--the 1970's were the most profitable and popular years in Hollywood history. Each year brought a bigger success than the previous year and Star Wars was the pinnacle of this. The 1970's were when movies became a cultural thing, a pop thing. You had Coppola becoming the first director to be paid over $1 million dollars, you had movies regualarly grossing over $30-$50 million, which was a big deal, and you had the first series of film to break the $100 million mark, like Godfather and American Graffitti. In the 1960's Hollywood almost died out, quite literally, as theater attendance reached record lows, Jack Warner and Darrly Zanuck sold their studios, and all that was being made was Fred Astair musicals and crap like Cleopatra which practically destroyed FOX studios. The American New Wave literally saved Hollywood, and it was they who brought movies into the limelight and into the cultural phenomenon that we know them as today. This is why American Graffiti, Godfather and Jaws were able to make so much money--after Easy Rider, the success of French Connection, Chinatown, MASH, Five Easy Pieces and Exorcist, among others, built up movies into a popular event, and thus the first of the blockbusters were able to become so successful. Star Wars didn't "save" the movies--it capitalised on them!
Post
#232082
Topic
If Star Wars flopped....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232082/action/topic#232082
Time
I don't believe this crap about "Star Wars killed the movies." Star Wars just happened to be the film that kick-started this thread--and certainly accelerated it--but it would have happened anyway. Jaws and Rocky had been thrilling audiences with uplifting summertime films the consequtive years before Star Wars, and Heaven's Gate, Days of Heaven, The Sorceror, New York New York and Raging Bull killed the American New Wave before the "blockbuster" explosion of the 80's ever happened. Star Wars made it happen faster but it was already in place. I think MTV is much more responsible than Star Wars. The "blockbuster" explosion didn't really occur until around 1984 or so with Terminator and Rambo, and the "80's action film" combined with the shortening attention span due to MTV and television are the primary factors IMO. Most people forget that the whole 80's thing didn't really hit until the later half of the decade (1984-1989) with the endless slasher sequels, Arnold and Stallone pictures, and the stupidity and deviousness of Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer (Flashdance, Top Gun, Beverly Hills Cop, Days of Thunder) who were the ones responsible for converting the industry from director-oriented dramas to producer-oriented action films. Lucas and Speilberg paved the way but they did so accidentally--Jaws and Star Wars are terrific, character-oriented films, and Rocky is a fairly gritty drama by todays standards. Lets not forget--it was us, the audiences, who ultimately took power away from the so-called New Hollywood and into the hands of people like Joel Silver.
Post
#231787
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231787/action/topic#231787
Time
And the loyal fans of Terminator were understandably upset. Personally i prefer the 5.1 mix of Terminator but i would be mad if the original was not included. Superman fans have been up in arms for the last five years because of that films new 5.1 mix. Manhunter is an extremely cult film, as is Last House on the Left, and hence the fan outcry is not heard because they are so few in number. Star Wars is the most popular motion picture ever made--therefore the fan outrcry will also be the loudest of any movie ever made, which certainly seems to be the case.
Post
#231786
Topic
If Star Wars flopped....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231786/action/topic#231786
Time
Well firstly Star Wars was not some low-budget independant film. Lucas has created this misconception through the years. It was a medium to high budget studio picture.

I don't believe it could have flopped, simply because there are enough sci-fi fans in 1977 who would have gone and saw anything called "Star Wars" that a worst-case scenario would be about $5-8 million domestically, which when you account for overseas sales would just barely make its money back. In this case, i believe Lucas could have at least gotten to the meeting phase with Fox to discuss doing his planned low-budget sequel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which the studio would have green-lit with about a $5-8 million budget, and perhaps some changes demanded to ensure more commericiality. Probably meaning more romance and maybe a shirtless Luke. This film would probably just be able to make its money back as well, but then Lucas would probably be tired of doing silly sci fi flicks and would probably decided not to do a third film. He had already developed Raiders of the Lost Ark with Phillip Kaufman by then, and had booked his 1977 vacation to Hawaii before the first Star Wars was released, meaning his partnership with Speilberg would still be forged on that fateful trip. Which meant that following the relatively-unsuccessful sequel to the relatively-unsuccessful Star Wars he would still get rich with Raiders of the Lost Ark. After that, with more wealth and power he would probably try to make the third contractual Star Wars film with the budget he wanted, and make a high-budget and probably successful Star Wars III that again would be a stand-alone fun adventure film like the first two, and it would probably be pretty successful.

After that, who knows--maybe he would settle down into a producer role like he did for a while, raise his family with his wife. He would probably try to return to directing in the late 80's, probably with a more esoteric film like THX 1138, which of course would not do well, and would probably live a relatively comfortable life making these types of films, with income from the two successful Indiana Jones sequels keeping him financially secure. Meanwhile the Star Wars trilogy would develop a cult following, and maybe in the late 90's FOX would return to do one more installment after all the fan demand and CGI advancement, perhaps with or perhaps without Lucas involved. This film would probably be fairly successful as well, and would probably spawn reknewed interest into the cult series from the 70's, perhaps leading to yet another sequel or even an attempted television series. After a few milks from the cash cow people would move on to the next thing and the series would be remembered only by its cult fan base, and Lucas would probably be retired by then.

Very interest what-if.
Post
#231427
Topic
Info Wanted: 70mm Film Cel Scans (good reference or pointless?)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231427/action/topic#231427
Time
Damn, those are the real deal! The sample is lower quality but it still looks abolsutely fabulous and you can't get a high quality frame like that any other way. I am very tempted to get this. The condition of them is also pretty good, although a few of the ANH shots have a pink or green hue to them that i don't believe is natural.
Post
#230947
Topic
Lucas Announces Plans for Prequel Special Editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/230947/action/topic#230947
Time
Originally posted by: THX
I think it's pretty obvious that the character of Qui-Gon was written as Obi-Wan and that the younger Obi-Wan was added when the (terrible) decision was made to have Anakin be younger than Luke was in SW.


Yup. In fact in the first draft of TPM, Qui Gon doesn't appear until the coruscant scenes; Kenobi is already a full knight who discovers Anakin on Tattooine, believes in him and barters for his freedom in order to train him--then Qui Gon, Kenobi's former master, tags along from Coruscant onward and gets killed by Maul at the end.