When you downmix, you are at the whim of your hardware. Ideally, the sound coming from the left and right speakers would be the correct mix of left, right, and center channels and it would just dump the surround (I don’t know if any of them rematrix it).
All the original stereo tracks contain matrixed surround channels. If you have 2 speakers (most TV’s), that would be the best option for optimum sound. You should use the right mix for your. The best way to check is to play them and see which one you like best. Which sounds the best to your ears.
I laugh at people buying 4K TVs… your eyes are almost certainly not good enough to tell the difference in the vast majority of viewing scenarios. Total waste of money
If we were just talking about the absolute resolution, you are right. At my normal viewing distance I can’t tell the difference between 720 and 1080. I’m certainly not going to see much improvement from a 4k screen. But it isn’t just the resolution. The more pixels you have to display the image data, the better the image looks. The pixels start to disappear and be truly invisible. I’ve known this about printing for years, but when you apply it to video, it really helps the realism of the image, even if you are watching a 480 DVD. With the proper hardware, everything will look better on a 4k screen, even if you never get a UHD player or media.
I just ran across this (in fact I haven’t watched it) so I’m not making any judgements about what it says.
http://www.avclub.com/article/time-has-come-pit-rogue-one-and-force-awakens-agai-254577
Star Wars movies are so mythic and overexposed it’s hard to find a nice, quiet, sober critical analysis of them—away from the hubbub of their release spectacles or the weight of the vast lore bearing down on them. Lessons From The Screenplay attempts to do just that in a new video, applying classic screenwriting principles to Rogue One and The Force Awakens in order to determine what works and what doesn’t in the franchise’s latest installments. The answer is: a little bit of both.
Good analysis of the female leads, but quite misses the mark by not exploring the other main characters. Some of the failings of one character are made up for by the well done aspects of others. And he falls for the lie that telling is always bad. Telling is sometimes more expedient for story telling when you want to cram a lot into a short space. He also puts all his eggs into the characters and fails to address the plot of the two movies. A very good assessment of Jyn and Rey, but not a very good overall assessment of the two films.
I find it interesting that various people place RO and TFA in opposite places in their ranking. Some put RO between the OT and PT, some put it below the PT. Some put TFA between the OT and PT and some put it below the PT. Few (except it seems on this page) place both between or both below. It seems to fall into line with whether the poster finds some redeeming quality in the PT or not. Those who do tend to put RO over the PT and TFA below it. Those who hate everything about the PT tend to put TFA over the PT. I’m sure that is not true of everyone, but a growing number seem to fall into one of those two groups.
For me Star Wars was always about the Rebellion vs. the Empire. I think that is why I love RO and Star Wars Rebels. That is what I have wanted more of all these years. TFA went backward and didn’t do it well. The PT are flawed. I think part of that is the story that Lucas had in mind. His notes to Alan Dean Foster back in 1976 for the original novel bear out that the PT was always going to be political as the collapse of a great Republic would have to have that as a component of the story. I have found it interesting since the PT finished to read the description of Palpatine as an ineffectual puppet controlled by others because that is exactly what Palpatine’s public persona is. We got his alter ego in Darth Sideous in ROTJ and the dual nature in the PT. That is the part of the story I love. The rest of the characters are pawns in Sideous’s game… and none of them realize it until too late. But all that depth that characterized the OT and to a lesser extent the PT is missing in TFA. I can see where the characters and settings could win over many, but the story is the weakest of all the stories to this point.
Lucas and Abrams have different strenghts and weaknesses and to me, Lucas’s work even in the PT is superior to Abrams work in TFA. I can see why others would see it the opposite. But those same strengths that Lucas had that came out in the OT are there in RO. If it has weaknesses, they are similar to Lucas’s and quite different from Abrams’. So this difference of opinion makes a lot of sense because it is two different view of the what made the OT great and the PT bad.
I always liked this shot, since not only is it the last we see of poor Owen and Beru, but it’s the only time we see this set in the film:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/206702Here’s a regrade based on one of the technicolor frames of the dinner scene, which shows a similar warm color grading:
I would feel more confident if this were at least based off of a scan of the frame rather than a photo of it.
Hi Folks,
sky Germany is doing it again and will air all 7 Episodes on the first weekend of may on their sub-channel sky Hits.
Due to the magic of a Linux based receiver box I’m able to directly record the decrypted Transport Streams untouched on HDD without the need to attach some HDMI capturing devices. They are broadcasting in 1080i50 at an approximately data rate of around 10MBit, no broadcasting logos.Having enjoyed the excellent work of Harmy and many other people in this community more than once, I would be more than pleased to share the streams with anyone for whatever preservation purpose they could be needed.
I will let you know when everything is on my HDD. Any upload and hosting support is welcome.
Regards, disco
My interest is largely dependent on which version of the films they show.
As I’ve gone over the laser bolts, I just have to wonder what the hell the Star Destroyer gunners were shooting at. And there are a lot of flashes of minor hits, but only one big hit. Maybe they can’t shoot any better than Stormtroopers.
Yeah, after thinking about it, I’m going to do a small gateweave on the planet/moon plate to mimic the movement I noticed in the 77 source that Williarob so kindly provided. That looks much better. I still need to balance the colors and brightness of each component. I want to get them aligned first.
And the rough assembly of the flyover is done.
https://vimeo.com/214904546
password: OT flyover
I added some grain and gateweave to hide some of the defects and to test how that plugin works. The bad thing about the way I put this together is that the backgorund is absolutely still and the moving elements from the 77 sequence have a bit of gateweave. There are a number of flaws that I have yet to address and a few that I won’t be touching.
I think the only way we will see an official release of the OOT is if in the process of archiving or as part of rescanning and remastering the digital master to higher quality they need to turn to those original elements. Otherwise it will never happen. Though I could see another GOUT type release as a bonus content. Perhaps rescanning and half-assed cleanup of those 1985 interpositives. George authorized it once, so I think it is safe to say Lucasfilm and Disney could go that route without consulting him. I personally think it would have been awesome as part of he 40th to issue 3 disc versions of the OT (the original, the 97 SE, and the Blu-ray versions) to celebrate the history and the changes. But we have two more 40th’s coming up in 3 and 6 years. Who knows.
I’m on a quest for a better copy of the alternate end credits if you hadn’t guessed. At the moment I’ve used Puggo for timing and SSE for the text and recreated a version, but there is nothing like a good quality copy of the original.
The 1977 bootleg features the mono soundtrack as Beru’s dialogue is different for the Lars dinner scene:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajNDAyT0tGTjVCd0E/view?usp=sharing
Which end credits does that copy have? Is there space between John Williams and the LSO credits or are the together. I’m guessing there is a few lines of space between them (like the GOUT). The only two copies of the alternate end credits (Puggo and the pre-ANH bootleg VHS) have the stereo mix of Beru.
I finally have the ships isolated - 415 frames. Still need to tweak the edges a bit, but that layer is largely done. The tweaks only affect where the Star Destroyer crosses each moon and where it moves in front of the Blockade Runner. Now I just have the laser layer to finish. Much easier since most of the frames are blank, but I have to make sure the laser bolts are free of stars and other artifacts and that I don’t miss any. I have the Engine Glow already done. I have a couple of tweaks left to the stars and planets (making sure the edges of the planets are right and the stars are the right intensity) and then I can make a rough cut.
Honestly it’s a little shocking that there aren’t a lot more 97 film prints to scan.
The ones with the money and skill to do that have put the OT as the first priority.
You are planning a much more extensive revision that I have in mind. But do you mind if I appropriate the Star Destroyer over Tokodana for my edit?
I would also like to add, that the TB broadcast for A New Hope is missing the end credits, which have been replaced with a laserdisc version of notably lower quality. The Reivax A New Hope was taken directly from the digital master, I believe, and features the highest quality of any of the 1997 films available. It has the original English crawl (the GKar are German), but have French subtitles during the crawl, and for Greedo’s and Jabba’s lines.
I don’t have the Reivax version and with it only being ANH, I’m not that interested. I’d prefer all three films have the same quality, even if it is slightly inferior. And there isn’t much to do about the subtitled scenes except take them from the TB version which has no subtitles. The better quality the rest of it is the more jarring switching sources would be. Still, I might have to get it just because I have become a bit obsessed with having every source I can find.
One thing to note about the TB us that it has been slightly sped up for its PAL conversion.
Yes, the original 24 fps is is preserved in the 25 fps PAL, same for GKAR. Same for any PAL laserdisc. PAL sources are actually the best for preserving and restoring the original 24 fps. It is a simple matter to slow them back down to the 23.976 fps video standard that is used for movies. The audio usually suffers a bit, but the picture benefits greatly.
One of the worst movies ever made? A bit of hyperbole. One of the worst successful blockbusters ever? sure.
True. But when you look at the viewing over time for the original release, TPM had sustained business. Fans kept going to see it. By the time you get to ROTS, the fans went, but didn’t keep going and the business quickly fell of. ROTS set records for initial viewing (opening night, opening weekend, world wide box office), but it could have been bigger if the fans had kept going. That is probably the biggest indicator that most people around the world consider the PT inferior to the OT. That’s why I’m never surprised when someone puts TPM over ROTS.
And as someone recently reminded us, when you compare any of the PT to the Ewok movies and the Holiday Special, they don’t stink very much at all. Only nostalgia keeps me watching the Holiday Special, but I’ve owned the Ewok movies on DVD for years and I have only watched half of the first one. If we are going to talk about crap Star Wars installments, that is really what we should be talking about. ATOC is so much better.
There were several broadcasts of the 97 SE in Europe. The GKAR and TB versions are out there and far superior to the LD version. GKAR tends to be sharper, but has some missing frames. TB tends to be more complete, but not quite as sharp. I am currently working on a remastering/reconstruction of the 1981 title/crawl/flyover for A New Hope in HD (the best sources are a 35 mm print with super crushed blacks and the various LD sources - none of which is equal to the 35 mm print scans of the rest of the film). My next project is to combine the GKAR and TB versions to maximize the picture quality and use the AC3 audio from the LD and the DTS tracks from the theatrical audio. At the moment I’m not sure what level of color correction I will attempt (faithful to the 97 SE choices or closer to the original theatrical colors). The main purpose is to use it to help guide my choices in color correcting and restoring the DVD/blu-ray version. GKAR and TB are out there, I think spleen might have them. Barring that, althor1138 just put up on spleen his preservation of the SE LD with the AC3 and DTS audio that I intend to use. It is surprisingly high quality considering the source, but it isn’t as good as GKAR or TB.
After having an “Easter marathon” my current ranking is
1./2. - Star Wars / The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Attack of the Clones
4. The Clone Wars
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Rogue One
9. Caravan of Courage
10. Battle for Endor
11. The Star Wars Holiday Special
12. Revenge of the Sith
Ah… The two Ewok movies and THS added in. Well, I consider all those to fall below TFA in my ranking. I don’t get liking ATOC more the ROTJ, TPM, or ROTS. Care to explain why you rank it so high. Just curious.
Clone Wars was very good
Wait, the movie?
It was in theaters, even though it really was cobbled together from episodes they originally planned on airing.
I happen to enjoy Frink. He reminds me of this disagreeable co-worker I have.
Thanks?
Try as he might, Frink has yet to successfully make me question my enjoyment of the PT.
I’m not sure what gave you the impression that I’m trying to do so. It’s certainly your right. I think it’s crazy to give the PT a C and TFA a D but I’m not having trouble sleeping at night because you did.
It is the way you tend to disagree. And I’m very glad my opinion of TFA does not keep you up at night.
There are many ongoing disagreements. Since I am one of the few who actually like the Prequels I get a lot of flack for it. But that is fine. I actually think all 9 theatrical Star Wars films are very good. The OT is outstanding, the PT is adequate, Clone Wars was very good, TFA is less adequate than the PT and Rogue One is nearly as outstanding as the OT. I watch a lot of movies and my opinions do not always fall in line with others. I’m used to it. I happen to enjoy Frink. He reminds me of this disagreeable co-worker I have.
I keep coming back to this topic because they are releasing new movies and because I’m interested in other opinions. I may not agree with them, but sometimes others can give you fresh insight and make you question if your previously held opinion is valid. Try as he might, Frink has yet to successfully make me question my enjoyment of the PT. Mainly because I see in the PT a different style of film and I can appreciate that style. It reminds me more of old hollywood where the OT reminds me of the 50’s science ficiton and samurai films. If I were a teacher grading these films, each of the OT gets an A+, Rogue One is right there with them, but I haven’t decided what kind of A (A+, A, A-). Clone Wars is a solid B, the PT are C and TFA is D (so much right but some key fails - a good effort).
And I have something to compare it to as well. I am first and foremost a Star Wars fan, but in the 80’s, when Star Wars was just 3 films and 4 books (no new movies, books, or even an RPG), I became a big Star Trek fan. They had new movies throughout the decade and TNG started, plus a series of books (that I think still puts the Star Wars franchise to shame for volume). I can honesly say I like all 6 Star Trek films and I get a lot of flack for that. 1 and 5 are not often fan favorites and get greatly derided for their quality. But I look at both of them and instead of seeing inferior quality, I see two movies that are far more like the original series than the other 4 movies. Roddenberry gave us his unvarnished vision of Star Trek 3 times. The Cage, The Motion Picture (the story was titled In Thy Image), and Encounter at Farpoint. All three tend to be slow paced and lacking in some of the action, but they make up for it in thought provoking story. And the original series often ventured into mythology for story ideas and Shatner followed the same pattern when he came up with the story for The Final Frontier. What Star Trek V is is the single movie that is closest to the original series in tone and story style. Shatner’s vision was perhaps out of touch with the 80’s, but that movie fits very well along side Who Mourns for Adonis and Plato’s Stepchildren. Because of that, I like it. I rank it as the worst of the films, but that does not mean I don’t like it.
Tying that in to this conversation, while I think TFA is the most trouble ridden theatrical story we have seen, I still like it. I just think it is very inferior to the others. I probably like it more than many movies that I think are better done, but, like the prequels, it is Star Wars - a universe I love - so I automatically like it far more than any movie of similar quality. In fact, I probably consider it at a similar level to Star Trek V: the Final Frontier. Both have story issues that bring me out of the story if I think about them. But there is still a lot to like. The PT, to relate it to Star Trek, are more like Star Trek: The Motion Picture - not quite up to the same standard because the story goal was different. Now, Star Trek has hundreds of episodes so the quality of production and writing is all over the place, but nothing Star Wars has never sunk to the low that is the TOS episodes Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, Spock’s Brain, or Turnabout Intruder. I hate Turnabout Intruder so much that I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen it whereas the rest I could not begin to tell you.
So ranking is relative to each individual. This is a forum dedicated to the original trilogy and preserving the original version of it. I really consider the OT to be comprised of 7 movies. The original, unnumbered Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope, Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, and the special editions of each (I really can’t consider the different editions as different films because the home video tweaks don’t change that much compared to how altered the original SE are compared to the OUT). Similarly just because there are two opening crawls, two end credits, and four audio mixes, because there are no story edits, Star Wars and Episode IV: A New Hope always rank the same and might as well be the same movie - except that adding Episode IV: A New Hope forever altered it. One stands alone as an industry changing film and one is part of a Saga. That’s why I waste time rendering two different versions and why I keep plugging away at remastering the 1981 crawl/flyover. I guess you could say they are like twins with different birthdays and fingerprints.
Okay, this post is now too long. I hope I haven’t bored you.
One final point. I clearly remember what my ranking of the films was back in the 80’s. It was Star Wars, Jedi, Empire. I always put Empire last in those days. I did not come to appreciate the genius of the story (between Lucas, Leigh Brackett, Kasdan, and Kushner, they created a masterpiece that I think is one of the best films ever made) until the 90’s. And to put the SE of the OT in the mix, all I can say is I think the changes to TESB made it better, ANH teeters at about the same (the changes to Mos Eisley bring it down, but are countered by Jabba and Biggs - something I’d always wanted to see in the movie), and ROTJ falls (it just gets worse with each new edit).
Definitely going to have to give it a look, though I have never had any complaints about the original theatrical ROTJ version.
I know a collector who owns one of the few Technicolor prints in existence. He recently had it cleaned, and they did a test screening using the cleaner’s setup. He sent me some photos made with his iphone, which although they appear to have been white balanced look absolutely gorgeous:
His print is missing the correct end credits. They have been replaced with the ones from TESB. He would very much like to get his hands on the original end credits, even if they come from a faded Eastman print, so if anybody has one for sale, please contact me?
Gorgeous. Love those colors, especially the last two.
