yotsuya

This topic probably already exists, but I’m doing the work independent of whatever may have been discussed before.

I have compared the UK GOUT to the DVD, HD Broadcast of the DVD version, and the Blu-ray many times over the past two years. This time around I have specifically compared the UK GOUT, US GOUT, and Definitive Edition LD preservation (the mystery one I have that was reverse pull-down to 23.976 fps that I have thought was TR-47). I’m working on the the sound mix to go with my GOUT upscale/color correction. I’m first creating a master GOUT track so I will have a complete audio track to fill in any gaps in the other audio mixes. The UK GOUT has to be stretched and as a result has many artifacts and distortions. So the best source for the complete audio is the US GOUT… sort of.

What I’ve found is that the US GOUT is missing some frames. Three is what I have come up with. The UK GOUT is missing 1 frame. This is compared to the DE LD. Now, my copy of that is missing even more frames, but in different places. So when I put the three together, I get 1 fame missing from the US GOUT at the and of ANH Reel 5. Nothing missing from either in TESB. 2 frames missing from pretty random places in US GOUT of ROTJ (toward the begining of reel 3 and toward the end of reel 5) and the last frame of reel 5 in the UK GOUT.

The other thing I found is that all three versions are letterboxed differently. That means the UK GOUT is not just a converted version of the US GOUT, but a completely different version. And neither of them match the DE letterboxing so the letter boxing was added. All this reinforced my decision to use the UK GOUT as the source. The other thing I have had issues with is the US GOUT was not holding steady in Sony Vegas (I am using the VOB files straight from a rip of the disc - no change in compression - so this is about as straight from the source as I can get it). I never could get TESB to align but I also never could find any missing frames. The audio held consistent.

My conclusion is in relation to GOUT syncing the various versions of the OT (LDs, 35 mm, etc). To do it right, we need to pull all the frames. Due to the first few frames of Reel 6 in ROTJ US GOUT having some signs of corruption, I had to compare that section to the HD broadcast of the DVD where I found that ideed one frame of the UK GOUT and 1 frame of the DE were missing (last frame of reel 5 and first frame of reel 6 respectively).

Considering the schedule and the planned reshoots, they did not get anywhere close to 90%. And even if they did, Disney/LFL still controls the release rights. We only see director’s cuts that the rights holders see profit in releasing. Blade Runner was one of those movies that was more than 90% done when the studio took over. We didn’t see a director’s cut for 10 years. We didn’t see the Director’s cut of Star Trek: The Motion Picture for even longer. Some we get right away, some not for years. Depends on the quality of the original and the quality of what the Director envisioned. Copyright really doesn’t recognize a Director’s right to squat. The movie belongs to the Producers.

lovelikewinter said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

lovelikewinter said:

Mary Poppins Returns

wut

Yes 54 years later they will make a sequel to a movie that really didn’t need one. They will even shove Dick Van Dyke into a cameo somewhere because. I miss the days when Disney would do a rerelease of their classics instead of remakes.

You do realize that the book has several sequels? So this is hardly a remake.

From the character description, Woody Harleson is playing a mentor character like A.C. Crispin has in her Han Solo Trilogy. She fleshed out a wonderful backstory that married nicely to the Brian Daley trilogy and the OT. I don’t expect this to be a rehash of her trilogy, but it would be nice if they pull a few things from it and keep a similar story.

MalàStrana said:

Verboten said:

Fun Fact: It was Kershner’s idea to have R2 on his tippy toes.

You mean it wasn’t in Kasdan’s script ?
You mean it was improvised ?

I really hope Kershner got fired !

It is quite normal to improvise a few things to improve on a great script, it is quite another to throw out the script in favor of complete improvisation. The only one I know of to be able to do that in a dramatic work was Robert Altman. When you try to turn a drama into a comedy improv, and the star, the screenwriter, and the producer don’t like how it is turning out and you refuse to follow the script, it is not going to end well for the director(s).

SilverWook said:

When?

When have I seen similar things happen… frequently. Someone takes a job and says they are going to do it the way you want them to and then they get into the job and start doing their own thing and ignoring what you want. Co-workers have done around me on many occasions. It has happened in Hollywood a few times as well. People get fired for that sort of behavior all the time. It just isn’t something you do. When your boss says to do it my way or take a hike, you do it their way whether you are a movie director, a grip, or working at McDonald’s.

If you put the two together it makes sense. She is force sensitive but no Jedi caliber. Someone like that might be eccentric enough to collect things related to the Jedi. A flag from Anakin’s childhood, his light saber lost (but somehow found) on Bespin. Such things are collectible items in the real world so I can see having a character acquire such thing in the Star Wars world. I don’t think Maz having these things is random. And she knows Han so she probably got him to give her all the details he knew about the Skywalkers. And when you read a fair amount of history, some things like this really do happen. So putting it in a work of fiction does not stretch credibility. If you think it does you don’t have much of an imagination.

My guess is that they started off on script and as time went on they were getting further and further from it. It finally reached a point where it was not possible for them to correct themselves and so they are gone. I’ve seen similar things happen before.

Ryan-SWI said:

Tack said:

Jesta’ said:

(J J and his anti prequel boner)

Bullshit!

You tell me how it makes sense for a second that she’d have that flag in her possession. And don’t try and justify it with some other piece of media explaining the flag’s origin. In the context of the film, it’s Anakin’s flag and nothing else. I think it’s a change that makes sense.

…You mean like trying to justify how she randomly has Anakin’s lightsaber after it fell out of a vent shaft into a gas planet some 30-odd years prior?

At least Anakin’s flag still being around is plausible.

We didn’t see what happened to the saber or Luke’s hand, only to Luke himself. Last we saw it, it was still in Cloud City, not falling toward the planet below. We don’t know what may have gotten in its way to prevent it being ejected with the rest of the trash.

I love movies. I love movies of all sorts. Books too. Books can be so much better. Can be. Often they aren’t. I have read my share of Star Wars books. I read the Thrawn trilogy and man of the other early EU books. What I’ve found is that it doesn’t matter if they win awards or not, some stories are awesome, some are terrible. I’ve encountered some terrible stories and when you compare the PT to them, the PT aren’t terrible. What I see on this site is a lot of people who don’t like the choices GL made. They see some of the flaws as fatal when in the scheme of things such flaws are pretty common in movies. Books too. The PT are not great by any means, but that does not mean that they didn’t manage to capture the magic of Star Wars for a particular generation. This site is devoted to the OOT. We tend to ignore some of the stupidness of them. It is there, just to a smaller degree. GL had plenty of help on the OT and didn’t get much on the PT. I see that as their fatal flaw. So many of the complaints could have been dealt with had he hired a good screenwriter to fix his scripts. He should have hired Carrie Fisher.

So for some of us, the OOT remains a gold standard. We are not crazy because the original 77 film is on the AFI top 100 list and has been since it was created. The PT can never equal that in pure cinematic quality, but they can end up being some people’s introduction to Star Wars and in many ways they have a similar, but unique magic, that is no less Star Wars for those who see it.

I personally think that GL was going for a 30’s vibe to the films. The art deco of the Corucsant. The truncated love story in what is basically an action movie. And I think he wanted both Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christiansen to channel James Earl Jones and his delivery. Sounds great with that booming voice. Sounds horrible coming from the others. Just listen to how David Prowse sounded deliving those same lines. Jar Jar was a mistake. Too comic and a needless accent. Though I loved Boss Nass (a slight addiction to Brian Blessed and anything he does). In the end the films failed to live up to what OT fans expected of them. As I look at them further, I see the biggest failing in AOTC. That should have been the film where we see the great bond between Obi-wan and Anakin. There is something there, but you don’t get that “good friend” vibe. I think that destroys the entire trilogy, but I think it can be fixed because most of it comes from lines that can be cut.

So I think the PT are indeed cool to one group of people. They have that right. We don’t have to agree with them, but it helps if we can step back from our own biases and see what they are talking about. I’ve watched a lot of 30’s films. Some are great, some not so much. I think GL hit his goal, but he failed to bring it up to the level of the good ones. Really it was a bad decade for films because the studios made so many B pictures and GL probably saw way too many B pictures. That is what the story of the PT feels like to me. A B picture compared to the A pictures of the OOT. Some people like those old B pictures.

I’m afraid you are incorrect. In both movies the arrows indicate the enemy ships and the direction they are traveling. The glowing square has nothing to do with the arrows and only indicates what section the target was successfully destroyed in. If you follow the arrows and compare them to the surrounding footage, you will find that everything is completely consistent with the arrows indicating enemy ships and their flight path. If you count the arrows, you will find they always match the number of ships. You missed shot in the ANH clip at 1:20 that shows three arrows, and they fly in distinct curves like the Tie fighters, not in straight lines like the blaster bolts.

There is precedent for this. This is not the first film to have multiple directors because the first one(s) got sacked. What has happened before falls into three categories. Either the one to finish it gets credit, the one who did the bulk of the work gets credit, or they all get credit. In the latter case, it is anyone’s guess who gets top billing. If they scrap pretty much everything they’ve done, I doubt they will get any credit for it.

Interesting. Much like what I was planning. You may have just saved me some work.

robertelee said:

This is actually the only thing in ESB that bothers me. There is no way a electronic item like r2 would survive the swampy beating he takes on dagobah. When he fell into the swamp, he shoulda died realistically.

With the advent of phones that are water resistant enough to take a dip and keep working, not to mention the electronic items that construction and repair crews use on a daily basis, even in wet weather, I don’t see what the problem is. R2’s sensitive electronic components are protected from the elements and the rest of him can endure all sorts of conditions. Makes complete sense.

Going from that to Ron Howard is quite a reversal. But Ron is a fantastic director. I haven’t seen all of his films, but that ones I have I have loved. The film is in good hands.

First, my take of Kennedy is that she is a very skilled producer. She has worked on many projects that have gotten good reviews, award nominations and wins, and did well at the box office. Those are three signs she knows what she is doing. And she has two Star Wars movies in that category so she definitely does know how to bake a successful Star Wars cake.

I liked 21 and 22 Jump Street. Likely what they were thinking was a Han/Lando buddy movie and they picked the right guys to do it… if these weren’t characters with 40 years of history and millions of fans. A film that does not do the characters justice will fall flatter than Jar Jar Binks with the fans. So it sounds like the directors wanted to take the characters in a different direction and Kasdan and Kennedy said no. There likely was some negotiating, or bull headedness, that didn’t end well and either they were sacked for not following instructions or they left because they couldn’t impose their vision on these characters. Either way, good riddance. I trust Kasdan and Kennedy over two comedy directors. Hopefully they were able to put some good camaraderie like the Jump Street movies had, but comedy has always had a back seat (sometimes a backseat driver almost) in the Star Wars films. Whoever comes in to finish this will be overseeing the final shooting, reshoots, and editing, so hopefully they can reverse and potential damage and give us a faithful early outing for our favorite smuggler and wookie.

adywan said:

Frank Machin said:

i can see why Ady avoids most of you losers like the plague…goodbye

I’m avoiding most people here? Bloody news to me.

Well, since you popped in… any progress? Are we going to se TESB Revisited anytime soon? In HD?

This first section is not the best test section. It has some very radical color variations that the rest of the film doesn’t have. The section I always look at to check colors is when Palpatine lands on Naboo and Nute Gunray is taken away. Lots of colors all over and some good sunlit skin and Palpatine’s costume.

Gray is a difficult color on film. Not only can gray have its own tint, but it can take on tints from lights and in the color timing process. In color correcting I’ve found the grays are the hardest thing to get right.

Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

yotsuya said:

LHSmarchingredcoat said:

Here’s basically the first 8 minutes using this look. This weekend I’ll look at the photos and see if i can match to that.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-3yEI3sJQlBTFlFTmJCVjl0V2s/view?usp=sharing

Very nice, but the colors are too yellow and too bright. At 21:01 to 21:11 there are two shots that will get blown out if you have things too bright. And you have to watch the reds and turquoise colors to be sure they don’t turn out too orange or too green. Palpatine’s costume is a mix of green, turquoise, and blue with the collar being blue. If it looks green or turquoise, there is too much yellow. And Queen Amidala’s red outfit here in the beginning is very red without much yellow. It felt like it was leaning too far in the orange direction.

Contrast also needs some tinkering. Qui-Gon’s cloak looks black in many shots even though it’s obviously brown. The clip is 360p so it’s hard to tell but looks like it has crushed blacks…

Yes, basically too much contrast… what you get when film gets copied too many times.

LHSmarchingredcoat said:

Here’s basically the first 8 minutes using this look. This weekend I’ll look at the photos and see if i can match to that.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-3yEI3sJQlBTFlFTmJCVjl0V2s/view?usp=sharing

Very nice, but the colors are too yellow and too bright. At 21:01 to 21:11 there are two shots that will get blown out if you have things too bright. And you have to watch the reds and turquoise colors to be sure they don’t turn out too orange or too green. Palpatine’s costume is a mix of green, turquoise, and blue with the collar being blue. If it looks green or turquoise, there is too much yellow. And Queen Amidala’s red outfit here in the beginning is very red without much yellow. It felt like it was leaning too far in the orange direction.

^…^ said:

Dre, awesome job!

Idea: it’s possible to regrade a whole film using just a trailer for reference, right?

I’d like to know the answer to this one as well.

I confirmed that the body is unchanged. They made the shape of it change by warping the image, but the details of the costume and the background seen through the costume line up 100%. So they just beheaded Sebastian and gave him Hayden’s head.

Star Wars also had a 3 strip color separation. They found in 1994 that it had never been used to strike a clean negative and it had suffered form shrinkage. Now, back in 1994, that meant that it was useless, but today, that means that it could be used to digitally restore the original 1977 negative (original color timing, original scenes, all in original negative resolution because the 3 strip is 3 B&W strips that do not fade and have higher film grain resolution than color film). That would be the item I would want to get a hold of to start a restoration.

ANH - the rock in front of R2 (2011 br)
TESB - restore “It’s a good thing you don’t taste good” (1997 SE)
ROTJ - the oversided door to Jabba’s palace (2011 br)