Sign In

yotsuya

User Group
Members
Join date
2-Dec-2008
Last activity
30-Sep-2022
Posts
1,918

Post History

Post
#1476329
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

theprequelsrule said:

Channel72 said:

In retrospect, the biggest problem with the Prequels is they’re told in a way that often ignores their own premise. In theory, the most interesting thing about the Prequel story template should be Anakin and the circumstances behind Alec Guinness’ wistful recollections to Luke in ANH. This is a classic “good guy turns bad” story. The problem is that this type of story is very difficult to write convincingly. This type of story was done in the Godfather Part I and also Breaking Bad - but the latter had 6 seasons of television to pull it off, and the Godfather involved a much less extreme transition from good to bad than is required for Anakin, who has to go from Obi-Wan’s good friend to a mass murdering tyrant in only 3 movies.

This is just a REALLY hard story to write convincingly in only 3 movies. It requires a lot of upfront planning of story structure. Yet bizarrely, it seems that Lucas wasn’t even primarily interested in Anakin’s story and the obvious drama that could be mined from it. Instead he wrote Episode 1, which was a meandering side-story that introduced us to the world of the Prequels, but barely connected with the other movies. It seems clear that Lucas didn’t see the “Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker” as the primary reason for writing the Prequels. Rather, Lucas saw the Prequels as more like a general backstory to the OT that showed how the Republic turned into a dictatorship and the Jedi order was destroyed. That could certainly be interesting as a political/military drama if done correctly, but Star Wars movies are generally simple character driven stories. It seems by the time Revenge of the Sith came around, Lucas suddenly realized this saga was supposed to be more about Anakin and less about Palpatine’s crazy schemes to get elected or mysterious clone conspiracies. But by that time, it was virtually impossible to make up for lost time and write a compelling arc for Anakin in only one movie.

Most of all, it’s eternally baffling to me that so much of the Prequels are framed around MYSTERY plots. Episode 1 is about a mysterious hooded figure who operates in the shadows. Episode 2 is a detective story about a conspiracy involving a mysterious clone army created decades ago for unknown reasons. But none of these mysteries are ever really explicitly resolved because ultimately they’re superfluous to the story. More importantly, why would anyone frame a PREQUEL around mystery plots, when we all know how everything turns out? We know the mysterious hooded guy is the Emperor and that all the Jedi die, so why pretend the story is some kind of deep, compelling mystery or political conspiracy thriller? The only reason the Prequels really should exist is because the story of Anakin and his mentor/friend Obi-Wan had the potential to be an amazing character-driven drama and fantasy/sci-fi adventure story.

Very good points, ones I never thought of specifically before. A much better script for all 3 prequels is needed to tell both the fall on The Republic and the fall of Anakin Skywalker simultaneously.

I really thought the whole plot where Palpatine is basically running both the Separatists and The Republic really strained credibility. At least have the reveal that Dooku was a Sith take place in ROTS - make the audience think he is truly a rogue Jedi fighting against a hopelessly corrupt Republic and that The Separatists were actually the good guys.

Also; remember how evil Tarkin and company were in SW77 when they are all sitting around the conference table on the Death Star? Now remember the similar scene on Geonosis, with all those weird comical looking aliens? Creates a completely different feel. The Separatists seemed like a joke.

I find myself sympathizing with Stardust1138 because I often lack tact in my strong opinions.

But he does have some ideas that bear looking at. If you miss some of the things that George included in the prequels (especially if that led to not liking them and not wanting to watch them again) then your hate of one or more of the prequels might be based on not having really understood the story. There are things I didn’t catch right away (at least not consciously) that have added to my understanding of the story. I’m also not content with just the films, but in learning more about the backstory behind the story. For the prequels there is a lot in the OT, but there is more in other places. George’s original vision of the Emperor was that he was a puppet (ANH novelization). He took that and the powerful Sith lord he created for ROTJ and merged them into the same character by making him duplicitous. So you have the public face of Palpatine. He’s is a nice guy, friendly, amicable. He seems genuinely concerned. A bit of a pushover really. But then you have the real power - the Sith Lord. He is using the force to manipulate votes and get his way. He uses the Trade Federation blockade of Naboo to become Chancellor. He lays the plan for the Clone Wars by picking the source for the clones and having order 66 instilled in them. He plays the victim when he is disfigured. It is a brilliant political move. And it is the reason the separtists are a joke. He intends them to fail. He wants to destabilize the Republic and seize power for himself. He made an enemy of the Trade Federation and this seems in part revenge.

And then there is Anakin’s fall. Something I didn’t consciously catch until recently is that Palpatine uses the force on Anakin to bend him to his will. Anakin was susceptible after he stopped Mace Windu and you can hear the special effect in Palpatine’s voice when he gives Anakin instructions to take then Jedi Temple.

It is all about what you noticed and how that impacted your opinion of the films. I had a bad first viewing of TFA and I don’t think I will ever truly like that film because of it. So really get that once your opinion is formed it is hard to change. But hey, this is Star Wars. Isn’t it worth digging deeper and seeing if you missed something that might change your mind and giving each film at least a second chance? I think it is. I keep giving AOTC and TFA more chances. Basically without an edit both of them are doomed as far as I’m concerned. But the rest of them can stand in their theatrical forms and I can appreciate them.

The other big thing that I think colors our opinions of films is expectations. If you expect too much or something too different from what we got, that can ruin a film. I try to avoid having any story expectations. I still get them. I felt sure that Rey was a real Skywalker after TFA. Or a Kenobi at least. The whole nobody and then Palpatine could have thrown me but I didn’t go into the film expecting that. I went in and let the story flow. I was totally unsurprised that Han died in TFA or that Luke died in TLJ. From how Lucas and Hamill talked, I knew Luke was going to die to pass the torch. I expected that Harrison would want Han to die. He got one of the most awesome death scenes as far as I’m concerned. The look, touching Kylo’s cheeck, everything was so perfect.

But we can’t all of us have the same opinion. Just remember how divided the fans were over TESB and ROTJ. We have some members here who all these decades later still don’t like TESB or ROTJ. And I bet there are many who would like to change their minds - for them to give it another chance. If they only saw it this other way. Well, that obviously is not happening at this stage. I think every Star Wars film deserves a second chance, but if your issue isn’t going to go away, then that might not do it. Though there have been some that have given these films a second chance and have revised their opinion of them.

So some opinions are never going to change. They are set and some of us don’t understand it, but there is nothing to do about it. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and tastes. It doesn’t mean the rest of us are wrong, we just aren’t on the same page. But likely there are a few films we do agree on.

Post
#1476051
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

What I’ve been able to uncover about what George’s treatment for VII was going to be about was very similar to what we got. Even before Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney, Luke was pushed out of VII and into VIII. VII was going to be about finding Luke. I think it would have been better if we hadn’t seen him and the end of VII was more like the end of TESB with Rey and Chewie going off to find Luke and then a gap between the two films. But Rian Johnson really nailed the opening of TLJ with out Abrams left TFA. Really all 3 films have an epilogue (Rey finding Luke, the broom boy, and Rey burying Luke and Leia’s sabers). I think TFA is the weakest one. It sets up the story and most of the flaws consistently pointed out in the other two films stem from what Abrams setup in TFA. I don’t agree that they are necessarily flaws, but I feel that Abrams set them up. Some of them Lucas setup. Lucas had the girl as the Jedi in training. Lucas had Luke in exile. I love what Rian Johnson did with Luke because given what Abrams established in TFA, Johnson mined ANH and TESB for qualities and traits that Luke had the might resurface in the face of a tragedy that would make him go into self-exile.

I’ve studied how movies develop, particular the Star Wars movies, and what I see in Lucas’s original ideas and the pre-Abrams draft of IX are a basis for how the films developed and mutated into what we go. TESB and ROTJ went through similar mutations. I think Abrams played it too safe with TFA and make some bad story telling choices. I think if he would have been more daring like he was with TROS that it would have been a better film.

Post
#1476047
Topic
Re-evaluating Revenge of the Sith
Time

Funny to read this. I consider ROTS to be considerably lesser than the OT. I just can’t put my finger on it. I think that the script just wasn’t polished enough. Lucas didn’t have any help on this film and I think it shows. He needed script help to make a good film. Someone to edit his work and curb his worst ideas. I definitely don’t consider ROTS to be a masterpiece. The best of the PT for me is TPM because I think it captured the right mood. I feel the script is polished. I know some people don’t like Jar Jar or some other characters, but those things have never bothered me.

Post
#1476044
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

I felt The Phantom Menace felt like Star Wars but set in the Old Republic. I love Qui-gon. I do not hate Jar Jar. Jake Lloyd was not bad as Anakin. After spending time with 9 and 10 year olds recently, some of them sound like that. And I also saw something he did right before he played Anakin. I have nothing to hate about this movie. I love it. The theatrical version anyway. I do not like the DVD cut. I do prefer CG Yoda over the puppet. That was one horrible puppet. And the CG makes it fit better with the following two films.

Attack of the Clones is mostly good, but it has some terrible stuff in it. The droid factory sequence is probably the worst in all of Star Wars. Comic relief is one thing, but that was over the top and totally ridiculous. And the way Anakin acts does not fit with his character. Not Hayden’s acting, but the way the part is written. That argument in front of Padme is out of place and the way he acts when Padme falls out doesn’t fit. He’s attached to her and madly in love with her, but he isn’t a total idiot.

Return of the Sith is mostly great. It is dark, but the story doesn’t play out quite as expected (based on the other 5 films that came out before it). There isn’t anything I can put my finger on, just a feeling that something is off.

Overall the Prequels setup the story nicely for the OT. They aren’t as good, but prequels rarely are. I really feel that Lucas spent time on TPM and did it right, but rushed the other two and didn’t have a good partner to make sure the script was top notch before filming them. He had too many people who weren’t critical enough of his work and the films suffer for it. AOTS in obvious ways and ROTS in more subtle ways.

Post
#1475271
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

thebluefrog said:

A major problem with all 3 movies was Rey’s constant winning and Kylo’s constant losing.

A hero and their journey is only as good as the villain and their antagonism.

Imagine if Obi-Wan had WON the very first lightsaber duel back in 1977.

That would’ve killed Vader’s character from the start.

Kylo’s loss at the end of TFA was the first crack. Then losing against Rey again in Snoke’s room. And then being humiliated by Luke. And then losing again to Rey again 1/2 of the way through Rise. Also, her ability to beat Luke while training didn’t help any character progression either.

Rey had no consistent hero’s journey. Yes, yes, you can make all sorts of arguments about scene x or development y, they’ve been done before–the point is that the growth of the heroic character overcoming obstacles isn’t coherent. Since Kylo was neutered as a threat midway through TLJ, they had to use Palpatine to give her a new challenge, which didn’t thematically fit at all from her starting point.

One theme is Star Wars is redemption. We see Anakin return to the light so Ben returning to the light fits very well. And Kylo didn’t really lose in TFA. Chewy shot him and he was fighting injured and the ground split open before their duel was finished. And he didn’t really lose in TLJ, the saber broke and he didn’t want the pieces and left Rey to fend for herself. And he filled Rey with doubts about her identity. Luke’s journey was defined by doubts about his ability. Rey’s journey was defined by doubts about her identity. Bringing back Palpatine was brilliant in terms of her identity crisis, echoing Legends, echoing the Flash Gordon serial origins of Star Wars, and is mythic

Post
#1475012
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Those who don’t like these films find ways to explain why they don’t like them. That some don’t like them because they are too different and others don’t like them because they are too similar shows that both views are in they eye of the viewer. Apply the same critiques to the PT and you will get the same result. They are either too similar or too different. TPM, ANH, and TFA all have similar beats and echo each other. In each one a young person with no direction finds a mentor and before the mentor can impart very much, they die. In each one there is a space battle where the hero plays a decisive part (in TFA Rey helps plant the explosives that opens the whole for the destruciton of Starkiller base where in the other two Anakin and Luke are the fighter pilot who fires the shot that destroys the base). The hero meets the other two in the trio that carries through the trilogy. TPM doesn’t have any plans or map as a McGiffin. And I could go on, but why? I think I made my point.

Post
#1474602
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Buzz Lightyear said:

I enjoyed it. Not as much as the Mandalorian, but that’s okay. It was still a good time and a nice little bridge between Mando season 2 and 3.

People really need to stop projecting so many expectations onto Star Wars. Actually modern fandoms need to do that in general, I swear there’s not a single fandom
nowadays where the fanbase collectively enjoys more than 1% of its content.

Life is more fun if you learn to just sit back and enjoy the ride, instead of picking everything apart and fixating on how you’d have personally handled various details.

^^^^^
This!

Post
#1472433
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

Luke’s sacrifice in Last Jedi is beautiful as is his letting go of his fear. The scene where he fades into the force facing a rising sun is palpable.

And its all undone in Rise of Skywalker by bringing him back to lift the X-wing in an unnecessary scene.

Rey already had the training she needed watching Luke fail according to Last Jedi, but all of a sudden we need Leia to train her. Leia suddenly a Jedi Master who never was even a Jedi Knight.

These movies don’t work in sequence.

You mean like Ben’s sacrifice in ANH was undone by him coming back in TESB and ROTJ to tell Luke things Yoda could have told him? Luke coming back as a force ghost was pretty expected and in keeping with the past. In TROS we see the Jedi Master that could have been and he is great. And I don’t see what is wrong with Leia having been trained and being able to train Rey. It answers that lingering question from ROTJ about why Luke wouldn’t have trained her. He did, but she had a vision that it was not her time.

And Leia is the one who brought Ben Solo back to the light, not Rey. Rey stabbed him and gave Leia the opening and Leia did the rest, like his vision of his father.

Post
#1472351
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Stardust1138 said:

yotsuya said:

fmalover said:

Stardust1138 said:

I don’t think fans really wanted another Luke, Leia, and Han trilogy per say. I know for me I just wanted something that respected them as characters and felt like a natural progression to where we last saw them. Instead it feels like a regression.

Luke - He ended Return of the Jedi as the last Jedi. In the Sequel Trilogy he ends his story arc no different from where he was during the end of the previous trilogy. The only difference is he’s now broken and depressed as he failed. I didn’t need Luke to be Superman but I do feel seeing him pass on what he knew to the next generation as foreshadowed by his talk with Yoda was an essential part of his character development that felt promised to be told. He could fail at first to convey a Fisher King like narrative but instead he fails and everything is given to Rey because the plot says so and not because she earned it. Luke could definitely fail at first after following the teachings of the Jedi that came before but it’s poorly written and conveyed.

Leia - She’s in the same position she was at the start of A New Hope. She’s leading the Rebel Alliance then and now she’s leading the Resistance. Her growth to becoming a senator and even Supreme Chancellor is squandered. She fails at being a mother.

Han - He’s back to smuggling and where he was at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. He doesn’t continue to grow and become a respected figure in the Republic as his arc in Return of the Jedi implied when he became a general in the Rebel Alliance. Instead he’s back to smuggling, failed as a father, and loss the Millennium Falcon for reasons. Everything he overcame is thrown out the window.

All of these issues stem from The Force Awakens decision to be a soft reboot. The characters are mostly delightful and fun but the problem is the story they’re going through has no sense of consequence or baring on what comes afterwards. Hardly anything in the film has an emotional payoff or point in viewing things retrospectively. It’s there just to look like Star Wars but it doesn’t actually feel like Star Wars as it serves no purpose in the grand scheme of things.

I was ready to explore a new generation of characters with the trio serving as mentors. I wanted to see the children of Han and Leia and if in the cards Luke. I knew though George wasn’t so keen on the Expanded Universe in part because he didn’t see Luke as having children. So Luke having a kid may not have been likely but he could have served as a surrogate type parent. Instead we’re following characters they’ve never met or don’t have a connection to them directly or indirectly. The Skywalker saga is about generations of the same family and suddenly not following them in favour of a “Nobody” then Palpatine just feels very anticlimactic.

You don’t need your heroes to become regressed failures to convey a good story to prop up a new generation.

This makes the white-hot outrage over Luke’s characterisation in TLJ even more laughable.

At the end of RotJ, Han and Leia are respected leaders and heroes to the New Republic. Fast forward to TFA and Han is back to being the scoundrel smuggler we were introduced to in the first movie, and Leia is back to being a Rebel leader, and thus we have two characters who made a 360° turn.

It’s strange how Abrams hasn’t received any backlash for this deliberate regression, but Rian Johnson gets all the blame for ruining Luke Skywalker.

Well, it wasn’t even Abrams who did that setup, it was George.

And I disagree that Leia is in the same place. Before she was trying to bring down the Empire and now she is trying to save the New Republic from the First Order. She is fighting the entire time to preserve what she had achieved. While some argue the wording of the opening crawls implies that the First Order had won, the fleet we see in the end of TROS shows that they had not yet won, just intimidated the various system governments.

Han was going to die in George’s version anyway (so was Luke for that matter). Abrams at least gave us a glorious scene for him to exit on. And it is far from pointless. Johnson has that event derail Kylo and it ultimately leads to his return to the light in TROS. So it is a pivotal scene for the characters. And face it, most of us wanted to see the Rogue Han Solo over a respectable Han Solo. It was a good character choice in many ways.

And ultimately when you come down to the myths and legends that Star Wars is built on, everything about the former heroes not still being on top of things falls perfectly in line. Han went back to what was comfortable, Leia is protecting the Republic like she fought the Empire, the fall of Kylo Ren and the destruction of his school has ripped off the veneer of mastery that Luke had put on to reveal the flaws in his character. Luke more than the others has become a different mythic figure. Not the wise old man waiting for the hero, but the disillusioned hero not ready to help the hero.

It was J.J. though. In Return of the Jedi it’s naturally implied as part of the story and the films before it that the part of destroying the Galactic Empire is over and that re-establishing will be the next step as there’s a power vacuum created by the Empire being defeated but also the Hutts as well. That will be a tricky situation to get under control if someone tries to exploit it. There’s no set up for the Empire to rise again except possibly the fleet we see at the Battle of Endor that seems to have escaped but even then that doesn’t explain how they’d become the First Order and have the funds to build a bigger Death Star and have a huge fleet. It might be in a novel but you shouldn’t have to need supplement material for what should be in the movie to explain essential story.

It’s too late. As Holdo says, "We are the spark that that’ll light the fire, that will restore the Republic. The spark is that the Resistance must survive. This is our mission.”. The New Republic is gone. It was destroyed by Starkiller Base as the people who show up at the end of The Rise of Skywalker are ordinary people who’ve had enough of the First Order and possibly Final Order. It’s never said they’re part of system governments but people.

They were both going to die in George’s Sequel Trilogy but we only know how with Luke. It was going to be in Episode IX after he restored the Jedi Order. It’s difficult to say how Han would have died but Harrison Ford said it would’ve happened in Episode VII like we got during the lead up to The Force Awakens. I’d say it’s still pointless with Kylo/Ben in the end as you have to take in account Leia too. She sensed the death of him if she continued her Jedi training. He still died. His parents both died for nothing. He was redeemed and saved Rey but that’s it. No Skywalker lived on to continue the legacy. Instead Rey is the last one standing but she’s a Palpatine and the Republic must be established again as it was destroyed. It’s more or less the same story position as Return of the Jedi. How is everyone going to react when they find out Rey is related to Palpatine? Will it be like in the books when Leia nearly loss everything when it was revealed she was Darth Vader’s daughter? It creates so many unnecessary problems and complications. It may have been fun to see Han rogue at first but it’s regressing his character and not letting him grow up as he did across the entire Original Trilogy. He went from selfish and self centred to one of the Rebel Alliance’s most loyal members and very selfless towards Leia and his friends. It’s only natural to expect him to continue to grow. They could’ve still played with Han’s smuggler backstory under the power vacuum scenario since it’s all about crime syndicates in George’s story for example trying to overtake the Republic but not at the expense of his personal growth.

It’s all about the execution of said ideas. Why does Han need to go back to the only thing he’s good at? Is he not allowed to rise above what he worked very hard to overcome with the help of others? The Republic is gone. They’re trying to restore it just as the Rebel Alliance was trying to do. Leia is doing the same thing she was thirty years ago. She’s still fighting an Empire in so many words. With Luke though George also had him as broken but he overcame it and in the end restored the Jedi Order. It’s all about execution and respecting character growth. Instead we got a failure who passed on the mantle to Rey because the plot says she must be the last Jedi now. It doesn’t ever show us why she’s earned the right to it. It’s just given to her as the plot says she’s the protagonist like with the lightsaber, the Millennium Falcon, Luke’s X-Wing, and even Leia’s training. Leia will train a Palpatine but not her own son? Star Wars was an ecological value system before and the collective whole. It was not not just one individual collecting everything and being the only hero. Even with Anakin being the Chosen One he still needed help from Luke. Just as Han needed help with overcoming his smuggling past. Just as Leia needed help to get off the Death Star. Just as Luke needed help destroying the Death Star. It was a value system of the collective whole of people helping people.

These things just don’t sit right with me. It needs to be clear within the narrative what is going on. You shouldn’t need to read or look up supplement material to understand the story the films are trying to convey. There’s only one rare instance I find in George’s story where you may need supplement material to understand something and that’s the mystery of Sifo-Dyas. However it’s something he planned to explain in his Sequels as he was the secret apprentice of Palpatine. So it would’ve been addressed eventually and supplement material wouldn’t be needed for it.

Ulimately on my part I’m glad you enjoy the the Sequels. I genuinely wish I could see the things you see. They are pretty fun on their own merits in some ways and have some Star Wars like qualities but ulimately I find they’re lacking in consistency that makes sense within the context of the first six films.

On the state of the Republic I have to disagree with you. The Hosnian system was destroyed. The capital is gone, but the member worlds remain and have not been conquered. They are never seen to be conquered. There has been no passage of time form TFA to TLJ for them to be conquered. Some may have surrendered, but even that is not mentioned. You have the First Order Fleet trying to control things AND trying to chase down the resistance. There is no indication in the films that the First Order is actually running anything except a fear campaign, which is working and which is why none of Leia’s contacts provide any help. Looking at their actions logically, the resistance is too small to be effective or be worth saving and they everything they to protect themselves. The First Order splintered the Republic, but has not taken over. The trilogy is about saving the New Republic. It is not about starting over, but about saving what was already created. So Leia’s legacy has not been destroyed, just taken a severe hit.

And that is also why Han falls back to his old ways. Their son has fallen to the Dark Side and his wife is running the resistance in the outer rim. And if her name is tainted by the revelation of her father, where does that leave him? His return to smuggling is logical and makes sense.

Luke suffered the most when Ben turned to Kylo. His entire school was destroyed (not just the building, but the students). By his nephew no less. So his jaded attitude stems from guilt over a member of his family falling to the dark side just like his father had. And by this point he has studied the records of the TPM era Jedi and come to the same conclusion that I have that the Jedi were responsible for Anakin’s fall because they gave him no tools to wrestle with the temptations of the dark side. In the PT Anakin is just told to avoid any temptation. But he is never told what to do if there is temptation. He has fear in TPM. What is he supposed to do with that. And Luke meets the same fate as Obi-wan - losing a trusted student to the Dark Side. Anakin destroyed the temple on Coruscant and Ben destroyed the new temple. Obi-wan and Yoda went into hiding and Luke goes into hiding. He wallows in self-pity as Luke tends to do. Too much is made of his rise to the occasion in ROTJ without recognizing that he is the same person he always was with the same flaws. Just because he overcomes them at that point does not mean they can’t come back later. So we are presented with the cause of why he reverted. It is a human and believable story and very true to character. In TLJ Luke is probably the most realistic and human his character has ever been.

So all of these characters were handled very well in my opinion. Very true to OT form and very logical from the fall of the only Skywalker of the new generation. Everything that has gone wrong prior to TFA stems from Ben Solo becoming Kylo Ren and does so in a way that rings true to their humanity and rings true to how old heroes are portrayed in myths and legends.

Post
#1472284
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

fmalover said:

Stardust1138 said:

I don’t think fans really wanted another Luke, Leia, and Han trilogy per say. I know for me I just wanted something that respected them as characters and felt like a natural progression to where we last saw them. Instead it feels like a regression.

Luke - He ended Return of the Jedi as the last Jedi. In the Sequel Trilogy he ends his story arc no different from where he was during the end of the previous trilogy. The only difference is he’s now broken and depressed as he failed. I didn’t need Luke to be Superman but I do feel seeing him pass on what he knew to the next generation as foreshadowed by his talk with Yoda was an essential part of his character development that felt promised to be told. He could fail at first to convey a Fisher King like narrative but instead he fails and everything is given to Rey because the plot says so and not because she earned it. Luke could definitely fail at first after following the teachings of the Jedi that came before but it’s poorly written and conveyed.

Leia - She’s in the same position she was at the start of A New Hope. She’s leading the Rebel Alliance then and now she’s leading the Resistance. Her growth to becoming a senator and even Supreme Chancellor is squandered. She fails at being a mother.

Han - He’s back to smuggling and where he was at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. He doesn’t continue to grow and become a respected figure in the Republic as his arc in Return of the Jedi implied when he became a general in the Rebel Alliance. Instead he’s back to smuggling, failed as a father, and loss the Millennium Falcon for reasons. Everything he overcame is thrown out the window.

All of these issues stem from The Force Awakens decision to be a soft reboot. The characters are mostly delightful and fun but the problem is the story they’re going through has no sense of consequence or baring on what comes afterwards. Hardly anything in the film has an emotional payoff or point in viewing things retrospectively. It’s there just to look like Star Wars but it doesn’t actually feel like Star Wars as it serves no purpose in the grand scheme of things.

I was ready to explore a new generation of characters with the trio serving as mentors. I wanted to see the children of Han and Leia and if in the cards Luke. I knew though George wasn’t so keen on the Expanded Universe in part because he didn’t see Luke as having children. So Luke having a kid may not have been likely but he could have served as a surrogate type parent. Instead we’re following characters they’ve never met or don’t have a connection to them directly or indirectly. The Skywalker saga is about generations of the same family and suddenly not following them in favour of a “Nobody” then Palpatine just feels very anticlimactic.

You don’t need your heroes to become regressed failures to convey a good story to prop up a new generation.

This makes the white-hot outrage over Luke’s characterisation in TLJ even more laughable.

At the end of RotJ, Han and Leia are respected leaders and heroes to the New Republic. Fast forward to TFA and Han is back to being the scoundrel smuggler we were introduced to in the first movie, and Leia is back to being a Rebel leader, and thus we have two characters who made a 360° turn.

It’s strange how Abrams hasn’t received any backlash for this deliberate regression, but Rian Johnson gets all the blame for ruining Luke Skywalker.

Well, it wasn’t even Abrams who did that setup, it was George.

And I disagree that Leia is in the same place. Before she was trying to bring down the Empire and now she is trying to save the New Republic from the First Order. She is fighting the entire time to preserve what she had achieved. While some argue the wording of the opening crawls implies that the First Order had won, the fleet we see in the end of TROS shows that they had not yet won, just intimidated the various system governments.

Han was going to die in George’s version anyway (so was Luke for that matter). Abrams at least gave us a glorious scene for him to exit on. And it is far from pointless. Johnson has that event derail Kylo and it ultimately leads to his return to the light in TROS. So it is a pivotal scene for the characters. And face it, most of us wanted to see the Rogue Han Solo over a respectable Han Solo. It was a good character choice in many ways.

And ultimately when you come down to the myths and legends that Star Wars is built on, everything about the former heroes not still being on top of things falls perfectly in line. Han went back to what was comfortable, Leia is protecting the Republic like she fought the Empire, the fall of Kylo Ren and the destruction of his school has ripped off the veneer of mastery that Luke had put on to reveal the flaws in his character. Luke more than the others has become a different mythic figure. Not the wise old man waiting for the hero, but the disillusioned hero not ready to help the hero.

Post
#1472015
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Hal 9000 said:

TFA had the easier job of setting up the story of the ST, and made what I consider a bad call in recreating the plot mechanics of the original film(s) of rebels vs empire. It deliberately chose not to build on the story as it had developed so far but to regress and recreate. I’m not interested in blaming specific people, so I personify the film when doing so because I don’t know if these decisions were mandated from on high or JJ’s own insistence. TFA works pretty good at executing this unfortunate decision and introduces a colorful cast of characters in a fun ride. You’re all right with the lack of a solid ending because you understand it’s part one of three. TFA bears its own flaws well enough, but leeches somewhat on what would follow and cannot stand on its own.

TLJ actually has some kind of a central idea, that idea is just kind of sophomoric. TLJ smells the above about its predecessor and wants to correct it before it’s too late. It does so respectfully, taking the events and story so far seriously even as it changes our view of them. It’s a critique of TFA and a dare for IX to be great.

IX failed that dare altogether. TLJ said, “I dare you to do better” without knowing it would be the TFA crew the message would be sent to. TROS was written on the bus to school and the administrators weren’t willing to give it more time. So, we got a bullshit story of “nuh-uh, Snoke didn’t really die, he was just Palpatine all along.” TROS is that kid who stubbornly insists he is winning a playground game and is the worst at turn-based storytelling games. I don’t have many good things to say about TROS. It doesn’t seem to say much of anything, at least when you exclude things the OT already said. There’s no new light cast on anything and nothing to go home thinking about that ROTJ didn’t do much better. It’s a shame for the entire Star Wars saga to end on such a note. I laughed through my first viewing because otherwise I’d just feel embarrassed and sad. It’s enough to hope for a 10-12 trilogy someday just to have another chance at doing what 7-9 ought to have done. Just down the road enough for the chance that enough turnover would let it be fresh.

I think your take on TROS is partly right, but I don’t think you are seeing it in the right way. The ending for ROTJ was epic. That is truly the huge ending in the saga. Even in Lucas’s original ideas, he had nothing truly planned beyond bringing the OT cast back to hand off the baton to a new generation. That lack of deep planning shows. But it also works for the story. In the OT the rebellion was fighting the fully formed and powerful empire. In the ST they are trying to save what is left of the New Republic from the reminants of the Empire. In some ways this was done to better effect in book form with Timothy Zahn’s trilogy. But in some ways that wasn’t as epic a story from the POV of the Skywalker/Jedi story. The ST proposes that something survived ROTJ and is rebuilding and the heroes must stop this rise of a new Empire before it is too late. That is complicated by an early strike on the fledgling new Jedi order that has sent Luke into hiding (George came up with that one). The promise of a new Jedi order from ROTJ is unfulfilled. So the ST trilogy must save the republic, stop the Empire from winning again, and start the Jedi again.

It does this by finally addressing an element from the PT that the PT Jedi teachings were flawed. Lucas set this up very nicely. To avoid the Dark Side a Jedi isn’t to just avoid the dark side, they are to avoid attachments which can lead to fear, anger, and then hate. So the Jedi in the PT aren’t teaching their Padawans how to avoid the Dark Side pitfalls, they are teaching them to avoid any hint of any path that strays even close. This is why Anakin fell. The ST has Luke come to this realization and be wallowing is dispair on how to proceed. He wants to restore the Jedi Order but he made the same mistakes. The Jedi need to be reborn in a new way. This fits with Lucas’s idea of the ST passing on he baton. Too many fans wanted a new Luke, Han, Leia trilogy when that was never what we were going to get. Luke, Han and Leia are supporting characters in the ST. They always were going to be. Hamill and Lucas both mentioned Hamill having the Kenobi role in the ST and when Qui-gon died in the PT, I expected that Luke would die in the ST. The is the way of mythic stories, the old generation passed so the new can take over.

And I feel TROS epicly rounds out the saga by bringing back Palpatine as a clone. And his return is like the rest of the ST. He has not risen to full power yet and must be stopped before it is too late. Rather than resetting the OT, the ST has reset to a point in ROTS where the old Republic could still have been saved. I find the ST a nice mix of the PT and OT. I also find it has fewer flaws than the PT. Lucas’s story telling is far too subtle in the PT. It is great if you like uncovering the layers, but far too many didn’t want to bother and the clear story has far too many holes in it. Too many mysteries unsolved. The ST returned to the OT’s more blunt story telling while having a few mysteries. Abrams crafted TFA with far too many for a trilogy. And wisely TLJ shuts a few of them down. TROS doesn’t really course correct as much as some people think. The ST was setup, not to be a restart of ANH, but to put the galaxy in the position that this time we need to stop them BEFORE this new enemy, a remnant of the old Empire, takes over again. The First Order is never the entrenched evil empire in the ST, only the rising danger. Leia’s resistance is positioned to block them. And they know it because they go after them. Even in TROS after a year they still haven’t solidified any hold on the Galaxy and victory is still possible for the resistance.

I think there is too much emphasis on the flaws of the ST without looking at how it succeeds. TFA is full of flaws forcing TLJ to cut a couple off and TROS has to tie up everything. And if you look carefully, the entire ST follows Palpatine’s vacillating. Palpatine doesn’t care if Kylo Ren or Rey wins, he just wants to possess the winner. The ST also bounced back and forth. First Kylo Ren is set on proving that Rey is nothing and no one, before he finds out she really is someone. Reversals are a staple of story telling. Think of LOTR. Who destroys the ring? It isn’t Frodo or Sam, it is Gollum. Star Wars is based on myths and in those ancient myths, things don’t always play out like you think. I think the ST does an imperfect but good job of using that mythic structure. It has a solid core, but if you don’t look beyond the surface, you won’t see it. Very like the PT and Lucas’s too subtle concepts.

Post
#1471941
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

screams in the void said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I guess i was expecting more swashbuckling action Anakin following Obi Wan on a damn fool idealistic crusade.

Yoda being Obi Wan’s teacher, Leia’s mom dying on Alderaan when Leia was like 5 years old or something. Owen Lars being Obi Wan’s brother.

Luke’s father being a good friend and a great pilot. And i mean in the films not having to go to other media to get that characterization, like the Clone Wars.

Showing the actual clone war on screen, the purge of the Jedi by Vader. All the things hinted at during the filming of the OT.

^ yup , and I will add , Anakin telling Obi Wan that he wanted Luke to have his Lightsaber when he was old enough , Anakin falling into a molten pit while dueling Kenobi being an accident, rather than getting his arm and legs chopped off by him in self defense after which he stands there and leaves him burning to death , the Clone Wars being plural and happening on screen and not just the start and the end of them , with the rest being filled in by a cartoon . These were the things that stirred the imaginations of my friends and myself in the 80s while playing out the scenarios with our action figures in the sandbox and talking about them .

And this is exactly why so many were disappointed with the PT Lucas made. Pre-formed expectations. The only thing I had ever imagined was the faux treatment, Fall of the Republic. Oddly, it has a lot of echoes to both ROTS and TROS (predating both by many years).

Post
#1471832
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong>? - a general discussion thread
Time

Unlike a lot of people, I was very disappointed in TFA. It had two great points. Great character introductions and some really great scenes, but there really wasn’t much of a story there. People compare it to the 1977 original, but the original was a self contained story with a solid end. TFA felt incomplete and open ended. Especially when the tacked on Rey meeting Luke to the end. So I don’t consider it an echo of ANH in the slightest. It failed some basic film making tasks and for me it is the worst of the saga films.

I think the trilogy redeemed itself with TLJ and rose to the occasion with TROS. Those two films for me are the best saga films since ROTJ. For both of those films, I was glued to the screen and mesmerized in my first viewing. Not many films can do that so I consider them very well made.

With the way the saga developed, I can deal with TFA. It has flaws, but it is a solid introduction to the characters. It is like a prologue to the following 2 parter.

Post
#1471732
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I feel this episode puts the series in perspective for me.

Overall a good episode. I have felt all along that they had too few people. It shouldn’t have been just 2 Gamorrean Guards. And he should have been able to pick up a few people locally who wanted the same change. But then, as we’ve seen, a single Mandalorian comes to a fight worth as much as a squad of other troops. The armor and the toys make them formidable, and perhaps Boba Fett was counting on that. And Fennic Shand is nearly as effective herself. I just felt that there were too few on his side to start with. And then sitting there knowing that Cob Vance has been shot and likely isn’t coming and neither are his reinforcements.

I felt the Pike attack was wonderfully executed and I loved the scorpion droids (droidekkars on steroids). I did feel the timing of the Rancor arrival felt too quick. Is Jabba’s palace really that close to Mos Espa?

But other than that I loved this episode. I was disappointed that Grogu arrived with only R2, but in retrospect that is not surprising. It worked and kept the Boba Fett storyline away from the Luke/Ahsoka story line. I loved the showdown between Boba and Cad Bane. I loved that he won because of the Tusken training and weapon.

With this, I think it is clear that this series remains tightly tied to The Mandalorian. It is really a side story. I think they could have done quite a few things to make it better but I find no huge flaws with it. It is more lacking than badly done. With the way things worked out, I think Din’s scenes could have been spread out a bit rather than compacted into the final 3 episodes. I think the entire series should have been more like the final 2 episodes. The whole series would have benefitted. But the dialog portion of duel with Cad Bane really brought Boba’s story full circle and made this huge change Boba is trying to make tie in to his character origins. For those who wanted more OT Boba, that isn’t such a good thing, but for those of us who like complex characters, it is a fascinating and wonderful aspect to the story.

This series is definitely better than Resistance. It felt like one of those series of side stories in Clone Wars. Kind of like Boba’s episodes there. I think if you watched those episodes than this series, it would fit very well. Again, it could have been better, but overall really good.

Post
#1471524
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

fmalover said:

Now that you guys are touching upon it, that is one thing that has been bothering me for the past two decades, the characterisation of Obi-Wan Kenobi in the PT.

In TESB, Yoda says he won’t train Luke because he’s too impatient and reckless, at which point Obi-Wan retorts “Was I any different?”. Lucas contradicted this when making the PT, as throughout the PT Obi-Wan is portrayed as a very observant, by-the-book Jedi who never questions the will of the Council, and I suspect that Lucas got the roles mixed up, as Qui-Gon is the one with the rebellious streak Yoda spoke of. When Obi-Wan insisted on training Anakin because of his promise to Qui-Gon, Yoda says he senses Qui-Gon’s defiance in him. Really?

Padawan Obi-wan was a bit reckless. He was listening to Qui-gon. When he started training Anakin that ceased to be the case. And we didn’t see the much younger Obi-wan, the one Yoda trained, so we can’t really say what Obi-wan said to Yoda was not completely true.

Post
#1471300
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Every hear people tell old war stories? Well, when someone isn’t around to check them, they often embellish and skew things. I wish people would stop taking every word that every characters says as 100% accurate. People don’t talk that way. Memories fail, things get forgotten or mis remembered, and some people just plain make things up. Like Vader betraying and murdering Luke’s father. Whatever Bail told Leia was close enough to the truth, but what she said doesn’t have to be the literal history.

Post
#1470937
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

A lot of my opinions have already been reflected in previous posts, but I’ll share a critique and a compliment.

I know it is a cliché, but I think Boba’s character change could’ve been better explained, and been interesting, if he got amnesia while he was in the Sarlacc. I know Legends had this idea that sarlaccs could assimilate the thoughts and memories of their victims, so there could’ve been a lore explanation to it. So when he wakes up in the desert, without his armor, he has no idea who he is or how he really got there. Then he begins living with the Tuskens and the story could play out similarly.

But when he saves Fennec, she recognizes him and reveals him who he is. This would give us an opportunity to have flashbacks of Boba Fett in his prime hunting days, which we’ve actually never seen in live action if you think about it. Boba really doesn’t do much in the OT, so it could’ve been a good opportunity to see where Boba got his reputation as a “cold-blooded killer”, and the greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy.

And more importantly to the narrative, we can see how Boba reacts to the contrast of who he used to be and who he is now, and see how he integrates his new life with his old one.

But I do think the story works well as-is, but I think it would’ve helped if we got a better understanding of who he was before he fell into the pit to understand how the desert really changed him.

On a positive note, I’ve liked some of the direction in the past two episodes. Bryce Dallas Howard did a great job with the last episode, and the long take in the lounge on ringworld made me raise up in my seat. Seeing more creative direction in Star Wars is exactly what I want to see. Because right now, I feel like we’re getting some good Star Wars television, but does it really stand on its own as good television?

I also enjoyed the Cobb Vanth and Cad Bane duel. I appreciate how Filoni stretched it out, allowing their to be these awkward pauses between their replies to build up tension. As well as the direction with the eyes, showing the Deputy’s nervousness and Cobb’s concern for his Deputy, which made him vulnerable to Cad’s quick draw. It reminded me a lot of how Filoni did Maul and Obi-Wan’s duel in Rebels. It’s clear character through action.

Star Wars television so far has felt pretty experimental in a few different ways (like some of the big narrative choices this season), but I hope they keep pushing projects to take more risks and not be afraid to stray off the path of the formula.

I love your idea. That plus a couple extra episodes to better build the current conflict and make it feel more tense. Plus I feel that if anyone is watching this who did not watch The Mandalorian, they are missing the entire arc of how Boba got his armor back. I love what they are doing, but it could have been better and you have nailed the biggest issue.

Though I do think the series made it clear that Boba is suffering from Sarlacc stomach acid burns. That plus laying in the sun after the Jawas stole his armor could explain why he can’t remember how he got out or where his armor is. It is kind of like George’s PT story telling, the clues are there, but it needs to be a bit more explicit for most people to get it on the first viewing.

Post
#1470934
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Cthulhunicron said:

rocknroll41 said:

I gotta say: I’m really starting to hate the spice arc in the boba show. It rips off dune, for starters (which starwars already does too much as is). Also it makes Tattooine more important than it should be. What made Tattooine cool before is that it was a backwater world. The biggest thing tho is that why would boba, a crime lord, want to stop CRIME?

I’ve been saying this since they announced the show. If Boba Fett is going to be a crime lord, how can he be the protagonist of a show? The protagonist is supposed to be someone the audience can root for. If he’s a crime lord, supposedly he’d be committing crimes, ie doing cruel and unethical things for profit.

It’s like Disney wants to have their cake and eat it, too, without understanding the consequences of what they’re doing. They know people like Boba, so they gave him his own show. They also know people like the idea of Boba being a badass outlaw, but the two ideas are mutually exclusive. So we end up with this awkward show where Boba Fett is a crime lord who is also somehow honorable and noble, and doesn’t seem interested in committing any crimes other than collecting tribute from casinos. He also seeks help from Cob Vanth, an officer of the law, so he’s apparently a crime lord who also requests help from the authorities.

They could have side stepped this entire problem if they just kept him as a bounty hunter who is now working for the new republic, bringing in the galaxy’s worst criminals. That way he can be a likeable protagonist who is also a morally grey badass.

I think there have been plenty of instances of likable bad guys that they have built a story around. Sopranos for instance. But his change come via the Tusken Raiders and his time with them. That is pretty clear. Plus he has lost his armor.

Post
#1470776
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Apparently.

I’m of the the opinion that as much as I love Star Wars, it’s kind of limited. I’ve mentioned this on forums before, and people have responded by saying that the galaxy far far away has all this unlimited potential for different stories. But it really seems like all anybody wants is endless stories about Luke, Han, and Leia.

This is such a disgrace. Disney is not killing SW: it’s the ones who praise this shit who are responsible.

Wow, I didn’t think you’d resort to insulting people who like this series. But here we are!

I recognize that it isn’t quite as good as The Mandalorian, but it is still a good series. I think a lot will tie together in the finale. And considering how much time Boba Fett took up in Season 2, it was nice to Din on screen. It had a point as it setup his return to Help Boba. It could have pulled him out of nowhere, but what is the fun of that.

And isn’t anyone thinking about all the fun twists by having Boba Fett, Ahsoka Tano, and Luke Sykwalker in the same place? Filoni has quite a long trail of stories that can make for some interesting twists. They could really complicate the finale. The main saga is full of interconnections and links and Filoni crafted the same sort of thing in the 5 previous series. We are following a parallel but intersecting story that goes from the prequels to the sequels. And a lot of what Filoni has done came from George. Finding out Darth Maul (or just Maul now) was still alive and finding a new way was something that George insisted Filoni include in the Clone Wars.

When you have so much interlinking, it isn’t fan service continue what you started. Fan service is a something that is shoehorned in that isn’t really part of the story. A prime example is Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba in Rogue one is exactly that. What are they even doing there? Is there any point to their appearance? At least R2 and Threepio later have a purpose, to hint that their role is about to start and we might see Leia. But those two are useless. They had to hop a transport to Mos Eisley immediately after we see them an that just doesn’t feel right.

Also, easter eggs aren’t fan service. They lie in the background and don’t impact the story. There are a lot of them sprinkled throughout the saga. We had a lot of them in Solo. Especially in Dryden Vos’s ship. And then you have intersecting stories where a significant character from one series or film shows up in another series or film. Filoni does a lot of that. And never without purpose or just to please fans. No, he always does it with the story in mind. Cad Bane, Luke, Ahsoka, Grogu, Din, they all are in this series for a reason and the finale will likely reveal the reason. Fennic Shand and Cad Bane get a rematch. So that makes a lot of sense. How the others will link we don’t yet know. But it could be epic. That some are writing it off as fan service ignores the quality of writing we have already seen that has been epic.

Post
#1470618
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I disagree with so many posts above.

First. What is fan service? When it is bad and when is it good? In a hugely interconnected universe like Star Wars you are going to have old things show up. One of the few things I hate about the prequels is the lack of OT and PT aliens. Too much effort was made to make it different without throwing in a few familiar faces. So you can go too far the other way. If Fan Service must always be a bad thing than not every appearance of something familiar is Fan Service.

Also, too many are objecting that a couple of episodes that aren’t focusing on the titular character. This is not an episodic series, but a larger story told in multiple episodes. Boba Fett’s story starts with episode 1 of season 2 of The Mandalorian. Boba Fett already invaded that series so this is just continuing that story and we have episodes that focus on Boba’s past and now episodes exploring what Din Djarin is doing. Why? That is the question you should be asking yourself. This story is building to a conclusion that reportedly is epic (and we shall soon see if it truly is) and they are gathering characters for that conclusion. What form that will take we don’t know, but there are all sorts of interesting possibilities.

And the big question from the end of The Mandalorian season 2 was how the series can continue without Grogu. The series was really Long Wolf and Cub set in Star Wars and leaving Grogu with Luke for too long ruins the dynamic of the series. And Grogu’s ties to Din Djarin pose an issue for Luke. He has learned from Yoda. He has likely learned a few things from Ahsoka (it is obvious they did not just meet). We don’t know what he may have already found in the post Empire world about the Jedi Training at the Temple on Coruscant. What we do have is Luke in TLJ saying that the TPM era Jedi were flawed. So does Luke learn from Grogu, or does he cling to the TPM era Jedi teachings? Does Kylo Ren fall because Luke let himself be blinded by the idea of restoring the Jedi, or will Grogu teach him that it is not attachments that are the danger, it is the fear of loss that is the danger.

So there are a lot of great story telling possibilities here. It does not all have to revolve around Boba Fett as long as this series is revolving around Boba’s efforts to become and secure and defend being Daimyo of Tatooine. If that is his intent as we saw at the end of The Mandalorian Season 2, then the story telling is spot on. You have a bounty hunter who has survived for a decade since he fell in the Sarlacc and been rescued from the desert by Tusken Raiders aiming much higher and striving for something different. So many of the complaints I see about Boba’s characterization are tied to his new line of work differing form his old line of work.

I think some of the different threads of story will come together in the finale. And we will see if it will be carried on for a second season. We know The Mandalorian Season 3 is on the horizon.

Also, complaining about animated characters and how they are transferred to live action is sometimes silly. Cad Bane is blue. He is represented by a man in a mask like his fellow Duros were in ANH and his skin color is in line with the other live action appearances of his race. Same with Ahsoka. I wasn’t very pleased with how she looked in Rebels (a lot of the character design in that series was very stylized) and her live action appearance here is closer to her original look in The Clone Wars. Plus it is live action so it is bound to be different. I somewhat expect Asoka to show up next week and for Cad Bane to be defeated and escape. His appearance here is very organic (other than he is really old at this point) because this is the sort of thing he does and it makes sense for the Pike Syndicate to hire him.

I think the series could have been better arranged. I think they should have started it out with Boba Fett escaping the Sarlaac and just done a chronological story instead of flashbacks. I think there should have been some other scenes of Fennic recruiting muscle in the last two episodes and saved some of Din’s story for the his next season. But overall I like where the story is going and I love the characters and how things are intertwining. Star Wars is all about things being interconnected and I love that Filoni (who has taken many lessons from George himself) crafts such excellent long term arcs. There are still a lot of unanswered questions in the post ROTJ world that I think these series are going to address.

Post
#1470614
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

fmalover said:

I’ve seen the screenshots of Luke’s appearance in TBoBF, and one thing that bothers me is that they made him look younger than in RotJ, even though it takes place a few years after the Battle of Endor.

They didn’t. Take a look at the movies he was in around 1994. I googled that the other day and found it a surprisingly exact match to how he looked then.

And Mark is a voice actor. A very good one. I believe the voice is his, but they have adjusted it to sound younger. I found his appearance in the episode to be very well done.

Post
#1469858
Topic
The weapons that turned Owen and Beru into skeletons were (at least originally meant to be) stormtrooper blasters
Time

Mocata said:

Han’s blaster in the original movie is wildly inconsistent, from Greedo’s death to the massive explosions on the hangar bay walls. As for Uncle Owen, I always assumed they just started a fire to cover their tracks.

Chewie was shooting the Stormtroops with the Falcon’s gun. There are more shots than Han is firing and from a different angle. I had never thought of that, but someone around here brought it up.

Post
#1469769
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I think the comparison image proves beyond any doubt that that didn’t ruse anything from TPM. Most likely it is a CG background. The obviously have the tools to do this as the episodes are full of CG backgrounds.

But a note on reusing old CG items. As long as you have software that can read the files, you can use old CG materials. The B5 people have been doing so. And that is going from Amiga to modern systems. So there is no issue. And where ILM crafted a lot of the software themselves, it is very likely that they can use anything from the archives if they want. Also very likely is that the old CG parts were deemed too low quality and were updated or totally recreated. Hard to say unless you know someone from ILM. My bet is that they just analyzed TPM and made everything new. That would likely be the easiest option.

Post
#1469193
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

I think the two series are too intertwined to really separate. You can’t tell the story of Boba Fett without season 2 of The Mandalorian. So it makes sense that we get a step forward for Din Djarin in Boba Fett. This is really a hallmark of Filoni’s story telling. it was also common in the Russel T. Davis Doctor Who seasons. Blink being a truly outstanding one. And having watched a lot of relatively modern TV lately, I haven’t had any problem with the story telling style. Book of Boba Fett has been one of the better series lately.