Oh my. Mike Zeroh is having a cow. He is making up stuff left and right. His latest claims is that Lucas wrote and directed scenes for the film that have now been cut. Fun to hear the crap he comes up with, but he is deranged.
TROS Supercut Trailer (all footage in plot order according to the leaks):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp4zBscDu94
Lots of stuff, but I’m not sure that all of it is quite in the right order. Looks like they rushed and didn’t fix everything.
“They fly now!”
I couldn’t help but laugh at that clip. It came off as total schlock. I’m trying to embrace it.
It’s not like the clones could fly or anything like that… or the Fetts.
Hmmmm… Living in Canada I’m getting “Maclunkey” on the D+ site on my PC, but get this guy when I stream from my Roku and FireTV stick. I would’ve assumed their new 4K master would be the basis for all streaming versions; guess not.
Each Streaming service would have to update their master file. Reportedly YouTube already has changed it so the others are likely too at some point in the future.
According to what science says, as long as you don’t try to hold your breath, nothing in the vacuum of space will kill you instantly. There is no exploding. What would happen first is freezing and asphyxiation. The scene in TLJ that keeps getting complaints actually (except for the use of the force) pretty well follows what science says would happen (the ice crystals were a nice touch, though perhaps not entirely realistic). And Leia’s use of the force is no different form when Luke grabbed his lightsaber in the Wampa cave, only Leia grabbed the ship and they nicely used Newton’s laws to make her move toward it instead of it toward her. And it really fits with where her character was going (before her untimely death) and where it is rumored he character will still go. One of the problems with Abrams method of story telling is he saves backstory to add later and reportedly, before she got pregnant, Leia was training with Luke.
So there really isn’t much problem with the shot of Rey jumping out of the hanger and to the Falcon. If you have a problem with that you must have a real problem with the shot in 2001. A vacuum just doesn’t kill instantly. That is a myth (and not the fun kind that Star Wars relies on).
HDTVTest evaluates the OT and ST in HDR on Disney+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZmMjPJiAk
Vincent of HDTVTest is a respected reviewer and display calibrator. He doesn’t get into color grading or anything like that, but it’s an interesting look into whether the OT on Disney+ is true HDR or just some contrast tweaks (spoiler: it’s not real HDR).
I wonder how much of the issue is “fake HDR.” They may have simply intentionally graded it that way, giving it a restrained HDR pass. It may also be that there isn’t a whole lot of dynamic range to squeeze out of the camera negatives at this point, if there ever was to begin with.
But if I had to guess, I’d say that even if they could have gotten more HDR “pop” they still chose not to, if only so that the OT would still recognizably look like the OT. For all the time they’ve spent keeping the OOT buried, Lucasfilm sure seems to be striving for authenticity as far as the color and contrast goes.
I was thinking the same thing as I was watching that video from Vincent linked above. From what I’ve seen of movies and TV, unless it was intentionally created very bright, the bright areas on film and TV aren’t really that bright (to avoid loss of detail). Star Wars OT has been criticized in the past for not getting the brightness correct and crushing the blacks. I bet they avoided utilizing the full extent of HDR to avoid criticism and to keep it more faithful to the original look. I don’t think it really matters that the core of the lightsabers and other FX in the OT aren’t as bright as in the ST.
However - Lucas DID basically whip up Empire Strikes Back’s story/structure more or less all by himself once Brackett was gone. Kasdan contributed heavily, yes, but by the time he came on the bones of the thing were firmly in place. But on the other hand: The most famous twist of all time, probably, and the one that basically doomed Star Wars to forever be taken way more seriously than it ever really needed to, and trained its biggest fans to expect twists and turns and huge surprises in every chapter despite the fact it’s ALWAYS been a straightforward fairy-tale other than THAT ONE TIME… that twist was basically pulled out of his backside at the last second before shooting started. It wasn’t a deeply considered, thought-out idea. It was just a hand grenade tossed at the end of the story to create one hell of a cliffhanger for the next chapter.
Right, I think Lucas is a pretty good “big picture” guy, but when it comes to screenwriting and directing most of his work comes off sooooo flat. That’s why Star Wars 1977 is so perplexing. It’s the exception to the rule. It’s funny and emotional and when you watch it you think, “this guy wrote and directed the prequels?”
It isn’t surprising when you realize how many people Lucas had read that first script. Some very famous names. Brian Depalma, Stephen Spielberg, Francis Ford Coppola, and others. They all had input. That input is why the Toche station scenes were written (not Lucas’s original idea and they were only filmed because nothing else was ready to shoot). So the original film had a LOT of outside input. Bracket and Kasdan made the TESB script (the story was Lucas’s from day one) and Kasdan did the same for ROTJ. TESB is what it is because of the unique combination of talent. That was Lucas’s problem with the PT, he wrote and directed all of them himself. His flaws showed through. While AOTC had a credited writer with Lucas, it turned out the worst. He lacked the talented writers to bring his story to life and the right director to finish the job.
One of the biggest problems with the ST is that there was no “big picture” going into it. And it’s definitely been a detriment to the series. No matter how much you like TFA and TLJ as individual films (I think they work pretty well separately), there is very little narrative continuity between the two. And the way TLJ ended, there’s unlikely to be much narrative continuity with Episode IX either. The ST desperately needed a “big picture”, but I’m not so sure George Lucas would have been the right man to do it.
I’m not sure we are in a position to see if it has a big picture or not. It took a while for fans to realize the big picture of the PT was the rise of Palpatine. It was a bit too subtle in the PT until they reached the end. I think and hope the ST will have a similar big picture in the final film that will tie the others in.
Mike Zeroh’s name is quite fitting. Why do people keep watching his videos?
I find his videos entertaining and amusing. I don’t think he knows a fraction of what he pretends to. But it is fun to see what leaps he makes from sketchy leaks.
I think what we are seeing with the OT is all the 2003 cleanup changes dumped. This is a new scan of the 97 SE negatives using more modern equipment and clean up techniques. The heavy blues in the Hoth scenes are gone (matching the original release) and all the colors are closer to the attempts to restore color to the GOUT and 35 mm film scans. Though all leaning a bit too far to the red (though not near as far as the previous scans). I found the 2003 scans of Endor to be rather lifeless and I think these are far better. And while the reds are reduced in ANH, the yellows are back. Many scenes have far more color than they have before. Just the overall color scheme isn’t as bold and in-your-face. But scene for scene there is more color and more life.
And to address the SE conversation above, I feel that the SE indicates a set of changes to the films so any subsequent version that has those changes is also an SE version of the film. That is why I use the year with the SE to indicate which version. So 97SE, 2004 SE, 2011 SE, 2019 SE. Where the various changes to the originals are minor and virtually never impact the image or the story. The inclusion of Episode IV A New Hope was the most jarring change to the original versions. While only the 97 SE was labeled as such by Lucasfilm, I don’t think that is a reason to limit calling only the 97 version the Specaial Edition when it contained so many major changes to the films that have remained in following versions.
Additional changes made for 4K, according to Bill Hunt at the Digital Bits:
The iconic Fox “fanfare” music has been restored to all of the films (it was removed on some Digital releases). The Fox logo used is the new one (not the vintage one from 1977, 80, and 83), but at least now it’s consistent. And hearing that music again before the start of each of these films is encouraging.
One (and possibly more) sky replacements have been done to the scenes in which the droids arrive on Tatooine. They’re subtle and actually make the scene more consistent, so aren’t especially objectionable.
Some of the SE effects have been tweaked again or redone, for example the shot in which R2 is hiding behind the rocks from the Sand People. The rock positioning has been adjusted and the lighting on R2 has been tweaked to at least make the shot look a little more natural. The SE change is still objectionable, but at least it looks better now.
Lightsaber blades have been tweaked all through the films so they’re now more consistent looking, accurate, and stable. And they are now the correct color consistently—a significant improvement to my thinking.
I also believe that there’s been additional effort to clean up matte boxes and lines, especially in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Again, this is appreciated and an improvement.
Unfortunately, as you may have heard by now, there’s been another change to the Han/Greedo scene. And it’s even more jarring than before. After Han says his iconic line, “Yes, I’ll bet you have,” the film now cuts back to a quick shot of Greedo again, who mutters an additional bit of Rodian dialogue (non-subtitled), before they both shoot at once, Han’s head weirdly shifts to one side, and Greedo falls.
The sequence in Jedi when the Rebels arrive on Endor—which on Blu-ray was oddly blurry (likely caused by some kind of registration error in the film scan)—has finally been fixed.
And the “A long time ago…” title cards for the OT have been left as they were in the 97 SE, instead of changed to match the PT.
yotsuya said:
And it is exactly what it looks like when I try to play on the Disney+ app on my TV. But not when I watch in a web browser or stream it through chromecast. I prefer to share what the image really looks like, not a partial and incomplete version.There are some HDR to SDR converted stills out there now over at the Star Wars Trilogy forum, if the lack of tone mapping really sets you off that much.
I posted these “incomplete” screengrabs so people could see the full detail in the 4K image, FWIW. I do hope someone was able to properly compare them to the Blu-ray.
It’s a clear 1080p upscale to my eyes.
While some have noted less DNR, I did some comparisons and they both share the same redish shadow tones and I really don’t see anything about TPM that indicates a new scan, unlike the OT, which all appear to be new. There is one OT thing they failed to change, the A long time ago card at the beginning is back to the original for the OT, like it was in the theatrical 97 SE.
As has been discussed in the several posts above, those screencaps are minus the HDR metadata.
And it is exactly what it looks like when I try to play on the Disney+ app on my TV. But not when I watch in a web browser or stream it through chromecast. I prefer to share what the image really looks like, not a partial and incomplete version.
These are more indicative of what the image really looks like.
Finally, some 4K screencaps of THE PHANTOM MENACE, without the HDR grade. Looks super DNR’d, just like the Blu-ray.
Well, you are using one of the broken apps. The colors are all washed out. It looks nothing like that when I stream it through my chromecast. And after watching TMP, I would have to say that it is previous master, not a new one. The scan is identical and still full of all the same flaws.
What master does the Disney+ version use? Is it the same as the 2011 master (or the 2011 master but upscaled)? Is it the 2011 master but at higher resolution? Or is it a new master entirely?
2011
Incorrect. It is a new tansfer of ANH, TESB, and ROTJ with different colors and a few differences. The changes cannot come from being recolored as they restore previously missing colors. I think TPM is as well and TFA likely is nearly identical, but unlike the Blu-Ray master (which had burned in English subtitles for all regions and languages) it has a clean image and you can turn the subtitles off. AOTC and ROTS have no color changes (makes sense since the digital file is the original image, not a film scan) and is likely upscaled to 4k.
From my experience so far with Disney+, you have to be careful how you watch it. I tried 3 ways and got three totally different results. I have a Samsung phone and TV and through both those apps played on that device, the picture is screwed up. The phone is properly saturated but too dark. The TV was desaturated but was the correct lightness. When I stream from my phone to the TV via Chromecast, it was perfect. I tested this with seveal films and it seems to be the 4k content. The older films in HD look the same no matter which way you view them. I contacted Disney+ support and this is a known issue. So be careful how you watch the movies to judge what the colors really are.
Gotta love Mike Zeroh. Sometimes he is full of it. He is claiming the George himself is helping do the final edits to the end of the film. I never take Zeroh at face value, but I do hope this is the case. The ending will be much better if George does it.
Any plans for a grindhouse release?
Considering how unhappy I’ve always been with the 2003 transfer (and subsequent cleanup), I am loving these. I am positive they are new transfers. ANH now matches color tones with TESB, ROTJ, and TPM instead of being overtly red (aka lobstermen). What leads me to conclude that it must be a new transfer instead of a recoloring is that some of the things are very hard to recolor. This would be easier going back to the negative and rescanning it using better, more modern equipment. They did match the crop of the previous transfer, but the magenta is gone. And this was due to the yellow color being lost more than too much magenta. All the 2003 bright magenta blaster flashes are now peachy like the GOUT and 35 mm versions. The yellow flowers outside the Lars dining room are back (not possible to restore this without rescanning the negative or another copy of the film as they were white - no yellow left). I would not expect to see this good a job unless they redid it. Too many instances of missing colors in the 2003 version. Plus it seems to be a color grade more consistent with the 35mm scans we have been done around here. All four movies do lean too much to the red. The darkness I thought I saw was actually just how the app shows in on my Android phone. When I stream it to my TV it looks really good. Some inconsistencies, but really good compared to what it did look like.
AOTC and ROTS appear to be untouched. I don’t have any 4k equipment to examine how they look in 4k, but the colors appear to be identical so most likely these are just upscaled from the digital masters. But the differences in the other films, even TFA, look to be from a completely different souce from what we had on Blu-ray. The corrections to ANH are incredible and TESB is far less blue in the snow scenes that we have had. I think they missed some of the recoloring Lucas did for the 2003 edition and I don’t want to point it out to them because it looks so much better.
Has anyone purchased the new discs? Is it this version or the previous version? I might have to buy ANH myself to check if no one else does.
Honestly, as I was watching this first episode, I kept thinking, “This really isn’t very good.” So, hopefully it improves over the next few episodes. It had a couple of decent moments, but I feel those were outnumbered by other scenes that were, let’s just say…lacking.
I think the best part was the introduction of IG-11 (even though they started milking the whole self-destruct joke way too often). Unfortunately, most scenes were merely mediocre, and the episode doesn’t start well with the rather clichéd and poorly done bar fight. Which is then followed by the frankly stupid monster-under-the-ice scene (it’s as if J.J. Abrams was writing this). Also, the numerous references/callbacks to things from the OT started to be a bit ridiculous (Kowakian monkey-lizards on a spit, the gatekeeper droid, handy-dandy carbon-freezing slabs, etc.).
But, since it’s Star Wars, I’ll keep watching and hoping it gets better.
See, the OT references you didn’t like, I loved. I got a good chuckle out of the Kowakian on a spit with another looking on. I questioned the carbon-freezing until I realized that after it worked so well for Fett with Han, that such a process might just catch on in the bounty hunter world. Especially where you can risk dead or alive. I did think the episode was a bit slow, but it fit the story and the characters. And the shootout at the end was great. I thought the story paid off pretty well. As first episodes go, it was very above average. And I loved the beast riding alien that kept saying “I have spoken”.
So are we calling this one the 19SE yet? Dibs!
Let’s see, for Star Wars, ignoring some of the subtler differences (the cloudy composite/altered credits/natural home video variance between releases), we’ve got:
1977: original video (mono mix)
1977: original video (stereo mix)
1977: original video (six-channel mix)
1981 (3): “A New Hope” crawl and flyover, same three audio choices (crudely spliced onto 70mm reels, but still different)
1985: new audio mix, 1981 video
1993: new audio mix with alterations, 1981 video
1997SE: altered audio and video
2004SE: altered audio and video
GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio
2011SE: altered audio and video
2019SE: altered audio and videoStar Wars is now weighing in at THIRTEEN distinct versions of the film. And that’s when you exclude the obscure ones!
Don’t forget that the first run had three different FX shots and different end credits. So there are 2 may 1977 versions and 2 or 3 later 1977 versions. And the pre Definitive Collection English video had the same 3 different FX shots with the later end credits and the 1981 crawl. The early releases used the 1977 stereo or mono audio. The 1985 cut used the same hybrid video. So far all the 35 mm prints (chemical and Technicolor) have been from the later 1977 run. Only Puggo and Moth3r’s bootleg have the full original May 1977 edit. The clue to the timing are the foreign language versions with all match the alter 1977 cut and were done at about the same time. And the GOUT is just the Definitive Collection version with the original crawl tacked on… video wise it matches the later 1977 release.
It was alright, short episode so really just a taste. Didn’t feel anything like Star Wars to me but that’s not a bad thing. Stylistically it’s very cool.
It felt very much like some of the better fan productions. It felt nothing like the movies. But definitely felt Star Wars to me. Just not Saga. I very much got the samurai and spaghetti western vibe and Star Wars took so much from that. I just had less of the Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers vibe than Lucas instilled in the Saga.
Some people are saying that the new 4K master has more recomposited matte paintings and such than before, but I can’t confirm that one at the moment. So if that’s the case, it would mean more work for authentic despecializing.
No, just mix in the previous version for those shots. If you are after 4k, your choices are few, but if you are after HD, there is the new one, the BR, the HDTV, and the film scans. The effort Harmy went through for the original despecilized is no longer really necessary (unless you want to make the 97 SE version, and those are coming).
Also, I understand this isn’t at the top of everyone’s list, but are there any new subtitle/dubbing languages available? Can someone post a complete list?
I only went into that setting in two movies and I didn’t see anything unusual. Not very many choices. Spanish audio and English, Spanish, and Netherlands subtitles.
