walkingdork

Ziggy Stardust said:

I feel embarrassed looking at some of my early posts here. I was so immature. However I still am now, so....

yeah, but you're just a kid right? Don't waste your childhood trying to fit in with adults. Get crazy! :)

georgec said:

walkingdork said:

georgec said:

Some people here have apparently not heard of pulling out.

Abortion is a touchy issue. Stupid, irresponsible people shouldn't have sex and risk pregnancy, but they do. If abortion were illegal, would it be less of a crime for these people to have kids, not care for them, neglect them, and multiply the whole cycle? What happens to all of these kids?

If abortion is legal, does it provide a tool for people to use it as contraception rather than an emergency safeguard? Does it encourage further irresponsible behavior?

There's truth to every side of the debate. There's no clear answer because everyone feels differently.

I do think it's extremely naive to limit sex to purely reproductive purposes. That risk is always there, but people don't have sex just to have babies. They do it for plenty of other reasons, whether to express love or to just bust a nut.

I'll personally never understand why people feel so strongly about abortion, one way or another. When it comes down it is a personal thing. Abortion makes for nice debate but in the grander scheme of things it's not a huge deal.

 

Nice post. It does come down to a personal thing, that's why I just think that the government should not intervene and let it be a personal decision. I'm completely fine with conservatives and church folk trying to encourage people to find other solutions. As I said I personally would encourage most people to give it up for adoption. But I think advice is all the further it should go. In the end I believe it should be the woman's choice.

You just can't regulate sexual activity. That's 1984/Handmaid's Tale type of shit.

Exactly.

darth_ender said:

Well, if you don't like reading Emily Bronte, I'm sure there are other novels that might be more to your liking :)  I'm honestly ready to stop, as I doubt a single soul has changed his or her mind because of this thread.

Stem cells, stem cells, stem cells! :D

georgec said:

Some people here have apparently not heard of pulling out.

Abortion is a touchy issue. Stupid, irresponsible people shouldn't have sex and risk pregnancy, but they do. If abortion were illegal, would it be less of a crime for these people to have kids, not care for them, neglect them, and multiply the whole cycle? What happens to all of these kids?

If abortion is legal, does it provide a tool for people to use it as contraception rather than an emergency safeguard? Does it encourage further irresponsible behavior?

There's truth to every side of the debate. There's no clear answer because everyone feels differently.

I do think it's extremely naive to limit sex to purely reproductive purposes. That risk is always there, but people don't have sex just to have babies. They do it for plenty of other reasons, whether to express love or to just bust a nut.

I'll personally never understand why people feel so strongly about abortion, one way or another. When it comes down it is a personal thing. Abortion makes for nice debate but in the grander scheme of things it's not a huge deal.

 

Nice post. It does come down to a personal thing, that's why I just think that the government should not intervene and let it be a personal decision. I'm completely fine with conservatives and church folk trying to encourage people to find other solutions. As I said I personally would encourage most people to give it up for adoption. But I think advice is all the further it should go. In the end I believe it should be the woman's choice.

darth_ender said:

Can't respond to everything, but I will say in response to one comment that sex is indeed natural and it is a beautiful thing.  I'm glad you even called it something like, "the beautiful act of making love."  I just am incapable of distinguishing between the beautiful act of making love and the beautiful act of making babies.  They are inseparable and were never intended to be otherwise.  I understand that our society and economy are easier on smaller families.  But sex's primary function has always been to make babies, and therefore every time someone has intercourse they must be cognizant of that fact.  

So by that reasoning are you also against birth control?

If they are not responsible enough to care for a baby, they shouldn't have sex.  

Maybe but clearly some people aren't that responsible even if we can both agree that they should be that responsible. There's people out there that should never ever be parents, but I can't think of a way to prevent them from having sex. This makes me think of a sci-fi movie (someone help me out) where people had to register and be approved to have babies. Maybe it was an episode of Sliders (awesome show) or something I don't know.

If they had sex without being prepared for that potential end result (as millions are), then they should at least be responsible enough to give the baby up for adoption.  From the legislative end, I feel much more could be done to improve the adoption system, but I never, ever would put killing a human, even an undeveloped, unthinking, unfeeling human, above a person's level of responsibility.

I agree. There's plenty of folks in this country who cannot have children and want to. I think if you don't want to have a kid you should give it up for adoption. However, I don't think that the law should force that decision for people who might have different or extreme circumstances.

That said, twister111, you made it quite clear this hits home to you.  Without asking you to divulge details you clearly would rather avoid, let me just say that I don't judge most who have had an abortion, considering most people don't see things the way I do.  If a mother accidently forgot her baby was in the back seat of the car and allowed it to die, I'd be unhappy with her choices, but I also would not judge what was not a conscious choice (this is different from when people say, "I'll be back in a couple of hours, Junior").  I don't hold a pro-choicer to be a murderer (unless I believe they should know better perhaps, such as a member of my church who would believe abortions are okay).

When can we migrate this conversation towards stem cells? :)

Alexrd said:

Warbler said:

here I have to disagree with you, Alexrd.   Lets say you buy a lottery ticket for the 10 million dollar jackpot.   You had pick 6 numbers that could each be 0 to 99.  You had to get all the numbers right and in the right order.    You know your ticket has the potential to be the winning ticket.   But if it turns out that you ticket is the winner,  I'll bet you would be surprised as hell. 

Well, but I wouldn't be surprised about my chance to win, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the ticket. I get what you're saying, though.

My point is that even with contraceptive methods, people should be aware that they are fallible and they should accept the outcome in case of failure, before having sex.

This is why I question your sexual activity. People who have sex frequently using birth control can go years and years without having a kid. So when you find out your pregnant after a decade of having sex, YES, it comes as a surprise.

I think everyone here agrees that abortion is not appropriate form of birth control. I assure there is no significant number of the population that is thinking, "nah I don't need to take birth control, I'll just get an abortion." Abortion is much more expensive than the bill or condoms.

And, YES, the birth rate has dropped in Western/Northern Europe and in America. It's not an opinion it's a fact. Ever hear of demography? People study these sorts of things.

twister111 said:

 

EyeShotFirst said:What do you do to stay healthy? How much do you run a day? What do you eat? Say anything, hell even talk about how you want to get healthy.

I eat meat to keep my eyesight...

Before you think I'm joking, I'm not. Basically three times by accident I managed to just eat/drink non-meat products for a few days. Orange juice, yoghurt, pasta without meatballs, stuff like that. The first time I didn't know what was happening or why my eyesight was leaving my right eye. I forget at the moment how I went from recognizing I'm going blind to eating some turkey. Either way it worked, and I got my eyesight back. Happened again years later and I remembered my previous experience. I struggled with my eyesight enough to cook some leftover chicken from the fridge. It worked and I wasn't very hungry at the second time considering I already ate 20 minutes before. So it was tremendously difficult for me to try to eat more. I always just eat until I'm full. Anyway by the third time I knew what to do and ate some beef. I don't know why my body is like this but it is. I need meat to continue my ability to see. My body's weird like that.

 

That is weird. I'd be curious to know what vitamins or minerals you're missing that that is happening.

I wrestle around with my kids (3 and 5) and play Wii Fit with them. That's about it. I have been a little depressed the last couple months when the kids are around (I only have them 50% of the time) so I don't eat much. I think the not eating is probably the biggest reason for my recent weight loss. That and the fact that I haven't smoked weed as much this semester which is the biggest cause for my late night snacking.

I'm not depressed all the time, it's just a recent rough patch and I know I'll be fine in the future. 

Alexrd said:

walkingdork said:

When my first child was conceived my wife was on the pill. When my second child was conceived she was on the pill AND I was wearing condoms. Judging by her reaction I would say there is NO chance of her missing them accidentally or intentionally. Weren't we responsible?

Did you know that there was still a chance of getting pregnant? If yes, and if you had sex anyway, what was the surprise?

Yes we knew there was a chance of getting pregnant, but the pill is like 90% effective so yes I was surprise.

Again you guys are comparing a beautiful act of making love to dangerous and immoral things like firing guns into a crowd or drunk driving.

fixed. Sorry, my bad.

Alexrd, is it that you are you married or have you just never been laid? I guess I don't know how old you are or what your marital status is. The idea that no one should be having sex unless they are planning on having kids is ludicrous. Nowadays, there are many forms of birth control that are up to 99% effective. The birth rate in Europe and America is far less than it was generations ago. Do you really think that is because people aren't having as much sex.

I'm not saying that if you get pregnant and don't feel like having a kid you should have an abortion. I'm not pro-get-an-abortion-if-it's-inconvenient. However there are several circumstances where I think abortion should an option. I don't think teenagers who stupid and make mistakes should have their life ruined because they let the high school quarterback talk them into sex. I don't think crackhead who will have their children taken from them and thrown into the foster care system (which is fucking mess).

Also the argument that fathers should just be better fathers is dumb. Of course dads in the world should be stepping up, but there is no way to enforce that.

When my first child was conceived my wife was on the pill. When my second child was conceived she was on the pill AND I was wearing condoms. Judging by her reaction I would say there is NO chance of her missing them accidentally or intentionally. Weren't we responsible?

Again you guys are coming a beautiful act of making love to dangerous and immoral things like firing guns into a crowd or drunk driving. Other than taking a shit, sex is one the most natural things in nature. Yes there are consequences but some people are not fit to handle those consequences...even if they want to be.

darth_ender said:

^Not my point of view.  I work in behavioral health with children 0-5 years old--children that only qualify for my program if they receive Medicaid.  I'm not into state mandated insurance, but I do believe that some sort of option should be available for everyone.  Ideally that's how our system would work, with the poor qualifying for welfare, but it's inefficient, broke government trying to manage this so it never works.  I hear you though.  That's one reason I am a self-admitted RINO.  I'm much more of a middle of the road independent in reality.

I think even if people don't want to cover the health of other humans through taxation there should at least be full and complete coverage for children. Children can't help the circumstances of their parents.

As for your previous comment, as well as Frink's held tongue (that's not like you, Frink ;), I know babies are damaging, but if you got drunk, a perfectly legal and enjoyable (to many) activity, and did something stupid that resulted in someone else living on a life support system.  Now let's say that this life support system required that your body provide nutrients to this injured person (an abortion advocate created this analogy, not me, only she left out the part where you are responsible for the person being hooked up to you).  Would it be right or wrong for you to disconnect yourself from this life support system and allow the other individual to die?  It would certainly be damaging to you to remain on it.  But you did make the choice to drink, which ultimately led to this person's needing it.

You are comparing the act of love making to drunk driving? Crackheads may be crackheads but they should not be denied love or loving each other through intercourse. However if two crackheads who love each other dearly get pregnant they should have the right (and be encouraged) to have an abortion.

I realize that you were talking about casual sex, but even then I would argue that sex is a more natural and socially accepted behavior than driving drunk.

I'm sorry that God (or Mother Nature) decided that females carry the babies.  Take that up with them.  But instead of leveling the playing field by killing innocent children, couldn't the playing field be leveled by demanding more of irresponsible fathers?

I'm not trying to level the playing field on who chooses whether abortion is appropriate, I'm saying mother nature gave them the baby carrying duties they should be the ones deciding whether they are able to properly take on that duty. Before technology, nature would help make that decision for them. Thousands of years ago if you were poor or an addict, you would not have the physical health to carry a baby.

I know that this thread will do nothing to change anyone's mind.  I just will never see the logic.  Injuring mothers, family economic difficulties, family contentedness, healthy sexual relationship...all very important considerations.  Killing someone...oh, wow, that outweighs all other considerations to me.

By terminating an abortion before a certain point you are not killing a thinking, feeling person, you are ending the potential of a thinking, feeling person. You make it seem like it's premeditated murder.

Do you believe that a miscarriage and a still-born birth are the same thing? Should we start naming and burying miscarriages? Maybe I should open up a miscarriage cemetery in my backyard. It's wouldn't take up a lot of space.

I know this is long and CP3S doesn't like that, but one last thought for the day: as the baby progresses, it causes more damage to the mother's body.  Yet we illegalize abortion after a certain point that most pro-choicers agree is acceptable.  All the same rationales apply at this point: the damage to mom, the economic difficulties, the potential for an unwanted child...but now it's wrong to kill that baby.  Why the change of heart?  My point to this is that those other issues don't matter at the end of the day if we acknowledge that we are killing a person.  The defining point really hinges on how we define a person then, and when an unborn human gains its humanity.

The change of heart happens when there is brain activity the fetus begins to think and feel. 

CP3S said:

I honestly don't even think the hard pro-life side takes the unborn baby that seriously. Almost all of you stated that you are okay with abortion in the cases or rape. So, because this human life was created out of the horrible actions of someone else, killing it is justifiable? Just about all of you also stated that when the mother's life is at risk it is also acceptable. If we say an unborn child is a person who deserves all the rights any post-natal human would be granted, how is putting the health and well being of the mother above that of the baby justifiable?

"Sorry, you have every right to live, but in this case you're going to have to die so your mother can live". Before the obvious rebuttal of "Well, if the mother dies, so does the baby", there are so many cases where it is just a precaution that abortion is recommended on account of the mother's health. It is possible the mother and baby could both make it through the gestation period, or that the mother could make it long enough to carry the baby to the point that it is viable to live outside of the womb.

I agree. What darth_ender believes is an "innocent child" is suddenly put to death to save a mother who has already lived her life. That sounds messed up.

Hahaha, I am a nice guy.

Myspleen will be having Open Registrations and Freeleech for the holiday season. So if you haven't gotten an invite and you still want to check out our Star Wars collection (including DarkJedi's and Harmy's recent projects) or our other stuff, have at it.

As I said everything is freeleech which means that anything you download will not go towards your ratio, however all data you seed is counted towards your uploads.

If you have any questions or comments feel free speak up (I'm talking to you, lurkers!)

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

-walkingdork

And on a political rant, I love how conservatives worry about unborn babies so much and yet the second that baby comes out they could give a fuck what happens to it.

"Abortion is immoral! Oh your poor uninsured 6 year old is dying needs an operation? Well, not with my taxes. "

Alexrd said:

walkingdork said:

Now I am 100% pro-choice, specifically women's choice.

But they did have a choice, to have sex or not. If they chose to have sex, why don't they accept the consequences?

That's easy to say as a man, especially in the US where the is big problem with men who don't "accept the consequences" by supporting those kids. And no I don't call sending money to the mother of your children supporting the kids. It's supporting the mother who is doing all the work, physically and emotionally.

Men aren't the ones that have their body destroyed. Men don't have to worry about losing or finding jobs because of pregnancy. Men don't have to drop out of college or high school because the next 9 months of their life is fucked. Men don't have to have their genitals tear and split like a hotdog in a microwave.

Also Men don't have to feel the shame of being a single parent. Teenage and college age boys aren't permanently labeled whores for having kids out of wedlock. Single mom's in this society are something to be pitied or felt sorry for. When my ex-wife and I got divorced she was faced with shame at her local church for being a single mom. However when I have the girls everyone gives me props for stepping up. We're both just trying to be good parents yet we are faced with two very different realities.

As much as things have gotten better, there is still gender inequality. Sure there are laws that are meant to enforce equality but it doesn't change public opinion.

Here's my two cents...

At one point in my life I was pro-life but I at least acknowledged a need for abortion if the pregnancy was due to rape or incest. Now I am 100% pro-choice, specifically women's choice. It's their body, what they decide to do with it is not my concern and I would be an arrogant male to presume that I should have a say or a vote on the subject. Sure if it's my baby stewing in there I might try to influence the decision but who am I to decide for women as a whole?

I have two daughters (3 and 5) and if (pretend) God forbid, they get pregnant as a teenager I would personally pay for their abortion behind their mother's uber Evangelist Christian back. Granted I will be chaining them to the wall of a dungeon afterwards until they are out of college.

I dislike the idea of aborting fetuses however if you got a zygote brewing and you can't afford it or you will be shitty parents, do society a favor and flush that sucker out (yes I'm being intentionally crude).

On a similar subject, I hate hearing stories of people keeping babies with missing brains or similar birth defects alive. I'm sure it must be so hard for the parents, but keeping a baby with no brain activity alive is not humane, it's a god damn science experiment. I feel the same way about adults with no brain activity. Comas are different. If I'm in a coma pump me full of meds and play In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida until I wake up. However if I'm brain dead pull the plug and let my family start the mourning process instead of dragging it on for years.
 

Teeceezy said:

I'd be more than happy to help seed soon, as I am moving house and FINALLY getting an uncapped data plan for my broadband (in New Zealand that is ridiculously uncommon), and I have been interested in a lot of the projects worked on here which are only available through MySpleen (such as dark_jedi's 'Original Trilogy Theatrical Edition' project).

So do you want an invite or are you announcing your potential need for an invite in the future? Check your messages.

Jaitea said:

Could I have an invite?

J

Sent.

Cobra Kai said:

Would love an invite as well - thanks!

sent.

andy1672 said:

any chance of an invite ?

Thanks in advance :)

More than a chance. I have unlimited invites and there's still an open invitation for all OT members (lurkers included). Just ask!

Aphradonis said:

Hello, I'm collecting Star Wars obscura and would like a MySpleen invite so I can download the Ewoks restorations.

sent.

Wisconsin, USA (go Packers)

beep.

didn't I just ask you that?

Darth_Ender. do you start a new thread everyday?