More efficient is very important with the amount of content you’ve planned to upscale. As always, I can’t wait to get some episodes in hand.
I agree with pretty well all your point, RogueLeader.
I know that a lot of people seem to think this episode was a let down due to loss of momentum, but that’s kind of how all of Tolkien is, a repeated pattern of events and quiet recharge transitions to the next event. This episode fit that pattern quite well.
The question remains how or if they will land the season. Will we get a Sauron reveal? A Stranger reveal? A Galadriel full-circle resolution with Elrond or GilGalad?
From a fan-editing perspective, this whole thing is pretty tricky. There’s a lot of detail that was seemingly out there very intentionally, but there are also some baffling transitions and particulars. Some of the issues can easily be solved with slight kind trims, but if you cut some controversial things you’re going to also lose the connected parallelism.
With the idea of a movie edit, I’ve been toying with the idea of moving the entire Dwarf and Elrond story out into what would become movie 2. That would reduce the number of plot threads that the audience must track, keep the focus on Galadriel and the Harfoots, maintain Numenor as the big scenic location, and allow us to bring in the Southlands more organically as Galadriel realizes their importance. Another bonus would be holding back the strange Mithril plotline until we can know more fully where it’s going.
Perhaps even more dramatically, I’m thinking that the volcano stuff could be made more palatable in two ways:
Cut out the tunnel digging while Arondir is a prisoner. Instead, have him brought directly to Adar. This would also remove the question about how his army buddies were captured. When the water flows through the tunnels, we will assume that they were pre-existing, part of an ancient system that was designed to do this.
Cut the whole water and tunnel sequence, so that we aren’t sure what exactly happens when the key is turned. Just have the guy turn the key, the ground shake, and the volcano blow.
As much as I love the dwarf stuff, I think bumping it out of this season might be exactly what is needed to make a cohesive movie version. Focus the first installment on Galadriel and the Harfoots, and after Galadriel discovers the map in the sigil, tie in the Southlands.
In the end, maybe introduce the sickness of the tree and Elrond’s assignment to help Celebrimbor. The hope being that it could be the first major thread of the season 2 (or 2a) movie.
I’d still argue that the Picard series is at least on par with the TNG movies and in many ways it’s better in character development, world building, and raising interesting ideas. That said, the best examples of the 90s shows still blow it out of the water.
This might be impossible, but could the Southlands story be told without the sword/key? Could the battles and tension occur without it, and could the dam be breached without seeing it used?
I’ve edited seasons 1-3 of DSC and 1 and 2 of PIC. I’d love to see your take on this content. I’ll send you a PM.
I am making my way slowly through this series (planning to watch the third episode tonight). So far, I’m enjoying the world (live the good morning hammer guy) and characters, and the time goes fast while watching, but if I didn’t know that I liked Star Wars, Im not sure that I’d prioritize watching more of this. Nothing concrete really happens in each episode.
In episodic TV, every installment should have a beginning, middle, and end, as well as often some type of theme. In serialized TV, those are often stretched over a much longer group of episodes. I understand that Andor is serialized and it’s still just laying groundwork. But even in serialized storytelling, each episode needs to do two things 1) add an important new piece to the big story and 2) provide enough of a hook to get people to tune in next time. So far, I’ve seen very little of either from Andor.
It’s good, and I trust that it’s going somewhere, but it’s not compelling. Even assuming that episode 3 picks up a lot, Im guessing that there will be other parts of the story that slow down like the first two episodes. I don’t love tons of non-stop action, but I am concerned about the ability of individual episodes to be compelling and generate/feed interest.
Im encouraged by the knowledge that these are exactly the type of issue that can be addressed in hindsight by fan editing.
I’m pretty sure that the episode 5 Numenor content could be almost entirely cut without missing a beat. Just imply that there were always three ships going and show the characters in armor boarding them.
The biggest issue I’m seeing in the narrative here is that there is no clear reason for the Trade Federation to do this. It sounds like the Republic is already looking the other way; attacking validates Amidala’s arguments and risks reprisal. Yes, it’s all because of Palpatine, but we need a simple and clear surface rationale.
I’m still enjoying the series. My complaints are still primarily about personal preference with the style of storytelling (too many parallel plot threads). There are lots of things to nitpick, but I also think that very few matter in the grand scheme of the events being depicted. That said, I think that Vladius raises some excellent ideas about different ways that this project could have been approached and is one of the more fully fledged pushbacks I’ve seen.
I’m absolutely loving the amount of breakdowns available each week. The Tolkien Professor’s “Rings and Realms” show on YouTube in particular makes me feel like I’m back in college as an English major studying some of my favorite texts again.
I’d continue to rate it more highly than The Hobbit trilogy but lower than the LOTR trilogy. I’m most interested in seeing what fan-edit versions we get at the end of this season and five years from now, also what a new Fellowship prologue might look like incorporating footage from this series’ portrayal of the forging of the rings and the last alliance.
I want him to be a blue wizard, but I expect that we are getting the story of Gandalf first meeting Hobbits.
I was late seeing episode 3. I think most of the awkward moments (slo-mo horse, warg, and evil plot enacted a thousand years after Morgoth’s fall) could be pretty easily trimmed.
One thing that has been running through my head since the premiere is the question of how these plot lines could be more organically arranged. My first idea was to push the Southlands to the start of episode 2, but now I’m wondering if it would make even more sense to jump there only after Galadriel discovers that the mark is a map and says that the Southlands are in danger.
I’m also wondering if much of Arondir’s story in episode 3 is worth keeping. Yes, it shows the Orcs’ brutality, but nothing is really accomplished or learned. We may be able to go straight from his capture to the initial scene in the trench where the name Adar is first spoken, to him being brought before Adar in episode 4.
I just saw the preview for Tales of the Jedi. I expect that there may be some new footage soon for you to incorporate.
One 3-hour film per season could prove watchable.
I’m also wondering how interconnected all of the story threads will become? If they remain more simultaneous but separate narratives, they could be rearranged as self-contained movies, like the early Marvel films or Star Wars Stories.
I understand the impulse to start editing this and will happily watch it if you do, but I’m also cautious of starting a film-type edit of this series when we have only seen 3 hours out of a projected 50. Are we really planning for a trilogy per season, or 15 films, from this to place alongside The Hobbit and LOTR?
Regardless, yes this could use smoothing and I can’t wait to see how events/scenes/characters can be tweaked into excellence.
My own initial edit idea is to remove the rock throwing and fistfight from the prologue, keeping paradise more paradise-like. I understand the “children of Feanor” interpretation, but I think the core of those early scenes need to be that or paradise, paradise lost, and vengeance.
Getting back on track, I really think that one of the simplest edits would be to cut the bullying from the opening sequence.
You could start the same, even include the other kids not believing that the boat could sail, but then instead of the rock throwing, cut straight to Finrod saying “It was a good boat.” I’d also suggest trimming his line about not always being there, since it foreshadows too much. Instead, go from “you must learn to discern them yourself” to saying that their parents need them to head home.
Small changes; big difference in keeping “paradise” feeling like paradise.
I understand that elements have been changed. What changes in particular do you think make this adaption “no longer Tolkien?”
What specific changes to characters and events do you think make them no longer recognizable?
What changes to themes and values do you see violating Tolkien’s vision?
Also, even if elements have been changed that are problematic, isn’t this precisely the place where we go to work that out? This forum exists to take messes like Rise of Skywalker, dissect it, and remake it into something greater. If we love Tolkien films, shouldn’t we appreciate that Rings of Power is giving us roughly 50 hours of new raw material that we can use for edits, even new edits of the Jackson films?
I was wondering when discussions would start here. I’m enjoying the series so far, though I’m already gathering edit ideas as I watch. (I expect that, by the time the series concludes in five years, there will be a great many edits floating around.)
One of my initial thoughts is to move the start of the Southlands plot into the second episode and more of the Harfoot story into the first. This would create a bit more unity within each episode.
I’m inclined to start recording a fiddling around, but for this material, I’d like to get a newer computer with a higher resolution screen.
FYI - I consider myself a Tolkien fan with above average knowledge, but I’m not a purist. I understand that adaptions will make changes, and some may even be changes for the better. In my mind, an adaption that stays true to Tolkien needs to include the core ideas of eucatastrophe, evil as corruption, all things eventually working together for good, and humble kindness being the truest foundation of heroism.
I also really like this use of a Han death premonition. It adds a lot of layers to Luke’s moment of conflict over Kylo.
Yes to Jawas
I’m not sold on two Death Stars to start with. The second being bigger and badder is enough of a threat. Starkiller would raise lots of questions like why the rebels never went after it or the empire never used it in the years prior to Force Awakens or why anyone is surprised by it.
I’d also highly recommend trying to implement even just one or two of your proposed changes as a proof of concept video. The brainstorming is fun, but you’ll get better feedback if you have something you can point to that shows people you can actually make it.
Any preview clips available? You have a lot of interesting VFX changes that I’d love to see.
I always enjoyed the Jawa scenes just because it was fun to see a Sandcrawler and Jawas actually be impressive opponents, but I also understand why it was originally cut, as it’s incredibly side-questy.
I got it this time; it looks great. Sorry to have bothered everyone.
Is anyone else have issues with the download? Mine keeps failing at just over 9GB. I wanted to make sure it’s just a personal issue.