valinkrai

Ryan McAvoy said:

^ Screen size is just a gimmick? Oh cool thanks for telling me, I'm gonna go trade in my big flatscreen TV for one of these cheaper models...

;-)

But seriously the bigass VueXtreme size screen is another great way to see movies apart from IMAX (Sound is great too). If I forget to pre-book EpVII about a month in advance at IMAX, then VueXtreme will be the next best option.

Still, I believe VueXtreme is 18mx10m, while the biggest IMAX in the UK is 29mx23m (So pretty much twice the size).

Screen size ALONE can be a gimmick, especially for an over inflated price, like IMAX is, especially if you have to drive to a major city. Obviously, screen size is usually better large. I'm just saying Imax seems like a gimmick for half of the movies people say they would rather see it in IMAX than 3D. It's a 5 dollar upgrade that in the case of many movies, gains you rather little over a quality non-IMAX screen.

Hey, it's me. said:

I think the choice should be on offer in equal measure. Star Wars VII for me, is going to be in a proper IMAX cinema in 2D. 

See, this is always confusing to me. Why would it be in IMAX? Isn't that an entirely different aspect ratio if it's true IMAX? Star Wars would be a bit off-putting in a non-anamorphic ratio, one of the reason I love The Clone Wars is they animate in 2.35. And if it's not really necessary to get to 4:3 or whatever Imax is, what's the real point of IMAX? Resolution, screen size? I presume it will be shot in 4k (Maybe 8k, though I don't know of any cameras that do 8k) digital for a number of reasons, so there wouldn't be much to gain resolution-wise, right? At lowest estimates, Imax is the equivalent of 5k if I recall. Which leaves screen size, and I think without the other stuff, it's just as much of a gimmick as 3D. Please, explain this to me, because I'm not understanding why people get all excited about IMAX. (Disclaimer: Part of this is I haven't ever live near enough to an IMAX screen to go for anything other than rare occasions). 

timdiggerm said:

I was being sarcastic. But if it's film you crave, go to an IMAX and see one of their classic documentaries. I mean a real IMAX, not the IMAX-branded garbage at a multiplex.

timdiggerm said:

I only watch films projected onto aged but clean theatrical-sized screens projected from film with decade-authentic bulbs.

 I just got a bit sad, because I realized that I'll probably never see something decently projected on film again unless I go really early in a screening to my local theater, though I think they converted to digital recently, even then it's an awful theater to see stuff in. But I agree with Frink, I usually like 3D, unless it's conversion. Then it's just stupid, either because they didn't frame things for 3D, or they didn't care enough to shoot that way. Not sure what I hope for in Episode VII, though I lean towards 2D, for continuity in viewing experience, especially if they aren't going to ever get around to the 3D rereleases.

Hal 9000 said:

But someone in a theater in 2005 was supposed to see it as a will-be remodeled Taintive IV? Does anyone have the novelization handy, to reference?

I was 12 when RotS came out, and I do remember assuming it to be the Tantive IV, mostly because it was mirroring the opening of ANH with the halls and 3PO. I don't think I realized it would need retrofitting or anything.  The Novelization does reference the Tantive IV, which might have been why I thought it was the Tantive IV. Dang. I miss being 12. Star Wars was so much simpler then.

adywan said:

The ship in ep3 isn't anything like the Tantive IV. If it was indeed supposed to be that ship then the CG modellers did a piss poor job as they look completely different

 

 

 

I tweeted Leland Chee about, because I always loved that symmetry, and have been thinking about continuity a lot recently, and he replied with this: "@trentontaylor A pity to toss aside the Vanguard retrofit retcon, but since Clone Wars used the Classic trilogy model, I saw no choice."

I'm guessing the original logic was Tantive IV was a heavily retrofitted version of the ship we saw in Ep. III, but that changed due to a Clone Wars appearance of one of the two ships. It's been too long since I watched that Clone Wars episode to say.

EDIT: Is there anyway to disable WYSIWYG and fix this post?

I believe the Tantive IV showed up in Clone Wars, and looked like it did in Ep. IV or something, which made the corvette in Ep. III not make sense as the Tantive IV.

emanswfan said:

timdiggerm said:

I was really just hoping for a partial list (not even pictures) of interiors that need recoloring to gray.

Oh, okay I see what you mean.

TPM- federation ship in TPM opening and battle.

      - Coruscant senate

ATOC- Parts of coruscant city (bar interior, certain buildings, etc.)

         - transport ship with Anakin and Padme (maybe)

ROTS- Rebublic and Seperatist ships are gray

        - Grevious/Dooku ship interior

        -insides of Republic starfighters

        -tantive IV matched to ANH

I think that's most of everything.

Strictly speaking, the ship at the end of RotS is the Sundered Heart, because Leland Chee or whoever decided that poetic symatry should be dropped in favor of continuity. I suspect this matters little in terms of color timing though. Ain't that a bitch?

Darth Lucas said:

There was an orange lightsaber toy on sale for a time that got discontinued really quickly.  http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=46306

That's the one. Remembering passing it by several times, hoping one day I'd see a Kit Fisto lightsaber on sale. Maybe one day I'll get that limited edition Force FX one I've seen floating around. Thanks for the link.

AntcuFaalb said:

Neomic said:

Most people associate THX with quality

Most people don't know WTF THX is.

And those who do– myself included, of course –realize that THX is a crock of shit.

The Sony DADC USA Laserdisc Pressing Plant was "THX Certified". We all know how good that turned out...

I've yet to find a copy of the THX Willow LD that doesn't have rot. I have three and they're rotted-to-hell.

What is even need for THX certification on disc? I think it has some relevance in hardware fields and theaters as well as calibraters, but I've never really understand it's relevance on disk and such.

emanswfan said:

valinkrai said:

Why is yellow a good idea and purple isn't? Seems silly to me.

The point of the yellow saber was to still give the old jedi order a special saber color chosen by few.  Technically it only existed in the EU, and was more of a golden color.

 One advantage would be to sell off Dooku as some sort of Rogue jedi, who was actually good friends with Qui-Gon, and had Qui-Gon lived, Qui-Gon may actually have joined Dooku.  I know it's a weird twist, but it's been discussed before by other editors.  I would have also had others have it to show they aren't completely odd out, like I mentioned before.

Now, Mace Windu on the other hand, is stupid.  No one else has a purple lightsaber except for him and he's technically the only black jedi.  I just think of "the color purple" everytime he pulls out his lightsaber.  In other words adds nothing to the story and just makes it further from the OT.

However, it is something I'm sure other editors or even just straight viewers of these might not agree on.  Which is why I said I haven't decided to implement it.

There's even new CGI I could do to replace some stuff (probably Coruscant mostly, and a much stripped down opening battle), but again I'm don't think I want to go overboard on these.  Also, doing new CGI for parts would delay this project atleast a year, maybe two. 

If you do any changes beyond color timing and film grain, I think you should consider making one using them, and one with only the film effects and color timing changes. As someone who's grown used to the purple lightsaber, however pointless, it would be a bit jarring for it to be something else. I still don't see why you would make Dooku yellow though, seeing as it's specifically stated in Episode II he is a full Sith Lord by that time. I do sometimes forget there are no Yellow sabers in G-canon though, I seen to remember seeing an orange lightsaber toy from Hasbro on shelves at KB toys at some point for Ep. II.

Why is yellow a good idea and purple isn't? Seems silly to me.

I'd definitely watch End of Time, given it's a decent story, and important continuity wise, and Name of the Doctor, since it's fairly important continuity wise, and seems to be setting us up for the 50th anniversary special.

Darth Lucas said:

What are you using for the conversion?  It looks far too good to be anything automated.  I know the ins and outs of stereo 3d too and generally rely on Mocha for After Effects which I find works out fairly well.  As for the comment on anaglyph 3d.  I honestly don't understand the hatred for it.  On it's own it does destroy the colors, but it only takes a usually fairly simple color correction to fix it.  Nobody's going to be watching it without the glasses anyways.  Granted, it will never look as good as polarized, but I think anaglyph 3d is perfectly viable for home viewing, and I'm sure the members of the community without a 3d tv would appreciate an anaglyph version of this as well when you get around to it.  If not I could probably do it in After Effects (I did the same thing with a Jurassic Park 3d blu ray rip).  But all that aside, this is a very ambitious project that I will be following with great interest.

I for one will be viewing this in polarized 3D. It's not like polarized 3DTV's are that expensive right now, even if you lose some vertical resolution.  At any rate, I would hope if this works, you would eventually do Revenge of the Sith, as I was quite looking forward to seeing that in 3D, even if I had to sit through AotC to get it. Can't say what I think now, since I'm in the process of moving, and our 3DTV is back at another house, but when I get the chance, I'll let you know. Looking forward to seeing some results from this project.

Gomu69 said:

There's no fair way to indicate what they want since most people that comfortably choose the official release probably aren't informed of the options they can pick from outside of what's commercially available in front of them or don't bother thinking this far into it only looking at the debate as entirely superficial compared to what they get a kick out of.

I can't imagine anyone that would side with the official release after witnessing what we've seen here except for ya know, G.L.

I'm not reading into it too much. I still doubt there would be a dramatic preference to either if there was a Blade Runner style box set release.  Either way, I find it more impressive that Despecialized has more seeds than the GOUT release.

chyron8472 said:

I think this is a good indicator of how much people prefer the original version of Star Wars over any sort of fan edit or Special Edition:

 

 

 

No, that would be a horrible indicator (Comparing it to the Special Edition(s)). A good indication would be if the same was true on an equivalent site that I had heard of before I visited these forums, and that's popular. Like TPB. 

TPB has Despecialized at the very bottom of 2nd page. Still impressive for a fan edit/restoration, but it's not showing there is some magically impressive demand for it over the official release.

But yea, if you exclude the majority of people interested in Star Wars released distributed via P2P methods, and instead focus only on people who are interested non-Special Edition stuff, great indicator. 

Anastasia (1997)

Was watching the DVD after having a long afternoon of talking about musical animated features. Hadn't seen it in a while and the internet wasn't co-operating, so I popped it in. Great film, especially given that I had just read about the actually historic event and knew how inaccurate the film was. I actually remembered a lot of the scenes, better than I usually remember movies.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

valinkrai said:

Anyone know of a list that has the best of each Doctor? I really want to get a better idea of Classic Who, but its been so hit or miss.

Top Five for each:

1st Doctor: 5) An Unearthly Child (first episode only, rest are basically a different story) 4) The Edge of Destruction 3) The Daleks 2) The Dalek Invasion of Earth 1) The War Machines 

2nd Doctor: 5) The Power of the Daleks (reconstruction) 4) The Tomb of the Cybermen 3) The Invasion 2) The Evil of the Daleks (reconstruction) 1) The War Games

3rd Doctor: 5) Terror of the Autons, 4) Death to the Daleks, 3) Spearhead from Space 2) Inferno 1) The Silurians

4th Doctor: 5) The Robots of Death 4) The Brain of Morbius 3) Logopolis 2) City of Death 1) Genesis of the Daleks

5th Doctor: 5) The Five Doctors 4) Resurrection of the Daleks 3) Mawdryn Undead 2) Planet of Fire 1) The Caves of Androzani

6th Doctor: The Two Doctors (not much else from this era holds up)

7th Doctor: 5) Survival 4) Silver Nemesis 3) Battlefield 2) Dragonfire 1) Remembrance of the Daleks

8th Doctor: The TV Movie

---I know you asked for Classic Who, but might as well point out---

9th Doctor: 5) Rose 4) Boom Town 3) Bad Wolf/ The Parting of Ways 2) Dalek 1) The Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances

10th Doctor: 5) The Christmas Invasion 4) Human Nature/ The Family of Blood 3) Army of Ghosts/ Doomsday 2) The Girl in the Fireplace 1) Blink

11th Doctor: 5) Amy's Choice 4) Vincent and the Doctor 3) The Lodger 2) The Eleventh Hour 1) The Girl who Waited

Thanks. Exactly the kind of list I was looking for. I've already gotten caught up on modern Who. Kinda surprised you didn't put Midnight on 10. So many good Tennant episodes though. It and Blink are basically my favorite TV episode of any show ever.

I had not seen Pyramids of Mars. The First Doctor Episodes I saw were the first arc and the first Daleks appearance.

What are some good Classic Who episodes? I was gonna try and watch the all over time, but the first two 1st Doctor Arcs were horribly boring and slow. I watched the Tom Baker Ark in Space one and liked it, but the following story involving egypt and such was horribly boring. Anyone know of a list that has the best of each Doctor? I really want to get a better idea of Classic Who, but its been so hit or miss.

Harmy said:

I'm 1988 too :-)

I haven't seen the SE in the theaters either and I do regret that as well, because even altered, it would have been great to have seen the OT in a theater. Plus for me, it would have been the only opportunity for a long time to come to have seen it in widescreen and in English.

Same here. I think I actually remember staying at a friends house while my family went. My mom didn't think I would be interested at the time. I didn't even see Phantom Menace in theater, definitely remember the hype and advertising though.  I did get to see them all at Celebration V if that counts as seeing them in a theater. 

Hoping one day I will get a chance to go to a screening of the theatrical originals, as that would be quite the treat. Hopefully with Disney in control, they will take the chance and release a quality scan of the originals on Blu-ray (Or dare I dream of them making a deal with a TV manufacturer and releasing a 4k scan).

Harmy said:

valinkrai said:

I don't understand how I would in anyway be unqualified just because I don't care about ILM history when watching Star Wars for fun...

...so I'm just using the crawl. The rest is completely non Star Wars, since save for the use of go-motion, I didn't really think they did anything worth talking about...

See, you've basically answered this question for yourself - it's not about your preferred version, it's the lack of knowledge about the VFX in the original breakthrough version - the crawl is probably the least impressive VFX achievement there is in SW, since that kind of thing was being done since like the 1920s and the technology used to do it was pretty much the same. The real breakthrough achievement in VFX technology was the use of motion control cameras with detailed models and improving the blue screen optical compositing and all that on a very tight schedule, under a very low budget and on an unprecedented number of shots, most of which are either completely replaced by CGI in the SE versions or at least digitally tweaked in some way. And go-motion wasn't used in the original Star Wars film at all btw.

But it seems like your presentation wasn't really about the history of ILM, as much as history of CGI, because the thing is that while ILM definitely is connected with the rise of CGI, it also has a long rich history of optical visual effects before that - and those are not just some obscure beginnings either - those are solid 15 years of amazing work.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not taking a shot at you or anything, I'm really just expressing my sadness over the fact that Lucas' attempt at erasing history seems to be working. May I ask how old you are?

I am 20. Really though, I wish George never changed anything, because as neat as some changes are (I'm very fond of the new Jedi ending music), others are awful, and none are worth the issues among fans that arose from the changes. 

I posted about this in Harmy's topic, but since I'm not really wanting to derail another's thread, I'll just post the Google Docs for my presentation here.

The presentation is mostly based off of an essay I did right as the LucasFilm/Disney acquisition happened.

Original Essay:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YpllegY9X63_aL7urrVgbsZ8EQJTFb3m0dMKtjxWFeU/edit?usp=sharing

Speech Outline:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Mv1PAeXyaX-CLBFtLqWYnvJU2nCpUA60axzHoDJBWo/edit?usp=sharing

Power Point for speech:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1A-M6FfqPfzPUntBoApYDwm1sXlp8B_iKcLYQlbQrhes/edit?usp=sharing

Since you guys probably know a good deal about ILM, if you have any corrections or thoughts, let me know. The speech is supposed to be a 7-9 minute informative.

yoda-sama said:

chyron8472 said:

Okay then. On-topic it is.

So long as I don't get yelled at by Harmy again. That's no fun.

Certainly agree on this point, Harmy is basically one of my new idols and any time I say something that he takes badly, I feel really terrible about it.

But charging through with off-topic for a second anyway, valinkrai is certainly a bit deluded in his thinking, but that is not a slam on him personally, instead it is a long-held fear coming true.  Ever since the second VHS release of the SE came out (that being the first time the SE trilogy dropped the SE and was billed as THE Trilogy) and then those lovely prequels started debuting, the likelihood of the Star Wars we knew and loved being passed on and instilling the same values and nostalgia it did for the generations up until that point, seemed tangibly bleak. With the original versions being officially written off and only their replacements readily available for new generations to experience, the importance and significance of the original accomplishments would diminish, new "fans" would crop up that don't value the integrity of the films, since they're used to them changing regularly and containing silly scenes that undermine the seriousness and charm that frustrated purists were won over by so long ago.  I can only imagine, but someone growing up with the SE I believe might not have the same kind of love and devotion to the series, that when they grow up they'd have an easy time making a clear division that Star Wars was something they only liked as a child (what with the added silly scenes, unneeded tweaks, dated non-groundbreaking effects [CGI], messed up pacing, etc.), not something that affects them beyond that (okay, some people who live perpetually in their parents' basement might have benefited from this, but still) since many of the layers that I've appreciated when watching it at different points in my life have largely been stripped away with all the SE retooling.  It has been cheapened, and that was bound to have deep effects on the future of Star Wars fandom. 

Efforts like those of Harmy are our greatest hope now, with theatrical cuts becoming available at quality acceptable to the increasingly discerning tastes of children that are bombarded with high definition everything, we can try to undo some of the damage and certainly introduce our offspring to the saga the way we feel it should be seen and appreciated.

I will say that to be doing a presentation on ILM and not considering that ALL special effects changes (saying nothing of the other SE alterations) distorts the effort that went into the original, ground-breaking, award-winning effects doesn't speak well to his qualification on this topic.  For better looking for worse, the historical significance of these films is not to be understated, and should be the foremost basis of any comparison.  Rather than (just guessing at one way you may be doing it) having a presentation starting with how great ILM is now and peppering in how they started, it should be approached from all the hurdles they overcame in the beginning and how they evolved (and evolved with) the film industry.

How I prefer to watch Star Wars on my own time, and how I'm going to present it historically are two totally different things. The speech is mostly about breakthroughs in tech and the rise of CGI. The reason I wanted to use the original opening crawl was, if my readings about ILM are correct, created using the Dykstraflex camera system. It would be disingenuous to present the Blu-rays copies while speaking from a historical perspective.

I don't understand how I would in anyway be unqualified just because I don't care about ILM history when watching Star Wars for fun. When I'm giving a speech on ILM history, of course I'm going to go to the trouble of seeking out the original. It's the only sane thing to do. 

stretch009 said:

Harmy said:

valinkrai said:

Hey, I'm normally not one to be interested in the original cuts of Star Wars, being perfectly okay with the Blu-rays myself (Minus that awful new Krayyt call), but your despecialized opening crawl will be nice for my speech on the history of ILM. Just wanted to say thanks for giving me the chance to use a historical version of the opening crawl in HD.

You're welcome :-) Though I must say I don't understand how someone who's interested in the history of ILM can be happy with the BD version of Star Wars, which replaces like 90% of ILMs historically first ever work (academy award winning work, I might add) with CGI, which now has practically no historical value whatsoever.

Wow.  90%?  I didn't realize that it was that bad.

 

I believe it would depend what constitutes replacing their work. Is re compositing changing it in the same way that replacing an X-wing with a CGI version is? I'd say no myself as it's something I firmly believe any ILM employee would have wanted to do if he had the tech at the time, but It sound about right if you consider that as changing it.

I'm of the prequel generation, coming to Star Wars after falling in love with it after getting a VHS of The Phantom Menace. I grew up renting the VHS's of the special editions from the VHS. I don't think I even knew the differences between the versions (Beyond Han shooting first) until they were advertising the "Limited 2006 release", and I picked up the original cut of Empire since I read time wise, the most had changed.  I honestly didn't care much about the differences, and for the most part, I still don't believe they change the films, though I love that you guys here are able to compensate for LucasFilm not giving options to those who don't think the same way as I do.

Personally, I'd like a copy of the original cuts, but not enough to deter me from purchasing Blu-rays when my DVDs have long since been scratched. Plus, the Blu-rays got me interested in at least seeing the historical cuts at least once, even if I was okay with changes myself. Unfortunately, I never figured out how to download Harmy's cuts, save for whatever is available through torrents, which I'm getting now, I just used the YouTube video of the Harmy opening crawl, but it should suffice, seeing as I will be presenting at 1024x768 anyway.

Hey, I'm normally not one to be interested in the original cuts of Star Wars, being perfectly okay with the Blu-rays myself (Minus that awful new Krayyt call), but your despecialized opening crawl will be nice for my speech on the history of ILM. Just wanted to say thanks for giving me the chance to use a historical version of the opening crawl in HD.