haljordan28 said:
I disagree. THe dialogue between yoda and luke in empire is poetic in my eyes and some of the best dialogue ever written in a fantasy/sc-fi film. It is philosophical and enlightening.
Some of the dialogue in episode 5 goes over peoples head and they do not truly understand the philosophy behind it.
Luke - 'What's in there?"
Yoda - 'Only what you take with you"
That is brilliant. Many people think yoda just means if luke takes a blaster in there that means he has a blaster but what yoda is saying is spiritual and philosophical. He tells luke he does not need his weapons but luke takes them anyways and he has fear and self doubt and it is that self doubt and fear that luke takes in with him and that is why when he chops off vaders head he sees his own face. The force is telling Luke that if he were to fight vader that day it is his head that would be choped off and that he is not ready because he still has self doubt and no confidence.
All the lines between luke and yoda in episode 5 are brilliant and they mean something if you can read between the lines. There is not one instance in the PT films where jedi master and student are training and there is memorable dialogue. Not one.
When Luke fails to raise the x-wing and yoda gives luke that speech when luke sits down is some of the best dialogue I have heard in any film period.
"Size matters not. Look at m, judge me by my size do you? and well you should not..for my allie is the force and a powerful allie it is. Life creates it, makes it grow.its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminius beings are we not this crude matter."
I have been drunk before and have cried at some of the scenes in episode 5. I know that sounds gay but hey I was drunk. Bottom line is episode 5 is pure brilliance.
ANother film that comes to mind with dialouge that is spoken in riddles of phillosophy is wrath of khan. The underlining story arc of that film is kirks depression about growing old. SPock gives krik a book for his birthday and kirk reads the line when spck gives it to him and it says "it was the best of times , it was the worst of times" Kirk ask spock if he is trying to give him a message and spock says no. When spock is paged to report to the enterprise kirk ask him where he is going and spock says the enterprise and he ask kirk where he is off to and kirk looks at the floor with a sad expression and mumbles "home" and walks off. Kirk was the only man to ever pass the kobyashi maru test and he did it by cheating becaseu it is a non win scenario test and at the end of the movie spock gives his life so that the crew could live and he admits to kirk before he dies that he never took the kobyashi mru test until then and ask kirk what did he think of his solution. He had to give his own life to beat the no win scenario and only then minutes later did kirk understand the meaning of spocks book for his birthday. He just lost his bestfriend and left the funeral and mcoy ask him how he feels and he responds by saying he feels young. through out the entire film kirk is sad and depressed cause he feels old and only till his best friend dies does he understand spocks message and he feels young again. This sounds silly but if you get a chance to watch the film any time soon watch it with all these things in mind. it really changes the film. I didn't notice them either till i listened tio my brothers william shatner bio tape that shatner made and he explaisn all this.
but back to star wars episode 5 is on par with Shakespeare in my eyes. Shakespeare in space. It is at least the closest thing you are going to get and the PT films had even more potential to reach that level than the OT did because there was so much going on to build on and build up to. TH rise of a hero and great jedi who is admired and loved who tragicly is seducded through no fault of his own and falls from grace. Not because he wanted power not ebcause he wanted to save his wife not because of anything selfish but because he was seduced. That is/was suppose to be the great tragedy of it all. Everything anakin does in the PT films is done so out of being selfish. The flaws of those three films are so plain and in yuor face its unreal yet so many ppl act as if they are not there or just sweep them under the carpet for some reason.
That is brilliant. Many people think yoda just means if luke takes a blaster in there that means he has a blaster but what yoda is saying is spiritual and philosophical. He tells luke he does not need his weapons but luke takes them anyways and he has fear and self doubt and it is that self doubt and fear that luke takes in with him and that is why when he chops off vaders head he sees his own face. The force is telling Luke that if he were to fight vader that day it is his head that would be choped off and that he is not ready because he still has self doubt and no confidence.
Really? I've always thought what he takes with him is his "dark side" (which is never established or hinted at anywhere else in the story save for the ending - which is a demerit in my eyes), and seeing his own face in Vader's mask meant that he could BECOME LIKE Vader, e.g. after striking him down and "taking his place" - you know, what happened.
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
If the vision had wanted to show him that he's too trembling and uncertain to win a fight, wouldn't it have played out a bit differently? Like Luke's head getting chopped off? Basically, according to your interpretation, trembling Luke strikes down his trembling self, to show that the other trembling self is trembling and therefore vulnerable... what? But hey, you know, visions don't care about plot holes as long as the message comes across, right?! :D
Nah, going with the other, obvious one.
"Size matters not. Look at m, judge me by my size do you? and well you should not..for my allie is the force and a powerful allie it is. Life creates it, makes it grow.its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminius beings are we not this crude matter."
I have been drunk before and have cried at some of the scenes in episode 5. I know that sounds gay but hey I was drunk. Bottom line is episode 5 is pure brilliance.
So what? I've "cried" at SOAD's "Holy Mountains", or Radiohead's "Airbag", that doesn't mean those songs can compare to any classical masterpiece in terms of composition and complexity.
Again, take the lines above, then put them into context of the rest of the movie's dialogue, and compare the LANGUAGE to any of those "classical works" listed. There is no comparison, that stuff is on a whole other level.
The flaws of those three films are so plain and in yuor face its unreal yet so many ppl act as if they are not there or just sweep them under the carpet for some reason.
We all agree the PT sucks, what does that have to do with anything?
Some people say Metallica's "St. Anger" sucks - that doesn't elevate "Kill 'Em All" (my favorite of them all) to Alkan, or "the closest we'll ever get".
Why not just appreciate SW for the awesome piece of pop culture it is, instead of trying to sell it as on par with some uber complex literary classic?
The Han and Leia exchanges in ESB are awesome, but are they really better than any number of other "bickering love/hate leads" from other movies? The Luke/Force storyline aside, the dialogue and plot in these films is basically the one of a really good, fun adventure movie. Nothing pretentious. Nothing sophisticated.
