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twooffour

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8-Jan-2011
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8-Oct-2011
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1,665

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Post
#514813
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

Mrebo said:

twooffour said:

Mrebo said:

 

twooffour said:
Making a prediction that if I let go of my pencil, it'll drop to the floor, is a fact;

A prediction is not a fact. And that's a fact, not my opinion. But let us not take another 7 pages to fail to convince you on this point.

I'm not sure which terms scientists, or epistemologists use in this context, but yes, in everyday speech, the "fact" that if you jump out of the 9th floor, you'll fall to the ground, and "might" get a headache, is, indeed, a "fact".

Or at the very least a "certainty", which is what this is all about anyway, isn't it?

Surely you meant ornithologists. But don't ask me about what the fancy scientists say, you're the guy who said:

Yea, sure a pain in the ass to find out that the guy you're trying to spoonfeed with basic, common definitions, actually knows more about them than you do (about those basic, common definitions).

Now if you're asking me for my prediction, it is mighty likely the pencil and leaping man will fall. I assume nobody will be catching them. I assume there will not be a great gust of wind that would carry them to safety. And of course I assume that there is gravity. I have to assume that absolutely nothing intervenes between the pencil/man and gravity. And if we can make such broad assumptions, then any number of probable or even potential events become "facts," but it's all done by sophistry. Now if you're saying it is a fact that gravity will exert force on the pencil, then yes. But you went further than saying gravity exists. It is not a fact that the pencil or man will fall to the ground at all. Just highly likely.

I am serious about not wanting to take 7 more pages to fail to convince you.

That, my friend, is a paragon, a PARAGON, of worthless intellectual masturbation and pointless smartassery.
You shouldn't have said "sophistry" in this post.

Didn't I just say "in everyday conversation"? Do you really think it's necessary to point out that the "certainty" is gravity working, not the object falling to the floor? Like, Chelios from Crank falls, but he survives!
Do you really think when people discuss jumping from a building, they'll find it necessary to point out that they're talking about jumping from a building on Earth, not in space? (Now you're gonna come up with the retarded schizophrenic who wants to jump, and doesn't get that.)

Don't you realize that when people say "if you jump from the 10th floor, you're fucking dead or injured, and that's a fact", they ALSO INCLUDE "in case an eagle or sudden tornado doesn't intervene in your trajectory and smoothly lands you on the grass on top of a nice lady" in their reasoning, but just don't mention it because it's FUCKING STUPID?

What would you think of a guy who'd respond "but that's just your opinion, a dove might fly by" to that, and this while being COMPLETELY SERIOUS? Proceeding to go towards the open window?
Now we all know what you'd think, but you wouldn't want to say it aloud, otherwise he'd probably consider you an arrogant jerk who passes his "opinions about sky-high probabilities" as "facts".



Now when you (or RedFive, or whoever) say I state my opinions as facts, I honestly don't know which kind of opinions, or "facts", you're referring to, or in which instances, but I have all reason to believe that something might've gotten mixed up there, because the only basis I've seen for those accusations would be laconic one-liners like "now you're just wrong" - and it doesn't take something to be a "fact", much less to YOUR astronomic space standards, to be treated as "correct" in relation to something that is, for all intents and purposes, "wrong".

So when I do the nerdy, technical term deconstruction thing of the word "opinion", I have all the reasons in the world to do that.
You're basically just fapping around, after saying you definitely weren't going to.

Post
#514790
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

Mrebo said:

 

twooffour said:
Making a prediction that if I let go of my pencil, it'll drop to the floor, is a fact;

A prediction is not a fact. And that's a fact, not my opinion. But let us not take another 7 pages to fail to convince you on this point.

I'm not sure which terms scientists, or epistemologists use in this context, but yes, in everyday speech, the "fact" that if you jump out of the 9th floor, you'll fall to the ground, and "might" get a headache, is, indeed, a "fact".

Or at the very least a "certainty", which is what this is all about anyway, isn't it?

Post
#514787
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

Gaffer Tape said:

Okay, I do want to start out by saying that twooffour's last post in the politics thread was actually on-topic, relatively well-constructed, and wasn't the least bit insulting, condescending, or arrogant.  I have no problem calling him out when it's necessary, but there's really no reason to go after his posts when he's actually behaving like a decent poster.  In my opinion, it just devalues the criticisms that he actually deserves.

But all that said, I have to cast my ballot for twooffour.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, but as it seems, I've been talking to a brickwall in my last response to you.

Why did you even ask?
I challenged you to provide a REASON for me to think that I "deserve" this criticism, and what do I get? Some flabby "vote". Anyone can vote, much fewer can justify their votes.


So basically, as far as I'm concerned at this stage, all your "criticisms" are just hot air and entirely worthless, and I have no reason to take any of them seriously.

Thanks for providing the second worthless vote, after the first one :D

Post
#514784
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

It's a sliding scale, basically.

At one end you've got unsupported crankery at its worst.

Somewhere inbetween you have opinions that can go from stupid, to considerable, to very well-supported and almost inarguable. Those opinions can and SHOULD be backed up, and can be stupid or smart, right or wrong, for all intents and purposes.

At the other, proven, backed-up facts (even though even those have different degrees of certainty; like the validity of a paper, or statistic).

Not sure whether you can call logical absolutes "facts", but the rules of logic (like why all the fallacies are fallacies) are pretty much up there as certainties, as well.
So if someone makes a clear logical fallacy in their reasoning, they can be called "wrong" even if they weren't talking about any physical facts supported by statistics or papers.

Basically, an opinion CAN be "promoted" to a fact, or rather, "pretty damn certain knowledge", it just needs good evidence.
Making a prediction that if I let go of my pencil, it'll drop to the floor, is a fact; weather or medical predictions are "probability statements", or professional opinions, and some shaky, disputable suggestion how to improve one's finances, an opinion.

So that's it in a nutshell.
Obviously, none of that applies to the second main meaning of "opinion" (also in that same dictionary), which is basically personal taste, and can't ever become a "fact".
We may all share similar patterns of perception, to the point that someone can be reasonably called "blind" for not perceiving some kind of beauty - because they probably would have the potential to perceive it just like the other person - but in the end, a sunset isn't "beautiful" except in the mind - it just is.

That's the kind of "opinion" that needs no "backing up", cos it's a "fucking opinion", and can't become an objective fact by definition.

Post
#514775
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

TV's Frink said:

Ok, it's time for everyone reading this thread to choose a side. Is the problem twooffour, or everyone else? NO FENCE SITTING.

I will keep score.

I vote for twooffour.

CURRENT SCORE:

twooffour - 1 (Frink)
everyone else - 0

Truth isn't decided by popular voting, but feel free if that makes you feel better.


EDIT: I see how now you're obviously taking this nonsense into other threads where I'm posting, as well.
So that would be the first vote, and it's already as self-contradictory and hypocritical as it possible gets.

But yea, whatever floats your boat.

Post
#514758
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

RedFive said:

twooffour said:

Well I'm still not sure where "reasonably backed up opinions" fit in, so there's only so much I can take from that one.

Opinions.  It fits in with the opinions.

 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion :

–noun

1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

 

:)


Regardless of the logic involved, a fact is a fact and an opinion is an opinion. You can arrive at an opinion via logic, but it is still an opinion.


:D

Post
#514756
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

Ziggy Stardust said:

Dude, shut up.

That's one.

This style of posting is the number one reason why boards have an ignore function.
I like the irony of this.

__
I also like how this single post is probably much "ruder" than anything I've ever posted on this board. (Aside from calling Moth3r a "dunce". Except even that wasn't as bad. Except I didn't even call him a dunce, I just asked whether I could say the word. Except of course with the implication that he was one. But that was then.)

Post
#514753
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

Ziggy Stardust said:

twooffour said:

 

Even explaining the difference between opinion and fact to twooffour becomes a tortured exercise.


Blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah (blah blah blah blah blah)

Blah blah blah blah blah blah "blah", blah blah blah blah. :)




This perfectly illustrates your manner of argumentation in which you absolutely misread and misconstrue everything (while being rude).


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah "blah vs blah" blah blah, blah blah blah?



Has my tone been "boring"?


Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah.





Blah blah blah blah, blah blah (Youtube Link of something shitty)

 

^ Everything twooffour has ever said, made into a single post.

I see what you did there.

 

Post
#514748
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

RedFive said:

Jesus dude, just shut up.

I was talking to Mrebo, in his own thread.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't really give a crap about anything you say to me, as long you haven't provided a single example of me "confusing opinions with facts".
You basically derailed this thread by posting that flawed google graphic, so you might want to provide some justification for that after 4 pages of nothing, and quit telling people to "shut up" in the meantime.

Thanks.

Post
#514737
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

Gaffer Tape said:

twooffour said:

Gaffer Tape said:

Yeah, geez, Frink.  Haven't you learned by now that if you or anybody or anything or any idea ever has any kind of conflict or problem or disagreement with twooffour, the problem is never him, it's you.  Always, always, always, always you.  Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever him.  Geez, it's SO OBVIOUS! 

Wherever you got that idea from, Gaff.

Speaking of unintentional irony (once more, duh), here's a question:
You're having a debate with somebody, and your opponent bluntly tells you that you're wrong.
Which is the more pleasant thought, that he just happens to treat you this way because of the specifics of the discussion, or that he treats everyone like this, independent of the specifics, at all times?

Which one rather conveniently excludes the possibility (in your mind) that the "problem" may, at least partially, be on your part?

Yep, you're right.  It is "easier" to believe the person is just always like that, regardless of the situation.  But considering that pretty much everyone who has weighed in in this thread has come to the exact same conclusion, independently, through individual conversations with you... doesn't that tend to make you wonder if maybe, just maybe, that at least some of the problem lies with you?  Or are you the one who would rather take the more pleasant thought?

Well, some fault certainly lies with me, as I often tend to play up the "dismissive jerk" schtick on purpose (in tone, not in content).
It's a bit more fun to put down a post in this manner, rather than "I respect your opinion, but here's mine" style. Having that said, I don't do that if I think there is a legitimate point (or opinion) to it.

I also tend to "get involved" in arguments against something stupid (in my mind, but then again, who else's) more often, because if I see people discuss something that's clearly two heads above me, I usually tend to shut up and listen.


Other than that, no, I'm afraid no.
I can certainly suspect something to be wrong with myself, if 5 people at the same time tell me that I'm being way too arrogant.
But a suspicion has to stand up to scrutiny, and that's where it fails. It's all about the specifics.


See, when you're arguing with someone, there are some rather reliable indicators for having the high ground (in the given situation). Things like:
-the other dude declaring to not read, or only skip, your posts (as CP did).
-the other dude blatantly ignoring, or going over something you've written (more than once, even)
-the other dude not getting some logical conclusion, statement, or irony. You have to be able to explain how. And he unable to retort.
-the other dude asking you to explain something that you've explained to him 5 times on the same page.
-the other dude not responding to anything you say, but rather commenting your post with some worthless remark.

So imagine you're in a forum, having some heated discussion against a handful of complete idiots (I mean, that's in that imaginary scenario; not decent people like here), employing each example from the list above.
You point them out, repeatedly, and consistently, but you can't get through to them.
Would YOU start doubting your sanity, and concede being a pompous jerk among wisemen, just because they all agree?



Now, you might say this is a scenario straight from Idiocracy, and can't possible happen in real life.
Okay, I'll make this real easy for you, then: IMAGINE BEING ON THEFORCE.NET. Need I say more?

Let's see, CP repeatedly admitted to be just trolling me for more "hilarious quotes", I'm called a pompous ass while CP gets away with doing it first (page 1 of this thread), Frink says stuff like "I stopped reading after you said you liked the Jabba scene" and then quotes my response as an example of my "bad attitude", and RedFive wants to accuse me of confusing fact with opinion without providing a single example.
Then I apparently "argue against the dictionary" by quoting the dictionary.

With you, I think I found it pretty funny how you thought I was insisting on those Asian accents being "offensive", while all I was saying is that they were hard to do without "catching one's eye", as opposed to everyone talking the audience's language. Among other things.
So what am I supposed to think when someone just can't be bothered to look at my post, and then gets offended when I point that out?



Give me ONE reason to think it's somehow all on me. Just ONE.

Post
#514722
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

TV's Frink said:

twooffour said:

Gaffer Tape said:

Yeah, geez, Frink.  Haven't you learned by now that if you or anybody or anything or any idea ever has any kind of conflict or problem or disagreement with twooffour, the problem is never him, it's you.  Always, always, always, always you.  Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever him.  Geez, it's SO OBVIOUS! 

I'M STILL TRYING TO WIN THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Was that supposed to be somehow biting? Sharp? Humorous?

Oh, like, I'm now sooo ashamed for replying to this laughable accusation in such a way, I now see I shouldn't try to win the internet so much, oh no i hate myself so much crycrycrycry...
I mean, whatever.

Post
#514717
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

Gaffer Tape said:

Yeah, geez, Frink.  Haven't you learned by now that if you or anybody or anything or any idea ever has any kind of conflict or problem or disagreement with twooffour, the problem is never him, it's you.  Always, always, always, always you.  Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever him.  Geez, it's SO OBVIOUS! 

Wherever you got that idea from, Gaff.

Speaking of unintentional irony (once more, duh), here's a question:
You're having a debate with somebody, and your opponent bluntly tells you that you're wrong.
Which is the more pleasant thought, that he just happens to treat you this way because of the specifics of the discussion, or that he treats everyone like this, independent of the specifics, at all times?

Which one rather conveniently excludes the possibility (in your mind) that the "problem" may, at least partially, be on your part?


So let's say you witness the same behavior from that person in some other instances.
Does it follow from that in any way, that this behavior can't possibly stem from the specifics, too? Can you even tell without looking into it?


It's amazing how accusing someone else of exaggerated arrogance, may actually be a display of fantastic arrogance itself.
A bit like some "humble" Christians calling out those "proud scientists" while themselves claiming to know the answers to all important questions (unlike the scientists).
Or supporters of pseudoscience or paranormal claims claiming the others to just "dismiss them out of hand", because then they couldn't possibly be dismissed for holding no water.

Ah, delicious irony is delicious.

Post
#514706
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

TV's Frink said:

Gaff, let me tell you something.  I hate myself sooooo much now that twooffour has shown me the error of my ways.  I just hope someday I can learn to be as correct and as hilarious as he is.

I just found it ironic how you complained about me not making you laugh anymore, right after a sarcasm joke fail on your part :D
That's all.

Oh, and gotta love the unintentional irony of someone saying the right thing in sarcasm mode :D
Wanted to say that, too.

Post
#514681
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

TV's Frink said:

You know, there was like a five minute stretch a few days ago where twooffour made me laugh twice.  And for one brief moment, I "almost" liked him.

But come on, ain't that Serj gif pretty cute? :)

That day seems like ages ago.

Yea, it was a day when you were still receptive to irony.
That day may come back, but you'll have to let it.

Post
#514679
Topic
When Remakes are a Bad Idea
Time

Even explaining the difference between opinion and fact to twooffour becomes a tortured exercise.


Yea, sure a pain in the ass to find out that the guy you're trying to spoonfeed with basic, common definitions, actually knows more about them than you do (about those basic, common definitions).

When you've got it through your head that "opinion" can mean different things to begin with, you can start acting all cocky again. ;)




This perfectly illustrates your manner of argumentation in which you absolutely misread and misconstrue everything (while being rude).


Well I can't remember every little point from our exchange, but at the example of the "edit vs. remake" analogy, would you say I misconstrued you as comparing song covers to fan edits?



Has my tone been "boring"?


A bit maybe - it was a snark remark.

I have nothing against civility, but yea, when someone goes out of their way to point out how wrong and inappropriate it was of someone else to say "that's false!" (and then, and then "BOOYAH, now I said that, so do you see now how inadequate that was? see, I'm not really acting this way, it was just an example." - which was probably the lamest "take that" I've read in a long time), while meticulously trying not to offend anybody... it does become a bit ludicrous, eyeroll-inducing, and invokes an image of a boring, conservative grandpa lecturing people about the "proper manners". Either that, or Mr T.





So in that light, I was a bit concerned that you had taken that remark at face value. Thanks for clearing up :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZjkHUrEuHc#t=370



Post
#514661
Topic
Is Part 4 of anything ever good??
Time

According to TV Tropes (probably not just, but that's where I read it), there was some conflict between Whedon, who wanted a camp farce, and the studio, who wanted a serious horror movie, so it sort of became a mess.

But I haven't seen it myself :)



Harry Potter 4 was pretty damn good, although probably not as compact as the previous one.
The 5th was somewhat of a mess, though...

Plinkett's Nemesis review is awesome - but then again, so is everything else by him, so what the heck...