timdiggerm

Yub nub is okay, but I can't stand "CELEBRATE THE LOVE / CELEBRATE THE LIGHT / CELEBRATE THE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE"

Yeah, I really do like the 97 or 04 versions of the ROTJ ending.

<p>You don't need the knighting scene at all. Anakin's dead, Palpy controls the galaxy. Credits. Opening Scroll of ANH introduced Darth Vader and BOOM there is the new bad guy. Obi-wan blames Vader for Ani's death and the viewer sees Obi lying to set Luke up to want to take out Vader - which, given Yoda's reaction to the news of Luke learning the truth, seems like a reasonable guess at their plan.</p>
<p>I do like keeping in delivering the babies to Alderaan and Tatooine, so that we know who Luke is when we see him. The bro-sis reveal in ROTJ is not that great, is it?</p>

doubleofive said:

 

Leonardo said:

He could read the phone book, and I'd listen.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

 

Wrell yer seeh, sum peepul jus fine dit ennertainin i guess

Warbler said:

Akwat, are you sure NBC wasn't broadcasting game of one of the other channels it has be using during the Olympics?

Akwat said:

their online streaming site requires you to have cable service, which I don't.

He's only using broadcast TV, which means he only has the one channel, not the extra ones (MSNBC, etc).

Star Wars quote...

Would the time travel elements of the story allow them to write-off the existing X-Men films (excluding First Class, obviously) as alternate universe, ala Trek?

People have noted this, but others have explained it away. I don't recall how.

Yeah, I don't see any meaningful difference there.

<p>Yeah, I dunno what's going on with the editor.</p>
<p>That being said, if we're talking about ROTJ Wishlist (which...we are), I'd put back in Moff J's later scenes.</p>

<p>Because the scene on the shores of the river is pretty good. Or, at least, it's pretty good for the PT.</p>

<blockquote>
<p><strong>Monroville</strong> said:</p>
<p>I <em>still</em> think that you could just cut out Vader's arrival in the beginning of <strong>JEDI</strong> and just start with C3P0 and R2 walking up to Jabba's palace, and leave the reveal of the Death Star 2 when the Emperor arrives.&nbsp; Vader's arrival to the DS2 adds nothing and is redundant, as we're reintroduced to the DS2 with the Emperor.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Disagree. Vader's arrival and conversation with Moff J sets up the ominous news that "The Emperor is coming here?!". The fear in J's voice, followed by his immediate, trembling resolve to redouble his efforts, tell the viewer a <em>lot</em> about the Emperor.</p>

<p>What if it's okay for everyone to be tan in this movie?</p>

I still don't see why they can't make sequels with different actors, where Bruce returns to Gotham and reunites with Robin. Seems obvious to me.

How are you accomplishing this? Does it mean you'll be able to release audio tracks with all of Anakin's dialogue silenced, for other actors to give it a try?

If Batman went into politics, I hope his first act as President would be to make laws forcing Ridley Scott to make Prometheus make sense!

So, I've read that a short film (now unfortunately lost?) was shown in front of ESB in 1980. What else would have been shown? If you saw Star Wars in 1977, ESB in 80 or ROTJ in 83, what was shown before the film? I assume trailers, but I'd like to know which.

Oh man. I missed that.

Welp, I feel dumb now.

Harmy said:

Huh?

Sorry, I was needlessly obtuse, probably because I deal with computers all day.

When you have 10 kilobytes, you don't have 10,000 bytes. You have 10*1024 bytes. Because 1024 is a power of 2, and that's binary and that's how computers work. So 2K is gonna be a multiple of 2...because computers. It doesn't really need to be that way, you could obviously make 2000 the standard if you wanted...but old ways die hard. It's probably that the cost of the difference between 2000 and 2K is minimal or 0, so why not extra pixels.

Ah, but you forget: Computers.

Yeah, that's the dummy that they used for the pyrotechnics of his death. Its visible for ~1 frame intact and looks, as you can see, a bit funny.

And yeah, these do seem over sharpened.

lurker77 said:

Second, film has infinite resolution.

Oh really?

Information on film goes down to the atomic level.

Oh, so not really. Cool.

Warbler said:

if he intends to do that, why'd he make it look like Batman is dead?   No,  it is clear that Bruce intends to give up Batman forever and that is not the Bruce Wayne we know and love.

I'm not even saying that Bruce, when choosing to fake his death, intends to return as Batman. Bruce intends to be done with it...but that doesn't mean that in a few years, he won't get that itch and come back. Nolan leaves the door open for either possibility.

it was clear in Begins that he is dead.

He was dead the same way Ra's al Ghul is ever dead. Yes, we last saw him a in fiery train crash. Does that mean that members of the League didn't extract his body and plop it into the nearest Lazarus pit? The fact that we never saw his corpse has left this open since Begins came out, and Ra's appearance in Rises only continues this.

nothing, my point is there is no way a Bruce would go away with a criminal,  especially one that set him up with Bane and is partly responsible for all the death and destruction he caused.

She set Batman up to get his ass kicked by Bane.

Like I said, she turned around, changed sides, redeemed herself, etc. It's character development.

But is Robin really as good a protector as Batman?

Bruce seems to think so, enough to restore the signal. Heck, given that he's not insane with grief and knows how to handle emotions, maybe he'll be better in some ways. Until the end of this film, Bruce is a deeply flawed guy with serious problems (see: 8 years as a recluse).

The following post is made of SPOILERS. I don't even know why you'd read this thread anymore if you didn't want to read SPOILERS. In particular, these are SPOILERS about the film's ending.

Warbler said:

I think Bane's mask hindered too much his ability to emote.

True, although it also imbued him with a certain level of creepy. Early in the film, his eyes are totally emotionless but his voice is great. Later in the film, even his eyes start to show things.

I also felt let down by the fights between Bane and Batman.   I wanted the climax of this movie to be an epic knock down drag out  fight to the death between Bane and Batman.   The fights weren't bad, but they could have been better.

They were indeed just two big guys punching each other. I can't think of a different way to do it, though, given that we have two big guys and they gotta punch.

I am appalled with what they did to Alfred in this movie.    Having him all of the sudden wish Wayne had not come back in Batman Begins and having him want Wayne to stop being Batman feels shoved in.   Neither movie showed any indication that Alfred felt anything close to this way and yet he supposedly felt this way the whole time.

I didn't have this issue at all. It's been pretty well established that Alfred wants Bruce to be a normal person, well recovered from the death of his loved ones and no longer overcome with grief. When he talks about having hoped Bruce wouldn't come back, it's only in the context of Bruce not coming back because he's found a new, good life somewhere else. When he doesn't want Bruce to be Batman, it's because he thinks Bruce will die as Batman. While the details like that haven't been spoken by Alfred previously, the motivation behind them was certainly present.

I liked the John Blake character,  but I didn't like the Robin thing.   For one thing, Robin wasn't Robin's real name.  His real name was Dick Grayson.   Also Robin is supposed to be the boy wonder.   In the movie he is a grown man.   I also don't buy how he knows that Bruce was Batman.  Finally Robin is Batman's assistant, not his replacement.

In terms of Batman continuity, this is certainly the only really awful thing in the film. But goodness, I'm impressed enough that Nolan put anything remotely related to Robin in one of his movies. It's a pretty good way for Robin to exist without Bruce essentially kidnapping and conscripting a child into service.

And the brings us to the thing I hate most about this movie.    Bruce Wayne leaving Gotham with Catwoman.   That is so wrong on so many fronts.   Bruce Wayne would never stop fighting crime in Gotham, you'd have to kill him or disable him permanently to stop from crime fighting.

Remember what Alfred said, early in the film, about how he hoped that Bruce would find peace. Bruce being at the cafe means that that's happened.

And I certainly can't see him leaving Gotham in the condition it after Bane and Talia were defeated.  Gotham was still a mess and criminals were still on the loose and police power was limited at best.  No way he'd leave it in that condition when Gotham still needed him.

This is exactly why he gave Robin the Batcave. Also, notice the part where he restored the Batsignal. He knows Gotham still needs a protector, and he didn't leave it protector-less.

And to go away with the Catwoman???  She is a criminal!  She set him up to get his ass beaten by Bane! She is partly responsible for all the death and destruction that he caused.   Also she is a thief, like the guy that murdered his parents!

No, there's more to her than that.

I don't really think that I need to say much more than that about her. She redeemed herself and proved which side she's on when she blew open the tunnel and then came back instead of escaping.

I understand that they wanted to end the Batman series here, but they could have done it without this stupid ending.   They could have killed him off, exactly as they apparently had.   Having him die to save the city he loved would have been an excellent way to end the thing.    Mind you, I am not saying the movie is bad, it just has flaws.   But it still kept me entertained for two hours, so I would still say it is worth seeing. 

The best thing about this movie is where they leave everyone at the end. You've made a lot of assumptions about where people have to go in life after this film, assumptions which, while possible, are not necessary.

Bruce can, now that he's a bit more sane and in control, return to being Batman when he chooses. Publicly, he's assumed dead in the Bane revolution, but he can return to Gotham with a story about not being on the island when the bridges blew and then hiding out in the rest of the world for awhile. Heck, maybe he'll even become a good businessman now and restore Wayne Industries. Alfred would certainly rejoin a stabler Bruce, when the time came.

And who's to say that Selina would stay clean forever? The Catwoman/Batman relationship has always been tumultuous, and it really isn't hard to imagine her going back to thievery, if you really want to enter into the endless-conflict state of comic books.

One of my favorite parts is how ambiguous they've made Ra's al Ghul's status. Is he alive or dead? Was Bruce hallucinating, or did he slip in and out of consciousness just long enough to enjoy a short visit from his former mentor? Nolan doesn't tell us, which allows him to avoid fantastical elements like Lazarus Pits without actually making al Ghul's fate definitive. At the end of Nolan's trilogy, all of Batman's classic villains are potentially alive and useable, except for Two-Face (a real loss, unfortunately, but necessary) and Bane.

Other than the whole Dick Grayson thing, the film leaves its world in a very good state. You can either imagine that this is the end of Bruce as Batman, it's all over... or things could return to a more familiar state. It's beautifully open ended, but not in a way that demands sequels.