thxita

and this George Lucas debut doesn't seems to be that important in many eyes these days

I think this film has never been important to most of the people anyway so we will act accordingly and move ourselves to save it, as best as we can. I gave my contribution for what I could do (subtitle and, of course, sharing my italian version... I'm still hunting for an original tape to see if they all had that beginning and possibly get an even higher quality version... well as high as a VHS can be).

I was hit by this film since I first saw it and in my opinion (I'm sure several people will agree with me) it's a piece of art and a masterpiece which needs to be preserved from the dark side of the digital restoring.

Since we will never collect enough signatures to ask Lucasfilm for an original release like it happened for Star Wars, we will have to do it ourselves, no matter how few are interested into the film.

Although I have near-zero technical skills and I cannot contribuite directly into the creation of this DVD I appreciate imensely the effort you two are putting into it, no matter how amateur it could be.

I'm quite excited about this project, I suppose it will have plenty of pictures too then (?).

Sorry for the little off topic but has anyone ever seen this lobby card? I don't remember the prisoner drawing on the floor (?)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lobby-Card-1970-THX-1138-rare-George-Lucas-1st-film_W0QQitemZ110432941878QQcategoryZ60306QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D370455404600%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5041395209464510977

I contacted the guy from youtube and I will let you know what he says.

msycamore said:

And with that sub-stream as a base, it should hopefully be easier to rework it to fit, erri_wan's "Italian cut", with the help of you Italian guys I hope. :)

Yeah no problem on my end, if you need any help let me know. Leonardo has to be credited for the subtitles too.

They did a test in Africa and apparently a trained pigeon was a faster of transferring 2GB than fast internet connections. LOL

(they attached a 2GB memory card to the pigeon's claw)

You could ask him if he's got another one or otherwise ask for the buyer's email (indicating that you're from THX preservation group), you might get lucky and get the buyer to show up here liked I did ;-)

It's my pleasure and honour. I'm glad I found some people I could share it with!

I once recorded THX from national TV (it must have been around 1999, that's when I first saw it) and I vaguely remember the narration at the beginning however my memory may be very much influenced by this video file I had years later. I'm tempted to look for a THX on VHS here in Italy just to check that the video release was or was not the same.

(I have already check the local libraries network but unfortunately they don't have it, some other cities do but they wouldn't send it so far, the VHS is not on ebay Italy either... the only option left is carboot sales!)

It's really hard to guess, I'm still trying to contact the dubbing company to know more but it's not an easy task apparently.

Usually we don't have special TV-cuts of movies. We also don't have a very strict censorship (well not anymore at least) so international films don't usually get butchered (like sometimes happens in Germany or the UK).

As I said when I first joined the forum, the very existance of such version is puzzling even for Italians, we don't usually "alter" movies at all (except for the titles)!

If any attempt to contact the dubbers fails I will contact "WB Italia" and ask them.

it seems odd that they wouldn't mention that in the DVD documentary when discussing the studio interference. They don't going into details though but it's a pretty big thing to not mention but everything is possible of course.

It's not really surprising, in the whole documentary Lucas wanted to show how he managed to win over the evil Empire that was Warner Bros... saying that in one country WB succeeded is something would be diminishing his own glory. I also would omit this info if I intended to self-elogiate myself like George always does. Plus, as far as we know, Lucas might honestly not know about it at all.

The cover I posted must be from the VHS version. The book has this cover

Urania is a famous Sci-Fi book line which published, back in the day, most science fiction stories that would have otherwise been never translated.

The reason why I called my video on youtube "As the Studios wanted it" is exactly because of that interview you kindly posted msycamore. When I heard of the flashback my memory went imediately to my Italian copy and I thought "holy moly" this might be of interest.

If the film was shown in Cannes it might have been also released in Italy the same year then, Italian and French people have similar tastes and we tend to appreciate anything that passess on Cannes screens. However I can't find anyone who lived in those years that would remember this film at all (I was born well 14 years later) and my parents were never cinema people.

Well I'm not totally sure it was released in 79. On Imdb there is no Italian release date which is not surprising, in 71 Lucas was totally unknown (American Graffiti wasn't such a hit here) and THX is quite a "niche" film, I doubt it would have been released in 1971 (my guess is that we had to wait at least till 1977).

Laserdiscs weren't extremely popular here and VHS were yet to come so my guess is that this film only went on TV (or at most in very few local cinemas). Unfortunately it's really hard to find any information, there is practically no data available online for most of the films of those years.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the film become available for the first time only on VHS in the late 80s/early90s

Again on the "unknown-ness" (allow me to invent a word) of Georgy-boy:

I don't know if this is from a VHS or a cinema poster (looks like a VHS cover to me) but you can notice that Francis Ford Coppola is the main name up there, director George Lucas was left as a bottom note.

By the way, do you have this poster in English? Looks like a typical Italian way of attracting more audiance (I'm referring to the boob)

I received the book a few days ago, I haven't started reading it yet but I did a quick check and I can say that the beginning is like the original film (no flashback and no Adam prologue), the sequence of SEN with the kids is similar to the script msycamore posted (so slightly longer than the original cut).

However, on the back of the book (the book is in Italian, whoever has the English version please check it!) it ends the description saying: the old story repeats itself. This time Adam of this future Eden is called THX 1138, while his beautiful room mate who will lead him into temptation is called LUH 3417.

In the same description it states that the story is set in the XXV century.

First published in Italy in March 1979 (I think that's when, in Italy, we saw THX for the first time, only after the success of Star Wars)

For those who haven't seen this version yet, I should clarify that these voiceovers that SilverWook has noticed are not from a narrator (like in the flashback sequence that I uploaded on youtube) but they are being broadcasted aloud through invisible speakers (making this orwellian world even more oppressive)... and it's funny how things like "Love is Man's real damnation. By eliminating Love we eliminated unhappiness." is being said after THX and LUH had sex and are more "intimate"... or "If you feel temperature changes or that your body is sexually aroused, regenerate! Regenerate!" when THX is showering (after buying the red box), so suggesting to the audiance that THX is sexually stimulated (and perhaps that's a cold shower he's taking lol).

"Jogging stimulate blood circulation!" is being shouted repeatedly while you see a line of men running as if they have been suggested/ordered to do so by the omnipresent voice.

It all gives to the film a much more oppressive feeling but it takes away a lot from the film Lucas had in mind. The audiance doesn't NEED to be hinted what's happening with these cheap tricks... however maybe Warner Bros thought so! Or the Italian dubbers thought so!?

I'm currently trying to contact the responsable for the Italian dubbing but I don't have high hopes with that. I would like to ask him if they took some liberties with the dubbing of if it was all in the transcript they received and who's responsable for the flashback scene, them or the distributor?

(10:56) Se senti che il tuo corpo ha degli stimoli di sessualità o sbalzi di temperatura rigenerati! Rigenerati!

(12:36) il sesso provocatore di infelicità è stato eliminato dal nostro sistema. Qualsiasi cedimento è punito nelle nostre camere di rieducazione

(15:37) L'amore è la vera dannazione dell'uomo. Eliminando l'amore abbiamo eliminato la sua infelicità

(18:43) Correre attiva la circolazione! Correre attiva la circolazione! Correre attiva la circolazione!

(19:58) Solo nell'ordine è la salvezza del popolo. (Repeated over and over)

(38:38) Il pensiero porta a (incomprensibile due to the echo). Lascia (incomprensibile)

(1:02:50)
SEN: Cos'è? E' tuo? Ti si è levato?
KID 1: si
SEN: eh, lo butto?
KID 1: attento, questo mi serve!
SEN: ah scusami sai, io non... ciao
fammelo vedere ancora
ecco qua, lo colleghiamo di nuovo eh?
adesso è a posto
KID 2: come ti chiami? Q...Qual'è il tuo nome?
SEN: tu hai un nome?
KID 1: non rispondere
KID 2: cosa?
KID 1: non rispondere a questa domanda.
SEN: cosa ha detto?
KID 2: no io posso rispondere
io sono 3-1-14
SEN: ah, io sono S-E-N 5-2-4-1
KID 1: male?
SEN: sei forte
sapete, quando ero piccolo era molto differente. Dovevamo stare sempre a letto a studiare scienze economiche.
KID 2: non è vero!
SEN: le scienze economiche erano in un contenitore grande così
molto grande

(10:56) If you feel temperature changes or that your body is sexually aroused, regenerate! Regenerate!

(12:36) Sex, source of unhappiness, has been eliminated from our society. Any trasgression will be punished in our reeducation chambers

(15:37) Love is Man's real damnation. By eliminating Love we eliminated unhappiness.

(18:43) Jogging stimulate blood circulation! Jogging stimulate blood circulation! Jogging stimulate blood circulation!

(19:58) People's salvation is to be found only in Order (Repeated over and over)

(38:38) Thinking leads to... (incomprehensible due to echo). Leave... (incomprehensible) [I'll check this part with some program to try and clean the sound]

(1:02:50)
SEN: What's this? Is it yours? Did it come off?
KID 1: Yes
SEN: should I throw it away?
KID 1: watch it! I need this!
SEN: oh I'm sorry, I don't... hi [talking to KID 2]
let me see that again
here you go, we plug it back
it's sorted
KID 2: What do they call you? Wh...What's your name?
SEN: What's your name?
KID 1: Don't answer
KID 2: What?
KID 1: Don't answer this question.
SEN: What did he say?
KID 2: no, I can answer.
I am 3-1-14
SEN: ah, I am S-E-N, 5-2-4-1
KID 1: did it hurt?
SEN: you're strong!
you know, when I was a kid it was very different. We had to stay in bed all the time to study Economics.
KID 2: I don't believe it!
SEN: Economics came in a bottle this big, very big!

You're right, there's a lot of voiceovers on many scenes. I'll translate those for you.

Didn't know about the extended SEN scene with the kids but I do remember noticing a lot of additional scenes (such as LUH calling for THX when she comes home) when I first watched the laserdisc version (keep in mind that I've seen this Italian version until 2004 practically)

Did you notice how the black guy is credited as "negro" (="nigger"), lol! However it must be said that in the 70's there was no hint of racism. Nowadays the word negro has become obviously racist but in those days it was a normal word.

SilverWook will verify which version that is (I'm really not an expert) so I wouldn't get too excited just yet. :P

I should have the novel in the next few days. I'll let you know!

I take the theatrical cut is not available anywhere (?)

In this case I guess the flashback scene can be accounted for the missing Buck Rogers sequence

By the way, the length, as you surely have noticed SilverWook, is 1:17:24 (in PAL). So in PAL it's just over 77 minutes. That would make it the shortest version around (unless it was cut at the start due to manual recording), on wikipedia I read:

• Original cut: 86 minutes, released in 1977
• Theatrical cut: 81 minutes
• Director's cut: 88 minutes, released on DVD in 2004

The closest thing is the Theatrical cut then. Maybe the clip from Buck Rogers was removed for TV broadcast so making 81 minutes into 77-78 mins.

I read some descriptions for the novelization (in Italian) and one of those DOES describe THX as an "Adam" of this future social "Eden" (or something along those lines)... I think we might indeed find the origin of this voiceover in the book.

They used to be very creative with posters in the 70's and early 80's. Have you ever seen the Italian poster of "The Evil Dead"? (in Italian called "La Casa" meaning "The House") http://www.lazonamorta.it/UserFiles/Image/la_casa%201.jpg

As for the Buck Rogers clip, it was my understanding that Lucas simply wanted us to feel like being in a cinema of his youth (his "famous" matinées that he's always going on about), with THX1138 as a new serial being shown with advertising for a Buck Rogers episode at the start. Quite smart I have to say, because by doing so he also shows a difference between an adventurous, idealized (and relatively happy) future opposed to the oppressing future shown in THX... not necessarily meaning that they would be set in the same century. But maybe I'm reading too much into it!

However I also wonder if it's due to the excessive creativity of Italian dubbers, Warner Bros over-zealousness or (also possibly) a mistake by the Italian dubbers in saying centuries instead of years (that would set it in late 23rd Century).

No worries about the rest, I'm glad I could help and I'm very glad I can relieve myself from the burden of holding the only (as far as I know) existing copy of this THX edit... if my hard disc will ever fail I know that this rarity is at least safe in someone else's computer!

SilverWook, I sent you via email the translation for the Italian audio. It's basically what Leonardo wrote (way better than my original quick translation, bravo Leo!) with only a couple of minor corrections.

So does anyone have the novelization of THX-1138? I had the thought that this background story might be found there.

Again, about this voiceover, I find it curious that it describes the story as being set 270 CENTURIES after 2002. So the film is supposed to take place around the year 29000.

<p>By the way, the Special Edition for DVD in Italy was redubbed to have a 5.1 audio. This also happened for Jaws, Superman and many other classics. There was an uproar of fans when they were trying to do it with Star Wars and Indiana Jones... but local stories aside, I'm trying to find out who the heck dubbed this film so if they are still alive I might ask directly (if they remember) what's the deal with this narration off-screen.

Could it be taken from the novelization? Has anyone read it?</p>

<p><blockquote><p><strong>SilverWook</strong> said:</p><p>Welcome aboard, erri_wan!</p><br /><p>What you displayed from the version you have is good old fashioned bad pan and scan. It's interesting they didn't squeeze that shot to avoid chopping it up that way. In the old days, these things were often left up to whoever was transferring the film to videotape, often to the dismay of the director and cinematographer!</p></blockquote><p> </p><br /><br />

Hi there, thanks for the welcome everyone.<br /><br />To reply your post, yes I do remember now that they used to do a lot of these chopping up with the conversion to 4:3... I almost forgot the VHS-age!

<br /><br /><blockquote><p><strong>ChainsawAsh</strong> said:</p><p>Hmm. So is it possible that the 1971 US theatrical cut <em>didn't</em> have the narration at the beginning?</p><br /><p>It's maddening that we don't have a proper, confirmed reference for this ...</p></blockquote><p> </p><br /><br />

I agree it's all quite weird. As SilverWook said to skyjedi2005, this isn't like the Spanish version of Star Wars with rolling titles being read aloud (we don't have that in Italian, they translated them) this is an actual off-screen narration in the style of Blade Runner with implications on the plot and philosophical metaphors!<br />I agree that Lucas wouldn't have allowed this so I think we are left with two options:<br /><br />1) Italian dubbers thought the film was too hard to follow if left unexplained and decided to add the narration<br /><br />2) The distributor of the film had the rights to do whatever he wanted with the film outside the USA (without asking Lucas) and decided to test their own version on the Italian public with an off-screen narration that they had prepared for Lucas (he did afterall say that they wanted that if I'm not mistaken, forgive my memory but I sold off the S.E. DVD so I can't check the commentary).<br /><br />In any case, I doubt this narration exists in English. It was probably written by the studios and never used (aside for the Italian market). <br /><br />It's just a hunch but I believe my second option much more than the first. First of all because, although I keep Italian dubbers in high regards (not for national spirit but because they are as a matter of fact really good), I doubt they would have came up with an off-screen narration so appropriate, secondly I don't think in Italy anyone in the distribution of foreign films have the power to even edit a film adding a flashback and a background story that wasn't there in the first place. It's something nobody would be allowed to do unless the WB, American Zeotrope or whoever had the film rights, wanted.</p>

(from the "classic" version)

 (from my Italian version)