I don't particularly like that cover but your skills will come handy when the time comes Rogue-theX!
Thanks for your input.
It's good to have Leonardo around, a second (and fresher mind) is really handy. After hours of translation one might get sloppy.
Yeah it sounds like they had in mind a future based on half-century old technology. They don't even have the justification of having to lip-sync because most of that stuff is just off-screen voice.
"Transducer reading 5." etc sounds good enough (backwards localization is something I've never thought I would be doing one day).
If moderators don't mind I'll post here more doubtful stuff like this, I know it takes space from the thread but at least we can have more people eyeing up what we say, in case they want to suggest something too.
Fantozzi 2 is not finished yet, I'm really not dedicating too much time to it but it's a lot of fun. I can quote you one single line that identify the film "In my opinion... Battleship Kotionkin... is one big bullshit!" ;-)
If you've got a suggestion on how to translate the title "Il Secondo Tragico Fantozzi" you're very welcome. It seems easy but I can't make up my mind on which choice is best, none make sense. I don't think that The Second Tragical Fantozzi makes too much sense in English. For now it has a working title "Fantozzi 2"
Ok sorry for the off topic
That's what I used, thanks Leo. If you would like to check some parts with me I can use a little counselling. While I successifully decoded the inaudible speeches (at last!), I've still got a couple of lines that are really obscure in their meaning and how to render them in English I can only guess (I've translated them temporarily but it's not the definitive version).
These few lines are parts of radio speeches, totally different from the English script so it's even hard to guess what the dubbers had in mind when they translated those words.
I give you one example. In a couple of scenes they say "fonorivelatore" which is, as far as I know, translated with "pick-up" but pick-up could be a confusing word especially in such short phrases so I decided to go for a more generic "sensors". I could use "transducer" but I leave the decision to Americans. Obviously in English it didn't even say anything like that. I give you the example
(Original version) "Your radiation level is 5 --"
(Italian version) "Fonorivelatore a 5 e --"
How would you translate it? Should I say "Transducer reads 5. --"? Would it make any sense? If it doesn't don't worry, neither does in Italian really. Why would they still use transducers for gramophone records in the 25th century??
Sorry guys for this "private" conversation with Leonardo.
Guys, would you say "vehicle driven in thought transference" or "vehicle driven by thought transference"? Or else?
Also, do you say "Roger" when you aknowledge a radio message/order?
msycamore said:
I hope this isn't an Italian video exclusive dub, if so, there's a risk the Italian audio will sound a little weird if you convert it to NTSC. But this dub was probably made for the Italian theatrical release, so I guess it won't be any problem.
Mmmh I'm no expert on this matter.
Of course! I thought you had it already msycamore. I'll upload it tomorrow with the subtitles so you can check it out, however keep in mind the job is not finished, I want to watch it again just to make sure, probably correct the timing on a few lines and check again the translation "afresh". I leave the job of correct formatting to you. I tried to keep in mind to finish sentences with a full stop and put italics on off-screen voices but I surely missed a lot of stuff.
SilverWook you already have the film in Italian therefore I can just send you the subtitles so you can enjoy robots declaring that personnel will be destroyed because outdated or that the other car was being driven by THX by thought transference, or again that THX on the loose is a biohazard that risks to infect the whole humanity with his germs of thought! Urgh!
Obviously now I know the film by heart in Italian. D'oh!
Ok job done. THX is entirely subtitled in Englsh now. In the next few days I'll watch it again to check that everything is ok then I'll send it to... msycamore?
I'm at 1h07min into the film.
Now it would be the right moment to get me that extended scene written down SilverWook ;-)
Nothing new yet but I'll do some more soon (took me hours just to do 30 minutes of the film, listen, rewind, listen again, translate, rewind to find the point again... worse of all when they all speak fast together. A nightmare the trial part, some minor stuff had to be cut for brevity as it happens with every dvd subtitle, no loss of meaning though).
I did keep that post of yours in mind when translating. Thank you again for finding it!
SilverWook in case you haven't understood yet we want a pirate camcorder copy of the extended scene projected from your film. LOL can you imagine the quality?!
SilverWook, could you give me the transcription of that extended scene? So I can use it for my English subtitles for the Italian version.
At this point I suggest the following idea:
disc 1: English version of the film (without extended scene) and extended scene in English (from SilverWook grainy film) as an extra in the disc. Due to its poor quality I doubt we could add it to the laserdisc video, the difference would be imediately noticeable.
disc 2: Italian(/European?) cut as planned, subtitled in English also in the extended scene.
I've downloaded free software Subtitle Workshop and it seems very easy. I've started to sync the subtitles. I'm at 30 minutes in the film. I know it was your job msycamore but I thought it would be easier if I did it, being the audio in Italian it might be harder for you to sync everything.
Yes, I asked this guy only about French Italian and German laserdiscs so he didn't mention the Japanese release.
Does anyone have the UK laserdisc here?
I've just re-checked the subtitles. I'm quite happy with the work. I also understood more of the unintelligible voices in the background (after hearing them dozens of times some made finally sense!).
Subtitling is 99.9% completed.
I noticed some localization mistakes but execpt for the "reassigned name: foetus" I didn't correct any, as per request. It's really minimal stuff anyway.
Sorry, another correction that had to be made was to this "approaching Expressway 300" dubbed as "approaching Expressway 3%" (I guess they didn't understand that it was the Expressway number 300, and not a degree of approach. Using the percentage doesn't make sense anyway)
I've just got confirmation from a Laserdisc collector in Italy and he says that THX on Laserdisc only exists in English NTSC (from US) and PAL (from UK). There are no Italian, German or French version of the film on Laserdisc.
So the best we can find is a tape that has not deteriorated. We can forget a high quality version of the recut.
Sorry guys, the person who told me he had a THX laserdisc perhaps didn't say that it was only in English.
Kenobius Prime said:
erri_wan, thank you very much for offering your comments about this. I have always been fascinated with non-U.S. versions of the films I treasure. Thanks!
Wait till you watch it subtitled then! Plenty of differences.
Partially due to Warner's plot choices, partially due to a lousy localization of the Italian dubbing team.
In the end Donald Pleasance is credited as JEN instead of SEN (in the film they say SEN so they made a typo). Not a lot of care was put into this film.
Anyway, from this description (sorry, in Italian) http://www.cosedaunaltromondo.it/product.php?pId=1403&printp=1 I see that whoever reviewed it watched the very same version I have because it refers to "germs of thought" and that gender differences have been abolished because they lead to unhappiness (same stuff that the added voices in the background say)
After some researches I also found that:
1) the Italian poster http://www.cosedaunaltromondo.it/english/tipologies_dettail.php?tId=80 was designed by Averardo Ciriello. PRINTER was GRAFOPRESS, 1976, ROME. DISTRIBUTOR:
SOCIETA' ITALIANA DISTRIBUZIONE FILMS, 1976, ITALY
2) "Società Italiana Distribuzione Films" is also the distributor written at the end of the movie I have
1+2= this version that I have was the first available (1976) and distribuited. So I can safely assume now that this is the standard pre-DVD Italian version.
Why is this film rare then? Because the version available on peer2peer and torrent websites have been "made" using the English video and adding the Italian audio. Someone must have had some troubles re-cutting all the pieces because of the missing scenes, the extended scene and the prologue were lost in the process.
After 2004 you can only find the DVD version (which is a new dub, horribly done but accurate to the "original cut") so this is really getting rare to find... and the last chance to preserve SEN extende scene
My pleasure.
I just finished but give me some time to re-check everything. I also need to relisten a couple of words which are not very clear due to the quality of the audio.
Some stuff they say over the microphones is just random, jaw-droppingly random. When I watchedthis film in Italian (in my teen years) I remember the film as being quite confusing and now I totally understand why. You still get what's happening but the nerve of these translators!
I don't know if some of the plot alterations have been requested by Warner (who, we may assume, re-cut the film in this order before presenting it to the dubbers) however I can list some of the main differences, plot-wise:
1) the hologram is a projection of THX's mind, in Italian they call it "transfert di pensiero" which I translated as "transference" (it's a term from psichology also used in paraphsychology). They are very clear about the fact that THX generated this hologram. In the English version I think it was much more vague and if I'm not mistaken, the hologram coming into the real world had nothing to do with THX's mind.
2) there's a lot of talk about "germs of thought" which can infect society. THX is almost a biological hazard on the run.
3) THX at the trial is considered curable and will be eventually put back to work. Even while he's escaping, they tell him over the radio that he can still get his job back
4) in one screen it is said that SEN corrupted THX. While LUH is only accused of sexual violation. The trial is only about that (after they have sex in the white limbo) - reason why the trial sequence was placed afterwards.
It's all very confusing I know, it seems that Warner wanted a slightly different plot. Some pieces are cut away alltogether.
5) minor plots have been deleted. Totally absent from the translation the fact that someone made a mistake starting a mindblock while he was working at something very dangerous. Then control room declare itself not responsable for the mistake. Another is the scene when THX is in the limbo and operators move him through a mind control equipment. This was changed with the operators talking about THX situation and danger he brings to society instead of being an operator teaching to a trainee how to operate the mind-control equipment (from what they say they weren't controlling him at all, making some of Duvall's spasms totally not understandable... part of which were also cut away)
If I can remember any other difference I'll post it here
My God the mistakes I'm listening to! I'm almost done with the subtitling by the way. I'm 15 minutes to the end of the movie, then I'll check it all over and add here and there some time indication so you can easily check that you are subtitling the right stuff at the right time.
I never noticed that the film has also been re-edited moving some scenes around (THX trial is not right after his arrest and in the trial he's considered "curable" while in English they say he's incurable). I wonder that the hell did Warner have in mind.
The way some parts have been translated really make the film hard to understand while in English it's all pretty clear... anyway you'll see for yourself soon enough.
There were a couple of things I didn't translate from Italian because they clearly were mistakes.
When THX is looking for LUH on the computer, a voice says that LUH has been destroyed and regenerated (whatever that means) with the new name of FOETUS, they thought foetus was her new name??? In English of course it says that LUH has been "consumed" and name "reassigned" to a foetus.
I'm leaving it as it is in English because I'm not keeping this kind of sh*t, pardon my French lol
Yeah I think we should have two separate threads, one for American Graffiti and one for THX
I find funny that they had to change even the components of the robot THX is working on
Instead of "the TTO integrated logic modules" in Italian THX is inserting a "double conversion superheterodyne" (I had to sweat a bit to understand that word and translate it, ancient technology goes in those robots!)
Sorry SilverWook, I checked and of course there is no birth request, I misunderstood because I was concentrating on the translation while the removed scene was on (removed from the Italian version),
About the removed parts, I can easily identify any cut because that's where the audio switches back to English. Good news is that the video the guy from youtube sent me is much better quality so I could understand also what was before unclear.
Best altered line encountered until now is the following:
-What is it?
-A shell dweller.
-They live in the outer shell.
We had two here before, we had to kill them.
You can't imagine the smell.
LOL in the Italian version the "inmates" killed two previous shell dwellers
I'm working on the translation and, oh boy, never noticed all these alterations. Some segments have been cut (for example LUH asking permission for procreation [am I right, did I see that happening?], LUH standing in a corner and THX leaving the prayer boot after vomiting).
Dialogue is often slightly different (I guess you'll enjoy checking the differences). In some cases it even adds new info (invented I guess!) or give different meanings and interpretation. Minimal stuff of course (at the beginning when there's an overload and explosion, the voice counts 63 robot personnel destroyed, not caring of the humans I guess)... I am of course retranslating all these into English subs as per request! ;-) I'll keep you updated
Side note: to your advantage, I have marked clearly which parts are added and which are removed. However I am not coordinating the timing but simply replacing the lines where these appear on the original subtitled film. I don't have the program to do the synchronizing, I hope some of you guys is equipped for sub sync.
THX11384EB said:
I also forgot to mention that my sister's best friend now lives in Italy. I requested that she look for the Italian Laserdisc version of the film along with any other format besides the current DC version.
Four eyes are better than two! But if anything appears on ebay please let me know so we don't bid on the same thing for the same purpose!
Tell her to look for the VHS too, laserdisc can be found only with a miracle here
Ok msycamore perhaps you're right. Afterall I've only got one thing to do now, translate!
THX thanks for your help and welcome on board
Merry Christmas to all of you
SilverWook said:
Okay, I'm going to try having a chat channel tonight on the following little used IRC server
Sorry Silver, we've been hit with a snowstorm exactly on the 17th, took three days to get back to normal, and then of course Christmas duties took my time.
I hope you didn't wait up.
I guess we'll try again after the holidays, however, as for the time, you should try for the morning Silver, because 7 in the evening in your time zone is like 3am here in Europe. Anyway, isn't easier to use MSN messenger?
No news yet about the Italian tape, people must be in holiday