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theredbaron

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29-Aug-2005
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6-Jan-2016
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Post
#140635
Topic
Has anyone seen 'Hero'?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/140635/action/topic#140635
Time
I think the world of warriors and martial arts presented in 'Hero' has many interesting applications to the Star Wars universe and the idea of the Force. I tried to find the relevant script excerpt, but this is the best that I could do:

In addition to the weapons, Nameless also presents the King a scroll with the word "sword" written. In his original version of events, Nameless requested that Broken Sword write this specifically with different brush strokes as it was known that the assassin's sword skill was tied to his calligraphy skill. Nameless intended to study this character in order to find Broken Sword's weakness before engaging him. (Traditional Chinese characters and calligraphy can bear more than one meaning and at this period in history there was often more than one way to "write" a word.) Ultimately, it's the King who deciphers the character as a three-step guide for mastering martial arts. The first step is "unity of man and sword" where anything including a leaf can become a weapon. The second is where the "sword exists in one's heart." Li describes this as stopping a fight before it begins. The last step is "absence of sword in heart and hand." In essence, the warrior is at peace with the world and his enemies, and their is no need to fight. Li's character goes through all three of these steps, which also have great meaning for him in real life.

I would like to incorporate teachings like this into my version of EPIII, but I'd also like to hear some thoughts on the subject as a whole.
Post
#140606
Topic
Episode I Digital Yoda Images!!!!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/140606/action/topic#140606
Time
In theory I support the CG Yoda over the puppet Yoda in Episode I, given that I thought the puppet Yoda looked fake and decidedly un-Yoda-like. I hate Episode I anyway, so GL can screw with it all he likes as far as I'm concerned. You never know, he might accidentally turn it into a good movie one day.

However, I will personally hunt down and destroy everyone at Lucasfilm, ILM, and Skywalker Ranch, if any change is made to the Episode V and VI Yoda. Those performances - puppetry, expression AND voice-acting-wise - were PERFECT. The slight jerkiness of a puppet moves a lot more realistically than the fluidity of CG. Now Animatronics, THAT always worked well IMHO.
Post
#140207
Topic
Has anyone now second guessed the prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/140207/action/topic#140207
Time
I *sort of* see what you mean, but I think if you watched 'Sith' first, then the shock of 'Empire' would be gone, whereas if you watched them the other way around, you'd get both the shocking revelation of 'Empire' AND the tragedy of 'Sith'. Tragedy works on the notion of the hero, fatally flawed, fighting against and eventually coming to grips with his destiny/fate. Pity and catharsis is evoked in the audience as we watch the hero fall helplessly to the doom of his own construction.
Post
#140111
Topic
Has anyone now second guessed the prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/140111/action/topic#140111
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
I can see how the 70's child would see all the movies, having had the Vader revelation, but I was a 90's child who saw everything from a different perspective. Despuite having never seen the originals until after TPM in 1999, I grew up knowing Vader was Luke's father. That was never a shock to me. What interested me most was how he became Vader, which is why I like the prequels. I see all the movies as equal. I don't set around bashing any of them, I have just grew up appreciating all of them.


See, I was an 80s child - when I said I saw ANH & ESB at the age of 7, I'm talking 1991. I saw it on video. So, this is more than just a 70s child thing, this is an whoever-sees-the-OT-before-the-prequels-thing. Let the kids have the shocking ESB revelation, THEN the others - the opportunity to feel the tragedy of EPIII is always there. Because believe it or not, I did cry in EPIII when Anakin was crawling out of the lava. I did smile and laugh evilly when Darth Vader's mask went on. EPIII was a good movie, it just wasn't quite right because it had to fit in with EPI and II, and it still ignored some crucial backstory elements. Now you all know how old I am.
Post
#140106
Topic
Has anyone now second guessed the prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/140106/action/topic#140106
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: JackLucas
Firstly, Adam... your sig pic is making me want to kill myself. Seriously.... TOO BIG!

Second...

Take the famous "Nooooooooo!!!!!!!" from ROTS. I ask everyone, do you honestly think that it is any better than Lukes "Noooooo!!!!!!" in ESB?

This is the first time where I will disagree with you 200%. While I have made it clear that I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I have to say that if you think that the Vader "jazz hands" scene from ROTS (the one scene that made me almost want to crawl under my seat in the theater the first time out) is on par with Luke's agony at the revelation that Vader is his father in EMPIRE, you are one tiny step away from delusion. Hell, I would go out on a limb and say that that is one of the best acted moments in the entire Original Trilogy! I know a lot of people like to parody it, but all I know is that every time I watch it, I feel Luke's pain reflected up on that screen. When I watch ol' Frankenvader in ROTS, I can't help but feel the urge to revert to my childhood mantra of "LALALALALALALALALALA, I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU!". Good Lord... that scene seriously derailed a train that was at that point CHARGING down the tracks full steam. One of the biggest misteps in the entire Prequel Trilogy in my opinion.


I agree with you completely.

As for the prequels, I wasn't expecting Vader hunting down Jedi throughout all three. I was expecting it for a decent segment of EPIII, however, as this IS the backstory! It is what Obi-wan said happened before! The Jedi didn't get gunned down like lousy punks by a bunch of pathetic clones (and if they did, they didn't get taken by surprise), they were personally seen to and killed by Darth Vader. The Clone Wars was clones vs. clones. Obi-wan was trained by Yoda directly. Obi-wan happened upon Anakin and trained him himself. Anakin was a crack starfighter pilot, not a crack podracer or accidentally crack starfighter pilot. The list goes on...fundamental backstory elements that were simply ignored for GL's 'greater new enhanced vision' yada yada yada.

In fact, if you want to know exactly what I expected, I have re-written the stories to EPI and II in the Fan Preservation and Edits section.

Post
#139946
Topic
Why no mention of "Sith" in Episodes IV-VI?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139946/action/topic#139946
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Ell the Ewok
There are only ever 2 Sith, and grevious wasnt counted as a sith, he was trained the Jedi arts but that dosnt make him a jedi. Also why would Yoda or Obi wan say like 'yes my young padawan' when Luke knows nothing of padawanship?


Sounds like you're interested in doing mental gymnastics to have it all make sense. Either way, I think GL introduced the concept of the 'rule of two' to explain something which has *kind of* puzzled me, even within the OT. When Darth Sidious assumed control of the Galactic Empire, why didn't Sith teachings thrive under his rule? I suppose he didn't want any challenge to his power, but still...
Post
#139940
Topic
I think we REALLY dodge a bullet with Episode III. (read inside..)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139940/action/topic#139940
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: TheCassidy
I heard that Han was a mysterious smuggler and a star pilot who met up with Luke & Obi-Wan in the Mos Eisley cantina and then set off on one crazy ass adventure...

I'm pretty happy leaving it at that.

It's like suddenly somewhere filmmakers decided that the public were morons, and needed to have every little detail penciled in for them. What ever happened to using your imagination? That's also why I'm not particularly fond of 'Last Crusade,' because it de-mystifies everything about Indiana Jones, and takes away some of the character's charm.

Same thing if they had of filmed the Han scene. So, yes, Jay is right in saying we dodged a bullet. And until we know who nixed the scene, it's all just conjecture. Who knows? Maybe Rick 'Yes-Man' MacCallum is more responsible for some of the bad stuff about the Prequels than Lucas.


The Last Crusade is probably my favourite Indy film, even though it goes to the unnecessary trouble of explaining the scar on his chin!
Post
#139759
Topic
Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Story Rewrite (deleted information)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139759/action/topic#139759
Time
Yeah, that's why I changed it.

A few elements I've taken to give EPIV another layer of meaning:
- Owen as Anakin's friend
- Alderaan as the planet Anakin and Padmé fall in love on

So when the stormtroopers are sent off on a search-and-destroy mission on Tatooine for the droids, the death of Owen and Beru serves as another sign that Anakin Skywalker is no longer (given that Darth Vader sent them there without a second-thought).

When Alderaan is destroyed, it's another severed tie from Anakin's past (given Darth Vader's ambivolence to the event).

And of course, when Darth Vader kills Obi-wan, his former friend and master, it's yet another sign that Anakin is gone.
Post
#139495
Topic
Unbearable HC
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139495/action/topic#139495
Time
Originally posted by: Zebonka
I just wish he'd remake the OT completely, so he stop SCREWING with the movies that defined my formative years. Seriously, why can't he just do that? Wait a couple of years for the PT people to get older. Make 3 new movies. LEAVE THE GOOD ONES ALONE YOU OLD FOOL.


I've never thought about that before. Perhaps there would have been some benefit in letting GL remake the OT. The only thing is, I bet he'd still refuse to release the OOT in favour of the 'New Original Trilogy'.
Post
#139494
Topic
Which did you prefer, the SE or the 2004 DVD edition?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139494/action/topic#139494
Time
Originally posted by: wannabegeorge
2004 DVDs ... but if I had the choice, I'd choose the O-OT

pro 2004 Edition:
-for whatever you might say about Lucas' irrational devotion to SFX and image quality, you have to admit, they look pretty amazing (clarity, color accuracy, etc.)
-better Jabba (why they couldn't get him to the quality of his PM counterpart I can't figure ...) and other CG characters
-Ian McDiarmid in ESB
-Updated ROTJ ending celebrations
-Han is getting closer to shooting first again LOL

things I didn't care for:
-Anakin's ghost - that's fairly unforgivable IMHO
-green lightsaber in ANH? How did this happen? and lightsaber inconsistencies in other scenes ...

Other than that, the changes seemed pretty minor. Honestly, I don't see how refusing to release the O-OT gets Lucas more money. I think it's a case of an "artist" being too interested in pleasing himself to accept outside input. That can be seen as a good or bad thing ... personally, I wish I could have a nice transfer of the films as they originally were. LOL, but somehow, I don't think that's an original thought on these boards.



This is like asking a Christian which one he likes better: the Devil, or Satan?!
Post
#139492
Topic
Info Wanted: your opinions on the changing lightsabers colors in the OT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139492/action/topic#139492
Time
I think in principle, adherents to the Light Side of the Force are supposed to weild blue lightsabers (as it seems to be an archetypal colour of virtue and goodness), and adherents to the Dark Side weild red lightsabers (as a symbol of aggression and passion).

So that's the colour issue. I think that the definition and richness of the lightsabers in the PT kind of detracts from the mysticism of the lightsaber. Lightsabers should look a little ethereal and mystical, but solid enough to look as though it will have an impact on the physical world.

I hope that was vague enough for ya.
Post
#139471
Topic
Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Story Rewrite (deleted information)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139471/action/topic#139471
Time
Originally posted by: The Bizzle
I want to write my own heroic tale; create my own mythos, but I wanted to start with something I know.


And that's either going to stunt or trap you. You don't need to offer an alternative this involved when you criticize a movie or a book. Otherwise Ebert would be directing movies and the New York Book Review would write bestsellers. But they don't. I mean, you've done like 10 drafts combined on these two things, and it's all a sort of tainted creativity. It's inhibiting your skills, not growing them. I understand the rationalizations you're giving me, but they're just that: rationalizations. Especially in the face of how much time and energy you're pouring into this.

it's not as if you NEED to do mental gymnastics to figure out some kids movies. You can just go "eh" and pour that energy, that time, and creativity into your OWN stuff instead. There. It's resolved. Life is too short, and movies, ultimately, too inconsequential, to spend this much time "fixing" something in your mind, especially when there are so many other movies, stories and books that you can jump into. It's an option you seem not to have considered. You'd rather lean very heavily on an unnecessary crutch; trapping yourself in another man's mental playground. It's like a baby learning to walk on the Andrea Gail. If you get off the ship, you're going to walk funny. But chances are you're going to sink anyway, if you stick with this line of "practice."

It's one thing to recognize flaws in other people's work. That's why most writers tell you to read constantly--eventually the structure, the internal logic of the stories will become as obvious to you as a roadmap printed in neon ink. You'll understand WHY the story works the way it does. And it sounds like you're doing that with Star Wars, for as much as you've immersed yourself in that universe. The trick is to not, unnecessarily, CONFINE yourself to that universe. And that's what you're doing.

Like I said, you've got good ideas. I think you're just a little too eager to kneecap yourself before you can implement em.


You're right and you're wrong at the same time. All of what you say is true under the assumption that this is my one and only creative pursuit. I am spending *a fair bit* of time on this, but it's no more than I spend on writing music or poetry or painting. This really is a stepping stone. I have no intention of living in the Star Wars Universe for the rest of my life. BUT I do want to undo the disappointment that I felt when I saw the PT. And it's working. Nowadays, when I watch the OT and I hear elements of backstory, I can fill in the gaps in my mind with what I have written, instead of Jar Jar Binks, podracers, and battle droids saying 'Roger Roger'. And yada yada yada.

At the end of the day, I want to do this, you hate the idea, and we're not going to change each other's minds about it.

Post
#139511
Topic
From Jedi To Jesus
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139511/action/topic#139511
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: codester
Believe me, I have grown up in a Christian church my whole life, and I have seen some Wacko Jacko things.

Once, when I was like 8 and lived in North Carolina (I live in PA now, thank God), this guy preached a sermon on how wearing casual clothes to church was unholy and that you shouldn't go to church if you don't dress up.

This whole Jedi to Jesus thing is nothing. I've seen much worse My parents want me to use my "talents" for the church. There is this class called "Media for Ministry" that they are urging my to do. I think I'll pass.

Really, I am not much of a Christian. Maybe, it is because my parents shove it down my throat, and quote the whole Bible to me when I get in trouble.

I cannot remember a day that they haven't quoted me a Bible verse or gave me a "sermon" on whatever.

I'm not an "anti-christ", but my parents just shove stuff down my throat and I don't want to be like them which is probably I am not very religious myself.


Don't worry about it, man. You can't live through your parents' faith. You have to find it for yourself. That way, if you ever decide to become a Christian, your faith will be your own, and you will be believing it based on your own experience.
Post
#139505
Topic
The Mace Windu Debate
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/139505/action/topic#139505
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
The Boba Fett debate is a moot point because if you accept official canon, then he lived, but if you accept official canon then you also by definition accept the prequels, which made Fett into a totally uncool kiwi clone, which in turn means any care for the character that we may have had is gone, so whether he died or not doesn't matter. He's about as cool as Yak Face now. In fact, maybe Yak face has a really cool history that we can only guess at and as yet hasn't been pissed on by the prequels. Yak Face is my new hero. And let's be honest, if you take just the movies and not the books etc that padded out the character, Mace Windu is pretty lame too. He's basically a stubborn Jedi who seems to do nothing but reiterate plot points with yoda and be a dick to Anakin.


The PT Yoda seems to be a real prick as well. Half the time it seems that Anakin probably wouldn't have gone to the Dark Side if Yoda and Mace Windu didn't constantly force unnecessary conditions upon Anakin: "uhhh...the Jedi Code says you can't think like that...oh, or that, you can't do that either...yeah, that's the Code." And then they didn't discipline Anakin when he actually did do something wrong. Like slaughtering sand people - women and children. We don't know whether or not they knew, but Yoda at least felt the suffering caused by Anakin, and heard Qui-Gon's voice saying "No, Anakin!". And then they didn't trust Anakin when he tells them that Palpatine is a Sith Lord - even though they told Anakin to spy on him and didn't trust Palpatine in the first place!

Oh yeah, back to the topic. If I had my way, the O-OT would be the only thing that is accepted as canon. That way, Boba wouldn't be a Kiwi clone, the Jedi wouldn't be arrogant pricks, and Jar Jar wouldn't even exist.