theprequelsrule

Random ideas follow:

Humanity is easily the dominant species in the galaxy, having come to sentience earlier than other species and thus had much more time to expand in power and population. The Mon Calamari are a distant second. Their entry on the side of the rebellion after the destruction of the Death Star-class Mobile Battlestation is a major boost to The Alliance to Restore the Republic.

The Sith are an order of evil Darkside Force users, former Jedi. They flee persecution into the Unknown Regions, where their ability to control the desires and ethics (but not specific actions) of others allows them to build up a great empire amongst the many non-human peoples of the area. Battle Meditation is a Sith invention and specialty. They are much less choosy in training others in Force techniques and powers. As a result the Armed Forces of the Sith, despite their vast numerical inferiority compared to those of The Republic, contains many more Force Users. As former Jedi, they wield the “lightsaber” or “laser sword”; A close combat energy melee weapon.

The Sith Wars:

Basically the same as Dark Horse Comics Tales of the Jedi, Dark Lords of the Sith, and the video games KOTOR and KOTOR2. With the difference being the above mentioned large numbers of Force trained warriors on the side of the Sith.

Darth Vader, a Dark Jedi in the service of The Galactic Empire, claims the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith millennia later, after rediscovering some of the orders techniques. He plans to restore the order, believing only a loyal order of Force users can restore order (no pun intended) to the galaxy, but fears The Emperor’s wrath should he put those plans in motion. The Emperor prefers a virtual monopoly on Force knowledge and techniques and, although he has learned many Sith techniques himself, does not consider himself the heir to their order.

The Mandalorians

They worship two things: war and technology

Powered Armour and semi-sentient Basilisk War Droids are features unique to their civilization.

Decimated after The Second Sith War, the Mandalorian Exodus occurs. Mandalorians disappear from Known Space until The Clone Wars

Best wishes to you and your family Warbler.

Servii said:

b) A fun, swashbuckling space adventure for kids

I think George forgot that Star Wars was for the kid in all of us, and not just for kids. Hence poop jokes in TPM.

JackNapier said:

Judging from the fact that a lot of the posts from the second era, which I caught the finishing two-three years of, were quite antagonistic at times, I for one prefer that people are nicer and tamer.

It is interesting to see different takes on the online world. Certainly most of us are willing to put up with some things online that we would not do so at work or home, but it seems that difference is shrinking (for better or worse). I wonder if it is a generational thing. Personally I think we should be able to take a little bit more antagonism from anonymous strangers online.

But we can all agree that if a site has rules and you repeatedly flaunt those rules, then you can expect consequences.

JadedSkywalker said:

Tom Voegeli who worked on the Star Wars Radio Drama, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi also did the Crimson Empire radio drama.

As well as the Dark Forces radio dramas.

I may need to track these down.

Servii said:

Simply, Rey is not Luke, despite the films treating her like she is, and I honestly think it’s a reductive treatment of her character. She has a different personality, different goals, and different relationships.

Evening Servii.

Luke is the farmboy from Kansas, raised with the good simple virtues of the farmer. Rey is a scavenger in a much more harsh “dog eat dog” world. The obvious way to make Rey different is to show her as a much more hardened, cynical character as a result (more Han, less Luke). Disney probably worried this portrayal would not make her likable. It didn’t hurt to make Tony Stark a bit of an asshole in Iron Man…but I digress.

The point is Rey should have been far more tempted to the Dark Side then Luke because of the environment she was raised in. Come to think of it, in SW77, Luke is pretty much a golden boy. We never get a sense that he could ever be “seduced” by the darkside. We are told in the later films of the dangers, but I honestly never felt there was real tension in ESB or ROTJ that Luke would turn evil, at least until Vader threatened Leia right at the end of the Trilogy.

Rodney-2187 said:

“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the proposed domination of the author." - Tolkien

A nice quote. A reviewer once praised Star Wars for its concepts BECAUSE they were so vague. That allowed it reach the widest possible audience. This was particularly true in regards to The Force (at least in the OT). The concept behind it was so vague that person could read any religion into that suited their egos…er, I mean spiritual journeys.

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Absolutely. Finn was by far my favorite character in TFA. It’s a shame what they did to John Boyega. His character had so much potential. Plus, who better to fit the message of “Heroes can come from anywhere” than a former Stormtrooper?

What happened to Boyega?

I just mean the way they deliberately sidelined his character, in later drafts of TFA as well as in the next two sequels, after JJ initially cast him to be the male lead. There’s a great video that goes into detail about it by this guy called Okiro. The video’s called “Finn, the Lost Protagonist.”

Yeah, he certainly seemed to be poised as Rey’s love interest at the end of TFA. Then they just dropped that whole angle in TLJ and tried to (sort of) put it back in ROS…but not really

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Absolutely. Finn was by far my favorite character in TFA. It’s a shame what they did to John Boyega. His character had so much potential. Plus, who better to fit the message of “Heroes can come from anywhere” than a former Stormtrooper?

What happened to Boyega?

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Servii said:

Personally, however, I prefer the RotJ duel because of what’s at stake in the moment. The scene isn’t really about the physical fight itself. It’s a spiritual battle between Light and Dark. The sword swinging is really just a backdrop to the struggle in both Luke and Anakin’s hearts against the absolute evil of the Emperor. And I always get chills when Luke shouts “Never!” and the chilling music starts. The choir that sings both during Luke’s outburst and when Anakin is about to save his son is really stunning.

Me too! I also love the music - the weird synthesizer when Vader (holding Luke’s lightsaber BTW!) is looking for Luke in the shadows, then the chorus when Luke unleashes his anger.

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber and it doesn’t matter that he is getting senior citizens discounts. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

A huge issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss. But time heals all wounds I supposed. I totally dismiss the PT as canonical, and have done so for a long time. I already dismiss the ST the same way in my mind, but not yet in my heart. Not yet. Follow me?

Servii said:

TLJ Luke would have been fine if it was an alternate timeline/interpretation of the character, rather than being labelled as the definitive, hard canon Luke. The Scorsese film The Last Temptation of Christ was very controversial among Christians for its depiction of a flawed, confused, very human Jesus. But the film goes out of its way to make clear to the audience that its an alternate interpretation of Jesus as a way of exploring deeper concepts through the character. The film doesn’t claim to offer the definitive, most Biblically accurate version of Jesus that everyone must accept as canon. It’s just one director’s hypothetical take on the character in a standalone film. The divisive reaction to that movie reminds me a lot of the divisive reaction to Luke in TLJ. But the difference is that TLJ is a sequel, and it leaves no alternative versions available. It’s been set in stone as the official canon fate of Luke Skywalker. That’s a big part of why so many people have rejected that version of Luke.

In theory, many of the Special Edition changes are fine. The problem is just that they are poorly implemented and that the mid 90’s CGI has aged so badly. If there was any time that Lucas should have made and released the Special Editions, it should have been after the prequels were made instead of before, with the original version of the OT ideally being shown in theaters a year or so before TPM as a sort of recap.

Each trilogy is best treated as its own complete story rather than lumping them all together as a Saga that often contradicts itself with very different creative visions. (Even young George Lucas and old George Lucas aren’t really in accord with one another on a lot of things.)

Lucasfilm should loosen its approach to canon, so that the franchise can be treated as more of a loose mythology rather than a definite sequence of hard canon events. In fact, it might be a good idea to bring back the idea of “levels of canon” like we had with the old EU.

I like you Servii and I hope you stick around this place. Did you know that Arthur C. Clarke specifically said that each of his 2001 sequels existed separately from each other in their own universes?

Some of us, including myself, feel that SW77 is really a separate entity from EVERYTHING that followed.

Servii said:

I always liked the idea of the 6 films being Anakin’s story, but after rewatching the OT, it became the clear that that was never meant to be the case originally. If the prequels had been made first, the OT would have been written extremely differently, especially the character of Vader. Vader in ANH is not really at the center of the story. And there’s nothing in the OT to suggest that Vader is a child of prophecy. He was simply a powerful Jedi who betrayed the Order to the Empire, and also had a son and daughter that were hidden from him and the Emperor. His importance to the story came from his high ranking in the Empire, his status as a traitor to the Jedi Order, and his relationship to Luke. It was the prequels that tried to attach much greater importance to Anakin and to make him the center of the story and main character of the saga. But the Anakin we were given wasn’t strong enough to really fill that role. Even George himself at one point said that Vader was meant to be ultimately a pathetic character. A sickly, deformed man in a metallic suit who betrayed everything he’d once stood for and made enemies of his best friend and his own children.

The 9-part saga feels very disjointed now, because the PT and ST both try to redefine the saga in ways that don’t line up with each other or the OT. Lucasfilm has tried to push the idea that the saga is about the Skywalker family as a whole, but in the end, they’re mostly irrelevant to the final outcome of Episode IX.

As Ewan McGregor correctly noted, there is the OT…and then there is everything else. And everything else mostly sucks.

Pittrek

G&G-Fan said:

Luke may be the protagonist of the original trilogy alone, but the whole overarching (pre-Disney) saga is about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin.

I just threw up in my mouth. The OT and PT do not match up well at all. Nor does the OT and the ST. The OT was designed around Luke and it was later Lucas nonsense that tried to tie it into the PT and make the 6 films about Vader.

If the PT was going to be about anyone, it should have been about Obi-wan and his failure to train Anakin/Vader properly.

I honestly have no clue as to what the ST is about, thanks to it having no over-arching vision or purpose.

JadedSkywalker said:

The 1990s pre prequel era is the era i remember the most fondly. Reading the books and comics, playing Super Star Wars games, watching the video cassette tapes in my VCR.

I’m right there with you Jaded. TPM sort of marked the end of an era. Or perhaps it would be better said that it was the first nail in the coffin for Old Star Wars.

But what I liked most? That one is easy: Jedi could have children and families.

I always envisioned the Jedi as more Knights rather than Monks. Kind of like these guys: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Knight

Resurrecting this thread!

So pre-1978:

1. Do we have an idea of when the Clone Wars took place, how many there were, who were the parties involved?

2. Who are The Sith?

3. Who is Darth Vader? What role does he have in The Empire?

I will speculate a little.

First, it seems that the Clone Wars were intended to happen before The Empire was formed and that Obi-Wan is really, really old. In the novelization of Star Wars Luke is astonished that Obi-wan fought in them (“But that was so long ago!”). So Obi is actually older than he looks. He looks say 65, but maybe is like 85.

Luke’s (unnamed) father was probably a peer of Vaders. Both Vader and Daddy Skywalker were maybe half of Obi-wans age.

There is no notion that Obi-wan was responsible for Vader’s fall.

skyjedi2005

Anyone else a fan of this series?

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

RicOlie_2 said:

It’s very sad. This place isn’t what it used to be.

I was bored and went into some old threads. I found that this site seems to be in its third stage. Around the years 2008-2009 or so you had some original members (from 2003) complaining about how all the “old members” were gone and the place wasn’t the same. Many of them (Darthchaltab etc.) stopped posting around then, or a few years later (psychodavy). End of OT.com The Early Years.

Then TVs Frink and Duracell (among others) came along and the site (or at least the Off Topic and Film areas) was/were rejuvenated. OT.com The Next Generation

Then 10/18 happened - a whole bunch of active members got banned and other active members left in response.

Just for clarity; for anyone unfamiliar with situation at that time, and now reading this…

a ‘whole bunch of active members got banned’? It was 3 members who were banned… Collipso (who’d been here around a year), Possessed, and TV’s Frink - Detention Block AA-23 : The OT.com’s Banned Members.

10/18 didn’t just ‘happen’ - if I recall… it was a ‘final straw’ type-situation in a lengthy & ongoing state of affairs for at least one, maybe two, of the members above.
 

Then 12/20 happened - more active members (chainsawash etc.) got banned. End of The Next Generation (?)

Now I’m humming the ST:TNG theme in my head 👍

2 members were banned - Chainsaw and dahmage both announced their leaving of the site before they were banned (with continuing attacks on members / site / site staff in their ‘leaving’ posts; resulting in their bans afterwards).

Like ‘10/18’, that didn’t just ‘happen’ either.
 

The same with Duracell sometime afterwards.
 

It seems we are in the third stage of OT.com. So far it is a lot less fun.

If you feel this way then why not contribute to help make this section of the site more fun?

As others on here have said previously… many sites and forums that also now have a Discord have seen participation reduce in their Off Topic, General Discussion or The Boozer sections. The upshot seems to be the same here - the OT Discord seems to be doing well with a number of members actively participating / shooting the breeze on there - more so on there than here in The Cantina.

Maybe that’ll change again over time…
 

I am aware of the circumstances regarding the bans. The point is that there was a ripple effect when they happened because those members drove a lot of the discussions around here and drew others into participating.

Is discord, at least here on OT.com, mostly text chats? I prefer it to vid or voice. I kind of like to have an image of what members are like, without really knowing what they look and sound like. Does that make me a weirdo? 😃

TV’s Frink posted, on average, 19 times a day!

19!!

Per day!!

RicOlie_2 said:

Yeah, that’s pretty accurate. The Star Wars sections of this site are still pretty active, but Off Topic has yet to revive. Maybe one day… But that doesn’t mean it’ll be as fun as it used to be. No moderation meant things got pretty delightfully ridiculous at times and there was a repertoire of inside jokes/forum memes that will be lost to time.

I’m not sure if those sections really are that active. There was a time when a new topic would get many responses in a day. Now you might go days without any replies.

To be expected I guess. Star Wars is mostly played out I think.

There is a Woke mentality that had crept into this place too. Tends to stifle any real debate, since real debate might cause offense. And to the Woke mentality being offensive means being hateful, which is being harmfull…and I am going to stop there before random thoughts goes the way of the politics thread.

NeverarGreat said:

Star Wars has always been political.

And if fighting against fascism offends the political sensibilities of some viewers, then they should be offended.

Zombie84 wrote the Secret History of Star Wars; the best source for what these films are all about. Comic books and Lensmen are the main inspiration. Any politics are tangential to the action. And any Heroes Journey stuff is window dressing at best. And the fight against some sort of tyranny is an old trope, just to give all the fun action some sort of rough framework.