thejediknighthusezni

   The Seven Samurai- MAGNIFICENT!!

   ^ Some great ideas in there. I especially like that you seem to be keeping your characters under grave threat at nearly all times. Best to avoid big blocks where nobody is facing an immediate possibility of great harm and or failure. The protagonists are there to be profoundly worried as much as possible :)

EatonB said:

Finished it guys - please take a look and enjoy!!!!  Hope you like my ideas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDbD-hBX3E

     IIRC, The original concept for the ESB was that ships would moor close to the surface like dirigibles and discharge passengers and cargo over ramps.

     I like the Vader stays on the SSD and communicates with Jer by holo idea. It saves the reveal for later.

     Luke could escape on the Emp's throne. Deck covers could lift and two halves of a heavily armored escape pod could close over Luke. Vader would know how to activate it from observation of construction. Only room for one?

     To the extent that the prequels didn't meet the expectations of many dedicated fans, I think GL was trying to wear too many hats.

     He was trying to serve as the next Rodenberry/Asimov/Stan Lee.

     He was trying to serve as the driving force in FX developement.

     He was trying to serve as the one to pick up the Walt Disney mantel.

     He has been astoundingly successful in each of those fields individually.

     Taken together, inconsistencies were created.

    There's the hologram thing (Bingowings?) mentioned before. I suppose that would fall under the rubric of things GL might have considered between '77 and '84.

    Is 3PO masked out of the Boush business? Is he changed to another color and voice? Do the droids enter after Boush? Change some 3PO and holo-Luke dialog?

     I'm lovin' these Luke on Dag ideas, BTW :)

crazyrabbits said:

My thoughts about the scenes:

Vaporator/Tosche Station: Good cut - the station sequence ran way too long. They could have kept Luke's original introduction at the vaporator, though.

Blue Milk: This was probably just shot for transitional purposes. Don't see what the point is.

Full Biggs/Luke Reunion: I love Red Leader's dialogue - it makes me wish he was a supporting character in the prequels.

Luke's Recovery: I quite like this scene. I felt that the recovery sequence in the finished film was too short and didn't convey the sense of concern the group had for Luke.

Luke And Leia In The Medical Center: The heavy flirtation (and almost-kiss) was a great removal. The subsequent conversation (where Leia is exasperated to find that everyone wants to split up) should have stayed in.

General Veers' Death: I don't think it would have added much to the final battle.

Leia Tends to Luke: Pacing. It runs way too long and makes Luke seem flippant about Han's circumstances (the way Hamill says "Poor Han..." is almost anticlimactic).

Vader Talks To Luke/New Lightsaber: Had the goofy "Luuuukkkkee... Luuuuuukkkkkee..." remarks been reduced or removed entirely, this could have been a great scene.

Jerjerrod's Conflict: The first scene is acted very poorly - Jerjerrod's actor doesn't sell being choked, while Vader looks like he's doing the Pledge of Allegiance when he puts his hand to his chest. Still, I love Jerjerrod's sneer when he says, "YOU may not enter." The second sequence is decent, but it would have killed the pacing of the final battle (that, and it was clearly intended to be a reprise of the Yavin 4 countdown from ANH).

     Vaporator/Tosche Station: I'm not a fan of Luke's hat. It doesn't work with his Karate outfit, imo. If it could be altered.... I don't need to see Luke being called "Wormie." Not a fan of Biggs' outfit either. I never thought that two of the dozen reb pilots being from the most remote backwater system was very credible- good cut imo. If Biggs' outfit and face could be altered, it might be possible to sneak in some good expo ;/- and the others are great. Or, could take Biggs out of the DS attack ;/ Or, just for fun, just alter the hat and outfit and cut it down. Grindhouse would be fun.

     Blue Milk: THX ref? So short I doubt it would hurt anything. It's fun. It could be cut even shorter.

     Biggs/Luke reunion: From the same system?

     Luke's Recovery: I'd definitely like to see it.

     Luke/Leia Med Center: Needs to be cut a bit- but great interaction! :) A bit might be added to the prequels about the droids watching the two and making sure they don't get into trouble. Great interuption.

     Veer's Death: Oh well.

     Leia Tends to Luke: Would need alot of trimming. Luke's reactions could be trimmed to seem less flippant. "Poor Han." to just a louder " Oh, Han!" It's not necessary but adds some interest for an edit. 

     Vader/Luke New Sabre: Has anyone tried moving that to Dagobah? Replace Luke watching Yoda? After death?

     Jerjerrod and Vader: My favorite! I love the attempt to retaliate after being owned by Vader at the start. Needs a faster pace, imo. Quick cut to Jer sneering while telling him no, a quick cut to the Emp sitting quietly on his throne, back to being choked a couple beats before explaining, cobble some JEJ audio to get a sarcastic "Apology accepted." type remark. Maybe darken the whole scene and polish Vader to make it more ominous.

Angel said:

TheoOdo said:

Also, I feel the invasion sequences of Naboo needs to be made more ominous. Currently, the lighting is very cheery (at best neutral) daylight.

Mock-up:

I did this kind of mockups back then similar to yours. Giving TPM a more serious tone. Not sure if anyone remembers them :)

Forgive the naboo ship shot :/

 

-Angel

 

      Those are very beautiful! Great to see the weather match the action.

Bingowings said:

It might be possible to replace Yoda with another character in the few instances where a character in an essential scene is necessary for reaction purposes.

He could also contact the other Jedi as a disembodied telepathic voice from a hidden area for the duration of the PT (like Vader does to Luke in ESB).

      Sounds like the hologram trick.

      Queen of Naboo in makeup? Admiral Akbar with a brief report of the galactic military situation? Senator Mothma?

      Qui as another disembodied voice? Sends Obi to Yoda?

    Very interesting idea.

    Watching the deterioration from war could go a long way towards explaining Ani's turn.

Sepharih said:

 

 

jonathan7 said:

Here's a question...

Do you think Tatooine could be entirely recut so that our first introduction to Anakin is the Podrace... i.e. Qui-Gon goes to Mos Eisley and ends up watching the Podrace and seeing Anakin win? Tatooine I think is one of the massive weaknesses of TPM; Could his Jedi mind trick on Watto be changed to work? (It is ridiculous that Republic credits aren't accepted; the Republic would surely of been a bit like America and it's dollar in that smaller countries many would accept the dollar as currency - especially gambling dens).

It's an interesting concept....but I don't know how you would best execute it....and it does have problems.

You could have watto imply that while credits are accepted, they don't quite have enough for a new hyper-drive.  Somehow imply that It's not easy to get access to the queen and/or jedi's funds without drawing attention.....so they instead turn to betting on the podraces and qui-gon while there senses something special about the underdog in the race.....a little human boy with odds a 100 to 1 against him.  Effectively the same plot as before....but trimming around the corners and removing the subplot with anakin and cutting to the chase.

It'd take a lot of tricky editing.....but you might be able to pull it off.

The biggest problem I foresee with this is that it might wind up removing whatever tension there is in the podrace since the viewer effectively has no idea who Anakin is as a character or why they should care about him.

Done correctly it could be a good introduction to the character.....but i'm just not sure that the material for it is there.

I think you'll still need some kind of moment between him and the other characters beforehand, and the podrace should be edited to focus less on the tension and danger anakin is in and more on demonstrating how daring and even crazy he is.

 

       Ani could first appear in his pod on the way to the race. He could have a confrontation with Sebulba and encounter the refugees. Then they all go directly to the race. Or, They could encounter Watto on the way to the race and place a quick wager?;/

     ^^I've always found the Aldaaran destruction extremely harsh (maybe that's why it was so effective;/)

      I've imagined a scenario where Tarkin dismissively orders to be taken to the nearest troublesome system. Leia is then pleading for another people. She could collapse a bit like Ben. Then the DS proceeds to Aldaaran and the X-wings jump in to save it (GL's draft) 

      I think the ANH duel provided important expo. It gave us a strong sense of the conflict and existance of the Force.

xhonzi said:

Yoda is not a warrior, he is a trainer.  That's why he's not involved in the clone wars.

The real problem is that when we all saw ANH and the first half of ESB- the only "jedi" we'd seen were adult male human warriors.  (Ben, Luke and Vader).  The idea that this little smurf could be not only a jedi, but a powerful jedi held in reserve by the most powerful jedi hitherto seen was not even considered.  We didn't say, "Oh, I bet that guy is Yoda" because How Could He Be?

Assuming there are more than a few jedi in your new PT, and assuming that they are not all adult male warriors... The possibilty that someone would guess that Yoda was Yoda is much higher even though Yoda is never seen nor heard (but possibly talked up) in your new PT.

To be clear: I am on the "Talk up Yoda, Don't show Yoda" team all the way.  It's easily done, in my opinion.  However, the other restictions required to really maintain the surprise are much more burdensome and you must ask yourself how committed to the surprise you are.

For the record: I am for preserving all surprises.  Not because there is an audience in the world that would be fooled by them today... but because not doing so seems like cheating and poor storytelling.

       My prequel notions are now headed in the direction of a meeting with Yoda. Yoda could suddenly appear as a harmless little creature and vex and annoy the Jedi candidates just as he did with Luke.

       The thing about that is, it would leave us with a Yoda surprise if we watch Hope and Empire first, while knowing the gag in the preqs- OR we would have a Yoda surprise in the prequels if watched first and then know the gag in Empire.

NP won the Academy Award.

I believe that her progress throughout the PT, culminating in her ROTS performance, had as much if not more to do with the Oscar as BlSw.

GL wrote and directed that character and developement...Just sayin' ;)

   The bonus discs would be in an unmarked brown paper wrapper ;)

    Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

    I was surprised by how good it was. Excellent origin story that covers the bases. Computer Images worked well for me, also.

    My Uncle lived in SanFran. He's the type of guy who couldn't help making lots of friends. I've been out there several times with my family. It was fun to see that beautiful area displayed on the big screen.

    5 well deserved balls out of 5.

     Speaking of bonus discs...

     I watched the THX 1138 SE recently. Outstanding restoration and enhancement.

     I'd like to see Amgraf and THX included in a SW saga set!

     I suppose that would create problems with the different studios and lost profit on the single sales.

     OTOH, it would make the saga sets even more appealing and provide vastly greater distribution and awareness for those two great films.

       My great yearning for A SHRUBBERY!!!(but don't spend too much:)

       There might have been a few other reasons ;)

    FOCUS ON CLONE WARS?

    Yes. In ep1, Clones and originals fight together in hordes to spread their ideology to other systems. The clone supporters on the invaded planets join in.

    HOW DOES CLONING BECOME IRRELEVANT BY ANH?

     Accelerated aging could be a consequence of the cloning process - they die off. They might be expensive to produce well, so when the Empire gains greater control they are willing to use originals for a constabulary force.

     HOW IS ClONING LIMITED?

     Cloning Force-wielders might not have the optimum effects or too expensive for the very few strong Force-wielders it produces. Only a handful will become very strong.

    OBI TRAINED BY YODA- ANI TRAINED BY OBI?

     No and Yes. If they must be consistent with the OT, Obi would be the "Kay" character and already a master. 

    HOW MANY YEARS BEFORE ANH? HOW OLD ARE THE MAIN CHARACTERS?

     Ani and Pamey 17 to 30 in ep1, Obi/Kay about 40.

    18-22 years before ANH.

    HOW ARE THE SURPRISES PROTECTED?

     5 ep saga. 34125 viewing order. Sister-maybe Yoda-yes

     SITH-DARK-REBEL FORCE WIELDERS?

     Yes. Dark jedi are decieved and drawn in to protect their homeworlds. They decieve themselves partly. Lust for the power of taking revenge and make things "good" and jealousy for what they value drag them deeper into corruption.

      Rebel Jedi: OBI-Kay and Pamey and another apprentice rebel to help the free-worlds who want to stop both the clone empire and a too powerful Republic that could fall to the Stol or others. Pamey becomes the founder of the OT Alliance.

     Sith: Yes. No formal rule of two. The Sith compete to draw in as much dark side power as possible. The ultimate Sith master draws far more than any other. Willing to tolerate multiple apprentices in theory but in practice it boils down to two. They kill each other off in competition. The Sith is an ancient sect that believes the "True Light" only becomes clear and focused within the greatest darkness (Lusts for power and posession over others) They claim they are the true Lightsiders. Concealment and confusion of what they truly are, and thier true aims, are articles of faith with them. Fooling people is an expression of power and they delight in it.

     HOW MANY JEDI?

     No more than 3000, no less than 800.

     GALAXIE'S RESPONSE TO JEDI.

      Only a minute fraction of the trillions in the galaxy ever see a Jedi in action. Widespread disbelief in their power. The Jedi hate to display force ability unnecessarily. Leads to pride and lust and fear and rejection. Frees leaders want Jedi assistence. Cents claim to want their help but leaders want them gone to rule the galaxy. Stol and Clone Party want them dead as representing old order.

    HOW DOES THE EMPIRE RISE?

    Very suddenly (Like many revolutions) The Stol keep representation in the Senate and are supported by many other worlds which favor a move to a clone galaxy incrementally or some by revolution. In ep1 the opposition to the clone supporting worlds is a disparate group of interests. Civil war in and over coruscant (DZ and here). Desperate turn to Sen palp and sen Tarko who were barely seen as two voices among many in ep1. Call in the new Pru fleet and army. A three or four way duel with Denon Palps and Yoda or Kay (POTC CW AOTC).

    JEDI DRESS?

    Robes at least for the masters (Judicial branch as well as spiritual). Might do black. Could do a different cut. under the robes, for fighting, a uniform that might enable survival in space for short periods.;/ High boots. Might always wear gloves (space and protect hands in duels) All looks medieval and retro-spacey.

   MAIN PROTAGNISTS?

   Ani and Pamey both. Third and fourth movies up the ante from Luke centric ANH. Obi-Kay is also important. 'AG' sort of thing folowing different pairs as much as possible. Ep 1 the droids have a strong point of view and stay together as much as possible. 

     I thought the story of Apple computor suing MS over the Mac GUI was amusing. They got the basic idea from Xerox.  It's all LFL property. Only they should profit from their iconic symbols. They are trademarks of a sort. LFL should hire whomever they please to develope their universe.

    A double-feature

    Labyrinth (first time I've seen it.) There's something to be said for puppets. It might be interesting to see a fan-edit of this film to make the pace and story arc a bit more like 'WOOz' and to tighten it up a little.

    The Black Hole (Disney '79) There's something to be said for matte paintings. Takes me back to when I was a kid.

       If I may add...

        I can imagine a scenario where a remake might produce an undesired result.

       I thought 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory' was allright. I didn't think it was quite as good as 'Willy Wonka'.

       How many young parents, who have never seen the original, and felt underwhelmed by the remake, will now pass by both films? 

       OTH, a remake that falls short would enhance the reputation of the classic original for many people.

       Also, a remake that equals or exceeds it's beloved original should enhance the reputation of both.

       'Articulating Muzzel' (;{))

      "...LET THERE BE LIGHT..."

       The very last images of ANH are of the conflict that must continue between Luke and Vader, and then of Luke and Han aproaching as heroes on equal terms to stand before Leia.

       The final glimpses of ESB reveal the true nature of the dilemma between father and son, and then the broken trio yearning to find a way to reunite in harmony.

       The conclusion of ROTJ presents the resolutions to both conflicts. The nature of the entire OT is reflected backwards. All is realized. It will become what it was meant to be.

 I've actually posted a thread on this topic in scriptwriting forum.

   "SW Saga Remake" is a bit misleading because I was considering a remake for the OT, and more of a "re-imagining" for the PT.

     For me, it wasn't originally a question of whether remakes are good ideas. SW was a billion+ franchise. I had the notion that an OT remake was about as inevitable as the sun rising in the east in the morning.

     I agree that books aren't the most appropriate medium. For film, I'd say a tentative "Maybe".

     People's perception of classic films should not be played with lightly. If there is an honest attempt to produce something improved, and if the original is available in good quality, I see no real harm in it. Don't extensive fan-edits, with their re-ordering of scenes and additions and subtractions of elements, amount to remakes of a sort? Do they detract from the existence of the original? 

     SW was a very powerful event for my generation. It belongs to my generation. Perhaps the succeeding generations should have the opportunity to adopt a SW of their own.

     Beyond that, I'd like to see Hollywood make a concerted attempt to redeem those films which were promising in concept, but disappointing in execution.