thecolorsblend

thedaner said:

This will never happen, but just once--ONCE I would like to hear GL say "you know I DID plan a nine-part saga.  Years later I changed my mind."  That might make me smile...

Easterhay said:

Well, I can only refer you back to what I said before - I would question their level of maturity.

msycamore said:

Can you tell me where the hell such dismissiveness for film preservation came from in the first place?! A view like that is so out there and so completely foreign to me that I feel that I need to ask.

Easterhay said:

thecoloursblend. Sounds like you go to the same cinemas as zombie. I saw each of the prequels twice each - no laughter at any of those serious moments we've been talking about. Sounds like you went to lots of screenings in lots of different places, though.

Easterhay said:

Maybe the audiences with whom I saw the films are not so easily amused. (I have absolutely no idea what "Palpatine's Gollum moment" is.)

Easterhay said:

I've heard a lot of people found the end of ROTK moving (that line "You bow to no-one" gets a lot of plaudits), I just remember feeling "When is this going to end?". A whole cinema laughing at one line in ROTS, though? Well, that's a new one on me, I must say. Maybe the acoustics made it sound like it was more people than it truly was. I saw the movie twice at the cinema and not a titter did I hear at that scene. Just goes to show you, eh?

Easterhay said:

I wouldn't attach too much importance to the Oscars, you know, zombie. A lot of that voting is purely political. I'm not saying LOTR didn't deserve its awards - it probably did - but I think to ignore the technical achievements of the SW prequels was petty and undeserved. These are the same people who showered Titanic with awards, remember.

If Lucas had deleted midichlorians, "ex-squeeeeeze me", poo jokes and fart jokes from the movie, I firmly believe fans wouldn't have been so hostile. They may not have loved the movie but those things seem to be the common denominators that pushed everybody over the edge. It's the difference between mob unrest and a full scale riot. And, speaking as someone who enjoys the prequels, those things are indefensible. Maybe the whiners did behave like children but you can't argue they didn't have a point at least on those elements.

My Empire Strikes Back/R2D2 droid phone has a variety of R2 ring tones and sound effects. All are pretty good.

Davnes007 said:

thecolorsblend said:

Oh?

"The Force is strong in my family. My father had it. I have it. And my sister has it."

Explain.

You see, Darth Vader (aka Anakin Skywalker) had sex with Padme. About 90 minutes after he found out, she gave birth to a boy (Luke), and a girl (Leia).

Therefore, the 'force' (that was strong in Anakin) was passed down to his children.

Presumably, Luke and Leia's children will also inherit the 'force' to some degree.

Hm. So you're saying the concept of the Force being a hereditary/genetic trait was set up before TPM? Very interesting.

I wonder why McCallum is so annoying. Is it how he kept the prequel productions running smoothly? Was it butting heads with Lucas about making parts of Episode III's production more difficult than it needed to be? Was it how he helped secure Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman and Liam Neeson for their roles? Probably because he did his share of spin-doctoring, people want to treat McCallum like he was just another yes man but seems to me like he was a production manager more than a creative contributor, and he's never claimed otherwise. I realize Gary Kurtz is thought to walk on water and everything but can we try to be objective here?

You_Too said:

BmB said:

That in itself is one of the better strokes of genius in the PT.

Turning it into science?

Remember these lines from SW:

- Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fortr...
- I find your lack of faith disturbing.

How come that they called Vader a sorcerer and the Force an ancient religion, if it was already proved by science many years before? That's not a stroke of genius, that's a major continuity error which the PT added.

Oh?

"The Force is strong in my family. My father had it. I have it. And my sister has it."

Explain.

I think this petition now has a lot more input than it did before. This was never a lost cause but now more than ever there's reason for hope. Yeah, if we keep the pressure on, sooner or later Disney will cave.

I accuse Frink of secretly loving the prequels.

Baronlando said:

From what I've heard, sales of any blu ray that isn't a new release have been shockingly low, and not getting significantly better. I don't see how  that can continue for too long but I'd like to be wrong. Supposedly even always-reliable titles like Wizard of Oz and Godfather fell way, way below projections. 

Good! It's way too late in the game for BluRay to wither on the vine but I don't think most people were ready for an upgrade. A lot of them were probably perfectly content with DVD. I sure was.

I was too young to see any of the OT in theaters except ROTJ, but a tornado thwarted that. Long, pointless story, that one.

Anyway. As a really young kid, I liked ANH the most exactly because it was so accessible. At closer to 9 or 10, I preferred ROTJ. In all cases, I thought ESB was a bore.

When I was in college, obviously it was all about ESB. And as favorites go, that hasn't changed. But... I dunno. I watch ANH now and I just cherish it. Does that make sense? I just can't take my eyes off the damn thing.

Whatever it is, I hope it includes "Requiem" in there somewhere so that people will stop using that goddamn word all the time.

My gripe is that ANH and ESB showed the rebels bickering with each other all the time while they acted like the Superfriends in ROTJ. It was like all the conflict between everybody got encased in carbonite and forgotten about. Say whatever you want about TPM but Qui-Gon butted heads at various times with the Jedi Council, Queen Amidala, Obi-Wan, Captain Panaka and probably other people even though they were all supposed to be on the same side.

Before the Ewoks adopted the rebels, they were badass. They were about ready to grill up smugglers with a side of Jedi at first. But after they adopted Han, Luke and Leia, they just became too cutesy.

The second Death Star... look, I'll acknowledge it serves a different purpose this time around. In ANH, it was the dragon to be slain. In ROTJ, it was the labyrinth, the hell/netherworld the hero must venture into to rescue somebody. But at the end of the day, they don't look all that differently or serve a much different purpose in either story.

Leia discovered that Adolf Hitler is her father and... what, just forgets it? If anybody found out Hitler was a great grandfather or something, they'd have some kind of reaction, even if it was destroy all the evidence and "silence" anybody who might know.

Harrison Ford basically slept through the movie.

Speaking of which, the stuff with Jabba and rescuing Han seems like padding. The rebels had to rescue Han but the ordeal feels a little dragged out.

Don't get me wrong, ROTJ has a lot going for it. The stuff with Vader, Luke and the Emperor is the dramatic high point of the entire saga as far as I'm concerned (but only with Shaw as Anakin's ghost) and the space battle hasn't been topped.

Even at my most SE-loving period, I never understood why someone would want the oh-riginals to be suppressed. Apart from that, a lot of the technical info in the various threads around will pretty much spell out the technical superiority of the OUT vs. other editions.

The thing to remember is that the prequels will never match up with the original trilogy, continuity-wise. Trying to force them together is doomed to failure. So I just accept that they don't completely match up with each other and forget about it.

AOTC Domestic Gross- $302,191,252
AOTC Production Budget- $115 million (officially; unofficially, people with no reason to lie assure me the budget for all the prequels was closer to $100 mill even)

Anybody who's ashamed of those numbers should have his head examined. It more than doubled the production budget in both the domestic and international territories. Frankly, AOTC was in some ways always the riskiest movie. Episode I was going to benefit from being the first Star Wars movie in a long time and Episode III would benefit from having most of the cool stuff people were waiting for. But AOTC was destined to do least because it had the least riding on it in terms of public expectations and marketing. It hit a lower figure than TPM, no doubts there, but I don't think many people found that too surprising.

nightstalkerpoet said:

I mean no offense by this, honestly, but both of you (Easterhay and thecolorsblend-I've enjoyed your insights) need to quit worrying so much.

As the Star Wars landscape has changed, so have a lot of people's views. With the announcement of the sale to Disney, I've seen a dramatic shift in what people think of George Lucas, and I never thought that would happen. While most people agree that they want him to stay out of their ST, a lot of people have gone back to thoroughly loving him for the OT and his support on fan projects, and simply regard the PT as an affair that we're all just trying to forget about. He gave away his right to release the OUT, so there is no longer any reason to be angry with him that it's not being released.

Likewise, compare the hate of the PT now to 8 years ago - Fanedits have risen that damn near make these GOOD movies, even if they'll never reach the level of the OT. People who used to believe that the PT was unsaveable are now the very people who are trying to save them, making as many suggestions as possible to every edit thread that pops up. Consider how many people are waiting in the wings for the PT Revisited that refuse to watch them right now. 

People are almost never prepared to change their minds, but it happens all the time. Everyone just needs that one well worded argument to penetrate their minds and fester for a while. Likewise, even now I'm trying to change your opinion on this forum's ability to weather different opinions. While I understand your choice not to mess with what you believe is the "status quo", I think you are misreading the situation. Let down your hair, sir. Enjoy the party :)

Fair enough. But nobody wants to be that annoying son of a bitch who doesn't adhere to the basic premise of a forum.

And yes, minds change all the time. I used to be fully on board with the Special Editions. Hey, why not? Let the guy complete the movies according to his vision with modern technology. Two things changed my mind- the GOUT DVD's and the Blu-Rays.

GOUT gave me a fresh appreciation for how amazing those original versions really are. Every single shot oozes vision and inspiration, especially ANH and Empire. No, those discs aren't perfect but they're still pretty good.

The Blu-Rays pushed me over the edge. How freaking many times must he tweak things to satisfy "his original vision"? What, ILM can animate a CG Jar Jar running around acting a fool and a CG Watto mouthing off to Qui-Gon but not a CG Yoda who does nothing except sit on his butt? George didn't have the time, money or technology to do it "right" the first time? Sorry but I don't buy it. And don't even get me started on the additional changes to the OT (lightsaber problems persist through out all the movies but now we have blinking Ewoks!!).

One thing that interested me in this was that people disliked the presentation of the Jedi. They saw what Lucas was going for but didn't like the basic premise. I can respect that they at least see the concept. It's different if they think there wasn't a concept to it. But not liking the Jedi being portrayed as out of touch, know-it-all douchebags who got exactly what they deserved is preference. And I don't have a problem with that.

I think the answer is that Lucas had a lot more enthusiasm for Star Wars back then than he does now.

NeverarGreat said:

Luke and Han's preliminary goals in ANH are there because they are torn between the world that they know and the world of adventure. The first step of Luke's journey is to reject the goals imposed by his uncle and achieve his destiny, whereas Han's journey is in doing something that isn't for money. He decides not to return to Jabba, and instead joins the Rebellion. When the goals imposed by Owen become irrelevant, Luke makes a firm decision to become a Jedi. When Han decides to return and help the rebellion, we don't hear a firm decision. Naturally he will have second thoughts in ESB.

I'm not trying to be hard on the prequels because I think that the Original Trilogy is perfect in every way. Han probably could have paid back Jabba and still helped the rebellion, just as Anakin could have probably freed his mother and still trained to be a Jedi.

Anakin became a Jedi Knight based on a lie. The council wouldn't have done it if they knew he was married. The marriage ceremony and clone army scenes at the end of episode 2 send a single message: failure. It isn't like the scene at the end of ESB where our heroes know that they've made mistakes, and must work to right them. It is that Anakin and the entire senate and Jedi order are already defeated, and even they know it. You might as well end the trilogy there, as it is obvious what will happen.

Parts of my comments were meant more in jest than anything. Still, you raise valid points. With the acknowledgement that freeing the slaves wasn't one of Anakin's big goals, I agree with what you say. But that's the exact point. Episode II is called Attack of the Clones. The Republic is the aggressor in that conflict. Sure, the Separatists are led by greedy, conniving puppets but is every single one of those star systems equally evil? I doubt it. All most of 'em probably want is a fair shot and they don't see that happening under the Republic so they want out. As you say, the militarization of the Republic proves the game of democracy and freedom is over.

The Jedi have sold out their ideals to a system built on greed and perpetuated by the same. Qui-Gon (noble, competent, a strong sense of what's right) is what the Jedi should be; Yoda (deceitful, obstinate, dishonest) is what they are. Ensconced in their literal ivory tower, the Jedi were complicit in their own destruction. If the Jedi had given Anakin a single iota of validation and enfranchisement, there's every reason to think things could have turned out differently.

And understand, I'm not arguing the prequels were perfect. Far from it. But the stuff above is a big part of why I like them in general.

On a personal note, I'm defending the prequels (this aspect anyway) on a forum mostly filled with people I respect but who don't like them. So in deference to most of their preferences, this is probably my last post about this.

McFlabbergasty said:

Pics NAO.

Williarob said:

This weeks Entertainment Weekly has 5 tips on how Disney can make Star Wars Sequels that won't suck, and I think they are pretty good.

Really? I think #1 and #2 on that list suck.

Easterhay said:

Utapau wasn't CGI.

Neither were parts of Coruscant in AOTC and Mustafar.

NeverarGreat said:

It's not the takes that were wrong (most were probably the best takes available). It's not the CG that was wrong (some shots were done well). It's not the line readings that were wrong (they mostly did a reasonable job with the material). It's not even the plot that was wrong (A political drama of galactic scale is inherently cool).

It's the philosophy that was wrong.

Truth is always found in Pure, Beautiful Simplicity. It doesn't matter if the surface of the movies looks good or not, it's the soul of the movies, the story, that matters. Luke had a goal (become a Jedi). He worked toward that goal (trained with Yoda). He found himself unable to continue (Vader was his father). He overcame this obstacle (redeemed Anakin Skywalker and became a Jedi).

In short, Luke had a worthy goal, and overcame his weaknesses to achieve it.

Anakin has several goals:

1. Explore all the stars in the universe.

2. Become a Jedi.

3. Return to Tatooine and free the slaves.

4. In particular, free his mother from slavery.

Right of the bat, his motives aren't very clear. He wants to leave, but he also wants to return, for example. Furthermore, he never achieves any of these goals except #2, and that happens somewhere off screen in between movies. Even then, he doesn't truly become a Jedi, as he is married to Padme in violation of the Jedi Code. By Episode 3, his original goals are irrelevant. It's difficult to care about a character who casts aside his own goals so lightly.

The original trilogy works because we can believe that Anakin Skywalker was once a good man. In the prequels, I can't imagine that Anakin was ever a good man.

A few things.

Much of what you describe are not goals of Anakin's, they were from a dream he had when he was a kid. And I don't mean that in the sense of highest aspirations he's placed on a pedestal and hopes to one day achieve. I mean they were literal dreams. He had too much jawa juice before bed one night and he dreamed he freed the slaves. The one real fantasy that he'd "always dreamed of" was becoming a Jedi which, as you say, he did accomplish.

But if we're talking about characters and goals... well, Luke never did make it to Toshi Station to pick up those power converters, he didn't take droids to Anchorhead for a memory wipe, he didn't have the droids in the field by mid-day, there wasn't hell to pay, Han never did get around to paying Jabba back (even though he had the money by the time credits rolled in ANH), etc etc etc.

I realize which forum I'm on and so this is probably barking up the wrong tree but let's be fair here...

nightstalkerpoet said:

And I truly think you could fix Hayden's Anakin.

I don't think it would even be very challenging, actually. There are at least a few AOTC deleted scenes that use production audio. His delivery sounds a lot more natural in many of those scenes.

Redoing/reintegrating all the CGI would probably result in a technically more superior end product by virtue of being newer. First, I don't think there's much of anything wrong with the effects in AOTC as they are and second the fact that it could probably done even better now doesn't (or shouldn't) suggest there was ever anything wrong with the original effects.