thecolorsblend

Harmy said:

It's in the works... ;-)

You, sir, are my new hero.

Easterhay said:

You are right, though, that none of the films are safe.  Now, where's the TPM restoration project?! 

That's something I could support. People can pick on the weird puppet Yoda in that movie all they want but dammit that's what the original cut had.

msycamore said:

The '97 Special Edition was often marketed "The way Lucas originally envisioned it". The simple truth is that most of it was research & development done for the upcoming prequels all paid for by Fox. That's why most of the updates are so random and out of place. If the new additions hurt the story or pacing never was a question it seems. And with this R&D approach you simply don't get a nice finished product, you cannot add or update one effect to state of the art of '97 and leave other effects state of the art of '77 untouched. So even the more nice looking CGI effects like the added sequence of the Falcon taking off from Mos Eisley feels largely out of place, not only does it hurt the pacing, make some earlier and subsequent effect shots look weak, the way it is shot simply don't mesh with the filmmaking style of the original film. In short, a Frankenstein monster...

Besides using these old classics as a vehicle for his R&D, you also have Lucas modern sensibilities for filmmaking that just boggles the mind; Greedo missing Han at point blank range, censoring of Imperials getting hit by laser fire, Luke screaming like a bitch (audio lifted from ROTJ) in his act of self-sacrifice in Cloud City, showing the audience exactly how Vader ends up on the Executor even though we all assumed he didn't use teleportation or flew from Cloud City like Superman, and on and on... often over-explaining to make sure we all see and hear what's going on, the wampa sequence is another. Except for the censoring, this is simply bad filmmaking, nothing left to your imagination, no subtlety allowed.

Yep. The one exception I might've been willing to make is the wampa cave sequence. If stuff like that informed all the changes that were made and they only fixed shit they never got working right to begin with (bad matte lines, two or three bad matte painting jobs, etc)... well, I'd probably still prefer the originals but I could at least see where Lucas is coming from.

The other thing though is that the changes alter the tone. Mos Eisley was originally a rough, barren, inhospitable town full of cut throats. Now it's a densely packed (by Tatooine standards) space port that has a few rough elements. Why would someone on the lam want to go to such a major, visible hub of travel? Wouldn't they prefer some place a little more out of the way and low key? The new Mos Eisley may look "better" (by some standards) but that doesn't mean it's improved.

Worst of all though, a lot of the changes have been done on the cheap. Bad enough to have unnecessary CGI and whatnot but when it's all done so poorly, it's adding insult to injury. "We can't be bothered to fix lightsaber problems that any idiot can see but, hey, look at this new song and dance sequence in Return of the Jedi!"

MathUser said:

Fuck you.

Pretty much, yeah, gotta agree.

AuggieBenDoggie said:

 

As far as sound goes I expect to see a 7.1 DTS Master Audio track and with any luck, an original 2.0 track.

 

 

To me, the original soundtrack(s) should be just as important as the original video. This should be a top priority for all of us.

For those more technically-minded, can those old school soundtrack just be slapped on to a Blu Ray or DVD or would they need a lot of work before being ready to listen to?

Heilemann said:

It seems every time I come back here to check out the latest from the greatest, the level of aggression and cynicism has grown exponentially. I know it's the Internet, but aren't we here because we supposedly like this whole Star Wars thing?

Yeah, there're a lot of issues of contention in the world of Star Wars, but when one of the recent threads practically pleads with people to not say anything negative, what does that say about the general vibe around here?

Anyway, just an observation. 

The majority of the members here grew up with the unaltered trilogy as one of the primary mythological constructs of their respective childhoods. The creator had been on record for years and years saying that these pieces of cinema history that completely reinvented that industry were incomplete hackjobs that will never again see the light of day or film projection bulb.

I can understand feelings of anger and despondence over those propositions. True, there is hope that Disney may fix that wrong... but they may not. It may well be part of their deal with Lucas to not release the unaltered trilogy. Who knows?

For me personally, my theory had long been that Katie Lucas would take over the LFL empire from dear ol' dad... and likely continue his policy of sitting on the originals. I firmly believe we have a better chance of getting the real editions of the trilogy from Disney than we ever would've from her. I therefore have a lot of hope.

thejediknighthusezni said:

      I'm one of those who believes that successful entrepreneurs accomplish the most for "Humanity" by establishing and maintaining more small and medium sized private enterprises.

      If it was me, I'd  take that 4 bil and create businesses for my kids with smart people in place to help run them. I'd also be SORELY tempted to flip the bird to all the whiney-graspy progressively-totalitarian lefties who shriek about my "responsibility" to their vanguard servants of the proletariate.

      If I had to donate to "Educational Charity", I'd take a hard look at the disgusting mess created by all the others claiming to be concerned about "The Children" and establish an organisation devoted to promoting "Benign Neglect".

I would like to introduce all of you to the guy who has my vote in the 2016 Presidential election.

timdiggerm said:

Terrible idea: Hayden Christensen as the ghost of Anakin Skywalker

Maybe so but who in their right mind would put ghostly Hayden into a Star Wars movie? That would never happen.

Um, wait...

Mrebo said:

I agree with a lot of what you say. In the OT, there was so much focus and effort put into each prop and model and to make them believable on screen.

You mean like the wolf man mask and the ice cream maker? I love the OT too dude but don't oversell it.

timdiggerm said:

I'd really like to see the original cut of AOTC, in which Williams' score for the ending wasn't butchered.

This is one of my main gripes about the prequels. I enjoy them but feel that the sound/music editors too often tracked in old music unnecessarily. I can't help but attribute some of those stupid ass decisions to Ben Burtt.

DominicCobb said:

What if the twist was "I didn't kill your father, Obi-Wan did," and that was actually true?

It IS true... from a certain point of view.

Dr. Yoda said:

There are so many elements like that that truly would've made Star Wars far more enjoyable... Like a little bit of incest between Leia and Luke, or some rape related things, or really anything that would've made it more like a regular family. I would've gotten more attached to the characters. Star Wars... Erotic! Imagine that!

Am I the only one desperately hoping the above is a joke?

silverwheel said:

It ruined one of the most powerful lessons of the series.  The ghost of Old Anakin symbolized that while he could not undo the many terrible things he had done, he could still make amends and seek forgiveness.  Old Anakin symbolized a wasted lifetime.  Hayden's ghost basically gives the character a free pass.  Plus, Old Anakin fits with what we had just seen in the movie - a tired old man trapped in an iron lung, desperately wanting to get out.  Now, in death, he has his release.  The notion that his ghost can just "go back" makes no sense, literally or metaphorically.

This. Would somebody buy this guy a beer?

EDIT- Oh, one other thing. I used to be fairly onboard with the special editions. I felt like there was some merit in altering the trilogy. Ghost Hayden was the first step in me seeing the error of my ways.

I think we all like Star Wars to varying degrees. Our perception of George Lucas is a bit more complicated though...

Harmy said:

 

trimboNZ said (in the ESB:R thread):

Recently I sat down with my seven year old son and introduced him to Star Wars.  ANH seemed the right place to start and as for which version, well there was no contest.

My next dilemma is whether to wait for this edit to be completed before showing him ESB.

 

 

Having just read this, I must apologise to thecolorsblend and acknowledge that there is something to what he says. In light of this post, fanedits don't seem altogether as harmless as I'd have liked to think. The post shows that some people may actually be exposed to a fanedit of a film before they saw the original and there's definitely something wrong and disturbing about that.

Although I must say that STAR WARS and specifically Revisited is a bit of a special case, since Ady's version is is actually closer to the original cut than the official Special Edition, so I definitely think it's preferable for first time viewers to be shown Revisited than the Special Edition.

No apologies necessary. Anywho, I "excuse" Ady on the grounds that ANH-R ought to shame The Technicians That Be at Lucasfilm, who have a lot more money and better equipment at their disposal, and yet their product is inferior to his. I don't know if that's what Ady set out to prove when he started working on the movie but that's one thing he's definitely accomplished.

CatBus said:

I hate to get all post-modernist on this thread, but the whole idea of authorship in art is much less relevant than people give it credit for. The meaning of a work to society is frequently not what the author or authors or executive producers or publishers intended it to be. And who's right when there's a disagreement between the creator and society? IMO the readers, viewers, fans, etc, are always right. It's society who gives a work its real meaning, which is how the meaning of a work can change over time, and successfully become timeless... or fail to do so.

So it doesn't MATTER who edited what when and for what reason, really. What matters is that a big chunk of society saw this hodgepodge collective work and fell in love, probably for hundreds of completely different reasons. And it became a cultural force of its own at that point.

And that's what's important, the cultural impact, and that's what we're trying to preserve. All the discussion about author's intent and definitive versions and crap is beside the point.  Not that we can't have opinions on those, naturally.

Not the point. This isn't about an artist's intent vs. the public's interpretation. That's beyond anybody. This is about an artist's moral right to not have his/her work tampered with. The examples you cite of an author dying and somoene else finishing the work is an extreme case. There is no real option to release the work as is most of the time so someone else is brought in to finish it off. It's apples and oranges.

Point #4 alone proves he doesn't get it. For being an article on allegedly humorous website, apart from a few minor zingers, the thing comes off as a serious defense of Lucas's policies over the years using a bunch of crap strawman arguments and a continuation of this disturbing "geek self-loathing" that things like that jackoff Big Bang Theory show helped popularize.

danaan said:

 

darth_ender said:

Clearly if Luke had killed Vader, the Emperor believed that such would have been sufficient to make him an evil replacement.

Actually, you bring up another good point. Let's assume that the Emperor is lying - killing Vader does not make Luke a Darksider. He can kill Vader and still be the good guy....

And Luke kills Vader....

And...then what? Is he just going to ask Luke nicely to join the Sith club?


Why is the Emperor doing this whole "let's turn Luke to the Dark side" exercise if it doesn't work that way? Wouldn't that expose the Emperor as an incompetent buffon when it comes to Dark side meta-physics? The Emperor, the guy who is patently the strongest Dark side user of the Saga...doesn't even understand how you recruit people to the Dark side?

I'm sorry, but that sounds...not so plausible...and it makes the Emperor come across as much less intimidating, cuz incompetent folks aren't.

Good catch!

 

The only thing I can come up with is that the Emperor would be the only one who could teach Luke much of anything about the Dark Side. Killing the Emperor wouldn't be in Luke's interests at that point.

ray_afraid said:

thecolorsblend said:

 

If you can find a 2D screening of the movie, that would be my recommendation.

So, you'd actually recommend that people see this... thing?

If they're already fans of the movie, yeah. If this rerelease is proving nothing else, it's that TPM isn't changing too many peoples minds the second time around.

SilverWook said:

On a side note, has anyone found the 2D version playing near them?

I've only found one screen showing it near me, and it's one of those captioned presentations for the hearing impaired.

I caught it in 2D. Nobody will ever convince me that 2D isn't the way to go to see this movie. Plus, it sounds like a lot of 3D showings have all the same brightness issues that are typical of a lot of poorly configured 3D presentations (Roger Ebert wrote a legendary rant about this phenomenon a while back that's worth checking out). If you can find a 2D screening of the movie, that would be my recommendation.

Yeah, no kidding, the sheer gall to have a different opinion...

We just have to keep the pressure going. If doomsday comes without an official OUT release, if we "lose"... well, you can't lose what you never had to begin with. But if we win, we win BIG. So why abandon the cause, especially after the BRD's caused all that scandal and controversy?

I see no reason to give up hope.

Incidentally...

CatBus said:

1) OOT

2) Official

3) Presentable

Pick any 2.  I will be perfectly satisfied with 1 & 3.  I'm honestly not sure what option 2 gets you, so perhaps you may someday determine it's not that important to you either.

This is a brilliant distillation of the conflict we face.

CO said:

TPM 3D made 23 million this weekend???   Thats pretty damn good for a movie thats been released before.  I swear I shake my head at this fanbase, and I think I just need to walk away for good as my only hope of a BluRay OOT look less and less possible.

I am telling you that Lucas could make a 2 hour movie of Darth Vader taking a shit in trash compactor of the Death Star, and fans would flock to it.  They would say, "Well, its still Star Wars!"  To read about these jerkoff adults dressing up for the midnight show for this slop makes me embarrassed to be a SW fan. 

I realize the website I'm on but has it never crossed your mind that some people may just sincerely like TPM and their enjoyment of it doesn't need to be interpreted as a personal attack on you and the OUT trilogy?

I wonder sometimes what people who became fans because of the 1997 Special Editions think about their trilogy getting overhauled/updated out of existence...

Bingowings said:

thecolorsblend said:

So Lucas is trying to convince us that a CGI Yoda who just sits around and has one walking shot was impossible to do in the same movie that has a CGI Jar Jar?

Well yeah.

It's not as if he was spinning around doing kung-fu monkey moves like... Keanu Reeves or something.

My point is that it's a bullshit argument and I'm surprised Lucas can make it with a straight face.

Incidentally, I'm now convinced that someday Lucas will CG-pave over the puppet in the original trilogy. Sooner or later, he'll work up the nerve. I have no doubt of it.

I'm not the one who said that.