Can somebody please add an 84 year old Jar Jar among the civilian fleet?
If I had the talent, I’d go full on Darth Jar Jar instead of Sidious. Let’s just embrace the ludicrousness.
Jedi Maul:
They really tried to pretend the prequels didn’t exist.
I was saying this earlier; it really feels like Disney wanted BOTH a total 100% blank slate franchise but also cashing in on nostalgia from the OT. So we got a mishmash that went back and forth with each person putting in the only parts of the lore they wanted to continue and ignoring anything else…kind of like an EU writer, really.
While that’s true, let’s not pretend JJ or Rian cared about that concept either. In fact, no one actually cared about it other than Lucas, since Lucas’ idea of the balance is no Sith. Pretty much everyone who wrote things past ROTJ ignored this, EU or Disney, since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.
Sure, but at least none of the ST movies we got ended with “it turns out the Dark Side IS good after all, and that Gray Jedi, something that deeply go against everything about how the force has been depicted thus far in any canonical media and how it was set down by George, are totally right as a concept, even though using the dark side is genuinely inherently corrosive to the user’s soul and unavoidably corrupts their moral core when people are under its unfluence.”
Because that’s where Treverrow’s script goes. You can have a little corruption, as a treat.
Sure, it would’ve been against the “balance” idea…which is basically a fancy word for “No bad guys.” Which is immediately violated with Snoke, Kylo and then Palpatine. George’s story was that Anakin brought balance by ending Palpatine. Anything after that renders the balance idea…moot.
Grey Jedi would’ve actually flown from the Disney setup, so it goes back to Rian who was trying to REALLY push the franchise away from the Jedi/Sith good/bad ideology. At least then RoS would’ve flown thematically instead of stamping it right back down to ROTJ’s “kill off bad guy for balance.”
Seriously. When I saw TFA, I had figured Luke had been forced into exile to focus on a much larger threat. The tragedy would’ve been he KNEW the First Order was rising and killing his friends, but was forced to see the bigger picture.
This is confusing to me, because TFA straight up tells us exactly why Luke went into exile. When asked, Han says:
He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible… He walked away from everything.
This seems pretty clear to me.
Yes, however, we aren’t told WHY it happened. And Han solo’s 3rd hand report can have inaccuracies, easily.
For example, here’s a take why did “the boy” do it. Note that in the movie they never SPECIFICALLY say it was Kylo. Sure, we know it’s him and they drop many hints, but it wasn’t set in stone yet. Star Wars changes huge plot point directions all the time.
What if something happened where the boy’s force powers suddenly went out of control and killed everyone by accident? What if it was a harbinger of future problems with The Force itself? What if the boy was driven insane, and not only did Luke feel responsible, he also realized it was going to get worse? If Anakin was the vergence in the force, what would the opposite be? Someone who poured force OUTWARD into everything?
or
What if the boy was an unknowing beacon of Force energy. What if his very existence was drawing in a more powerful enemy (similar to the Vong?) that wanted to seek out and eradicate the force itself. What if, in learning that he was destined to destroy not just the Jedi but bring death to the galaxy? The realizing could drive him mad and instead chose to embrace the coming annihilation. Instead of being a Sith, he wanted become something more: the Forceless, destined to erase the Sith and Jedi forever.
Just 2 ideas I just came up with that are beyond just good vs evil/Sith vs Jedi.
If you like JJ better, RJ’s chapter is gonna stand out as the spoiled meat in the sandwhich. And if you like RJ, JJ seems like he slapped pop tarts on either side of roast beef.
Late to the party but I love this analogy.
Would say the Sandwich analogy feels more like an open-faced one.
-Start with decent, if somewhat boring, safe bread as a base.
-Add strange meat that tastes different, not really bad but definitely not the usual for this type of sandwich…
-Overpour super-strong sauce, a house mixture of spicy, sweet, sour, and stale all the same time.
Eat it and feel strangely unsatisfied and go finish the meal at the new restaurant, Mando’s.
Like, what if Snoke was an agent of said threat. Sowing the seeds for a wider invasion.
Seriously. It would’ve “subverted expectations” just as much to make the analogue-Emperor a puppet of a greater force. Instead of the total joke we got, he would’ve emphasized the theme of moving beyond the old storyline and its good-bad imagery. He still could’ve been wiped out easily and build towards a greater threat; imagine if the First Order and the resistance had to be forced to work together?
In the future, with more media, it may be possible to heavily edit TLJ and Rise into this film, but that would take an incredible level of storywriting skill.
since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.
At the the announcement of the Lucasfilm buy-out I had my hopes up for a villian akin to the Yizhon Vohng, an outer galaxy threat. An enemy that threatened the force itself.
Seriously. When I saw TFA, I had figured Luke had been forced into exile to focus on a much larger threat. The tragedy would’ve been he KNEW the First Order was rising and killing his friends, but was forced to see the bigger picture.
And while they’re at it they should bring back Trevorrow and Derek Connolly to write and direct.
They deserve a chance.I really hope not. Treverrow’s script may have had some cool Resistance stuff and some very pretty concept art, but even ignoring how totally and completely it butchers the concept of balance in the force, it’s got serious issues.
While that’s true, let’s not pretend JJ or Rian cared about that concept either. In fact, no one actually cared about it other than Lucas, since Lucas’ idea of the balance is no Sith. Pretty much everyone who wrote things past ROTJ ignored this, EU or Disney, since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.
Just had a good one, what if Rey’s parents were killed by an accident related to the war?
Similar to Jyn Erso’s dad being killed in the crossfire…what if they were not murdered, but simply because they were unlucky enough to be hit in a rebel strike happened as they were leaving?
If there was any footage of the actors, a few tweaks of dialogue make it work. If this were a re-DIRECTING forum, I’d say have a scene where the alcoholic father HAD to take a drink along with him because he couldn’t cope with the stress of what he was about to do.
This edit would add at least the tinist bit of conflict for Rey towards the rebellion and at least give the smallest reason to consider Kylo’s “leave it all behind” message that was mostly ignored anyways.
The problem I see is that Rey doesn’t ever seem to ever distrust the Resistance in the movies.
Yeah, when you think about it, Jyn had a more consistent storyarc in one movie than Rey in 3 movies.
Star Wars Episode VI Return of the Jedi: Very Special Edition
Changes:
- Palpatine no longer explodes when falling down the reactor shaft, continuity fix for TROS.
- Sebastion Shaw’s Vader scene has been deep faked with Hayden Christiansen’s face.
This is for worst edit ideas, not ones that would be interesting to try.
Just had a good one, what if Rey’s parents were killed by an accident related to the war?
Similar to Jyn Erso’s dad being killed in the crossfire…what if they were not murdered, but simply because they were unlucky enough to be hit in a rebel strike happened as they were leaving?
If there was any footage of the actors, a few tweaks of dialogue make it work. If this were a re-DIRECTING forum, I’d say have a scene where the alcoholic father HAD to take a drink along with him because he couldn’t cope with the stress of what he was about to do.
This edit would add at least the tinist bit of conflict for Rey towards the rebellion and at least give the smallest reason to consider Kylo’s “leave it all behind” message that was mostly ignored anyways.
Maybe the galaxy thinks he is dead but I think the ideal would be to have him in self exile. A batman like figure that appears and disappears out of nowhere, helping out around the galaxy as a form of penance. A symbol.
As cheesy as it sounds, this is kind of what I would have wanted. Rey and Ben wouldn’t be hooking up in secret or anything, he’d just become a wandering fighter for justice, trying to right some of his wrongs. Potentially with his mother’s lightsaber.
Obviously there’s no way to make that happen in an edit, but it’s what seems like a feasible story decision to me. He DEFINITELY could not join up with the Resistance and be like “It’s cool, I’m a good guy now!”
Should be noted that Driver specifically said that Kylo-Ben’s story would not end the same way as Anakin’s.
I suspect, back when writing TFA, JJ and KK MIGHT have considered Kylo living at the end. Unfortunately, the overwhelming pressures of Disney needing the usual stereotypical bad vs good storyline ending meant that they didn’t want to take the risk and, yep, bad guy dies, good guy lives.
At the Lucasfilm purchase, someone at Disney (Maybe Iger?) likely wanted a completely blank franchise to start over with. In the planning stages, however, they were convinced they shouldn’t risk rebooting everything, so they did the safer nostalgia-based soft-remake. Hence all the interquels as well.
Suppose if you were to remove the existence of the OT completely. As in, this is a completely new SW universe.
Under Disney, it would’ve ended exactly the same as it did. Good guy lives, bad guy dies.
I personally would’ve found it brave if they’d let Kylo live. It may be possible to do an edit where he goes into exile, like Jon Snow did. If anything, Kylo should’ve been the one to vanish into the Tattooine desert while Rey goes off with her friends.
The one where Luke accepts the saber and walks off was surprisingly well made, though it made me wonder how does Rey retrieve it later.
Is there any version where Luke just hands the lightsaber back to Rey, using a reversed version of the close-up where Luke receives it?
Yep. Go to youtube and search something like “luke hands saber back to rey,” “last jedi luke returns saber” etc.
This is a very common edit, I see 10 just on the first page.
I.e.
Since so many people are contributing some impressive FX shots for edits of tRoS, I was wondering if anyone on this thread knew anyone who could make a shot of Luke’s saber hitting the ground for any TLJ edit that has Luke drop the saber instead of throwing it.
There’s a few edits like that on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sAk-8wmtpE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6OKmGlXLTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78iin4y22I
This one is interesting in that it goes the other way and he takes it.
As crazy as it sounds, maybe Kylo Ren slaughter in the Forest could be reused then as Endor? The fire could be explained as l, u know, battle field, FO slaughtering 🤷♂️ or Just a flashback. Damn, this sequence is Just too cool to be cut 😅
ACTUALLY…that’s not a bad idea…for a Force Awakens edit.
Originally, Kylo “Jedi Killer” Ren was going to have a scene where he raided Vader’s funeral pyre.
In fact that’s probably the inspiration for the Sith Wayfinder scene.
Ben mystically impregnates Rey as he heals her with his hand on her stomach.
That’s already what happened though?
Making Rey UNAWARE of Palpatine’s possession method also can give her a motivation for not killing him instantly: she is still torn over her parentage. That’s one of the few plot threads that actually was relevant to her character arc in all 3 movies.
RogueLeader said:
I personally think it would fit better to replace Palpatine repeating the “to cheat death” line that doesn’t do anything beyond being a callback. Either way, I think this change would accomplish a few things. First, we get a stronger explanation and understanding of Palpatine’s true nature and means of survival at the beginning of the film rather than the end. Second, it provides a good reason for why Kylo didn’t just immediately kill him. And third, it creates dramatic irony during the climax, because we know what is at stake if Rey kills Palpatine, but she doesn’t. So hopefully the audience would react by thinking, “No no no, Rey, don’t do it he’ll possess you!”
Seriously, this works on so many levels. I don’t get how JJ and co could have written such a terrible climax with Palpatine literally giving reasons for Rey not to kill him. That’s beyond gloating and full on nonsensical dialogue where BOTH parties suddenly become stupid.
It’s weird to feel a little sad to see how… close to being sort of complete the cutlist is.
I’ll be real with you, it’s gonna be hard when this thing is finished.
If only there was a way to do a big watch party premiere when it’s done. To send the HAL9000 saga out with a bang!
We could get everyone on Discord and sync up a play of it!
I’d be interested.
I tend to think of Dagobah as akin to Dragon Ball’s Hyperbolic Time Chamber/Room of Spirit & Time. One year inside the chamber takes up only one day outside of it. Dagobah time is elongated, which would account for the extended time Luke spent training/Yoda’s age catching up to him a bit more.
That’s just a “head canon” for me.
That’s a cool idea, though I doubt Lucas thought of it that way and probably just ignored the specific time length details for the overall “feel” of the training montage.
Thumbs up to you for spelling head canon right and not the silly headcannon, which IS something in Dragonball, hahaha.
A: Luke is isolated because there’s a far bigger threat coming. The tragedy is that he had to focus on that while Snoke took advantage of the vacuum. He knows lives are being lost but EVERYTHING could die without his effort. However, he failed to see the enormity of how far the First Order had spread in his absence, and realizes the new generation needs his guidance and can’t solve everything alone.
That’s an amazing idea. I might actually use it in my sequel edits to remove Luke’s surly attitude, while still explaining his absence. The bigger threat would be revealed to be Palpatine, giving that plot twist more foreshadowing.
Thanks! Go for it.
The Emperor is the head of the Empire, which was the main threat of the original trilogy. Another separate threat would be introducing a new and separate antagonist. Lucas never did this. Snoke and the First Order was the primary antagonist, setting up Kylo to supplant him. Having an extra force to fight against that The First Order also has to fight against would have convoluted everything, be that threat another force or Knights of Ren.
TFA establishes Luke was ashamed due to Kylo turning to the dark side and that’s why he went into exile. It’s in the crawl and repeated in dialogue from Han.
No one lost the ability to use the Force, if anything it’s more widely believed in during TFA than ANH. Even non-Jedi/non-Sith characters use the Force (Maz).
Kylo is the leader of the knights of Ren. That is the only thing we know about them outside of the Kylo Ren comics.
I’m just saying that Johnson developed what Abrams introduced. If you have a problem with what was introduced, your issue is with Abrams not Johnson.
You’re not getting my point. You’re nitpicking little details that don’t 100% match when that’s not remotely the issue. The crawl in TFA did NOT mention anything about guilt or Kylo at all. Maz did not use the force. Kylo is not the leader of the Knights AT THE TIME of the movie alone. You’re bringing in things from other sources, when I was specifically saying that within the context of TFA and TFA alone, things could go anywhere.
When Lucas wrote the original movie, SEVERAL aspects were totally ignored, changed, and retconned for Empire. For example, the SW Emperor wasn’t a threat, he was still, at that stage, a useless bureaucrat and not part of the plot.
Or, you know, Vader being Luke’s father, the biggest rewrite of all.
The point is that things can be changed for the better–you just have to use your imagination. That’s what this entire editing hobby is about.
A. B.
The other threat needed to be established in that first film. Revealing a new antagonist later on doesn’t work, such as Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker.C. D.
Goes against The Force Awakens.E. Goes against The Force Awakens and introduces another antagonist force in an already convoluted and confusing sociopolitical world that wasn’t fleshed out as it was.
Again, your beef with that choice should be aimed at Abrams.
How does anything “Go against the Force Awakens”? Nothing in TFA was established due to JJ’s blank setup. There’s no context at all for Luke’s flashbacks. Snoke is 100% unknown. Kylo has zero history with Luke at the time other than generic hatred. Besides, Palpatine wasn’t introduced until Empire. Lucas himself can introduce bigger threats in the second film.
Nitpicking the details isn’t the point of what I said, it’s to illustrate you can go anywhere.
thebluefrog said:
JJ started it, yes, but it was Rian who took the ball and ran with it. Hamill definitely didn’t want things to go they way they did in TLJ. JJ’s mystery box COULD have been opened in a more appropriate way.How? By going against everything set up in the prior film? By having a primary hero not grow or develop over 30 years? By sidelining the new characters to have Luke take over the story again?
The only other interesting choice would’ve been for Luke to be revealed the puppet master behind Snoke.
No way, come on, this is Star Wars. We have a universe of possibilities. It’s like when Kennedy said they don’t have a bunch of books or comics to go off…there’s literally 30 years of ideas people have offered.
Just as I’m sitting here, here’s a few ideas I came up with that are solely based off the brief flashes from TFA that had no context at the time.
A: Luke is isolated because there’s a far bigger threat coming. The tragedy is that he had to focus on that while Snoke took advantage of the vacuum. He knows lives are being lost but EVERYTHING could die without his effort. However, he failed to see the enormity of how far the First Order had spread in his absence, and realizes the new generation needs his guidance and can’t solve everything alone.
B: A new enemy emerged, almost like a parasite that feeds off Luke. The Jedi usage of the Force attracts it, and to protect the galaxy he needed to suppress himself. Reduced to no Jedi power, he had to research with bare bones paper and wooden tools to find a solution. Rey and friends disagree and think that they should still fight in the same good and evil sense: they MUST use the Force because Kylo and Snoke are. Both sides cannot agree, causing tragedy when neither belief’s absolutism can solve the problem.
C: Luke had his own child and family. The are lost in a senseless tragedy–not evil, not good, just random. The sheer enormity of the callous randomness of the galaxy breaks Luke’s faith in the idea of darkness vs light and the idea of balance loses meaning to him. It is no one’s fault, not Kylo, not Snoke, and not Luke. Can Rey’s own experiences regarding the cruelty of her own life contrast Luke’s broken soul?
D: While the galaxy was at peace, Luke attempted to build a new Jedi order. But something slowly went wrong. The new Jedi start to lose their connection to the force. There’s no war, no enemy, no cause…yet the Jedi connection to the force is simply dying.
Luke: “Darkness rises and light to meet it…but what happens when Light simply fades?”
While the New Jedi Order slowly diminished, it left them vulnerable, and the new empire, even without the Sith, were able to simply militarily overwhelm the weakened Jedi. Luke survived, but is now a powerless hermit wracked with survivor’s guilt. Can a Jedi still teach without the Force?
E: The Knights of Ren are not Sith. They are not Jedi. They do not use the force. They do not want the force. They take no political side. Using their unique form of armor based off 60 years of analyzing Republic and Empire technology, they are immune to the force in all ways. They cannot be mind tricked. They cannot be force pushed. They cannot be lightsabered. They are simply slow, methodological killers who believe in their cause. They hunted down and killed every one of Luke’s students. They are not allied with The First Order; they are a third faction and have their own agenda, because this is war, and war is not a cut and dry, black and white, good versus bad situation. They do not follow Kylo Ren, for he is a traitor who wishes to use the Force. And once they have exterminated Luke…they will come for him.
These are just several random ideas off the top of my head and just based off TFA’s mystery box. Sure they’re not perfect but it’s illustrating that there is ALWAYS a different way to go in writing fiction. There is no limit but your own imagination.
Harrison was right to want his character dead by the end of ROTJ.
Exactly. Harrison’s ideas of where the character should go have merit. If only Hamill’s ideas had been listened to as as well.
*had been listened to by JJ Abrams, who introduced the Luke abandoning the galaxy in shame plotline.
JJ started it, yes, but it was Rian who took the ball and ran with it. Hamill definitely didn’t want things to go they way they did in TLJ. JJ’s mystery box COULD have been opened in a more appropriate way.