What’s about an eventual color correction?
http://ultimateaspectratio.co.nf/comparisons/Rogue_One_untouched_vs_regraded_moviefingerprint.html
Updated first post with the new Rogue One HDTV.
I wonder if there is a similar one for EP7.
Also, IIRC, there were cropped versions of at least the prequel trilogy, broadcasted many years ago; there is a VERY SLIGHT chance that, even if cropped, those retain a bit more image on top and bottom, as RO HDTV; if someone has them, please drop me a PM, thanks!
Some screenshots:
In few shots, there is no added image, hence the aspect ratio is normal letterbox; in all the others, there is a small gain top and bottom, a bit above 7% more in comparison to BD (also in very few shots, like the one in the second pic, there is a tiny bit more on one side, too - we are talking about 2 or 3 pixels…)
Has anyone done a similar comparison between the blu-ray and hdtv versions of TFA aside from the imax scene?
Force Awakens was filmed in anamorphic Panavision, thus the HDTV is pure pan and scan.
Not necessarily… an anamorphic film could gain something, too - not only on top and bottom, but sometimes also on one side: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=132920
Sadly, no internet connection during the last days… 😦 indeed, I’m in the phone now; the very moment I’ll grab it, I’ll post here more info!
HDTV
Thanks guys!
For the moment, I’d stick with Ultimate, but you can replace it with Unexpected, Unorthodox, Unconventional, Unusual, Universal, Useless… 😄
Probably I would be able to produce an UAR version of Rogue One; to have an idea, it will look like this, more or less:
If anyone is interested, please leave a comment.
Because there is some interest in UAR projects, but many don’t know how they will look like, I thought to compile a list of screenshot comparisons, so everyone will be able to take a look!
More info on UAR here: Hybrid Vs UAR - a simple guide
Terminator 2 - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133449
test version! I’m still not happy with the color matching in some scenes, so I won’t work on it until I’ll be able to find out a letterbox (even in standard definition) which uses the same master of the fullscreen DVD.
The Arrival (1996) - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133547
this is mostly a fullscreen version with added “slices” on both sides; if there is some interest, I’m ready to turn it in an hybrid fullscreen version instead.
Silent Hill - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133548
HD-DVD Vs UAR dual source
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/129931
BD Vs UAR triple source
Jurassic Park III - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=132359
as other UAR dual sources, this has many shots in fullscreen with “slices” added on both sides, but in many others the contrary is true, where open matte has more image on top and/or bottom.
Resident Evil: Apocalypse - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/129953
BD Vs UAR dual source - maybe it will end up using three
Resident Evil: Afterlife - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133550
OAR Vs UAR dual source - only few scenes are actually really in open matte (and subsequentially in UAR); of course, the French text is not present in the final version!
Resident Evil - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=131166
moviefingerprint - BD Vs UAR dual source
Terminator 3 - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=133261
moviefingerprint - HDTV Vs UAR dual source
The Dark Tower - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133255
moviefingerprint - open matte has logo which is visible in few shots; solutions could be to wait for another open matte version without logo (or with it in another place), or use the plain BD, or crop the top of the image, or try an impaint and see if could work (it probably will in a couple of shots IMHO).
Creep (2004)
The Matrix
And, to be in line with the motto “UAR: because every single pixel counts!™”:
Alien: Resurrection - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133426
not only more image on top and bottom, in comparison to blu-ray, but also on both sides!!!
Deep Rising - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/133351
this will be mostly an hybrid version, but it’s interesting to note that, even in full open matte shots (almost all), the UAR has more image on top thanks to blu-ray!
Alien 3 - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=132920
incredibly, it’s possible to add some (few) parts of an image even on anamorphic films!
Note: at the moment, none of these has been released!
Hybrid Vs UAR - a simple guide
Maybe someone has encountered a so-called “Hybrid” version, and does not know what it is about; and I bet many don’t know about UAR as well! So, this post would try to clarify this - I hope so!
Note: in this article, we use the following terms for the most used aspect ratios
fullscreen=1.33:1 (but could be also up to 1.66:1), open matte=1.78:1 (but could be also down to 1.66:1), letterbox=2.40:1 (but could be also down to 1.85:1)
Hybrid: obtained overlapping the source with higher quality on top of lower quality one; borders (if any) are straight; image aspect ratio is the same of one of the sources.
PROs: retains the same AR for the whole movie; improved quality of the center "slice"
CONs: usually does not preserve OAR; sometimes sources are cropped, and, if not stated, it is difficult to know that; “ambilight” version could be annoying for someone
UAR: previously known as AAP-AR (axis-aligned polygon aspect ratio), this is obtained overlapping two or more sources; borders are not straight, but stairsteps-like.
PROs: more image than any single source; improved quality of the source overlaid on top; two sources version can retain OAR using YAO hack
CONs: three sources version can’t preserve OAR; “stairsteps” borders and/or VAR could be annoying for someone
Examples (green=best quality source, blue=middle quality source, red=lower quality source, yellow=mixed sources):
Hybrid - letterbox overlapped to open matte
This is the classic situation where high quality letterbox source, usually BD, is placed on top of lower quality open matte, usually WEB-DL or HDTV; when no BD of a given movie exists, letterbox could be WEB-DL or HDTV 1080p, where open matte could be WEB-DL or HDTV 720p, or even DVD. This would preserve the open matte AR.
WARNING: <span style=“color: #ff3333”>when letterbox has more image on one or both sides, it must be cropped</span> <span style=“color: #33cc33”>unless the open matte is full, hence both sources have the same frame width</span>
Showgirls - Remastered Open Matte - Cinema Polish
NOTE: here open matte is full, apart two or three shots, hence it is mainly uncropped, apart those brief ones.
Hybrid - letterbox or open matte overlapped to fullscreen
Another example of hybrid; the letterbox/open matte could usually be BD, WEB-DL, HDTV, where fullscreen is often a DVD.
WARNING: <span style=“color: #ff3333”>the letterbox/open matte would be cropped at both sides, to preserve the fullscreen AR,</span> <span style=“color: #33cc33”>unless both frames have the same width</span> (AFAIK no title does that for the whole duration of the film)
Jurassic Park III - UAR (in progress, 1.78:1+1.33:1)
NOTE: indeed, this will be an UAR version, but in some shots it happens that both sources perfectly match their frame width, hence no cropping.
Hybrid - fullscreen overlapped to letterbox or open matte
A rare case where a fullscreen (cropped or pan&s;scan) version has better quality than letterbox/open matte; I could think of HDTV for fullscreen and DVD for letterbox. WARNING: <span style=“color: #ffcc33”>the fullscreen would usually be cropped on top and/or bottom, to preserve the letterbox AR.</span>
Event Horizon (test, cropped 1.78:1+2.40:1)
NOTE: indeed, this test used HDTV as fullscreen and BD as letterbox; in theory HDTV, having an higher resolution, could held a better quality; top and bottom slices are still there and would be cropped in an hybrid version.
Hybrid - letterbox overlapped to fullscreen (cropped)
In this version, <span style=“color: #ff3333”>one or both sources are cropped, to get a “custom” open matte AR</span> - which is more or less between fullscreen and letterbox; so, you would get a bit more image on top and bottom in comparison to letterbox, and a bit more image on one or both sides in comparison to fullscreen; still, image would be cropped in comparison of a “pure” UAR version. Black corners would be unavoidable, but in this instance they could be filled with so-called “ambilight” or “frosty borders” (a feasible option), or inpainted (still to find out an inpaint technique that would works well in video… let’s wait for a great neural net/deep learning technology!)
Terminator 2: Judgement Day (custom open matte, experimental)
NOTE: in some shots the “ambilight” corners pass unnoticed, whereas in others are quite noticeable. As usual, is up to the single viewer to prefer this version, an UAR, or simply neither.
UAR 2 sources - letterbox or open matte overlapped to fullscreen (no cropping)
UAR using two sources; letterbox/open matte could be BD, WEB-DL, HDTV, while fullscreen could be DVD. UAR would get as much image as possible.
Resident Evil: Apocalypse UAR (in progress, 1.78:1+1.33:1)
Resident Evil: Afterlife UAR (raw test made in paint, 2.40:1+1.33:1)
UAR 2 sources - fullscreen or open matte overlapped to letterbox (no cropping)
Here we have a better quality open matte source, usually WEB-DL or HDTV, placed on top of lower quality letterbox, usually DVD; at the contrary, if the letterbox has higher quality, like a BD or HD-DVD, it could be put on top of open matte.
Silent Hill UAR (in progress, 2.35:1+1.78:1)
UAR 3 sources - letterbox overlapped to open matte overlapped to fullscreen (no cropping)
Here you can get as much image as possible, using three sources; stairsteps borders are even more evident in this case.
The Matrix (UAR 2.40:1+1.78:1+1.33:1, experimental)
UAR 2 sources - letterbox or open matte overlapped to fullscreen (no cropping)
In this case, where letterbox and fullscreen sources are of comparable quality, it is possible to mix them (percentage varies according to quality of each source) to let the sources blend better and improve the final result.
Jurassic Park III - UAR (in progress, 1.78:1 85%+1.33:1 15%, more or less…)
Short FAQ
Q: I want to watch a movie in its OAR; should I go for hybrid, or UAR version?
A: Surely not for UAR; in some cases hybrid could retain OAR; you should compare the OAR of that movie, and the one of the hybrid version to be sure.
Q: When I should watch an hybrid version?
A: Every time you like to see that movie in the hybrid AR, even if it’s not in its OAR; you would get a better quality than “plain” bigger source, and more image than “plain” smaller source.
Q: When I should watch an experimental hybrid version?
A: The “experimental” term here is used for those hybrid versions that use “ambilight” corners; so, for the same reasons above, pluse if you can stand those corners filled with “imaginary” image - where an algorithm decides what parts of the surround image could be used to fill the empty corners.
Q: When I should watch an UAR version?
A: When you want to see as much image as possible - indeed, it is a composited image of two or more sources, often bringing the whole visible image close to what it was present in the negative film (or digital) frame; and you can stand VAR and stairsteps borders. Do note that UAR versions could have fullscreen, open matte or letterbox shots when two or three sources simply overlap perfectly, without more image on top/bottom/sides, or when one is it completely enclosed inside another, or in SFX shots that were filmed only in one AR; this doesn’t occur frequently, though. Also, you should expect any “tetris-like” image shape, in particular when three sources are used. In rare cases, you have one source “shift” from top to bottom (and vice versa) or left to right (and vice versa) to stay aligned with the other source. So, actually an UAR could contain pure UAR shots (stairsteps borders), shots with the same AR of the sources (letterbox, open matte, fullscreen), or hybrid shots.
Q: I don’t think I will like this kind of borders, and variable aspect ratio…
A: Is it possible, or course. But I’d give it a try, because our brain would be used to not notice it after few minutes, and then you could focus on the bigger image, where previously hidden details could be discovered now.
Q: What’s about props, mics, unfinished effects that could be now seen?
A: Albeit is it possible to spot them in theory, in practice (almost) all versions available don’t contain them; in an unfortunate event they do, it is care of the UAR maker to NOT include them!
Q: Wouldn’t be the “seams” between sources visible? And “slices” from sources with different quality? And what’s about sources with different color gradings?
A: Seams would be noticeable in few cases, in particular when a source has an high quality, like BD, and the other has low quality, like DTV; of course, there are various method to let them as unnoticeable as possible, like color grading and diffused noise. Also, final quality of the sources should be evened before overlapping, so needed noise reduction, deblocking, sharpening, grains should be applied; even higher quality source could be degraded a bit if needed to be closer to enhanced lower quality one. Different color gradings, and contrasts, should be matched as much as possible; even here we could find few shots where the difference between sources could be noticed, usually barely. Finally, a grain plate helps a lot to cover such eventual problems, and improves overall perceived details.
Further readings:
Hybrid & UAR projects list
Restoration tips: Overlap matching
Restoration tips: Axis-Aligned Polygon Aspect Ratio™ (a.k.a. UAR™)
Restoration tips: Soft+Open Matte™ (a.k.a. YAO™)
Frosty Borders - avisynth plugin
Inpaint - Wikipedia
Agree that it’s not for everyone; still, I think it’s better to have more alternative way to see your preferred movie - OAR, open matte, UAR; old grading, new grading; theatrical cut, director’s cut etc. - the more, the merrier! 😄
The Matrix regrade: I know, you are right, but I’m so involved in this UAR thing that I’m a bit lost about other projects; all of them would be ready, be sure - still, can’t say when! 😉
To whom it may concern: RE1 UAR SD is on myspleen now.
Queen: apart the fact I don’t want to do concert related projects, the fact is, quality of analog capture (even if from LD) would be too different for a good match, and also it would be difficult to align perfectly.
Evil Dead? Maybe!
Star Wars? Is there any source with more image top/bottom? Don’t think so…
Dune? Is there a 1.33:1 DVD?
I’m thinking to put my hands back in the following projects, and release an UAR version - maybe also using a different color grading, to add insult to injury!
Alien: Covenant 2xUAR (don’t think a 1.33:1 source exists)
Alien: Resurrection (1997) [Fundamental Collection #004] 2xUAR (3xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 good source)
Aliens (1986) [Fundamental Collection #002] (2xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 good source)
Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem (Unrated) [spoRv] 2xUAR (3xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 source)
AVP: Aliens Vs. Predator (2004) [Fundamental Collection #012] 3xUAR
Halloween (1978) [Fundamental Collection #006] 2xUAR
Harry Potter saga 3xUAR except 7.1 and 7.2
Minority Report (2002) [Fundamental Collection #007] 2xUAR (3xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 good source)
Prometheus (2012) [Fundamental Collection #023] 2xUAR (don’t think a 1.33:1 source exists)
Supernova (2000) [spoRv] 3xUAR (if I will find a logo-free open matte)
The Arrival (1996) [Fundamental Collection #008] 2xUAR (if I’ll match color grading)
The Chronicles of Riddick (2004) [Fundamental Collection #011] 2xUAR (3xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 source)
The Matrix [spoRv] 3xUAR
Timeline (2003) [Fundamental Collection #010] (2xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 source)
Waterworld (1995) [Fundamental Collection #009] (2xUAR if I will find a 1.33:1 good source)
and few others titles (mainly 3xUAR whenever possible, if the 1.33:1 exists, has more image, has the same color grading, has good quality)
The Matrix 2, 3
Jurassic Park 1, 2, 3
Resident Evil 1, 2, 3, 4 (5 2xUAR as it seems no 1.33:1 exists, and 6 seems to be available only in widescreen)
Back To The Future 1, 2, 3
Lord Of The Rings 1, 2, 3
Terminator 1, 2, 3, 4
Gattaca
The Fifth Element
Oblivion
Johnny Mnemonic
Total Recall
DO… NOT… EXPECT… THEM… ANYTIME… SOON! Indeed, each take A LOT of time!
Thanks guys! Meanwhile, if you want to watch Resident Evil (UAR 1.33:1+1.78:1) albeit in SD, just to have an idea of how an UAR movie could be, drop me a PM.
EDIT: forgot to mention Undefined, Unidentified, Unbelievable etc. etc. etc. 😅
Once upon a time, I started a thread about AAP-AR (you can read it here: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/restoration-tips-axis-aligned-polygon-aspect-ratio/id/16435); found that this AAP-AR acronym was too long, and decided to go with UAR - where AR stands for Aspect Ratio, while the U… I’m still not decided what does it mean for the moment; Unconventional, Unexpected, Unorthodox, Ultimate, Unusual, Unified, Useless, you name it…
Long story short, an UAR film could look like this:
using two sources, or like the following using three sources:
Of course, it would never stay the same for the whole movie - you are lucky if few subsequent shots maintains the same AR - so it’s not for the faint of heart, or VAR haters.
Sometimes the frame could be full open matte (so it takes the whole screen), others can be “fullscreen” (1.33:1), but usually it’s a combination of both; in the case of an UAR using three sources, it could use only open matte (rare), two sources (sometimes) or all the three sources at once (most of the times).
Important note: an UAR movie using open matte (1.78:1) and letterbox (2.35/2.40:1) could always use a YAO sub hack, where the black bars could be overlaid to added parts of the image, leaving the image as a normal letterbox version; UAR using fullscreen (1.33:1) and open matte (1.78/1.85:1) could still use YAO sub hack, but in few shots where the fullframe is not placed centrally, you would of course note the offset position; no YAO sub hack for a UAR using three sources, I’m sorry!
(more about YAO hack here: https://forum.fanres.com/thread-300.html - and a test clip here: https://mega.nz/#!1uZUWLbT!tWoHF9vOnXYAz7-QjOxeC3q7JIIYQRHx6pCcsezvZX4)
The UAR could be usually used only on non-anamorphic movies, but there are few instances when you can get a little more image even with them, like the following:
(okay, not that much more, but better than nothing! 😉 )
I’m working on some projects using UAR - one is The Matrix, that would take a bit as it uses three sources; the other is Resident Evil (two sources, SD version ready, so if you want to take a look just ask me for the link, but hurry up, it will vanish in few days!)
So, as usual, I’m doing these for my own pleasuse - I always wanted to do that, combine more versions to have more image to watch, and even if I usually follow the “less is more” philosophy, there are some times where “more is more” is better, like this! 😉
At the end, how it looks like? Well, first of all, it’s strange… we were used to watch films in fullscreen (oh, the good ol’ days of cathode ray tubes…), then letterbox came, and we were “forced” to watch movies with huge black bars on top and bottom; luckily, new 16:9 displays came, and black bars were smaller (almost disapperared with 1.85:1 movies). So, with UAR it seems (almost) to be back in the old days, but this time black bars are usually on both sides, and they are not even straight, but like stair steps… and costantly changing!
Isn’t this distracting? Yep, you bet it, BUT… strangely enough, our brain seems to say “OK, I can watch it, go on!” after few minutes.
But you have not to trust me, just watch an entire movie - even if it’s not your preferred one - and give me your opinion… would you ever watch a movie with a strange aspect ratio like this? If so, just for the pleasure to watch more image, for curiosity, or to analize the frame composition, cinematography etc.?
Ready to read your opinions and feedbacks!
All 7 movies are available on the usual Russian tracker - dunno if they are those TV version discussed here, but it’s quite probable, as I don’t see the point to retain them, while BDs are readily available.
Family Dog: interesting info! It would be quite easy to capture LD audio, and dub it with DVD video… not in the near future, though, but still, do retain the DVDs for a future project! 😉
A Goofy Movie: according to LDDB - http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06555/4658-AS/Goofy-Movie-A - it is letterbox. Is Netflix version worst than DVD? And, what’s about the HDTV version? If you have it, can you post some screenshots? Possibly also a comparison with DVD and/or Netflix! 😄
benduwan said:
which are you in mind?
if the scenes can´t finished visuell,why you don´t finished it with audio and spfx and look how this work in the movie?
Thinking about the one with the ropes, EP3 IIRC.
About EP7 fixed scenes: I do love what NeverarGreat did; hope he (or somebody else) would do the same for all, and hopefully would share with us for this project!
NeverarGreat, that timecode removal is great!
Well, of course I’m aware the BD scenes are the best, still they are dirt and needed to be cleaned (EP 4, 5, 6) or timecode removed (EP 7), or finished (some scenes of EP 1, 2, 3).
Merry Xmas to you, too, and to everyone!
And, no… I’d like to have only video (indeed, not very keen to use B&W scenes not colorized…); of course, when released, anyone could take care of this.
HP7 and HP8 released… merry Xmas! 🎅🎅🎅
Harry Potter 3, 4, 5, 6 released; 7 and 8 would be released in the next few days.
Enjoy!
@LostTman1093: any help is appreciated! Something in mind already?
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets [Fundamental Collection] released in the usual blu place.
They are the theatrical versions - for the moment, at least! 😃
“stagnated”?!?