I honestly cannot wait for the v3 workprint (…and the eventual ‘full fat’ 30gb final cut)
What you’ve done here is special!
Kudos, Poppa, kudos!!!
Hi poppasketti,
While Hals Legendary edit has always been my go to for TLJ myself and a few others have been keep to see the third lession scene reinserted back in.
This will also mean having the caretakes back in the background to a degee but the lession conveys so well to Rey and us the audiense that Jedi of old would rather meditate over “their” force then get involved in other peoples problems. This strengthens beliefs as to why Luke is in isolation and his reasoning as to let the Jedi of old end.
Lukes 3rd Lession ClipHals stated he does’nt have any interest in an alternate version of TLJ Legenday with this scene and caretakers but would this be something you’d entertain?
Hey, Bud
Not to speak for anyone else but I think the decision across multiple edits is that the amount of work required to complete the abandoned VFX on this sequence in order for it not to seem thrown in or bolted on as an after thought is too much for many editors to justify the time/trouble?
I could be very wrong, and it’s certainly not my place to pass comment but that’s just what I’ve gleaned from similar questions being asked previously?
I am curious though and just as a means of having a conversation, what is it that you prefer about HAL’s TLJ? Not that there’s anything wrong with that view! (I really am just being curious?)
Hal’s TFA: Restructured is my go to cut of TFA
I really think Hal fully unlocked the magic within that movie.
However, Poppa win’s it for me with his TLJ Rekindled. I know his project started on the foundation of Hal’s Legendary, but I really feel he’s found his rhythm with this project now and it’s really starting to take on a life of it’s own to the same extent as Hal’s TFA and hence I don’t think I could go back to the original cut now.
Hi smpearce1981,
In answer to your question personally Hals Legendary v3 edit ticks all the boxes for what I want when watching TLJ albeat the as stated unusable 3rd lesson scene (can see my prefered versions below). I’m not knocking poppaskettis version in any way but I’m happy with what Hal offers with v3 having also intergrated some of poppasketti changes found here also I like Hals method of being less is more and leaving what he can untouched and only editing magor issues. I’m actually rewatching TFA Restructured V4 again at this moment but with Hals commentary 😋.I have a question though this is going to be obvious once pointed out to me but what is actually unfinished in the 3rd lession deleted scene as I dont see any wires, placeholder vfx or green backdrops in the scene which makes it unusable in an edit? 🤔
Hey bud.
All of the above is fair enough! Hal’s stuff is great so there’s no ‘gotcha’ in me asking the question.
Once again, not wishing to speak on behalf of anyone else, but i think iv read around that the primary reason the scene is determined not useable is down to the bit where Rey runs across the stones.
Its not necessarily due to a presence of wires but more the absence of gravity…at least as we’ve come to recognise it.
The rest i simply can’t speak too? So it might be better to let the editor(s) have their say!
I was thinking about the ‘3 lessons’ thing:
It’s actually ok that it’s left at 2 lessons on account of the breakdown in the relationship between Rey and Luke.
It’s not necessarily a continuity error, she just elects to leave to face/redeem Kylo before Luke got the opportunity to deliver the third lesson.
Neither Luke or Rey were expecting Rey to be in active communication with Kylo and the developments and revelations that arose as a result changed the landscape of their relationship and so the plan simply changed?
I know thats not what was originally planned hence the existence of the deleted scene, but it still works…’from a certain point of view’ ? 😃
Poppa…
You are a god among men!
Exactly.
I do think some more window reflection/enhancement would be welcome if it’s possible, but it’s not massively distracting as is IMO.
I can see the points presented by the last few posts here, so maybe the first shot of the scene just needs a little ‘something’ to help smooth it in to the edit?
As above maybe a glass/screen-esque reflection? or maybe some slight camera shake/motion to sort of replicate the use of a gimbal? Maybe both?
I think it’s just that the shot looks too ‘clean’, the only way I can describe it is that it feels like it’s shot on a low budget TV set?
I’d argue that Rose and Finn also seem too clean and relaxed considering what they’ve been through?..but there’s nothing that you can do with the performance aspect.
However Poppa IS a genius with shot manipulation so maybe if he deems it worthwhile he can do something with that aspect to help massage it in so that it just doesn’t seem so tonally distinct from what preceded it?
Ok, made slight updates to the Rebel Ring shot timing and Finn speeder targeting screen (even a tweak to the Finn cockpit shot), which is posted to the same vimeo links. Currently, I’m rendering out a new workprint, which should be ready tonight and posted tomorrow. Thank you!
Hey Poppa,
I promise I’ll leave you alone soon, but I just caught something else that I thought I might present to you?
It’s not so much of a change, but actually the undoing of a change?
The former deleted scene of Finn and Rose abourd the shuttle immediately after their escape from the ‘Supremacy’:-
That’s always stuck out to me. There’s nothing wrong with it, at least technically, but it just doesn’t ‘sit right’
I can’t tell if it’s tonally, where it’s just a quiet dialogue moment after such a bombastic sequence feeling jarring?
Or whether it’s unfinished VFX? Where the first shot appears too static and like a cheap set? (I don’t know whether adding in a reflection to indicate a screen/canopy would help with that?)
But something isn’t quite right, so I wondered whether it was worth asking the question on whether the information/dialogue delivered justifies it’s inclusion?
I’m sure some could argue that it plays into Finn’s arc of acceptance and belonging amongst the resistance by him stating that they are heading to ‘where they belong’ but I’m not sure that theme is part of Finn’s journey in TLJ? It’s more of an un-needed carry over from TFA.
By the start of TLJ he’s already part of the inner circle and the only reason he tries to leave and gets mistaken for a deserter is out of concern for Rey and not wanting her to return to the danger, so I don’t think his sense of belonging is relevant and in need of affirming within this scene and hence it could be deemed redundant?
To compound the above, part of me wonders if taking it back to the original edit here actually adds some tension when Finn and Rose approach the bunker on Crait?
Not that it was ever super suspenseful, but having enough time to almost forget that Finn and Rose are out there and potentially enroute means that when they do show up it’s more of a homecoming/surprise/crowd pleaser?
There’s also the question of whether deescalating their situation here is a false flag(?), considering the next time we see them they are inexplicably being pursued by two TIE Fighters?
I know you could argue that the original sequence doesn’t explain this either, but aside from escaping the capital ship explosion, their fates were unresolved and there wasn’t any overt indication that they were fully out of peril? So, I quite like that by the time they are properly re-united with their friends, they have been through quite an ordeal!
They just survived near execution and a capital ship explosion, launched a daring escape in an enemy shuttle, been chased by TIE’s where they narrowly manage to get home but not before getting involved in a fiery crash and then coming under under friendly fire. They go through all of this before they are afforded any sort of respite.
I think giving them the breather that this scene allows not only slows the momentum out of the movie at a point that doesn’t feel organic but also potentially detracts from the character’s resilience all the while without really bringing anything new to the table?
I don’t know, I’m sorry to bombard you with ideas for changes etc, but I feel you are really getting into the final run on this project now, so I figure now might have just been a good time to go over things that have just sort of been there, never offending but not really bringing anything either?
I’ve got no issue with the scene itself or it’s presence in the cut but I do know that every time I see it, I do notice it, it feels added in and pulls me out of the flow of events whereas nothing in the rest of the movie does that, so I wondered what your thoughts on it’s continued inclusion were?
UPDATE:-
I just read through the ‘changes log’ to see if I could get behind the reason of the inclusion of the scene.
I see now that it’s a callback or in service to the earlier deleted scene that was restored between Finn and Poe.
That makes sense, and I can see the logic here…but I can honestly say that I had never put those pieces together!?
As I have never made that connection on any of the multiple times I have watched this, is it possible that that first moment between Finn and Poe just doesn’t resonate enough to carry all the way through to that point in the film and then hit it’s mark? If not, does it still warrant the callback in what may otherwise be a potentially redundant scene?
I think the first deleted scene has a LOT of merit. It’s dynamic, fast paced and has some really good, snappy character interaction and it serves the purpose of bringing Finn up to speed on the events he wasn’t party to at the end of TFA.
To offer my objective opinion, I think it’s THIS scene that is the payoff, where Finn’s arc from TFA is fully resolved (even though it’s delivered in a way that makes it seem like it’s no big deal…)
We, the audience have never really had any doubts about where Finn’s allegiances lie or whether or not he’s a coward, so maybe it’s Ok that the movie doesn’t make a big song and dance about it either and just moves on to other things by the 20 min mark?
It’s actually within the spirit of TLJ to drop the threads and conventions it doesn’t have any interest in exploring, so maybe this approach is right on point? 😃
Hi poppasketti,
While Hals Legendary edit has always been my go to for TLJ myself and a few others have been keep to see the third lession scene reinserted back in.
This will also mean having the caretakes back in the background to a degee but the lession conveys so well to Rey and us the audiense that Jedi of old would rather meditate over “their” force then get involved in other peoples problems. This strengthens beliefs as to why Luke is in isolation and his reasoning as to let the Jedi of old end.
Lukes 3rd Lession ClipHals stated he does’nt have any interest in an alternate version of TLJ Legenday with this scene and caretakers but would this be something you’d entertain?
Hey, Bud
Not to speak for anyone else but I think the decision across multiple edits is that the amount of work required to complete the abandoned VFX on this sequence in order for it not to seem thrown in or bolted on as an after thought is too much for many editors to justify the time/trouble?
I could be very wrong, and it’s certainly not my place to pass comment but that’s just what I’ve gleaned from similar questions being asked previously?
I am curious though and just as a means of having a conversation, what is it that you prefer about HAL’s TLJ? Not that there’s anything wrong with that view! (I really am just being curious?)
Hal’s TFA: Restructured is my go to cut of TFA
I really think Hal fully unlocked the magic within that movie.
However, Poppa win’s it for me with his TLJ Rekindled. I know his project started on the foundation of Hal’s Legendary, but I really feel he’s found his rhythm with this project now and it’s really starting to take on a life of it’s own to the same extent as Hal’s TFA and hence I don’t think I could go back to the original cut now.
Hi Poppam
That targeting screen looks AMAZING. I can’t tell exactly what you’ve done to refine it from the first pass, but it looks so good (it even looks like the speeder’s perspective is slightly changing as it gets closer!) You’ve Absolutely NAILED IT!
Broom boy also looks great now! Whatever you’ve shaved off is now really working!!
Re: The tweak to Finn’s cockpit shot, would I pushing my luck and/or your patience to ask that you go further with the blast flash? Whether it’s increase it’s saturation further into frame and/oror extend out the duration by a few frames?
My point of reference here and what actually brought me to even bring it up is seeing what you did with Rose being shot down.
So I analysed both sequences frame by frame.
Rose’s shoot down, the event seems to take place over 5 key frames? And the blast eats approx 1/4 into the frame (not including the reflection element you added…NICE TOUCH!)
What also works nicely to sell it is that the surrounding contrast of the sand planes and a grey-ish speeder in full natural daylight allows the red/yellow explosion animation to show itself nicely.
When breaking down Finn’s shot, it seems the primary event takes place over 3 frames, is quite considerably less intrusive into the frame (by design due to the distance he is sitting from the wing) and the overall orange colour ambience of the shot also serves to camoflage the lighting elements you’ve added in?..which probably explains why I missed it the first time…the overall speed of the event and the colouring?
So I was wondering whether it might be worth pushing this a bit further?
Maybe a whiter flash/explosion that last a few more frames, and enters into the frame a touch more?
The shot could even end with the element still in shot as it encroaches further inward?
Anyhow, you might have tried all this in the past and it might not have worked and hence subtle might have been the way to go here?
I can tell you’ve tried to keep the effect natural. It IS correct in relation to the geography/distance of the impact and the colour of the explosion, which is consistent with what you’d expect in real life.
But I wonder if you might need to exaggerate the effect in order to compensate for the overall colouring of the shot? and considering how well you sold Rose getting shot down, I figured it might be worth comparing the subtle version against a more extreme version of the same idea to see what sells the moment best overall?
Yes, to be clear, it’s not a recent addition, it’s always been a part of Rekindled. If you look to the left before he turns, some sparks fly, and there’s a flash of brightness on the left side of the cockpit and his face.
Saw it! it was quite well hidden due to it being amongst the red colour casting/colour grade of the battering ram beam, but yup, I see it now.
Actually, I’ve already added sparks and lightning effects (even some sounds) to the Finn shot in the cockpit! You might not have a before and after ready, but there’s definitely a few new elements to the moment where Finn turns his head.
Ha!! that’s BRILLIANT.
No, I haven’t seen those additions…but I’m going to go check it out right now!
I think regardless of whether we need to push it further and tweak a little more, the ending will not have the rebel ring!
smpearce1981, thanks for pushing me on the idea and bringing the proof of concept with the speeder to get it all to work. I will probably tweak the movement of the ship a little more, but otherwise I think it’s close!
I just had another thought on some fine detail that might help sell the finish on Finn’s speeder getting shot down?
Looking at the Finn close up and reaction shot at 01.12 (in the clip)
He closes his eyes in preparation to die, then we have our sound cue of the blast which causes him to react by looking to his right (our left)
Could a flash or even a sparks/flame element be added from the left of frame, in sync with the sound cue and his reaction to visually indicate the blast too?
I think it might just help blend the edit into the following external shot of the speeder taking the hit…since when we cut to that shot, the speeder is already partially destroyed? (I know this is due to editing out Rose’s speeder) so visually implying the impact in the shot before should help bridge that nano-second gap in the visuals?
It;s something you may have dabbled with previously, and it may not work…but since we are looking at the fine details of these moments with fresh eyes, it was something that crossed my mind?
I think regardless of whether we need to push it further and tweak a little more, the ending will not have the rebel ring!
smpearce1981, thanks for pushing me on the idea and bringing the proof of concept with the speeder to get it all to work. I will probably tweak the movement of the ship a little more, but otherwise I think it’s close!
As for your suggestions for the ending, I’ve tried rearranging the shots in different ways, including the way you suggested, but I can say confidently that it wont’t work. For one, it feels like a jump-cut to go from the hyperspace shot to the wide of the boy. More importantly, the music cue when ship streaks across the stars is inextricably linked to the shot. It’s so perfectly executed by John Williams that breaking them apart feels wrong. That leaves the few seconds as the music is swelling, where we really only have two shots to work with: the 2nd closeup of the boy and the end shot. We can play with lengthening one and shortening the other, but that’s about the extent of it. Still, thanks for the suggestion!
Axios said:
One question though, it seams Rose lost her “no” line…was that intentional, cause right now she is just mouthing the word and looks a bit strange. Does it have to do with the louder line?That’s a mistake, thanks for catching! I’ll recheck the sequence tomorrow.
It’s totally my pleasure, although it feels wrong that I am accepting any gratitude from you, Not because it isn’t welcome but because it’s me who’s grateful.
I’m very aware that as a member of this community who doesn’t contribute any content, that sometimes any comments or suggestions I make can seem a bit rich? Expecting people more skilled than me to listen to my ideas/opinions on the work that they have devoted their own blood sweat and tears into producing without having those skills myself.
This seemed like a unique opportunity where I could make a suggestion and actually offer something up to support it, whether it was used or not, at least I was bringing something to the table?
So, I’m thrilled that you even took the time to look at it, let alone implement it…and hence my gratitude.
With regard to your comments on the Broom Boy sequence:- of course you had tried every possible combination! I apologise if my suggestions were like teaching you to suck eggs.
As above, I don’t like to be one of those people who makes any sort of criticism (no matter how minor) without bringing anything constructive to the table, even if that is just explaining my thought process.
Anyhow, thanks again, Poppa. I LOVE what you are doing over here.
Hi Poppa
Re: Broom boy and the ring. Go with your instincts on what works best for you.
The truth is, You’ll never please everyone so if it’s going to be a split vote, your own preference should be what decides it.
I just rewatched it…and it does get better with subsequent views, but i just had a thought (which in all honesty probably wont work)
Have you toyed with reordering the shots at all.
Currently it’s:-
I just wondered if
The truth is that holding the close up/slow zoom for that entirety over one shot will probably be too much.
But the idea behind the suggestion is this:-
The lingering close up is broom boy watching the ship. So we switch to his pov just as it jumps to HS
but rather than falling back to him watching ‘empty space’ he is more immediately roused into wanting to be a hero?
I don’t know, without seeing it it’s impossible to tell if there’s anything to it.
Another suggestion is to keep the order of shots the same but rather than hold so long on the Second close up of broom boy, instead slow the shot of the ship for as long as possible until it jumps?
As if it’s in a nice slow steady cruise and then BOOM (original timing resumes)
As above, there might not be enough material to work with and even if there is, there might be limits to how slow you can make it before it just looks overly manipulated and hence draws too much attention to itself?
But, Im just throwing some ideas out there to see if there’s any other way to balance out the removal of the ring whilst still using the same overall timings?
Poppa, I am so unbelievably flattered! Thankyou!
It looks great!
Im truly honoured to have been able to make even a small contribution to your work!
Thankyou for even entertaining the idea! Let alone implementing it.
You can also use VLC player to recontainerize H264 from mkv to mp4 without transcoding. Hal’s audio should already be AC3.
PM incoming
smpearce don’t let my cynicism discourage you, without suggestions we wouldn’t have great fanedits, so there’s the other side of the coin. Also I’d suggest ripping using makemkv or dvdfab in 2160p then if the video is in HEVC try lossless container conversion to mp4 using VLC media player. Otherwise do a HQ conversion in Handbreak in 2160p. You can easily work with 4K on a basic laptop in Premiere and Final Cut using proxy files.
Hey Kraus
No criticism or discouragement taken offensively at all.
It’s all fair comment/advice/observation.
A quick question then as I don’t want to sabotage Hal’s thread with tech help, but if I wanted to play with Hal’s edit from the 30gb MKV, rather than my own rip (due to wanting to keep 99.9 percent of Hal’s work) how would I strip that MKV down to it’s x264 component parts so I can get it into remiere.
Funnily enough, I’ve just had a thought…TSmuxr…that might break apart the container.
However, bracing myself for the fact that might not work, I’d be keen to get your advice.
If it’s more prudent to take this conversation to PM’s I’m happy to continue there if you have the time?
Sorry for going off topic here, Hal
As per above I’ve done a little bit more to try and hone in on matching the style of the source material.
I’m using this perspective based on the AT-AT being to the elevated right of the Battering Ram canon…which is where I feel the shot most likely came from…considering the inertia of the blast impact knocked the speeder out to the left?
Anyhow, it’s still not there yet…but:-
Here’s the comparison:-
I think I’ve got the silhouette right, but I need to work on the contrast between light and dark to roughen it up a bit
…if the idea does go any further obviously the devil in in the details and so then it might be worth incorporating the damage to the gun turrets and the mono-skate, but that’s an easy fix.
1:56:09 alright thats fair, I cant expect you to be a magician lol, thanks for the camera shake though. even just a green light in the corner would do a world of help though.
Okay, so I went back and added some lights, and an overall red push to match the red look of the walker cockpits:
Crait Battle (targeting shot at 1:10)
https://vimeo.com/289775362
pw: faneditAlso adjusted the end shot to shorten the boy’s last closeup a bit:
Ending - No Rebel Ring
https://vimeo.com/393368723
pw: faneditNOTE: I’m probably going to render a new V3 workprint tonight with the latest changes for those interested. Should be up tomorrow in the same location!
Hi Poppa
RE: Broomboy, it’s definitely getting there, but I know that there is only so much you can do
I think I’m still in the ‘leave it as per the original’ camp overall.
My reason being that because the shot has to hold so long to play to the original music cues, that the audience is unconsciously expecting something to happen. The pacing screams ‘suspense’ to what is ultimately a non-suspenseful payoff? Emotional and/or rousing? Yes. Suspenseful? No (?)
Anyhow
With regard to the targeting computer, I’ve been thinking about that since you’ve come to revisit it.
I adore what you’ve done to this sequence with the Finn shoot down, and adding that repeated shot was/is such an inventive way of visually depicting the new action.
It’s such a perfect idea and a really creative workaround for the limitations of the source material.
BUT if you are going to tinker with it, here is my suggestion for working your magic.
The shot as is, is clearly a repeat shot. Your work to differentiate it here is a step in the right direction, but if you want a critical eye (?) the ‘problem’ with re-using the shot is that the visuals depict the speeder being targeted from behind, where as I’ve always perceived that the shot coming from the Front Right? (wow, it’s like JFK…‘back and to the left’)
I just did a bit of playing in Photoshop, just to see what reversing the shot would do, but it doesn’t do anything positive because it still shows the rear end of the speeder.
So, here’s the bit that I hate doing…making suggestions to someone more talented than me to do something I could never do…but my thoughts are this:-
I’ve googled the Ski Speeder for images, and there are plenty from the front. Especially the toys, which are obviously lower in detail than the actual CG models, which might actually be quite useful considering the low res displays on SW the HUD’s of vehicles in the SW universe.
How hard would it be to convert a 2d image/photo of a toy from the correct angle and make an 8bit B&W image out if it, and then make a crude animation over the top of a blank plate of the targeting display?
I’m going to play with the making the image, but the animation and compositing is too far beyond me…but I would argue probably not beyond you?
The real question is, does that idea interest you and/or is the work even worth it for the sake of a single shot…especially when what you have already is totally adequate.
Just a thought though, which I’ve only brought to the table because you are clearly playing with the shot anyway?
Much gratitude and respect
Stu
Update: 20 mins image sourcing and playing in photoshop so I can at least offer a ‘proof of concept’, I’ve come up with this. It’s far from perfect, but it’s a start?
Option B for the inclusion of the Wilhelm is nothing short of MASTERFUL. I Love it!!! 😃
Re: the removal of the insignia ring:- For me personally, the ring was never something that bothered me one way or another. I can see the logic for it’s removal, especially considering the much needed reduction of the Canto-bight sequence, so calling back to it when we never saw Rose give it, makes the shot completely redundant.
Overall the solution works, but I do think the close up of Broom Boy just lingers too long?
I know why, to compensate for the removal of the ring shot whilst preserving the timing of the score.
As I’ve said above, as an imperfect solution to an impossible problem, it DOES work…I’m just not sure it works better than simply leaving it alone?
Ultimately, I have such a low investment in the presence or absence of this shot, whatever Poppa decides to do with it makes no odds to me…and I mean that with full compliments to Poppa’s work on this project.
It’s so completely the definitive version of TLJ for me, that it would take a lot more than this shot to deviate me from my love for what he has done.
Simple editing of video is not too hard or godlike (yet amazing things can be accomplished with just this alone). Kudos to those who remove center channel audio smoothly. Double kudos to those who replace portions of the soundtrack. Triple kudos to those who add VFX using after effects (like poppasketti).
Easy solution to most everyone who wants a custom edit:
- load the video file into Vegas/Final Cut/Premiere
- use the slicer to make edits and move scenes around
- crossfade the audio between the clips
- export the project
- watch it over and over until Rian Johnson comes out with his own trilogy
Funnily enough, I have ‘tried’ that…but I’ve found Premiere doesn’t accept the MKV container, so it stopped me in my tracks before I even got started.
I know I could convert the file to an acceptable format, but then we are talking potential quality loss across conversions.
I did even try a down and dirty down conversion just to tinker around with a really scruffy workprint, but then the audio wasn’t recognised.
At that point I just gave up.
I’m no stranger to Blu-Ray ripping, so I assume I could use the raw/lossless files, but when the only thing I’d want to change from Hals edit is that one order of scenes…I couldn’t face doing a re-edit from the ground up on that basis alone. esecially considering:-
Hal has rightly said his piece, and since I can’t bring anything of my own to the table, I accept it and continue to be grateful that we have what we have, which is definitely superior to the official cut!
In reality when it comes to movies/shows/fan edits and the creative decisions made by anyone other than ourselves, we can all have our 'what if’s and ‘if only’s’ but where does it end? I suppose eventually you just have to settle on what you are given?
I mean, I’d love to see ‘Restructured’ remade in 4k HDR once the UHD Blu-Ray officially releases…but that’s highly unlikely considering the hardware that would be required to export an edit like that, let alone the time and effort required by someone like Hal to effectively start the whole project again from scratch 😃
I’m good with what Hal has offered and I’m grateful for it.
I do wish I had the constitution to be a more constructive contributor to this community by offering my own alternatives/visions…but I’m self aware enough to simply admit that I’m simply not competent enough to do it, so the best I’ve got is just some good, solid ‘back seat driving’ advice 😃
…but we all know how people feel about back seat drivers! Hence, I’m gunna shut up now 😃
Hi Hal
Sorry to bring up an old request but since Nev nailed it in his edit and it can be seen in action, have you had or would you consider any re-evaluation on the ordering of scenes immediately after the Falcons jump to hyperspace following the Kanjaklub/Rathtar sequence.
Nev’s instincts on what follows matches my own.
That right after ‘inform the first order’ etc
In your cut you jump straight to the First order and the Han/Kylo reveal before Snoke scene before cutting back to the Falcon.
Nev’s cut continues the Falcon scenes…which makes so much more sense chronologically, helps the pacing and also gives some ‘real time’ for the messages about BB8 being in the possession of Han Solo some time to make it’s way and be digested by the top brass of the FO.
I know you had concerns that cutting from the Falcon jumping to hyperspace and then back to it would seem more jarring, but I think Nev’s approach demonstrates otherwise.
I LOVE your cut of TFA it’s my ‘go to’ but that one single editing choice is the ONLY one that doesn’t quite hit the mark.
I say this because normally you could logically assume there was a time jump between scenes…but when we return to the events on the falcon no ‘in story’ development has occurred so theres a chronological misstep.
As your guiding light for this project is just a gentle restructure, i personally feel it’s worth another look.
I respect your prerogative as the owner here, and if it hadn’t worked in Nev’s edit, I wouldn’t be re-asking the question.
So…i’ll leave it with you One last time with nothing but gratitude and respect for your work
Wow!
Stunning notes, Dom and genuinely insightful/constructive criticism!
I’ll take it all on board and have another tinker with it again tomorrow?
Thanks, bud 😃
Ps
I feel like it might be weird to have the word “rise” in the opening sentence if it is in the film’s title?
I totally never put 2 and 2 together here.
Nice spot!
Would a wilhelm integrate both tonally and from an AV perspective with any of the resistance skimmer/speeders getting shot down on Crait?
‘Heir to the Jedi…’ is correct, if semi-archaic.
I don’t think it would be wrong to say something like “heir to the throne,” and “heir of the throne” would sound wrong. ‘Jedi’ acts as a noun in this case.But hey, we’ll see what the crawl ends up like. It’s one of the best parts of doing these edits.
Hi HAL, I promise I’m not wanting to be disrespectful or be perceived to be argumentative:-
HOW is it correct? (other than it being the title of an old EU novel?)
Your examples are interesting:
Heir TO THE * throne = an object, a thing - it works.
Heir OF THE *throne does not. I totally agree
I think where the distinction has to be made is in what actually IS a Jedi?
A Jedi is not an object or a thing that warrants ownership?
A Jedi has been established to be a person/individual who practices an ideology - follows the Jedi code etc
Alternatively, The Jedi can be used when defining someone who practices that ideology (‘The Jedi’, as per: ‘The boy’, The Girl etc) or can be used in the plural for to describe a group of individuals in that group (‘The Jedi’ are extinct as per: ‘The Dinosaurs are extinct’)
To be an heir or ‘inheritor’ implies that there is ‘a right of transfer’ whether that’s of social standing or of assets etc from one individual to another.
Now, you could be an Heir to the Jedi…BUT this is where it becomes about context.
Jedi are supposedly/commonly considered to be non-possessive. So to inherit or possess THE Jedi (the individual OR the collective) the implied ownership is decidedly non Jedi-like.
To be an Heir to the Empire works, the context is self defining, you can inherit and possess it because an Empire is generally ruled or overseen by one (or a few)…it inherently implies the RULERSHIP of others.
And I think that’s my point, Heir TO THE Jedi, may be technically fine to use (context dependent) but what it implies is wrong in this instance?
For example:
If the Story was that of Rey leading the Jedi and altering their values for her own nefarious purposes and eventually taking control, I think it would totally work, but that’s not what’s happening here, and I’m pretty sure that’s not what you are trying to achieve in the edit?
Now, I’m totally happy to be wrong here but I’d just like to know how ‘Heir to the Jedi’ is grammatically/contextually correct in it’s usage here?
Please know that I fully appreciate how his will be YOUR edit, hence you are totally entitled to put ANYTHING in the crawl that you want, it will be yours and the only person you have to justify your decisions to is yourself and regardless of any of the changes you make to the movie, I’ll be queuing up to watch it just like everyone else, so I assure you I’m not trying to speak out of turn or muscle into your work, so once again please do not take this as anything other than me just trying to understand the angle?
Maybe I’ve said this before, but this current paragraph 2 in the OP (which everyone is working off of)
Rey, sole heir to the Jedi, continues her training under General Leia Organa, hoping to commune with Jedi of the past.
doesn’t really accomplish much, because we don’t learn anything from this that we don’t find out within 30 seconds of seeing Rey. Anyone looking to rewrite the crawl should take a crack at that, I think. Personally I would recommend either trying to give some insight as to why she’s doing this, or use the space to talk about something else entirely.
Ok challenge accepted:-
Here’s where the logic was in mine - with notes on my process (ie I didn’t just make changes for changes sake)
‘The Resistance rises!
(removing direct references to Palpatine and now trying to convey that the Resistence is in a much stronger position than when we last saw them at the end of TLJ)
Luke Skywalker’s sacrifice at the battle of Crait has reignited the spark of hope across the galaxy and hundreds more freedom fighters have joined in the fight against the tyranical FIRST ORDER
(really emphasise that Luke dying wasn’t in vain and his actions may have turned the tide)
and their new Supreme Leader, KYLO REN.
REY, the last of the Jedi lineage:-
(The other suggestion ‘Heir to the Jedi’ sounds wrong?
Heir to the Jedi what? In this context there needs to be something else ie Heir to the Jedi throne
‘The Jedi’ have always been referenced as a singular individual person or in plural as a group of people?
Like a religion? a tribe? a movement?
If you apply parallel context:-
ie
Heir to the christians’,
Heir to the ‘jews’,
Heir to the ‘SW Fans’
…It doesn’t work. Heir TO THE is wrong here, so I used of the instead)
(Was going to settle on ‘The last of the Jedi’ however I added ‘lineage’ to explain that Rey is not a full Jedi yet but still highlight that the core of her training is directly linked to legitimate Jedi practice an/or practitioners established across the series so far:- Yoda> Qui-gon> Obi-Wan> Luke> Rey…(equals Lineage?)
continues her training under the guidance of GENERAL LEIA ORGANA, and attempts to communicate with the great Jedi from the past, hoping that their wisdom will help her during the confrontation to come:-
(Ok, maybe there is still work to do here…but I think fundamentally it serves it’s purpose, because 1) she can’t communicate with dead Jedi yet 2) Explains why it be important that she tries too…she seeks their wisdom to learn more/apply it/become more powerful…Leia’s limited Jedi/Force knowledge isn’t enough to get Rey where she needs to be to be considering that it’s only a matter of time before they have to fight the first order again)
(so what am I trying to say in plain words:-
Rey is doing the best she can to develop her powers considering all that she’s got is a few old books and Leia’s limited knowledge, but if she could just make contact with the experts in their field she might finally get some specific answers to some specific questions and level up quicker…which would be really helpful cos the first order are coming and last time she met Kylo Ren they were evenly matched…she needs an advantage and is not above trying to take shortcuts)
Meanwhile, KYLO REN leads an assault on MUSTAFAR:-
(at least explain that the opening scene is a familiar location)
in search of an artefact:-
(explain the objective and add context when the Mcguffin is revealed 30 seconds later)
that will guide him to the source of a mysterious presence that offers a dark alliance, one that will help him crush his enemies once and for all…’
(Trying not to reveal the identity of Palpatine at this stage but explain why Kylo is motivated to investigate
He might not trust the source or the offer, but it’s worth exploring. If it’s not all as promised he’ll just kill the person who’s messing with him, but it’s definitely worth taking a look if it helps him solidify his rule)
I appreciate that I’m bias towards my own creative endeavour, however I do think the mine works well as a launching point for the movie. It gets us up to speed on the general state of play and it explains the motivations of the key players and the initial mechanisms involved within the allotted 3 paragraph structure.
The language is deliberately meant to be quite ‘pulpy’ and not trying to be too complex or clever.
It might still be too long though?
I also hope that I’ve been able to explain my thought process’s throughout, so that where I’ve made changes to the orognal proposal it doesn’t look like I’ve just erased it to do my own thing.
Also, just kind of wanting to gauge people’s interest in a fan edit where Ben Solo lives at then end of TROS. You can vote here to help give me a sense if people would like to see it.
Yes, I’m keen on seeing a version where Ben lives!
My little fan-fiction brain went into overdrive after seeing the movie as I was slightly saddened that Ben died…not because it was actually sad, but because it seemed to end an exciting character with lots of un-mined potential.
Please excuse me whilst I briefly deviate from the core discussion, but my ‘pitch’ for the ongoing story of Ben Solo is where he is effectively a Jedi ‘John Wick’ :-p
Ben’s years spent as Kylo Ren mean he can never join the good guys, he’s caused to much hurt and pain to ever be accepted. In fact, he’s probably officially considered a War criminal?
So, he’s committed himself to a life of exile where he’s just a drifter looking to carve out a little bit of the galaxy for himself, trying to keep a low profile and live out the rest of his days in relative peace.
BUT like any good anti-hero he’s not a saint!
He isn’t some more evolved, zen version of himself - like your normal, run of the mill Jedi-hermit - he’s a chip off the old block, he’s a Rogue and he still has all the edginess associated with his bloodline.
Anyhow, his darker past has a habit of catching up with him and that continually forces him into situations where he gets to unleash lots of savage, Jedi badassery when the circumstances call for it.
So yes, please someone try keeping Ben alive? if for no other reason than to let me pretend that there might be an alternate version of a Galaxy Far Far Away where this could all play out 😃
