poppasketti said:

I would also recommend Resolve. Once you get over the unique quirks, I think there’s a edit style consistency between FCP7, Premiere, and Resolve. Tutorials should help get you quickly acquainted, too. I didnt have the same problem RL had, but I did skip the fall update because of issue with slow playback. They just released another update (16.2) recently so hopefully they fixed that.

I totally need lessons 😃

I’ve got resolve and Premiere. Aside from the VERY basics I’ve not touched an edit since 2004, so I’m totally behind the curve on working the software now.

I have so much difficulty with audio.

1. Let’s say I wanted to tinker with either Hal’s or your work using the 30+gb MKV/H.264’s

Neither software seem to recognise the audio codec’s, so there’s that as my first hurdle.

But somehow I overcame that, but then I could not work out crossfading and level adjustment.

Once upon a time you could adjust it direct from the audio line and raise/lower the gain using markers and ‘keyframes’

That seemingly no longer exists and I’m out of touch 😦

ChainsawAsh said:

Agreed, very well argued, but:

All y’all are forgetting her sensing Luke calling to her at the end of ESB… smh

Oooh good catch!!

However, despite this being a legit instance that went overlooked, it’s still on point/theme, right?

As in, it’s still a one way ‘conversation’ with it being Luke calling to Leia?

If I’m remembering it right, she could still be classed as being ‘passive’ in this moment?

She’s sensing Luke being in distress, she might even be literally hearing Luke call out to her…but she’s not broadcasting back.

I know she acknowledges the call by saying ‘Luke?’ but I always interpreted that as her saying it to herself out of realisation that she is feeling his presence and having some sort of intuition that he needs help?

Anyhow, well caught Chainsaw!

EddieDean said:

smpearce, I’m convinced too. Well argued.

Hey Eddie,

Well, it was certainly a worthy question to bring to the table and I can totally see where you were coming from in trying to determine if ‘more’ was needed.

But after going down the rabbit hole with it on the backs of both Poppa and ChainsawAsh’s comments, I just landed on the hidden beauty that presents itself as a result of removing ‘Leia Poppins’

Like Poppa, I was pretty indifferent to the original sequence and I just preferred it’s ommission as it just helped keep things less outlandish…but it seems there’s actually scope to interpret many more layers from it and I think that now we’ve found that extra subtext it’s quite rewarding?

I don’t know if anyone saw TiMartyn’s spin on this scene?

He kept the majority of it intact, but reworked it to feature Luke.

In his version, Rey’s arrival prompts Luke to reconnect to the force and check in on Leia just as the attack occurs. Luke then uses his powers to recover her back to the safety of the ship.

It was an interesting take on the scene, as it really sets up how powerful Luke has become a lot earlier in the movie.

It was a really solid idea and executed pretty well but something ultimately felt slightly off about it, whereas Poppa’s approach just keeps it clean and concise so that the movie is allowed to move on without drawing attention to itself by arguably jumping the shark

I’ve been thinking about how much force sensitivity Leia demonstrates across the Sequel trilogy all day, to try and get a hold on whether the removal of Leia Poppins does present a thematic character inconsistency as we head into TROS.

I don’t think it does. At all.

As others have mentioned, Leia’s force sensitivity/skill has ONLY ever been implied since the reveal in ROTJ. And all that we’ve ever SEEN is that Leia is adept at being tuned in to the fates and feelings of her loved ones.

In ROTJ she recalls her mothers sadness, intuitively understands her family connection to Luke and senses/feels that Luke is safe and survived the explosion of the Death Star at the end.

In TFA she feels the death of Han.

In TLJ she senses Ben’s presence and turmoil in his fighter as he debates pulling the trigger on her. She also senses the death of Luke.

In TROS she senses the danger that both Ben and Rey are placing themselves in as they fight…and she chooses to intervene by reaching out to Ben.

This is the one instance where we see her pro-actively use her power to be more than just a passive observer, and under the circumstances, considering the stakes for both of her ‘children’ in that moment, it’s appropriate and relatable.

Leia’s force powers primarily seem to revolve around her intuition(?) and to that end it’s completely consistent in how it’s demonstrated across all 4 movies where force sensitivity has been an attributed to her character.

Infact, if you really think about it, you could argue that ‘Leia Poppins’ is the one instance where her use of the force completely deviates from all that came before and all that comes after, so maybe it’s removal is even more justified in order to maintain consistency.

It also means that her ONE defining force moment is now saved until TROS - the finale and it’s the moment that she reaches out to Ben in order to save Rey, and in so doing she gives her life.

Whether or not the importance/meaning of that moment stuck the landing when it came to it’s execution is another question entirely, but thematically the idea is quite powerful, so now that I’ve given it some actual thought, I’m even more convinced now that the removal of Leia Poppins is the right call. Not only within the context of TLJ, but TROS too.

Hal 9000 said:

TFA V4 (fixed) is up on the usual places. 😃

THANK YOU SO MUCH, HAL!!!

I was also really drawn to another idea: so much is made in the film of the resistance sending out a radio signal for help, hoping for a response which tragically never comes. What would really twist the knot would be if they did get a response, and it was Palpatine’s broadcast. It would be an extreme low point for our heroes, but there was no practical way to pull it off <

Man, I LOVE this idea of really turning the knife in this moment!

Yet, I can totally appreciate how it can’t work…trying to magic up a minute’s worth of ‘reaction footage’ from the hero’s listening in would be impossible!

…and then there would also be the tonal change to the end of the movie

The ‘tragic victory’ and the elation of surviving such a narrow escape would inherently have to be adjusted to seem more ominous if Palpatine had fully revealed himself as being alive mere minutes ago.

I’ve said this before, Poppa but you’ve nailed this edit.

You’ve planted the seeds to subtly set up ROS but successfully walked the fine line between careful alluding/leaving easter eggs and going all out and over-cooking it.

If this had been the theatrical cut, I think fans would really have enjoyed theorising and analysing all these in the years between releases.

It’s an absolute masterclass in honing in on the best way to convey your ideas without taking it to far

poppasketti said:

Ugh. So much for my QC pass. I apologize for this, folks. I know what happened and why. It has to do with an adjustment I made to check the captions, oddly enough.

I will recheck everything and re-render. Unfortunately, this means new video exports and encodes, so we’re likely looking at Sunday overnight posting.

I am again sorry, I tried to be as vigilant as I could with this and will try again.

Edit: thanks so much for catching this, Nev. I appreciate any and all QC help.

What on earth are you apologising for, Poppa??

There’s no issue here. It’s a single stray frame within an amazing body of work

…which you are under no obligation to provide to us.

I have nothing but gratitude for this.

If you choose to go in and fix it, do it as and when it suits you, but please don’t feel that you owe ANYBODY any apologies.

NeverarGreat said:

I’ve detected an error in V3 - it’s during the siege cannon run right after Finn yells ‘Rose’ and there is the shot of the Resistance officers. There is a single frame of Leia before cutting back to Finn.

Spotted it! By doing a frame by frame. As you say, it’s a single frame ‘fade in’ of Leia and 3PO.

I think it would be invisible if it wasn’t for the gold of 3PO being so contrasting against the darker lighting in the shot before.

Anyhow, its @ 1:55:24

I’ve checked it against the temporary V3 that Poppa released a few days ago and it’s not present there, but it has cropped up in the final/proper release somehow.

Aww well, I’m sure we’ll live 😃

Hal 9000 said:

It’s present in my ProRes master file. So, rather than going through several hoops to get the source fresh, I just did a crappy shape mask to copy a different portion of the frame. Looks seamless, and took hardly any time at all.

To offer a similar sentiment to Rogueleader above:-

‘Work smarter, not harder’

So glad you managed to fix it and it not be a big deal.

Just out of interest, do you know what it was or what caused it?

Hal 9000 said:

Hmm, I have no idea what that’d be. My only guess is that when I darken the shot maybe it appears when it otherwise would have blended in. Is it just a frame or two?

Nope, it runs the entire length of the shot.

From (approx) 24:32 - 24:37

As soon as it cuts to the next shot, it’s gone.

Hi Hal

I might be a bit late to this party but @ 24.32 mark, there’s a strange marker/artifact in the top left corner

Here’s a link to a screenshot to save you jumping through hoops:-

https://imgur.com/NICVFnC

It’s hardly intrusive, but I thought I’d let you know?

PS it’s from the 31GB 1080p version…I can’t speak on whether it’s present in the smaller encodes?

Stu

poppasketti said:

V3 RELEASE!

Hello and happy Friday! (Friday? Man I’ve really lost track of time while on lockdown. Stay safe everyone!) I’m pleased to say that V3 is now posted! The new files are dated “032020”.

This new version is a direct response to The Rise of Skywalker, and intends to ease the transition between the two films by teasing the surprise return of Emperor Palpatine. As often happens, the change list kept growing and we started making fixes to other parts of the film as well.

Therefore, for those not interested in any Palpatine teases in The Last Jedi, I will be updating V2 to include those other improvements.

Thank you so much to everyone at OT.com. The feedback, big and small, has helped make this version the best it can be, and I’m very proud to work with all of you! The original post had been updated. I tried to streamline it a bit more to make it less confusing (let me know if I failed!).

Once again, here are the V3 changes:

V3 PALPATINE TEASES

(PW for all vimeo links: fanedit)

• Dark Side Cave 1st Appearance Sith Whispers

  • Description: added Sith whispers as the cave first calls to Rey.

• Dark Side Cave Sith Whispers and Hood

  • Description: added Sith whispers and Palpatine’s hood appears in the reflection just before Rey’s face appears.

• Flashback Palpatine Laugh (by HAL 9000 and TiMartyn)

  • Description: added Palpatine laugh to the last Luke/Kylo flashback. Thanks to Hal 9000 for providing the audio.

• Palpatine Contact

  • Description: when Kylo is in the radio room of the rebel base on Crait, he has an unexpected contact with Palpatine.

• Snoke Sith Death - Subtle

  • Description: Snoke’s eyes flash red/yellow as he’s stabbed by the lightsaber, and then a puff of blue “Palpatine essence“ releases after his body splits in half.

• Force Skype Sounds

  • Description: added some of the Palpatine Contact sounds to other Force Skype moments.

V3 NON-PALPATINE CHANGES

• Finn Wakes

  • Description: Rey whispers “Finn” right before he wakes up, hinting at his force sensitivity.

• Praetorian Knife Continuity Fix

  • Description: removed continuity error of knife disappearing mid-shot, also had praetorian’s knife knocked away by Rey’s lightsaer strike way in the background of earlier shot.

• Deleted Shuttle Scene Improvements

  • Description: improved reflections and particles on the wide shots, fixed 3D environment on viewscreen.

• Crait Battle Tweaks

  • Description: enhanced Finn’s “Rose” reaction to her getting shot down, rotoscoped walker to turn and flex to target Finn, reversed angle of Finn’s speeder being targeted by walker (graphic provided by smpearce1981) and modified targeting graphics, cropped Finn cockpit POV shot so walker position difference isn’t noticeable (was always off, even in theatrical), adjusted angle and position of walker so it fires down and towards Finn speeder (mockup by NeverarGreat), enhanced Finn cockpit explosion effects, added explosion effect to shot of speeder coming apart, reduced music during canon explosion, cannon beams and hum removed when Finn exits crashed speeder.

• Added Wilhelm Scream

  • Description: Wilhelm!

• Broom Boy Rebel Ring Removal

  • Description: extended shots in end sequence to cover the rebel ring shot, maintaining timing.

EWWWWSH!!! HAPPY FRIDAY!!!

Thanks so much, Poppa

YOU. ARE. THE. BEST!!!

poppasketti said:

I thought that was a fun Mark Hamill moment. I understand why some might not like it, but it always worked for me. I also agree it has that added element of provoking Kylo-Ren to buy more time.

I think I’m totally locked now on V3 (hope!), making a couple subtle tweaks to the levels and an fx shot. I’m encoding now and it should take some time to make all four versions, but I hope to everything up sometime Thursday!

Hi Poppa, I genuinely cannot wait for this.

Is the 30+ gb with new tweaks up yet?

If not, would you mind giving the heads up when it is?

…I NEED THIS and so my trigger finger is at the ready 😃

Thanks so much for everything you’ve done here

Stu

I LOVE Luke dusting his shoulder!

I totally agree with Poppa and Rogue’s interpretation of it and so there’s no sense in me adding further commentary but I think it’s a fun moment and I’d be sad to lose it.

poppasketti said:

PM sent!

Also, V3 is ready for export and should be posted in the next few days.

CANNOT. WAIT!!!

Poppa,

Absolute. Masterpiece

…and that’s all I have to say about that.

😃

Hi Poppa,

I’m coming back to give a second round of Kudos!

I’ve just rewatched this (again…and again). I genuinely can’t get over how great this looks!!!

I know you said it was really challenging, so I didn’t want that to go under appreciated.

It looks so good, I’ve frame-by-framed it, slowed it down, and put it on repeat. It’s faultless…even down to the shadow work.

I never imagined you could have taken an idea so insignificant with details so minor and turned it into something so polished. It looks awesome!

Once again, thank you for all of your time and effort that you are putting into this. It really is a stunning piece of work across the board!

Cheers, man

Stu

Ha!!! POPPA, YOU DID IT!!

I love it!

I think the ‘digging in’ is an even better idea than a head turn.

1. it’s in theme from what we’ve seen them do when taking aim.

2. it’s subtle yet significant enough to see that walker doing something

3. I love that the ‘digging in’ animation looks so defiant and determined

Like that particular pilot’s resolve is equal to Finn’s, so he’s laying it all down for a do or die shot!

Great great work, Poppa!!!

Stu

StarkillerAG said:

jarbear said:

^^^ Hahah, if one could do it, perfectly though, it would be funny the “old” AT-AT does shoots down Finn’s speeder when the “brand new ones” can’t do it.

But doesn’t one of the new AT-ATs shoot down Finn in Poppa’s version? If you animated one of the old AT-ATs, then had one of the new ones make the shot, it would cause a continuity error.

I personally don’t think the idea is necessary. It seems like way too much work for almost nothing. Finn’s crash comes out of nowhere in the theatrical version too, so it’s not a big deal for me.

I called it an ATAT out of laziness/speed. To clarify, I am talking about the/a ‘Gorilla’ walker.

Sorry not to be specific enough, I appreciate it’s confusing since there are actual ATAT’s in the scene 😃

I’ll put up a screenshot shortly just to clarify the shot and walker I’m talking about.

Anyhow, I agree that it IS ultimately unnecessary. As I said it’s just detail for details sake and is such a small detail its probably just not worth the effort on this occasion.

My only counter point to the ‘it’s supposed to be a surprise/come out of nowhere’ argument, raised by Jarbear is this:-

It still would be?..because no first time viewer is looking for it in that moment.

All bets are off in subsequent viewings because the surprise element is only a surprise the first time?

After that, the ongoing reward for a viewer is in appreciating the details, the set up?

As above, the walkers are small In the frame and the primary action which draws the audience eyes is happening elsewhere so im not proposing that the moment is accentuated, telegraphed or highlighted in any way…only that it’s there for anyone purposely looking for it?

The thought process/guiding light behind most of my suggestions and offerings of ideas is that although mostly unnecessary in the wider, more general sense, it‘s just extra layers of detail that could be added to help further sell the ‘re-imagining’ of such a sequence?

What I’m saying is that the most successful fan edit’s are the ones that treat their changes as not a just fan service, corrections, or alterations to fit in with the personal preferences of the editor, but in comprehensively approaching any changes as if they were always supposed to be the way that they are now being presented or re-imagined?

Poppa’s TLJ is one of (if not THE best of) those examples?

In my opinion, Poppa has approached each change as its own story that has a beginning, middle and end and has applied the appropriate and associated logic from their very roots and as such the changes are seamlessly integrated, so my suggestion here is just another small detail in that theme…in the same way I suggested changing the targeting graphic to match the angle of approach and another member suggested the placement of the actual target on that graphic.

DETAILS. Small. Insignificant when viewed on their own, but when combined they all contribute to delivering a vision and a narrative that rivals or even exceeds the quality of the source material?

I think of it like this:

If this had been a studio release, would fans scrutinise the sequence and cry out that it’s some sort of a continuity error?

Maybe. Probably. At least knowing how passionate the SW fanbase is about EVERYTHING.

I can imagine it now:-

The potential complaints about how the At-At wasn’t sighted at Finn’s speeder in this shot and because of that, it subsequently wouldn’t have had sufficient time to shift it’s inertia to take aim between shots…IT’S A PLOT HOLE, RIAN JOHNSON HAS RUINED STARWARS!

(‘you KNOW it to be true’?)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that here, it’s just an example and it’s is small potatoes but if the fanbase could/would pick things apart to that level of detail then for fan edits/changes to blend in seamlessly they should probably be subject to similar scrutiny?

Let me be clear, im not arguing the necessity of this change to be made.

Im actually commending EVERYTHING Poppa has done on this edit and the very reason it’s so strong and so special is exactly because all of his changes have had that level of care taken.

Ok…you asked!?

But first a disclaimer.

The shot doesn’t need it. Even if you do humour me, NOONE will notice due to the composition of the shot, the audiences attention/site line is inherently drawn to the centre of said shot…

But

Going back to the Finn shoot down sequence on Crait.

Just before we start getting the close up shots, we get a wide aerial shot of Finn’s speeder attempting to get ‘up stream’ in the Battering Ram canon beam.

At the top of the shot you have the AT-AT’s?

I thought it might be fun to animate the AT-At to the right of the canon and have it’s ‘head’ start to turn in to the left (it’s right) as if it’s notices Finn’s trajectory and so starts to look/position itself in order to be able to take aim at Finn as he approaches…setting up the shootdown? 😬

It’s so minor that really it’s just detail for details sake and as i mentioned above, its likely just overkill as the effort involved probably isnt worth the time, considering its such a tiny detail.

99 percent of people genuinely wont notice it anyway due to the primary action of the shot occurring centre frame and because the size of the ATAT in the shot is so relatively small?

But…i thought it was a fun thing to add, and considering some of the other stuff you’ve pulled off on this project I figured it was at least within your capabilities 😀

Fell free to laugh the suggestion off…but at least its out there for you in case it does interest you?

poppasketti said:

Ha! Glad it’s working!

Stu, I think I want to avoid overdoing it so that by the time it cuts inside the cockpit everything’s calmed down. Adding another flame to Finn’s side (there are already a good deal of sparks) would feel like too much as it transitions to the interior shots. I want it to feel like they just emerged from the last bit of the craziness, and there’s only a few scattered particles left. Thanks for the ideas, though!

Roger, roger boss! 😃

I hear you loud and clear…and it all looks great as it is.

It’s come on such a long way, in such a short period of time.

Infact, V3 as a whole is such a huge step up from V2.

Obviously the core of it still remains, but all the subtle refinements to so many of the little details really make this an overall more polished product.

Plus the various TROS foreshadowing really is the icing on the cake!

Do you think once V3 is rendered and locked that will be it for this project?

I’d obviously love to see more…and more…and more but Im not sure what else you can do to improve it from here?

(Although i did have another tiny idea…but it’s such a minor detail and would be so un-noticeable to 99.9% of viewers that it’s not really worth proposing)

This really is an amazing project so I’d like to thank you for all of your hard work and for sharing it with us.

poppasketti said:

smpearce1981 said:

What about adding one or two faint flame elements into the reflection? As if the shuttle is just passing the last pieces of flaming debris when the shot picks up?

Done! Added some subtle flame and sparks to the beginning of the shuttle shot so you see them pass through the last big bits of the explosion. I even used some material from the cut space Leia scene for some of these elements.

Shuttle Scene
https://vimeo.com/394579555
pw: fanedit

With that, I think I’m pretty close to being locked on V3! If anyone sees any issues on the clips or workprint, please let me know, but I should be proceeding to final render encode pretty soon.

Poppa

I don’t know what you do for a living in the real world but what you do here is nothing short of astounding!

One more flame on Finn’s side of the cockpit a fraction later in the shot?

But if I’m pushing my luck…just know that I’m awe struck, regardless.

I genuinely cannot wait for the full fat version of V3. This one really is special.

Cheers, brother

Stu

I’m deffo not loving the idea of Obi-Wan making an appearance. Vocal or otherwise.

Poppa said it best. The scene is beautiful as it is. The imagery and the score let the audience know everything they need to know here.

It’s a tragic victory born out of the sacrifice of a classic character, who’s arc has finally come full circle

I can understand the sentiment of his mentor/father figure making contact in that moment to usher Luke into the afterlife, but it’s just not needed. The emotion of the moment is conveyed perfectly without anything else required?

Also in a more general sense (and not specifically relating to this scene) I think ‘we’ have to be really careful in recycling old lines of dialogue?

If you start implementing that as a solution too often or deploying it where it’s not absolutely needed to overcome a bigger issue, it only draws attention to itself and can pull you out of the experience where it just appears cheap and/or amateur?

The instances that I can remember where that technique has been applied, the most effective examples are where the editor has re-purposed words or sections of original dialogue and made something entirely new out of it?

poppasketti said:

I played with the shuttle scene a little more tonight. The particles were a little too similar, so I added a few of the flickery sharp particles that better match the ship explosion (still very subtle). Also tweaked the color slightly, and added a tiny bit of vibration to the beginning of the first shuttle shot.

Shuttle Deleted Scene
https://vimeo.com/394579555
pw: fanedit

I love the vibration, anything to lower the locked down/static zoom of the original is great! Have you tried adding more/pushing it further?

I’m not suggesting it needs it, it already looks great, but I’d be interested to see a more ‘turbulent’ version just to have the comparison?

With regard to the particles, I’ve got AWFUL lighting ATM, the sun is glaring right onto my monitor so I just can’t see the finer details to make any sort of observation and hence offer any insight one way or another.

Since you are still playing with the shot, I did have a thought the other day, which I elected to not share because I don’t want to keep coming at you with suggestions…BUT since you are still tinkering:-

What about adding one or two faint flame elements into the reflection? As if the shuttle is just passing the last pieces of flaming debris when the shot picks up?

My thoughts were that you’d just see the faint reflection of a flame or two passing out of the shot and that would coincide with Finn seemingly throttling back on the controls? these subtle visual cues and elements would combine to indicate them now being clear of the destruction and hence Finn ‘backs it off’?

I thought it might add just a bit of extra 'seasoning’to it all?

Definitely keep it subtle, but I think having the colour of a few faint fire elements passing in the reflection would just add to the overall dynamics of the shot and further reduce it from looking so static?

Don’t get me wrong, after everything you have already done here, the shot doesn’t NEED it, especially as the shot before does show the shuttle getting clear and so ultimately, the effort to implement this might not even be worth it, but it was just an idea on what else could be added?

Poppa,

Re: The shuttle scene and my comments last week.

Having seen your revised version with the reflections and debris/particles I’m pleased to come forward and tell you:

I WAS WRONG

The extra work you have done has really eased the scene into the edit and now it fits so much nicer without drawing attention to itself. Amazing!

I keep saying it, but I LOVE this project and all of the work you are doing 😃