smpearce1981

Hi Spence,

So I have to confess I’m not all the way through this yet so, I should perhaps hold off on any my overall thoughts until i can offer a full ‘review’

Anyhow, I’d just like to say that technically this is flawless and so please know that Im aware any/most/all critique’s on your work are most likely you doing the best job you can whilst trying to work within the limits and flaws of the source material.

Im also very aware that I’m mostly bringing up ‘problems’ but not offering much in the way of solutions, so it’s not like I’m suggesting I could do better?!?

This is merely me querying whether there might be more ways to skin the cat??

Iv tried to view this as a standalone movie, bringing as little of my fandom and franchise knowledge to this as possible, as if I was a first time uninitiated viewer.

Anyhow, as far as I’ve watched here are some thoughts.

The opening and the arrival of the inquisitors?

Im not sure this is the ‘way in’ to the story.

Without an opening crawl or the ‘previously on star wars’ montage, the inquisitors immediate arrival on tatooine, and hunting a nameless seems a strange/unengaging jumping off point for the story?

As i watched a bit more, I wondered if starting on Alderaan might be a better way in. Meet/introduce Leia until she gets kidnapped.

The way into this story is the abduction of a young girl… which that is what leads us to introducing our hero, Obi-wan, who after we see his down on his luck existence, receives his call to action?

Once Bail has given him the call asking for help, perhaps that prompts the arrival of the inquisitors?

That was my first thoughts?

I watched further and definitely spotted some scenes that might be better re-ordered in the edit, as I think my primary observations were that if we weren’t all comparing these edits to the source material (and what I will say is that this is already 100 percent better!) would it still hold up as a standalone movie, without our previous knowledge filling in gaps in the narrative and character motivations?

As I said above, I fully acknowledge that it’s tough to overcome the limitations of the source material, especially since that was shot and edited to work as a tv series, but I do still wonder whether we can push this further and be braver with the structure.

Something I will say about all of these Obi-wan edits is that I think the way through this is to organically find the tighter story and better characters/their motivations from almost a stage 1 rewrite, using what we have to work with, rather than trying to targetedly fix or remove the pieces we didnt like within the existing structure?

What’s the story, who are our players, and how do we get them from A to B as logically, efficiently and effectively as possible.

As above, these points aren’t specifically aimed at you or your edit, as what I have seen here has been amazing from a technical standpoint, I just wonder if we can do more to find a better story structure in amongst it all?

More to follow as I watch more….if you want it, that is?

Thanks so much for all of your hard work!!

I love your duel editing, and despite advocating to keep Reva, I think I am glad you have decided to be brave enough to cut all of her Ep6 inclusion away.

Anyhow, here’s a knitpick:

IMO the only part of the duel footage that needs a change is the establishing shot at 1:01 -

(https://streamable.com/ebtorm)

As we no longer cut away, we no longer need an establishing shot.

I couldn’t help but feel that the slow panning, dark, wide shot is quite jarring especially when it’s so massively juxtaposed against the up-close, lightsaber lit, intimacy of the duel in peak flow as obi-wan lunges in the shot immediately before?

I think the duel would massively benefit from just cutting into another shot from the main choreography to keep the pace up.

I just don’t think that the overall environment is dramatic or ‘interesting’ enough that you would miss an unnecessary ‘eye candy’ shot that now would only exist to depict a sense of scale?

If the location had been really visually interesting or it’s features relevant to the progression of the battle, maybe it could be justified but such as it is, with no cutting back and forth between plot points/locations, it’s inclusion is now just superfluous and quite disruptive to the flow of the duel?

Anyhow, that was my only observation/feedback from your amazing work here. 😃

I’m personally in favour of keeping Reva, is she SW’s best character? Absolutely not, but her ark and how Obi-Wan’s own ark within the series is affirmed within their dialogue after the fight on the Lars farm IS important?

Also, with some additional emphasis within the editing, I think what Darth Raditz said above, justifies Obi-Wan once again leaving Vader alive:

‘If he senses Reva attacking Owen’s farm, at least there’s a ticking clock that Obi-Wan has to beat & can’t waste time on Vader’

Prior to reading that, I would have leant into trying to cut around the two events intercutting as they did, as Obi-Wan making his way from wherever he was and back to Tatooine within minutes was too much of a plot contrivance (god kows there’s been far to much of that in this series??) so although that’s still an issue, it seems less of a job to emphasise the reason why Obi-Wan’s would need to abandon Vader (again) for the sake of a bigger threat, than it would be to separate out the intertwined plot threads, such as they are?

Ergo, keep Reva?

Hi Smudger!

I’d love to check this out please (the full fat 30gb version 😃) in readiness for what you eventually do with Season 2.

Many many thanks in advance.

If ever there was a case to be made for crowdfunding, Hal’s computer may be it? 😃

Hi Hal

The insertion of the new shot(s) is great!

However (this critisism is not aimed at you or the edit) the more I watch the ‘Wedge’ shot, the more it annoys me!

On first viewing it was nice to see a familiar face…but as time has gone on his line ‘nice flying Lando’ really starts to irritate…

What is ‘nice flying’ exactly? A few rolls of the Falcon on it’s horizontal axis…in wide open space?

C’mon…we’ve seen that ship impressively navigate through some seriously tight spaces in it’s time, so I’m not sure a basic roll is anything worth gushing over (especially from someone like Wedge who just so happens to be a seasoned fighter pilot?)

The more I watch it, the more I think it makes Wedge look like he’s trying too hard and is just sucking up to the bigger boys in the hope he starts getting invited out more 😂

‘Nice flying, Lando’

‘I love what you’ve done with your hair, Lando’

‘Nice shirt, Lando’

As I say, it’s not a problem with your edit! I’m not even suggesting you remove it as it wouldn’t be worth the work trying to fill the gap and re-sync everything. I just thought I’d share the observation 😃

smudger9 said:

If anyone is having issues with downloading the files from the dlc file, I have now uploaded a single file for the 1080 version. PM me if you need it.

Hi Smudger

I’d be really grateful for the link to this please? This edit sounds great so I’d love to check it out.

Many thanks

Watching the Ben vs KOR,

I can’t help but feel the ‘it’s over, Ben’ line is totally off.

I think we missed a trick not having one (or all) screaming ‘Traitor!!!’

Mirroring Kylo himself (to Finn) at the end of TFA.

Maybe pick a lead KOR shout it, in place of the ‘it’s over, Ben’ then have the others reciting it as an intimidating battle chant as they close in.

I’m not trying to undermine the work that has gone into the sound mixing. That in itself is great.

But the line???..

I find it hard to believe they would ever refer to him as Ben.

It’s to familiar and warm, and even if we were to believe that they were close enough to be on first name terms, are we to believe that once Ben/Kylo had abandoned his family to align with Snoke he’d be introducing himself and maintaining his old name in their company?

In my mind, when Ben joined the bad guys he abandoned that part of his identity completely and he took up the mantle of Kylo.

So, I think the two best options would be to either call him traitor as an insult and to justify their turning on him, or at least be less familiar and refer to him as ‘Solo’, since using a surname is a less warm means of addressing someone.

Anyhow, that’s just my two cents worth.

Chase Adams said:

smpearce1981 said:

To his disbelief it powered up immediately. And it had a hyperdrive! What was this? Some sort of prototype? What were the odds!

Oh my god… Is that from the novelisation? Jesus Christ.

Thanks man, but nope.

I just threw it together when thinking about how to explain/rationalise the problem earlier.

Hal 9000 said:

Well, Anjohan, I’ll welcome your thoughts once you see the whole thing! Thanks for posting.

And, smpearce1981, your post is entirely reasonable and correct. The TIE thing doesn’t bother me per se, but it was an opportunity to make a change that steered clear of what feels like an incongruity. Otherwise we’d never make changes like this and always defer to and accept official explanations.

Or we could all pretend someone had bothered to write the following scene for the actual movie:-

Ben searched the broken hanger for a ship. Any ship. All he needed was to get off the planet. He’d worry about how he got to Exegol later.

He tried two ships. First an old shuttle, but it’s power core was smashed beyond repair. Second an old TIE. To his disbelief it powered up immediately. And it had a hyperdrive! What was this? Some sort of prototype? What were the odds!

Ben didn’t waste any time questioning it. He’d learnt that from his father.

He attributed it to the will of the force and moved on, he didn’t need distractions right now. He needed to get back in the fight. He hit the controls and the TIE departed the twisted hanger.

As he entered the atmosphere, he laid in the co-ordinates for Exegol.

‘I’m coming Rey’ he said to himself as he waited for the navi-computer to finish plotting it’s course.

The lights signalled. He was ready. But for a split second before he hit the jump, he paused and once again heard the words of his old man echo through his subconscious. ‘Punch it!’

Ben’s caught his lips moving in synchronisation with the memory. As the star field began to wrap itself around the ship, he smiled. He suddenly felt a lot like his old self…

Fade out.

Hal 9000 said:

Not when it’s buried in the wreckage of the second Death Star.

I’m not deliberately knit-picking, infact what I’m about to say is not supposed to be contentious, but offering a perspective that hopefully allows more freedom to explore fun/interesting ideas without being beholden to imaginary (or ‘in universe’) science.

I totally respect your point about 40 years of technological development not applying to an OT era vehicle that has laid in decay, without modification for all of those 40 years.

My counter point is this:-

If the justification for dismissing TIE hyperspace capability is solely based on the line from ANH, I’d grant the concept a little more leeway.

1. if it’s fair to consider that the X-wing is the ‘good guy’ equivalent of the TIE in approx size and spec (I would argue it is, considering it it’s the primary alliance/resistance fighter depicted across the series and the fact there is a game titled ‘X-wing vs TIE fighter’ - alluding to parity), then the X-wing should similarly not be light speed capable either

…which follows since we never saw the X-Wing use a hyperspace drive in ANH, so at the time the line was uttered the X-wing seemed equally beholden to the same principle within the context of that movie.

(Rogue One DID later depict that they are/were hyperspace capable during the ANH timeframe but is it possible that was a retcon or an oversight based on ROTJ capability??? We’ll probably never know, if you consider that back in 1977 SW lore was non-existent, no bible, no visual dictionary’s, no ‘science of SW’ books.

Hence, anything and everything written or explored since those original script pages were written is in addition (or even amendment) to the original intentions.

My point is, I’m sure none of the SW creators involved have lost a shred of sleep over such minor details if it served the story or the visuals …and so we probably shouldn’t either)

Anyhow, I digress.

What we definitely do know is that by ROTJ (approx 6 years in universe time) the X-wing was definitively shown to have hyperspace capability.

That can be attributed to in-universe technological development, the creative whims of GL, improved visual effects, a higher budget and the audience’s demand for greater spectacle…or ALL of the above?!

2. Since the TROS TIE being referred to here is a defunct unit from within the DS2, who knows what the empire was working on in there?

Maybe it was a prototype? Or maybe even generic TIE’s were hyperspace capable by this point in order to match the capabilities of the enemy equivalent.

If you look across real history especially involving combat and conflict, innovation and development moves forward at hugely more advanced rate because it’s driven by the necessity to gain an advantage over your adversary’s.

WW2 at the start of the conflict it was prop planes, by the end it was jets! 6 years. Real world.

It’s not unreasonable to assume that proportionate/parallel developments in fighter propulsion would occur in the SW universe too?

3. As such, just because we never saw a TIE use hyperspace either in or by ROTJ doesn’t mean they hadn’t been made capable? The movies were always told from the heroes perspective and so we never explored or followed the Empire to depict their journey to and from battle in the same way we did with the rebel fleet during those assaults.

All we know is that the movies never depicted an instance where a TIE entered or exited hyperspace…for whatever reason…but that doesn’t conclusively mean that they couldn’t - at least by the time the battle of Endor took place?

Anyhow, there’s nothing (that I’m aware of) that settles it either way and that means you can really ‘choose your own adventure’ on the matter?

To bring this full circle, my point is this:-

The SW universe has ALWAYS played fast and loose with it’s science.

It’s not old school Star Trek.

It’s always been science fantasy over science fiction, and is arguably a lot better for not letting the science dictate the fun.

So, to ensure that I’m making it very clear that I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’ll end on this:-

On the subject of ‘the creative whims of the creator’ this is YOUR edit. If you don’t want or are not interested in TIE’s being hyperspace capable, that’s your choice and your vision. And that’s cool. You don’t need to justify it any more than that.

BUT don’t squander your time and energy on a throwaway line from 40+ years ago or let it dictate or limit your creative options.

At this point in the SW franchise we’ve already seen that the creative teams involved across the movies themselves are not beholden to much (ESPECIALLY the tech!), hence why we’ve seen changes, retcons and the in-universe introduction and reliance on ‘a certain point of view’.

Unpopular opinion here:-

I’ve just watched Hal’s v3 workprint.

I really feel that the absence of the much hated ‘light speed skipping’ sequence slightly compromises the scene.

I know Hal’s reasons, I know a lot of people are wrapped up in the ‘tech/science’ of it…but I think it’s absence is jarring. The falcon/spy scene now just ends much too abruptly and lacks a crescendo…

Hal have you tried putting it back in? I’m not saying you have to like it…but have you tried it to get a feel in how it works from a pacing perspective?

DarthYcey said:

idir_hh said:

“I have died before… Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you as all the Sith live in ME(face reveal).”

I almost used that in my mockup. I like ‘I have died before’ and hated to lose it. Honestly, saving ‘You want to kill me…that is what I want’ until the end would provide more information for Rey. It could be followed by him saying she’ll be empress and they will be one…that would provide all the context needed I think for the end to justify her not killing him right away, yet still provide all the setup at the beginning of the movie with the Kylo talk. Good idea!

JEDIT: Updated clips implementing idir_hh’s idea:

https://vimeo.com/424542591
fanedit

https://vimeo.com/424542665
fanedit

I just watched these and as edits they are both pretty good!

(The first has a notable shift in the general ambiance and/or reverb where the new/re-shuffles lines have been inserted)

However also on the first clip there’s a shift in the narrative that comes out of left field and doesn’t make sense in this context.

Palpatine:-

Kill me and my spirit will pass into you as all the sith live in me.

Kylo:-

What could YOU give ME?

I don’t see the connection in the two strands of conversation?

Ie

Person one:-

Where is the airport?

Person two:-

Orange?

Alternatively if there is a connection it’s this:

Palpatine is offering a deal along the lines of:-

Palpatine:-

‘Kill me so I can get out of this wretched body, I’ll possess you but in so doing I will allow you to share the power of the Sith’

Kylo:-

What do I get out of this??

Palpatine:-

Everyth…hold on, I just told you???

So, it makes Kylo seem a bit dim?

In my opinion the new Palpatine dialogue is fine in itself but the link to Kylo’s line is just not there or worse underserves his character?

In my opinion I think it would be better to keep Rey’s lightning ‘standard’ blue.

I think expanding the visual language of these movies is a tough sell at this point?

I understand the reasoning behind wanting to distance Rey from Palpatine but I think changing the colour of force generated lightning is just unnecessary?

Within canon (the movies) ‘blue’ lightning has been pretty firmly established as a dark side power.

I’ve never once gone down the rabbit hole and wondered if it’s a Palpatine (and his minions/trainee) based trait exclusively, I always just took it to be a power sourced from the dark side of the force.

In Rey’s case, I never made the direct association that when she accidentally manifested the power that it was due to her biological lineage?

I just assumed that she was so caught up in anger and desperation that her emotional instability, (alongside her powerful but still unharnessed force sensitivity) in that moment, she over pushed herself and she accidentally leaned into the power of the dark side and the lightning manifested itself.

She wasn’t serene or at peace. She was emotionally compromised and it got the better of her.

The blue colour will never require any further explanation than what is already visually depicted across the movies. We’ve seen two bad guys use it after all.

But yellow? I am immediately asking why it would be yellow? What does it mean?

Is there light and dark side lightning?

Do the users from either side employ it differently?

In this case/instance (blowing up a transport) it’s still just as deadly/destructive. It’s not like it manifested and good came of it?

If they had used yellow lightning to give a visual cue for the force healing (like a force defibrillator 😃), there would be some logic to visually depict the differences.

One drains life force, the other gives it. But to use it in this context opens up more questions than it solves?

Blue = Rey used the dark side power to gain the upper hand on Kylo.

(Perhaps accidentally - but none the less she gave in to her anger and it got Chewie ‘killed’)

Now she fears her power and what may become of her at a point in the movie when she is most vulnerable and emotionally unstable and she has the evidence to support just how destructive she could become.

More importantly the lesson she eventually takes from this is just how easy it is to fall.

After stabbing Kylo she acknowledges that she’s too powerful, but too emotionally weak to handle that power…which makes her a liability to her friends and so she takes herself out of play by going into exile.

There she gets a pep talk from her master and comes back with a renewed sense of purpose and is able to keep her head during the confrontation with Palpatine…in so doing and without resorting to tapping into the dark side, she obtains the strength of all the Jedi that preceded her.

True power. Earned.

Yellow = What happened? This is new? What is this? What does it mean?

Oh. Nothing it’s just normal force lightning because the plot won’t revisit this again.

I suppose you could still apply all of the logic above, but only with an additional (and wholly unnecessary) ‘why?’

But that ‘Why’ can only lead to a dead end, because it’s a piece of visual narrative that’s been added in but will never be explained?

To me it’s totally overthinking something that doesn’t need to be?

‘Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should’?

DominicCobb said:

Feedback is good. I don’t think it’s quite there yet either but you can see how it’s shaping up. It’s a tricky thing and I’m trying to identify why it feels off to me too. Here’s my thoughts.

• It doesn’t necessarily make sense, but I think after Lando’s line you should let the music have it’s moment before the chatter starts to pick up when the Star Wars theme has fully kicked in.
• Either cut the chatter when Poe’s talking, or make it really soft and indistinguishable
• Some of the call ins are too clear and need more distortion
• Maybe a bit too much overlapping on the call ins?
• The first "For Skywalker"s are nice but I think the second round is really pushing it. Tough because I know so many people are involved on that one and this was the real focus here but it just seems a bit repetitious for so many people to be saying that exact phrase.
• I almost wonder if it’d be better if it was two "For Skywalker"s, then someone saying “Skywalker lives!” and then for the next one people said something else (“For Leia”? “For the Republic”? “For Kijimi”? something like that) or just nothing at all.

Hi Dom!

I think you might be on to something with the ‘For Leia’ idea! Even above ‘For Skywalker’

Thematically it’s actually more relevant to THIS movie than Skywalker.

I know, I know the title is ‘TROS’ and Rey takes the name but hear me out.

Leia is/was supposed to be the beating heart of Ep9

At the end of ‘TLJ’ she had failed to rally the galaxy behind her and it took Luke to return to turn the tide (allow the resistance to escape so that they could live to fight another day)

However her actions in this movie see her nurture Rey and redeem Ben.

I think it’s appropriate that what rallies the free people of the galaxy is the news of her death.

They fight to honour her and what she stood for (just as Han says)

They may have let her down in life, but they won’t in death.

Therefore I think the Radio chants could be used to bring that point home in a way that was missed and/or overlooked in the original?

The Skywalker name isn’t really a ‘thing’ in this movie until the end, but Leia’s relationships and legacy is, so I think it would be a good idea to work on emphasising that wherever we can.

Awww shucks.

I REALLY, truly, genuinely hate to be the sole voice of negativity ESPECIALLY considering this idea is born out of contributions from the community…but something is off here.

Maybe it’s too much audio clutter?

But all I’m hearing is lots of random voices coming out of the ether

I know I’m going to be in the minority (or even alone) here but the mixing doesn’t convey ‘radio
chatter’ and so these voices seem like they are randomly placed and out of context.

From a real world perspective this amount of ‘check-in’s’ all piled on top of each other would even defy the objective as it wouldn’t serve the purpose of being accounted for as your tag/handle/call sign/identifier would get lost in the traffic

Just so I’m not being negative without bringing anything to the table, I suggest maybe cutting down on the amount of call in’s and keeping them only audible for the in cockpit shots so that they remain in context? Maybe just pick your favs/best executed?

I’m truly sorry to be ‘that guy’ Hal. It’s a solid idea through and through, but I’m not sure about the implementation.

I’m sure it can work, but in my own opinion I think it might need to be approached from a slightly less overt angle?

Sorry guys. Please don’t hurt me 😬

Poppa, your shuttle shot is AMAZING! (as always)

I’ve got no observations on how to ‘improve it’ from a look/integration perspective.

My only suggestion is a non-critical ‘in-story’ mod/detail.

How challenging would it be to add rust/damage’missing panel skin?

Nothing drastic that would give the appearance of it not being flight worthy, but just some detailing to indicate it’s suffered a few knocks from the DS explosion and planetary crash and then 30years worth of abandonment in less than ideal conditions.

As above, it’s completely non-essential, it’s just detail that may not be worth the effort…but that’s the only thing I can think to suggest to further sell the idea?

DZ-330 said:

Respects to: idir_hh, poppasketti, Dominic_Cobb

Restructure 2.0

Putting it all together
https://vimeo.com/420424145
PW: fanedit

VERY VERY GOOD, bud!

It all works

…in the theme of ideas:

Has anyone considered the viability of this?

Do away with ‘Mustafar’ (bear with me)…but keep the slaughter sequence?

Repurpose it.

Start the movie with Kylo dropping out of HS . Landing on EXAGOL!..

There’s your establishing sequence! Then repurpose the slaughter on Mustafar (via colour correction) to have Kylo killing the cultists in order to get to/into Palpatine’s lair? (Instead of it being to find the way finder)

Keep it all, but make two sequences across two planets, just one???

Hi guys.

I’m just going over ideas and I’ve stumbled on one but as yet I have no idea how to implement or even if it can be (I strongly suspect the latter)

Anyhow, I wondered if there was a way to actually intercut Rey’s training in the forest with Kylo’s slaughter on Mustafar.

Have the visuals juxtapose each other.

Rey trains against a remote in a lush green forest whilst Kylo slaughters in a burnt out forest.

A light and a dark parallel of each other.

I wondered if it might just help bulk out the Mustafar sequence sufficiently.

Where I’m struggling is I’m trying g to work out how we adequately introduce each of the characters in their own settings to set the sequence in motion.

As I said, it’s nothing more than just an idea/concept atm I have no idea if/how it could be implemented yet…but I thought I’d put it out there incase it lights a spark with someone who might be able to run with it properly?

Anyhow…

idir_hh said:

smpearce1981 said:

Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

I was thinking the same.

A wish list for ‘what might have been’ is distinctly different from creatively working with what we actually have?

As someone with ZERO technical prowess, who am I to measure what the talented folk here can actually pull off, but hearing some of the suggestions for such monumental changes does make me question what some think can be achieved with the resources available?

I love the creative flair/imagination being demonstrated…but is it realistically attainable within the community?

Tbh with the talent in these threads, everything is realistically attainable.

And I certainly wouldn’t bet against that either, my friend 😃

Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

I was thinking the same.

A wish list for ‘what might have been’ is distinctly different from creatively working with what we actually have?

As someone with ZERO technical prowess, who am I to measure what the talented folk here can actually pull off, but hearing some of the suggestions for such monumental changes does make me question what some think can be achieved with the resources available?

I love the creative flair/imagination being demonstrated…but is it realistically attainable within the community?

DZ-330 said:

Here is a rough markup of my restructure idea, audio and video needs work but I don’t think this is anything that the amazing team of editors here cannot accomplish. I do think the first shot of the Falcon flying by can be cleaned up a lot (looking at you @poppasketti haha). But overall, I feel like this structure allows for a better crawl on the state of the galaxy, not as fast of pacing at the start, and allows for the Mustafar scene to stay in. I wouldn’t also mind switching up Rey’s vision to eliminate Kylo, but that allows him to communicate with the Vader mask before the Mustafar and Palpatine scenes. Let me know your thoughts on this!

Link
PW: fanedit

Hey man!

So we’ll done for trying something different!

I quite like the new opener. Straight to the heroes and a fun chase sequence.

It’s after that it all gets a bit muddier…and through no fault of yours! Just the overall flow and edit of the source material.

My primary issue is that there’s no introduction/re-establishing of Kylo in this version.

He is just intercut with Rey.

There’s no geography and no context for him like this and therefore no motive for him to next be seen fighting on Mustafar.

I do agree with you, this movie is so over edited in it’s original form that it’s really hard to cut around it’s failings and massage it into something more effective than what it already is.

I still think the strongest counter edit lies in JonH’s contribution where Mustafar has been cut altogether and we jump straight into Kylo arriving at Exogol in his TIE.

It might rob us of the cool lightsaber slaughter, but otherwise it’s by far the tidiest launch point for the movie.

stevepaynter said:

Man, hard too keep up on the discussion, but I’m with Dominic on this on. It would be a damn shame to lose that musical score when Kylo is flying through the Nebula. I think it’s need to be established that Exogel is completely hidden planet early on and the Wayfinder needs to show the audience how Kylo found it.

Here’s an excerpt from a hypothetical piece of crawl to compensate:-

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader KYLO REN journeys to the hidden Sith homeworld, EXOGOL using an ancient artifact that once belonged to his grandfather DARTH VADER, as he searches for an emergent presence in the force that whispers of forging a dark alliance…

Doesn’t have to verbatim, but you get the jist?

poppasketti said:

jonh said:

I personally still think that the movie should start with this clip. And completely erase mustafar. (Which doesn’t seem to mustafar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4k12QPAh_c

Good call, jonh! Here’s a quick mockup of that idea:
TROS - Alt Opening without Mustafar
pw: fanedit

Yeah, I agree. I think of the issues the Mustafar scene has, the simple one I remember raised here is that it was unusual for a Star Wars opening to smash-cut from space to a planet surface. Usually there’s a couple establishing flybys. It’s one of the many pacing issues, and a little scene buffer could help.

Personally, I’m indifferent to Mustafar. Kewlfish, Chase Adams and others have done a good job mining options for this. I do think the battlefront footage, while fun, feels like a lot of extra outside material. If we do add 1-2 establishing shots to this scene, I think they should be simple shots that match well with the Kylo stuff.

I couldn’t agree more with Jonh and Poppa here.

It’s just cleaner this way.

Mustafar as it is is just visual filler.

It’s action for action’s sake.

Maybe once upon a time there was a meaningful scene here but all that remains is a cool fight scene for Kylo…which although ‘cool’ brings nothing.

The Sith way finder is nothing more than a prop. There’s no exposition, no lore…

The movie would be so much better starting at this jumping off (or in) point.

Let the crawl bring you up to speed and let this be the opening.

It’s immediately mysterious, dark and Intriguing.

And the quiet of space interrupted by kylo dropping out of hyperspace is a great opener. You don’t need the rollercoaster through the nebula to sell it. It’s all just excess.

It’s so much better to keep it clean and functional. This new opener is exactly that.

Mustafar and the nebula might be cool and/or pretty, but I don’t think they bring enough to the table to justify themselves on any other basis other than that…and certainly not narratively speaking?