skyjedi2005

I could not disagree more on the hatred leveled at Return of the Jedi.

It was the last star wars film made with feeling, the last one with any magic to it.  The last one made without shitty lame brain 90% cgi, and the last one to be edited by Marcia Lucas.

It might not be that great as a stand alone but as a third film that is supposed to tie up a series i think it works rather well.  Despite the now continuous fanboy backlash against the ewoks and the them having a second death star.

I still wonder if hatred of jedi is popular because it was started by Kevin Smith and now everyone just parrots whatever he or his films had to say.

Leia being the sister never bothered me in fact that is one of the points i like, just like vader being luke's father.  I also like that han was not just killed off to make it more edgy, which is a lame point of mordernism making everything dark and sinister.

Lumping it in with the phantom menace or its sequels you can do based on your own opinion, in my own that is crazy. 

George was not a cynic when he made return of the jedi.  Jedi while imperfect shows a lot of heart.

To me star wars would be a perfect 6 film saga if lucas only followed the original plan for the prequels.  With the only change necessary of having Vader and Anakin One and the same and not separate characters.

He could have done a different sequel trilogy than original intended as well with the way jedi was filmed.

Any episode 7 would start out with Luke as a Jedi master rebuilding the order, Leia and Han Married.  And the rebels set up the new republic while fighting the imperial remnant.  With the possibility of sith being out there and still dangerous or that anyone Luke took on as a student might go to the dark side.

Basically all the points covered by the Zahn trilogy.  Because someone else did it already even though not Lucas official canon, he feels like he can be lazy and not do those stories because someone else has.

Or perhaps the time passed long ago in the 1980's.  It could also be argued Lucas would not do those movies because fans would claim he was just copying Timothy Zahn.

I don't know if i agree with that Kingdom of Heaven is one of the worst movies ever made.

Though i do like Legend and Blade Runner.  Though both of those films were considered somewhat of a disaster when originally released.

Gladiator and Alien are also good films imho.

To me and it is my own opinion KOH is as bad as alexander and troy.

Scott is another director who does not know to leave well enough alone.  I mean did we really need 5 versions of blade runner?

The only positive i can see is he allowed good quality copies of the theatrical cuts in anamorphic and blu ray.

Though directors recutting their films constantly i find almost as annoying as fanedits, and most often they are not necessary one little bit.

I say it is bullshit and garbage looking for that one pefect "original vision".  The film as released was the film not some overzealous director returning to their works on home video and changing them just because they can.

Scott most assuredly does not know best especially when it comes to the works of Phyliip K Dick.  Deckard is not supposed to be a replicant.  The character in the novel it is based on is not.  The novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

He also put out a special edition of Alien much like Spielbergs releasing an inferior re-release of E.T., this version sucked editoriially and in the changes made to the audio effects and soundtrack.

And the Directors longer cut of legend on dvd with the original intended ending is absolutely awful, i actually prefer some of the studio imposed changes.

In My Own opinion the original scripted ended was just plain retarded.

Any Terminator movie that made John Connor a terminator just plain ruins the fist 2 by James Cameron and was just written probably as a what the fuck kind of ending.

That ending to me is incredibly lame.  About as lame as Dorothy waking up in a bed in Kansas from a bumped head and finds out that her uncles were really the sidekicks in her mind's adventure and it was only a dream.

To me that Wizard of OZ ending it one of the worst ever.  Especially since Baum took incredile pains in creating a secondary universe.

Instead of a what the fuck ending that works incredibly well like making Vader Luke's father in the empire strikes back.

I have a question regarding the casting when was kyle reese supposed to be Russian?  I don't want to come off as incredibly racist but is not the actor in real life russian or at least has a Russian name.  So perfect for Checkov not so perfect for Michael Biehn who as far as i know was not Russian.

I actually like the finished terminator salvation versus the original script.  But it is a piece of shit when compared against the first two films. It is almost like the star wars prequels in that way.

The critics who loved T1,T2, Or t3 hated this film.  Even those who apparently liked sarah connor chronicles.

I love T2 that was the best terminator film and was a perfect movie to watch on the big screen.  The future war sequence though short made me a fan of the film almost instantly.  As a kid i never really liked the first film but T2 made me a huge fan of the series.  Which brought me back into appreciation of the first film.

Kind of like how i was first introduced to the Alien series through the film Aliens and i have always thought the second film superior, though i now like the first a huge amount too because i have become a huge fan of Ridley Scott as well.

You cannot please everybody on all counts though.  I loved Casino Royale and hated quantum of solace, loved batman begins and hated the dark knight.

Though those 2 sequels were made up and not based on an existing story.  The bond people made up the sequel which has almost nothing to do with the fleming novel.  And Nolan made up the dark knight, whereas the first film was a clever filmed version of Batman Year one by Frank Miller.

I also hate films that get up on a liberal soap box and play politics when i want to be entertained. It takes me out of the movie.  Some films are based on things intended to be that way like watchman, and i would not alter them to fit my own views. 

But things like batman or star wars or indiana jones having out of place politics bullshit makes me incredibly irate.  I would not want right wing propaganda in films any more than liberal bullshit.

You know what i am happy that george bush is out of the white house so movies can go back to just being movies again.  For a while there every film made was an anti christian anti republican diatribe.  I want to be entertained, not preached to in the cinema. Perhaps some of these writers and directors are in the wrong business and should be politicians. Though the idea of Steven Spielberg or George Lucas as polticians is simply terrorfying.

C3PX said:

Bingowings said:

Batman & Robin, oh my giddy aunt.

The only film I felt genuinely embarrised to be caught seeing was Caravan Of Courage (if only I had watched the thing drunk) but that's really a prequel I guess.

...

Battle For The Planet Of The Apes is also a sorry mess.

I'll thrown in my giddy aunt to for Batman & Robin. That is a movie I felt embarrassed to be caught seeing.

Caravan of Courage (which I am only pretty sure is another GL name retcon, as I owned the VHS at one point and remember it only being called Ewoks Adventure or something like that), is something I actually never felt was that awful. It is clearly made for children, and it is made for TV (only we Americans like to market our made for TV crap as cinema quality work in your country, Bingo. Kind of like your neighbor sending their kid over to bring you their leftovers in a shoebox, because they think you are poor. I'd protest if I were you. I don't suppose my country men are still that shameless, are they?). I always found it a really cool little fantasy style story told in the SW universe. Always reminded me of The Hobbit a great deal, not so much in story (though there are elements) but in style. Again, no fancy work of art, but as far as made for TV kids movies go, I find it pretty fair. Honestly, I'd much rather watch it and its sequel than any of the prequels.

And as much as I loved the Conquest for the Planet of the Apes (not saying it was good, just that I am personally very fond of it), Battle for the Planet of the Apes was a rather disappointing follow up.

The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles are something I have always really wanted to get into, but try as I might, have never actually managed to.

The ewok movies had different names because elsewhere in the world they got theatrical showings but not in the good old usa.  Caravan of Courage may have been the european theatrical title?

I think there are different title cards one for ewok adventure and caravan of courage.  I believe they used the high quality film prints for the dvd and not the low qualty vhs masters or broadcast masters they used to air on the disney channel.

Young Indy dvd's edited out old indy from the tv version.  Lucas is notorious for not leaving well enough alone.  But perhaps od indy was removed from canon because of kotcs, i'm scratching my head in confusion as to why they made this change.  Did they cut it for rights reasons like they did not want to pay the old actor royalties or just thought in the end old indy was a bad idea after the fact.  Jar Jar binks in episode 1 was a bad idea after the fact, having hayden in episode II and III was a bad idea after the fact but you don't see either being removed from the dvd's.

Terminator salvation and wolverine can be added to the list of awful sequels, prequels and reboots.

There are also films that are terrible sequels but not terrible films.

Like the new star trek that movie was an awful sequel prequel, or superman returns.

To me the most godawful sequel is one you spend money on.  For me that was Indiana Jones IV.  The worst waste of ten dollars ever.  If i want bad movies i could rent or buy the dvd for plan 9, or watch the mummy movies, but i did not imagine it would end up in a indiana jones film.  Come on bad homages to bad 50's era movies, george sinply does not get the series if he thinks that works for indy.

I still have a contempt and loathing for the prequels of star wars because they rode the coatails of the originals and aimed so low it is pathetic.  As far as i concerned Lucas owes my 40 dollars and an apology, for the disgrace that was the prequels and indiana jones IV.  But it took the 2006 release of the originals as a bonus disc in shitty bootleg laserdisc non anamorphic quality to really set me off as a fan.

Other than the star wars books and comics and every now and again rarely video game, i never buy Lucas products any more.  I will buy the clone wars show on dvd if reasonably priced and complete and in the correct aspect ratio.  I will probably continue to buy the fate of the jedi novels and legacy comics.

But for indiana jones and star wars dvd releases on blu ray or dvd you can count me out on any new cgi tinkering or ruination.

In terms of video game sequels i must say the worst sequels i have ever seen are final fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy VII dirge of cerebrus or the prequel to final fantasy VII.  All awful.  I am actually one of the few who liked advent chidren.

Some would say resident evil 2 was a bad sequel i disagree that would be resident evil III imho.  The worst has to be code veronica.

And non canon or unauthorized butchering of a series like the non Kojima metal gears on the nes.

Bad sequels also includes the jj film mission impossible III.

I cannot believe i wasted my time on that film at all.

There is a dvd out with three of Lucas student films.

 THX 1138:4EB Electronic Labyrinth

A man and his car

and freiheit.

The dvd also has other directors student films.  I can't remember the dvd name off the top of my head.  It was also sponsored by USC School of Cinema.  Not a  surprise.  Without Lucas generous donating where would that school be.

The most genious part of the student version and film version of thx 1138 are the sound design by Walter Murch.

I think the first Lucas film to be shot in widescreen was called Anyone lived in a pretty how town.  I have only seen clips.  The whole thing has not been released.  Neither has his Mckenna's gold tone poem. 

For years it was impossible to find his documentary on the rainpeople until someone posted a fairly good quality copy online.  I have a very bad version which looks like someone played the film and videotaped it off of a screen.

And once George Lucas maker of films gets released as a fan preservation by one of the members of these board there will be less stuff to have to have an impossible time unearthing.

If people are fascinated by Lucas i recommend purchasing a copy of the book the george lucas interviews, and the book skywalking by dale pollock.

There is also a fairly good early article  and short one on Lucas in the book the movie brats.

There is no book that offers an unbiased chronologic view of Lucas filmaking career.  The single book out is an authorized one and therefore suspect of being biased towards modern Lucas in a positive way.  I have that book by Rinzler and despite some nice pictures it is mostly pre digisted information from lucas video interviews and articles and is purely garbage and spin.

I would like a book that traced all Lucas films from his college days to now based on their thematic ideas and interconnecting threads, and also where Lucas fits in in the french new wave of cinema verite and auteur theory of filmaking.  Pure Visual filmaking without story.

I found it somewhat terrorfying the modern lucas school of thought on making movies is taught at all in filmschool, cgi over subtance.  I'm happy there are some schools that actual teach how to handle and shoot real film and not just HD video edited on a computer.

Doctor M said:

I'd love to be able to remove Shinzon as Picard's clone altogether because I found the plot point forced and in plausable, a source of endless annoying exposition, and Shinzon looks nothing like Picard.

(It also doesn't make sense.  If Shinzon was created as a clone to replace Picard on Enterprise, either A) Romulans have the ability to accelerate aging of clones, but failed to use it after going to the trouble of cloning him (?) or B) Can't accelerate the aging of clones, so Shinzon would never be old enough to actually replace Picard.)

It just doesn't work... like most of the movie I suppose.

Can anyone give details or possible locations for attaining the edits that are on FE.com?  I do not have an account there and do not wish to ever open one again.

So another person not down with being in the exclusive circle of FE.com,lol.

I don't have an account either.  I feel the elitism to be quite laughable actually when considered from the aspect of things be done in the spirit of fandom.

I understand the new site is designed to be on the down low though so you have to log in to view fanedits details.  Which really does not stop someone who works for the movie people to infiltrate.  Good luck to boon on that.

There seem to be quite a few people online who post in all caps.  When i see a movie review written that way for instance i don't even bother reading the thing.

Even people on Amazon use that when reviewing books and movies.  Usually if i see they posted a review in all caps i vote the review down,lol.  Especially if it is a review for a dvd or blu ray which is not out yet.

Nothing is more annoying than people reviewing something they don't own.

So does LucasArts actually make their own games anymore?

The last game they made was Force Unleashed and from what i have read they have pretty much gotten rid of everyone but a few people and are no longer doing in house game development.

Their next huge title game The Old Republic is a mmo spinoff of kotor and from Bioware.

I mean they scrapped the next gen indiana jones game only to give us a shitty game like the staff of kings.

As far as i know the last jedi knight game outcast was also developed outside Lucasarts.

I remember when Lucasarts was on the top of the pc gaming world in the mid nineties with rebel assualt 1 and 2, x-wing and tie fighter, dark forces.  I'm sure their were none star wars games but i never played them.

They used to make game with stellar graphics at the time, great gameplay and they along with interplay at the time were doing the CD-ROM interactive movies craze, which origin systems also got in on with a spaceflight sim/shooter wing commander.

Force Unleashed had great cut scenes on the HD next gen platforms, especially on the PS3.

If not for the awesome cutscenes and amazing music score it is just a hack and slash game that gets old rather fast.  Without the gravitas  of god of war. Force Powers ridiculously overdone to one up the prequels a thousand fold on the laughability scale.   Again we came to having sense of disbelief being hung, drawn and quartered rather than being suspended.

I will say the game was damn fun for a few hours.  But it was too easy to complete and too short.  Not worth the delays and wait of 2 to 3 years.

I gave up some time ago hoping for a real KOTOR III or A Star Wars Battlefront 3.  Lucasarts will continue  to put out prequel related garbage like that bad clone wars game which got bad reviews seemingly from everyone.

So to wrap up a long and extra long winded post, it is no suprise luca$harts is not the developer of the new monkey island games.

All the Lucas companies should do the same and have outside talents take over.  Seriously If the prequels had been handed off to someone else they would have been better, even the bad animation clone wars would be better if farmed out to pixar.

Should Lucas just close up shop and just be a visual effects studio for games and movies,lol.

If only all the deleted and trimmed scenes made the DVD release 2 disc set, had their effects finished.

Apparently originally Baird had a much longer cut that made much better sense but Berman hacked away at it til we got the monstrosity we have now.

It is almost like the movie is unsure if its a character peice or an action film.

The Script was okay not the best ever probably needed some additional drafts or maybe a totally different story altogether.

Still the Jungian Archetype of Picard facing his shadow self is interesting, if not as Interesting as Luke facing down Darth Vader in the cave on dagobah.

Picard's choices in life.  The fact he has no children.  The fact that he chose Starfleet when he could have done numerous things.  Picard and Shinzon are the same except Shinzon had a hard life live in dark mines without ever seeing the sun.

Dealing with age, and Death.  Just like Wrath of Khan if not as good or original.  Maybe this film should have ended like the Undiscovered Country.  But instead of A final captain's log you see the refit of the E and the new first officer like in the deleted scenes and you see the enterprise finally heading out on her next voyage, and you see Picard Talk to Riker which was not shot as Captain of the Titan for the movie.

Too bad the novels are expanded universe and not canon because that is the only way you find out the State of things on Romulas after nemesis.  Though Countdown the comics before Spock and Nero end up in the past somehow is,lol.

By the way i'm not entirely sure anymore that Nemesis is the worst Trek movie on multiple views on dvd.  I would have to say It is about even with Star Trek V.   If i had to say which was the worst next generation film it would be generations.

Actually i think all the next gen films are pretty bad.  Even First Contact the best by far has some god awful cringeworthy humor.  The best standout moments are little bits here in there in the flms where the characters are utilized.  The Transition to the big screen really was a failure for the next generation which worked best as a serialized tv format.  The original series somehow adapted itself better to the big screen.  Who knows had the old films been produced by rick berman,lol.

So what happened to the reboot of the first evil dead film?

Does Raimi still have what it takes?

I saw some pretty laughably bad previews for a cheapy horror movie he made recently called drag me to hell.

Spider Man 3 was pretty bad imho, yet he is supposed to be directing part 4 with Tobey as spidey again.

So far they have not been able to get everyone on board though i think Kirsten Dunst does not want to do another one.

His tv show adapting the sword of truth fantasy legend of the seeker was also absolute shit.

He might not be the greatest director ever but i thought the first 2 spider man films were pretty well made.

The third one not a terrible film by a long shot, still it felt disjointed and felt like they were trying to cram way too many plots and villians into a single film.

Well he already did the wizard's duel twice,lol.

Once in Attack of the Clones and again in lord of the rings as Saruman.

Yoda VS DOOKU

Or Gandalf VS SARUMAN

How many Hammer horror fans are out there.

I know Lee from those as well as the actor who Tarkin.

I also Remember Lee as Scaramanga from the man with the golden gun starring Roger Moore as james bond.

And probably the second most famous dracula.  Next to Bela Lugosie.

These days they honorary knight just about anyone, so it is almost meaningless.

Didn't they knight Elton John?

Qui Gon was supposed to introduce the Whills to Yoda and Obi Wan in Revenge of the Sith.  To Teach them how they can retain their physical form as well as their indenitity in the force,  While Qui Gon was just a dissembodied ghost.

I mean it probably was another Lucas idea that got left aside to explain why ben kenobi dissapears in a new hope, and why when qui gon is burned on the pyre in episode one or when he is struck down by maul he remains.  But in Return of the Jedi Vaders suit remains on the pyre but his soul and body are gone.

Lucas basically wanted to retell the "Fall of the Roman Empire" in outer space.  How a democracy becomes an Empire.  While also making reference to hitler and nazi germany.  Hitler was chancellor and given emergency powers, before he assumed ultimate control of the country as dictator.

He also blended the themes of Sophocles Oedipus, The story of faust, and milton's paradise lost.

Also drawing parrelells to modern world events and politics.  I believe there is an applicability there rather than an allegory of the times of george bush JR.

I would not have done the prequels period.  i would have moved the story forward and show Luke After Return of the Jedi.  I would have done a sequel trilogy with at least Mark Hamill if not Ford and Fisher.  But this would have had to be done before they were too old as they are now.

I still Believe if a new movie project went forward at this time Hamill could be the Alec Guiness Type passing on the torch to a new generation of jedi.

But that would mean either incorporating More EU garbage into the main star wars or Lucas creating his own new characters, Like His own Version of whether or not Leia and Han had kids that became jedi and so forth.

ChainsawAsh said:

I'd help you out, but I lost my EditDroid set long ago.

And it shouldn't be terribly difficult, I wouldn't think, but I haven't tried it myself, either.

Sadly i never have gotten rid of my fan preservation discs so much as they have succumbed to laser rot or the dye layer has failed.  The worst of which happens to be my fave disc.  The Dark Jedi Star Wars 1985 CAV laserdisc transfer.  It is terribly ironic too because my laserdisc copy is almost no longer readable in certain sections, and the dvd was my backup.

I also have been doing some digging in my room here and can't seem to be able to find the dark/saga japan special collection.  I wish there were more preservations of those laserdiscs.  DJ at one point was going to center the picture properly and get rid of the annoying japan hardsubs.  He was going to do a letterbox and an anamorphic version.  Not sure what happened i think he said something like it was not worth doing since the gout was released.

I also like the 1997 special editions set captured by dark  jedi and menus by boba feta.  I don't really love the 97 changes but it was a nice set nontheless and impressive.

Anybody who has the editroid set willing to do a trade with me? OR a Blanks and Postage costs deal whatever.

Send me a PM.

I only really want them so i can watch the film with the isolated music track, which i think sounds like a sweet feature for John Williams fans.

Just so You know i own the gout and the laserdiscs, so i hope i'm not breaking any rules.

I also own the music anthology box and the special edition soundtracks.

How hard would it be for example the rip the the isolated score from the editrdroids discs and sync it to the superior quality gout?

I know someone on youtube has put up an isolated score.  But i want the editdroid quality presentation.  I already have the Bonus discs and the editdroid star wars with the mono mix and no isolated score.   I need the other version of a new hope they produced.  I'm not too sure but i think they only did 1 version of empire strikes back and return of the jedi.

I might be considered an improvement if it was not pretending to be the cut shown to audiences in theaters, with a couple added scenes which i find are better left in the movie because they were intended by Lucas back then and excised by the studios control.

If it was a special edition not pretending to be the original american graffiti nowhere does it mention on the dvd case the film has been altered in any way.

This is the kind of dishonesty on the 2004 star wars trilogy set which removed the title special edition and included the original dates from 1977, 1980. and 1983 on the box.

At least with THX 1138 they admited right on the box with big words "george lucas director's cut". And it probably would have cost them nothing to include the original version.  It was cleaned up by lowry before the new effects were put into the film.

To watch the original version it took me years before the advent of ebay to find a vhs copy and its frickin pan and scan.  The laserdisc in the usa is hard to find and considered rare.  And the digital audio issue in japan has burnt in subtitles and from what i have heard the sex scene is either cut or censored.

I also believe and this is my opinion and i hope its not reflected once the HD lucasfilm releases come along, that the entire Lucas film catalog on dvd has had way too much digital noise reduction and degraining done.  THX 1138 and American Graffiti and star wars were each shot on a specific film stock to give them a documentary flavor.  removing the grain destroys that.

Though it is really nothing new because they started the whole DNR crap back in the THX laserdisc program days and only now the resolution is showing how much damage has been done.  The Gout looks indeed sharper on dvd but the dnr is way more apparent then on the softer looking definitive collection laserdisc.  Making the laserdisc preferable, not just for that but for the full pcm audio.

Could you imagine how bad it would look if there was an HD source for the gout in non anamorphic with the fine detail and grain completely removed,lol.

Not a huge surprise that lowry was involved in the fiasco that are the bond remasters, the star wars trilogy. or the recent star trek blu rays.  Seriously whenever i hear they worked on a film i will consider the reviews before buying the dvd to see if the colors and grain structure were compromised.

Somehow they were able to do the indiana jones trilogy right.  Under specific instructions from Steven Spielberg to limit the dnr and grain removal.  These days the digital movie maker Lucas who has tried to kill film is all for the degraining movement.  When he used to be in his college days a respected cameraman who understood film as a chemical process.

Films shot in techniscope are supposed to be grainy.  Its a 16mm anamorphic format that is then blown up to 35mm.  Removing the grain with computers the grain that is supposed to be there versus the dupe grain is a joke of epic proportions.  Just like destroying Gil Taylors cinematographic brilliance on star wars be redoing the colors and limiting the grain.

From screenshots in have seen even Kingdom of the Crystal Skull's blu ray is too clean and almost without grain.  When i saw the film in theaters the cinematographer Kaminski had chosen a very nice grain structure on the movie.  I want the degraining movement on Blu RAY and on DVD to end, just as much as the stupid loudness wars is ruining music.

Also Haskel Wexler's graffiti shooting deserved better than to be stripped off its character by dnr.  Never seen the HD broadcast but the dvd the contrast is set too high and the image is too clean and not filmlike.

ChainsawAsh said:

The GOUT would be the only way for you to experience the pre-1997 versions.

For Star Wars:

In 1981, the words "Episode IV: A NEW HOPE" were added to the title crawl and the words were re-formatted (including the capitalization of "rebel").

In 1997, the "3D monsters on Tatooine" were added, as was the Jabba scene, the Han/Greedo scene was altered to make Greedo fire when he never should have, the end battle was "enhanced" with extra CG shots, a short scene (that was chopped up to fit with the Vader-as-Luke's-father idea) with Biggs was added on the Yavin IV base, and many other, smaller changes were made.

In 2004, additional changes were made, in addition to incredibly fucked-up colors and a horribly "remastered" sound mix that included swapping the left and right surround channels for the music, for no apparent reason.  All in the name of "deliberate creative decisions."

The GOUT uses the 1993 laserdisc audio instead of the theatrical mono or stereo audio, but other than that every change listed above is not present in the GOUT.

For Empire:

In 1997, more footage with the Wampa was inserted, which arguably ruins the suspense of the scene.  Cloud City had CG "enhancements" added, including the addition of windows throughout the city that sometimes mysteriously disappear when ILM forgot they added some.  Darth Vader's trip to his Star Destroyer was spliced in after the duel as well, using outtakes from ROTJ, again arbuably ruining the flow of the scene (and changing Vader's "Bring my shuttle!" line to "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival").

In 2004, Ian McDiarmid, while shooting ROTS, re-shot the Emperor hologram scene (originally Clive Reville's voice and an old woman's mouth with monkey eyes) in his horrid ROTS makeup that doesn't look a thing like his ROTJ makeup.  Lines were added to this scene as well that - arguably - ruin it.  Also, Boba Fett's lines were (again, arguably) horribly re-dubbed by Temuera Morrison (clone troopers/Jango Fett in AOTC/ROTS).

The GOUT includes none of these changes, but again, includes the 1993 laserdisc audio.

For Jedi:

In 1997, the Jabba's palace musical number Lapti Nek was replaced with Jedi Rocks, which sounds (arguably) awful, and Sy Snootles (singer) was replaced with a CG model.  Other new CG creatures have been added to the band as well.  Then, the original actress for Oola (the green dancer) was brought in to shoot additional scenes of her actually in the Rancor pit (you still don't see the Rancor).  The Sarlacc was "enhanced" with a CG beak-looking thing coming out of it and extra CG tentacles.  In the end celebration, instead of the Ewoks singing Yub Nub, John Williams re-scored it with a new, (arguably) more appropriate, New Age-y song.

In 2004, Sebastian Shaw's head has been replaced with an outtake of Hayden Christensen from ROTS in the Force-ghost scene.  In the Vader unmasking scene, Sebastian Shaw's eyebrows have been digitally removed (this change I actually agree with).  I don't think there were any other major 04 changes for ROTJ ...

The GOUT includes none of these changes.

So, if the version you grew up with didn't have all this shit in it, then yes, that's what you want.  If you grew up with the 1997 versions, you're shit out of luck, unfortunately, as there is no official release of the original Special Editions on DVD.

The new "Star Wars Original Trilogy" DVD box that contains all 3 movies in 2-disc versions in slim cases with a blue outer box includes both the 2004 SE DVDs and the GOUT.

You forgot something probably just as grevious to me of a change in return of the jedi as hayden, jar jar was added to the celebration scene or at least Gungans with a jar jar sound alike saying"wesa free!".

I still think the new celebration scene shown around the galaxy is EU and not canon to the original intent of the films.   It is especially jarring to add coruscant which came from Timothy Zahn's Trilogy an EU concept to return of the jedi, much less the jedi temple in the background which did not exist in 1983.

I don't hate the EU but i think Lucas borrowed way too much from the EU for the special editions and prequels and feel that neither was necessary.

If he could not stick to his original prequel vision or idea and felt the need to change things the least he cld have done was create his own original characters and designs, not appropriate them wholesale from professional fan fiction.

Again i have nothing against Tim Zahn i believe he saved star wars in the early nineties and his books would have made for a better movie trilogy than Lucas prequels.  It is so dissapointing though that he saved star wars just in time so lucas could destroy it, oh the irony.

Except the words need not be spoken.  Artists in the past and artists in the future will sell their quote "artist soul" to get rich and make a buck.

The example is that the original trilogy was compelling and moving as a human story as well as an exciting piece of popcorn sci fi action/space fantasy entertainment.

The prequels were almost souless.  Full of over the top bad humor, wooden pathetic acting, bad writing and directing.  And almost nothing more than special effects reels to shop to other studios on what ILM can do with CGI.

The guy who hated the entire corporate idea and ideal who refused to take over his fathers business because he didn't want to become like him became the corporation.  The little guy underdog artist who worked for a small personal system of making small films on your own terms outside hollywood became the new hollywood along with Spielberg. He eventually betrayed the very ideals he and Coppola had at Zoetrope in the 60's.

The entire problem is Lucas started out like one of the rebels from the rebel Alliance and became the new galactic empire .  Started out as luke and became more like vader.  The guy fighting the man became the man. 

It is even more ironic if you watch and realize his older films are all about escaping the control of the "machine" and machine men.  To hold onto ones own humanity.

Cgi made lucas films lifeless and sterile.

His success was his own undoing as ironic as that sounds.

He made better films under budgetary constraints.  Once he had the money that he could do anything his films were episodes 1-3 of the prequels.  Also if you no longer have people telling you their honest opinion of a bad idea and replacing writers and artists and producers and directors with sense with corporate yes men.

There is an axiom that exists in all forms of life.  Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.  In Lucas case his sucess has blinded him, and star wars has chained him down to where he cannot do anything remotely new, different or creative.  He is a slave to the franchise.

It will end up ruining him as an evolving artist just as star trek saddled and destroyed Gene Roddenberry's career as a writer.

The prequels imho come out of a postmodern sensibility of darkness and cyniscism and do not reflect the positives of Lucas other films like the original star wars trilogy.  He claimed he learned his lesson in making THX 1138 that no one wanted to see movies about how terrible the world was, so why in the name of heck did he do the prequels at all?

You know what i find laughable they actually had an offcial tenth anniversary issue of star wars insider on the phantom menace.  A magazine which i stopped buying or have not had a subscription to going on 4 or 5 years.

I think i followed the mag all the way up to the 2004 dvd release.  And i had bought a few issues since then on and off and had a hyperspace account which i let expire in 2006. 

No Restored original theatricals for the 30th anniversary anyway, and just more prequels spinoff nonsense and the selling of bad merchandise and action figures.  I swear the only people i know who still buy this garbage either collect action figures, dress up like dorks and go to conventions or have small children who watch the cartoon clone wars.

But how many actual non saga films and film fans does the prequels have.  I can honestly say i am not one of them and i am ashamed to own the dvd's.

See i would have paid to go to any of the last 3 star wars celeberations except Lucas would not allow them to show the original theatrical movies at the screenings they held.  So i skipped it out of a mindset of protest that did actually very little.  He still has people buying his table scraps. And eating up the fact he has ruined the only good films he ever made by adding cgi to them.

Me peronally i was going to actually but the first season of the clone wars show on dvd until Lucas held off the season set for these 4 episode ripoff anthology travesties that are bare bones, incorrect aspect ratio and out of order random episodes.  Now i think once the set comes out i won't buy it since he thought it was wise to anger people with the typical LFL release strategedy.

Its like the bad recut droids as a movie.  No comeplete season of episodes just recut garbage.  He also tampered with young indiana jones so i refused to buy those overpriced dvd sets too.

I am going to get rid of the destroyed versions of thx 1138, american graffiti and star wars.  And have to watch laserdiscs to get the non molested versions.  Gotta love the likes of Lucas and Disney.  Its like Dr Leonard H. "Bones" McCoy in star trek said " I know engineers they love to change things",lol.

In my opinion Lowry did far too much grain removal and had no right even at the studios suggestion to change the color timing.  At least on Thunderball they scanned the negative full aperture.

On Goldeneye the aspect ratio is too tight and incorrect.  Either they were given the wrong negative to scan, or they completely fucked it up at the telecine stage.

The original cinematographers and directors where they were still alive should have been consulted as to the changing the color shemes of the movies.

The Director of Thunderball for intance i believe he also directed from russia with love and dr no would have been against the changes imposed.  The old laserdisc releases grain scratches and all were truer to the original theatrical releases, even down to the skin tones. 

To me the bluish tint either added purposely or on accident to  frwl was an abomination.

The worst to me of all are the color botch jobs on her majesty's secret service and live and let die.

The only director approved editions of from russia with love and dr no on home video were made when the director was still alive and recorded the banned commentray for the citerion laserdiscs, the self same release.

Some postives about the Lowry Transfers they were the correct aspect ratio for the first time for some of the films, like dr. no and from russia with love.  Working from the camera negatives got rid of multiple generations of dirt and scratches and wear and tear from the copies. 

The biggest hurdle lowry faced was the opticals presented a problem.  The live action footage was restored so beautifully it no longer matched the sometimes many generations  removed composite opticals created in an optical printer before the advent of digital and computers. 

Unlike george lucas they did not have access to the original opticals to be recomped to remove the generation loss which was a compromise then and would not have been a problem on a production today where you can composite multiple elements seemlessly in the digital domain on a computer.  So they actually had to degrade the image of the live action photography a bit to match the opticals, a compromise to be sure.

I am sure things could be worse.  Some of the effects on the old movies look cheap and done on a budget like the opening space scene in you only live twice.  But i would just as soon leave it as is then add cartoon looking cgi and lucasize the films.

The star wars transfers were sent off to Lowry in 1080P resolution.  Which Lucas apparently thinks is archival quality.  Just a few years ago i think he said DVD was archival quality.

That 1080 master might have passed for a dvd and a tv broadcast but won't pass muster with a blu ray release.  They have to start out at least at miminal 4k and then compress down to 1080.

You have to roll over laughing 1080 is not even comparable to the resolving power of 35mm motion picture film much less a film trilogy that was designed to be shown in a showcase 70mm with the special effects produced on a extra large negaive area in vistavision i believe at 65mm. Or was that 60mm cannot remember the exact figure but 6k is miminally acceptable for vistavision opticals but probably should be rendered at 8k.

Phantom Menace was the last star wars movie produced on film.   Episode II and III will look barely ok on blu ray.  Anything higher than that in the future and the films will look like shit.

Lucas used HD video an unproven format to make his last 2 star wars movies.  Therefore they won't ever be archival quality.   And they look best of digital projection and look even worse when printed back to 35mm film.

Phantom Menace on the other hand could be rescanned at 4k or higher yeilding a very consistant blu ray image to the theatrical version as long as lucas and his pals don't dial up the dnr like they so love to do.

I have never seen the 1080 master of star wars as broadcast and really cannot comment if the grain stucture is intact but the mere mention of the name Lowry Digital these days infuriates me because of their digital grain removal process and digital color correction algorithms ruin films.

Some films i even have read people think they removed too much grain and then added it back in with fake digital grain.  I mean that is so totally absurd an idea and laughable if there is any truth to its validity.

Some films and negatives are so far gone that they have to be restored both in the digital domain and repaired, washed and chemically restored frame by frame, reel by reel.  Not every movie can afford the Harris treatment.  I wish all my favorite movies could be restored at the level of Lawrence of Arabia, or the first 2 godfather films etc.

dark_jedi said:

skyjedi2005 said:

I always see the debate online by Microsoft and Sony fanboys

 

What an ass,what a way to start out a conversation,Microsoft and "Sony Fanboys",what friggin Microsoft has NO Fanboys? Wii has NO Fanboys? JEEZ this shit gets very OLD fast.

I have all 3 so am I an all 3 FANBOY?

It seems Sky you hate everything nowadays don't you?

 

Nope.  Just the star wars prequels and indiana jones IV.  I do realize my gripes with Lucash have gotten rather old fast,lol. 

Hey i sort of liked the new star trek movie halfway after the fact so i can't be all bad,lol.

Well i also thought Wolverine and Terminator Salvation were absolute shit too.  But it seems the critics agree with me for a change.  Usually i love a film they hate.

Its hard not to feel betrayed and angered as a star wars fan when the only way you can watch your favorite films is in 1993 laserdisc transfers ported over to dvd in non anamorphic without the theatrical audio and bad dnr.  Its a good reason i have held onto my laserdiscs as long as i have.

Before the debacle that was the gout i could forgive much with the special editions and the prequels.  But that was just the last straw.

I always see the debate online by Microsoft and Sony fanboys that Nintendo Wii is shovelware.

But despite the few games that are a joke and made with very little effort and thinking to be for the wimote, crearly a lot of people own wii's and enjoy them a great deal.

Not enough people have HDTV's and blu ray is still a niche format to make the fact that the system is last generation and not current gen or next gen a big deal.  It is a lot like the gamecube except with a fun remote device that is mostly in my opinion the entire focus of the system and not the games.

It should be not about the controller used but about the games.  Remember some of those awesome games they made back in the super nintendo era?

I think it is about time they are working on their first truly wii Zelda game.  And the next mario game should be done whenever they feel like it.

Galaxy was a blast but new super mario bros as a port would be awesome i must admit for the old school gamer fans.  I enjoyed those old school elements in the paper mario games as well as galaxy.

To those who say the wii is shoveware they forgot that until fairly recently the ps3 was only good for playing blu ray movies and had almost zero games or at least good games.

Me i'm looking forward to Mass Effect 2.  Final Fantasy XIII.

I would have liked a kotor III, desptite Biowares old republic cinemas looking amazing i hate mmo's and prefer stand alone single player rpgs with a story.

I think all three systems have games worth owning.  Its a matter of choice which to own, and a matter of monetary expense.  I don't own anything myself beyond a ps1 and original xbox.  I had a supernes and gameboy, but no longer do.  Gamecube. wii and 360 all belonged to my bro and i never saw a reason to buy them when i could use his.  We owned a ps2 at one point.  The one system i have not played at all is the PS3 way too expensive and i don't have an HDTV.  No one in my family does.

If i had one i would definetely have Metal Gear IV though that game is frickin amazing the cinema scenes almost look like live action.

Oh yeah and i would probably play god of war III when it comes out, if i had a PS3,lol.

I don't want to see Bond before he was  the bond we know any more than i want to see a star trek film with a captain kirk before we knew him.

Lets make a prequel about a character and focus on their origins.  I don't give a damn about the origins especially if they are changed.

That would be like doing a star wars prequel about Luke Skywalker and casting another actor other than Mark Hamill.  Writing the characters origins differenty and having us see the unintresting part leading up to the good part of the story which should be skipped, and making the character charmless and unlikable.

I would have prerferred them to follow the casino royale book and set it in the same time frame.  Make it prior to the Connery films not set after 911 with a women M, no q no moneypenny and no gadgets.  No suave ladykiller who dresses in fancy clothes and has style and is ruthless.  They only got the ruthless part right.

No Skaken and not stirred, he says do i give a damn.  What a joke.  And Texas Hold'em instead of baccaratt not sure if i spelled that right.

The character comes off as more of an american action hero style bond and wooden and unintresting and bored as dalton.  He is more like Jack Bauer or Bourne than bond.

They might as well get JJ Abrams or Micheal Bay to do the next Bourne Bond, i mean James Bond,lol.