skyjedi2005

Wow so does that mean the X-0 project is actually back on track?

Well excuse the sarcasm but i believe hell has officially frozen over.

Whats next duke nukem forever gets released.lol.

The only movie in the series i don't own in my dvd collection is crystal skull.  I won't even ackowledge that as an indiana jones movie and i own star wars epsiodes 1-3 on dvd.  Crystal Skull was 10 times the dissapointment of the prequels in general and tied with phantom menace for the two biggest cinematic dissapointments in my entire life.  Probably the 2 biggest over hyped dissapointments in motion picture history as well.

Aliens in indiana jones was the stupidist thing ever.  What is dumber than ripping off a quasi ron hubbard book by some hack from the sixties called chariots of the gods.   When George runs out of ideas film fans should head for the hills,lol.

I would have much preferred the nazis and the spear of destiny plot over the russians and the aliens and the nuked fridge.

I watched that clip and i loved it.   I would love to see the whole thing.

Lucas as the brilliant young and talented underground film maker of THX 1138.

Quite rare and interesting what year was this shot in?  I assume before he started the star wars treatment in 1973.

This is probably the most interesting thing i have seen other than Lucas documentary on the making of the rain people someone posted on youtube.

I think this  documentary was shown on pbs as one point.  And it is so interesting based on this little clip i wonder why it has such a low rating on imdb.

I find it nice to see Lucas the genious filmaker once again.  The man responsible for star wars.  This is the lucas i admire and respect before he was consumed by cgi.  Ironic that he talks about money men should not make decisions over art. lol.

I wonder if at that moment had he  seen into the future and the prequels and jar jar.  Maybe he would have stated that a bit differently.  It is almost as ironic as his statement in from star wars to jedi about sets and special effects.

The Lucas who was determined to make films outside of hollywood.  Who fought the big money men and corporations became the corporation.

auximenies said:

Yeah, we didn't dwell too much on the episode numbers, and certainly never referred to them as such.  After "Episode IV" appeared in '81 (probably didn't actually see it until home video) we just assumed we missed it or didn't notice it when we saw the original back in '77.  Then after seeing that my friend's Art of Star Wars book attributed the Episode IV designation to a 1976 draft of the script, we were convinced. (Was this George's first step in creating a revised history??)

Back in the day I always thought it was neat that these movies were set in the middle of a larger time frame, without expecting that any more movies would ever be made.

I wish that were the case.  I really wish Return of the Jedi was the last one made.  To me the original trilogy is nearly perfect despite some flaws.  The prequels are one of the biggest dissapointments in motion picture history.  They contributed to ruining the legacy of the oot.  Which started with the special edition trilogy in 1997.  All the way up to the 2004 botched boxset and the joke that was the 2006 gout.

I wish the 20th anniversary or 30th anniversary were about a true restoration of the original movies.  Too bad the negatives were destroyed to make the special editions.

I saw the real Return of the Jedi once in the theaters in 1985.  Since then i have never seen it on the big screen again or gotten the chance to see the 77 star wars or 1980 empire strikes back.  And probably never will since Lucas allegedly recalled all prints and had them destroyed.

I would pay good money to see a 70mm roadshow presentation of all three of the original films in 6 track magnetic sound.  Though only very few prints exist.  Star Wars being in the hands of a collector who showed it to his friends.

There are quite a few movies i would pay to see in  theaters and all of them are not modern films loaded with crap cgi.  I would love to see the original indiana jones trilogy, superman the movie, star treks 1-6, back to the future etc.  And certain James Bond films starring Connery.

Did you throw away your 1997, 2004 special edition merchandise as well as Indiana Jones IV stuff.

Because that stuff is just as much garbage as the prequels.

Reminds me of the blog post i saw somewhere once that said "don't worry.  George Lucas still destroying star wars"  Which followed up the same sites "don't worry Lucas still raping your childhood". LMAO.

I guess some people really hate the clone wars cartoon series lucas is doing and the live action tv show.

The thread was this.

"Hypothetical: What would you KEEP?"

I would keep nothing of the prequels.  Seriously absolutely nothing about them stands out as being very good or on par with the original trilogy.  Not even John Williams music saved the films.

If they could be redone in the style of the classic trilogy following the established Canon as it was at the time Return of the Jedi was released.   The outline Lucas and Kurtz worked out in the seventies plus the 2 changes the vader being the father and leia the sister.  That is it.

And work from there.  The prequels contradict Lucas earlier trilogy to such a degree he finds the need to re-edit them and subtitute things to make them fit the prequels.  The truth of the matter is to completely fit the prequels the original trilogy would have to be redone in the spirit of the prequels and entriely reshot.

Some fans have gone so far to say they would support a films 1-6 saga reboot and reimagining.  I would not go that far myself. These people want Star Wars to get the same treatment and redo the Bond, Batman and Star Trek franchises have.

I found this a surprise.  Especially since Trek is getting the kind of positive reviews you only see films get almost never.  The last being the dark knight.

I have not seen t4 yet.  But based on the preview trailer it looks like pure cgi garbage.  Sure T2 had some over the top cgi but it was not the whole movie.  To me as a James Cameron Terminator fan this movie will either suck or not suck based on how faithful it is to the first 2 films.

Still there is no way it could possibly be as bad as the phoned in garbage that T3 was.

Absolutely hard to believe that a fun actioner like JJ's Star Trek is the best film so far of 2009.  And i think this is to his credit.  Nobody believed he could pull it off. 

Trek will end up being the only film out of a ton of action films of the summer that had any heart at all.  Unless T4 really delivers.  Transformers 2 will be a good waste of 2 hours and nothing more.  It will be pure eye candy.

Still T4 not the worst film out.  That would be either Wolverine or night at the museum 2.

The first time Lucas rather than extrapolating or adding things to the Canon from what we knew, Very clearly set out to contradict established canon was in Episode 1.

He obviously did not rewatch the older movies, or care to even make things consistent because after all these are kids movies right?

But since he had a bare outline that basically said Luke's father and Obi Wan did stuff to set up the oot.  In which the oot vader goes from being the murderor of luke's father  to being his father.

Other than that change and the Leia being the sister change the other prequel outline stuff should have remained the same.  Yoda was Obi Wan's teacher etc.  No Jar Jar binks or Qui Gon Jinn.

Anakin was a good friend.  And an excellent starpilot.  Not shown in the prequels.  Unless you consider that race car thing he drove as a kid or accidental blowing up a trade federation command ship.

He was not a good friend in the prequels.  He was a whiny, bitchy insurbordinate brat, emo teenage jedi wannabe.  Killer of women and children sandpersons and younglings and wife strangler to save his wife he had to kill her,lol.  He comes off as a complete asswhole.

The jedi order and the galactic senate responsible for democracy come off as buffoons or worse they are retards on purpose to serve the plot.

The Jedi are such prudes on marriage and sex that you almost cheer anakin on when he cheats on the orders beloved and sacred code.  But then Falling in love makes you kill children and become a mass murderor who on the turn of a dime kills his brethren and friends he spent years with on a whim based on a frickin bad dream.

The prequels are six hours of over the top granduer of cgi and action.  Just don't watch them looking for even in universe fictional star wars logic, or logic of any kind or a story.  Because then you will clearly be dissapointed.  And pointing out that the prequels are basically six hours of a cartoon or video game footage would not to fair to cartoons or video games.

The only substance to these movies the space battles, and lightsaber duels.  I mean it is as if Lucas did not even bother trying to tell a story.  Or maybe the story he told i did not pay attention to because it was unlikeable and unbelievable.

Lucas gets to decide the Canon because he created star wars.  We can call him out on the fact that the prequels were written after the fact and are not true to the star wars films we all grew up with.

But as an author he could change his conception of star wars later on and recast the universe in that new mode of thinking.  He changed as a man and a filmaker over twenty years. 

I think he has a right to do what he wants with star wars as long as the original films are given the respect fans demand.

He has a right to change his mind creatively and try new things and ideas.  Sometimes risky ones that get him condemned by oot purists.

But as we are all talking about star wars.  Which is a fictional universe i think we need to stop and think before it leads to personal insults and attacks against people.  I mean that is just silly to get angry over a piece of fiction.

To me though anyone who thinks the prequels are not a very deliberate recasting of the star wars universe which Lucas started with the special editions is blind.   IMHO.  Not a personal attack or condemnation just an observation.

And Vader is not hayden is right about the oot being the one true canon by which all other star wars should be judged.  It is not really a personal Canon.  If it was like me you could add the zahn trilogy and other bits and pieces of the sequel era EU as you liked.  There are some excellent parts to the EU and then there are some painfully bad parts. 

To me if you only care about the 3 original films it is a bit closed minded because you never really see the characters move on and grow beyond return of the jedi.  And since Lucas denies ever having in mind a sequel trilogy the EU is a second best option.  Therefore the sequel  EU to me is canon.  Because Lucas gave up on the fans who wanted to see more adventures of luke skywalker as star wars was always meant to be.  And changed it into the 1-6 episode story crap of hayden vader.

I mean who cares for the retcon prequels and Hayden as Vader.  If the prequels had to be made at all at least they should have been written as true backstories and not changed to fit Lucas whimsy.

Just like there is almost nothing substancial about the films that could not have been achieved in the 1980's or now using old school methods of filmaking models, matte paintings etc.  90% of the prequels is CGI overloaded 10% is a paper thin story a kid would get a D- on.  

So the strength is in the visual sense here which is Lucas strength but the storytelling suffers and takes a back seat.

Vaderisnothayden said:

skyjedi2005 said:

The radio dramas and novelizations have been thrown out as canon because they contradict the prequels.

Where did you hear this?

 

There is no official source but i think the Canon was  changed and these became EU.  Lucas even had the novelizations rewritten as Juvenile novelizations in 2004 to reflect the changes imposed by the prequels.

Even though Lucas contradicted himself in Attack of the Clones by Making Owen Lars Anakin's step brother when he was supposed to be Obi Wan Kenobi's brother.  As decided by Lucas during story conference on return of the jedi and made its way into the novel.

But this like any of the major retcons introduced during the oot could be excused as he was making it all up as he went. Vader being the father and Leia the sister.  The change in the Emporer from when star wars was written to how the character became later.

In the prequels Padme dies in childbirth from a broken heart. But Leia remembers her Her "real mother" in rotj.

Even the character of Anakin Skywalker as described in the originals is desecrated by Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  But its all okay now the changes are excused as that lying Kenobi s.o.b again.

The Official Lucas Canon has changed however.  It is no longer even static like it was after 1983.

The original threatrical versions and the 1997 versions that became the new canon versions are both now taken out of canonicity and the 2004 versions replace them.

The radio dramas and novelizations have been thrown out as canon because they contradict the prequels.

The funny things about the prequels is Lucas paid zero attention to continuity with the older films therefore he contradicted his earlier self in the making of them.

Gaffer Tape said:

Johnboy3434 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

No way. The films shouldn't have to kow tow to the EU. The EU is by very nature non-canonical, no matter what certain Lucasfilm employees think, and Lucas is thoroughly justified in ignoring it or going counter to it. The only question is whether he should be allowing his employees to officially call it canon if he's not going to treat it as that in his work. I think he shouldn't. I think it's a con to call the stuff canon when it's clearly not treated as canon. I think it's called canon just to to aid sales and wouldn't be called canon if not for that. The EU needs to be soundly put in its place. They should do the honest and appropriate thing and declare it all non-canon.

That's not your call to make. Whatever their reasons for saying it's canon, the point is that they say it, and so it is. The company that owns the right to a franchise can define its canon however it wants, so the EU is not "by very nature" non-canonical. If GL disagreed so vehemently with the presence of EU in Star Wars canon, he would fire the entire team of individuals whose sole job is to maintain a massive database on what constitutes canon, and who keep threads in the official message boards open for questions from readers. High-visibility jobs like that wouldn't last long if they were as unnecessary as you think.

I've noticed from your previous posts that you seem to think you have much more authority in these matters than you actually do. First, you insist that the OOT is the canon version simply because you think GL has lost sight of some nebulous concept of what SW "is" (which smacks of the same self-styled elitist definition as the phrase "true fan"), despite having no involvement in the production of the films of even an affiliation with the companies that made them. Now, you use the fact that Lucas Licensing is a business to off-handedly dismiss any official statements on the definition of canon. There's no logical follow-through to these statements at all. Simply put, you know less about what Star Wars "is" than Lucas and company ever will, because they DECIDE what it "is".

OOT purists, if you ever wondered why people have a tendency to look down on you, you need only look at people like Vaderisnothayden.

 

Nope.  Gotta agree with Vaderisnothayden on this one.  Nearly all of us here consider the OOT to be Star Wars canon over the '04 editions, myself included.  That's why most of us are here.

And while I've been a fan of EU and oftentimes consider some parts canonical, and it's obvious that Lucas the company considers it, it's even more obvious that Lucas the man does not.  He's made several statements saying he ignores EU works and has no idea what happens in them.  Even that wouldn't be so damning except for the fact that the prequels outright contradict elements of EU that the company considers to be canon.

Granted, we get our jollies off on holding opposing views from Lucas, but it's extremely funny that the company is pulled in two different directions.  I agree with Vaderisnothayden that the books are given such high status solely to boost sales.  I whole-heartedly believe that.  It's a little bit contradictory for Vaderisnothayden to follow Lucas's opinion on this when he doesn't in any other situation, but I certainly believe the fact that George shits on EU validates Vaderisnothayden's opinion.

Lucas after 1983 was very clear what was canon and what was not.  He said the movies were gospel and the EU gossip.   Then his whole being separate from EU now is a big joke because he borrowed EU stuff and added it to the special editions and prequels.

Adding things from shadows of the empire to star wars special edition.  Darth Maul's double bladed saber stolen from the comics that had Exar Kun.  Adding coruscant to the special editions and prequels.  Putting Boba Fett in star wars when he was not created til pre production on empire strikes back.

Boba Fett was first indtroduced as an EU character in the holiday special.  But since his band of warriors were created by Joe Johnston during pre production of empire strikes back as a kind of super soldier i'm not sure if he falls under the EU first and then became canon by being in empire strikes back.

There are many different branches of the canon.  The highest is the G canon.  Which is now only episodes 1-6 but once included the novelizations and radio dramas. 

The EU itself has a very elaborate canon structure.  The highest is a sub canon to the films themselves and projects Lucas has either produced or been Involved with.  Including Force Unleashed and the 3D clone wars cartoon.

The other novels and comics and video games follow below these.  And the way EU Canon is structured has changed over time.  For instance once the Marvel comics were thrown out EU canon entirely and now they have brought certain things back in.  Just like the newspaper comics by Russ Cochran were forgotten or dismissed canon and have been brought back into it.

Any of the old novels that contradict the prequels are either just left be, or if old story ideas and narrative threads are reused they have to fit the current prequel era of EU and cannot mess with what Lucas wants.

The prequels as we finally got them are just a mess of epic proportions.  Lucas might say they are canon.  but i disagree.  I think they are more EU than anything and certainly not the best the EU has to offer.  That includes the 1997 and 2004 versions of the films. 

To me the real true canon is.

Star Wars 1977

Empire Strikes Back 1980

Return of the Jedi 1983

And the novelizations from those same years.  Plus the radio dramas for star wars and empire strikes back.

Return of the jedi is not included because it does not feature Mark Hamill and added Mara Jade as Arica.

I'm glad that the utah symphony release of the trilogy and the national philarmonic release for return of the jedi were made before the awful Jedi Rocks.

Yub Nub might not be the best piece ever composed but the lyrics were written by Joseph Williams with the help of Ben Burtt.   John Williams son.  Jedi rocks written by some hack and neither Joseph or John Williams.

The New ending theme was written by Williams but like the 4th Indiana Jones score was completely phoned in.  It is almost identical to the temp track.

Just so Lucas could add bad cgi to the end of Return of the Jedi. 

Coruscant did not exist until the EU created it.  Does not belong in the Movie. 

The film is about the heroes we have been following for three films not random people on different planets we don't care about.

The 2004 is the worst offender ever it has both Hayden and Jar Jar inserted into the movie. 

I cannot watch that version because it makes me want to take the DVD and throw it at the wall and watch it explode.

I think it was a mini playboy magazine cover. Inside the blockade runner.  They show it in from star wars to indiana jones book.  Hard to see though it is so small.

I don't totally agree with Confused Matthew's review but i found it funny on youtube.  I'm sure Hunter6 will love that confused matthew gave it a bad review.

I bought tickets in advance.  Saw it opening day.  Loved it the first time i saw it but felt there was a bit missing.  But for an intro chapter it was okay.  I thought Jar Jar was i don't know humor for the kiddies so it did'nt really bother me then.  I liked the pod race and the lightsaber duel.  Like pretty much everyone else those were the only scenes in the entire film that stood out really.

Couldn't wait to see Episode II.  and since no bashing allowed the rest as they say is history,lol.

I read the script about a month before i saw the movie so i noticed things not being there.  Like the duel on the ships ramp  between maul and qui gon.  And Jar Jar being told by Boss Nass that he is to be "pounded unto death".lol.  Intead of as in the film "he-sun to be pune-nished ".

Yeah but how cool would have Indy IV have been if Spielberg did it completely old school like he was originally going to do, and drop the alien subplot and come up with a better mcguffin.

There are things i like about part IV Crystal Skulls.  The things i like are things other people hated like having Marion return.  Indy having a son the wedding scene at the end.

The things i hated were the Mayan Temple turning into an Alien ship.  Interdemensional beings, "the space between the spaces".  Indy in the nuked fridge.  Gophers/Prairie dogs whatever.  The monkeys helping Mutt attack the Russians.  Kaminsky cinematography not up to douglas slocombe level of being great.

Fake cgi sets instead of shooting on location in the jungle or whatever.   The jeep that doubled as a boat and falls down three waterfalls. The Retard OX too much like Jar Jar comic relief type useless character. The triple agent friend of indy's with the bad accent i wanted Indy to just shoot.

The ripoffs of ripoffs like the mummy, national treasure and x-files and stargate.

I did enjoy the classic rock and roll tunes being thrown in there and the references tro American Graffiti like the drag race at the beginning.

Some reviewer called the movie a compliation of George Lucas and Steven Spielbergs greatest hits,lol.

Okay i get it the Aliens are a reference to E.T. and Close Encounters.  The Drag race and diner are straight out of American Graffiti.

Listening to the LP i am blown away by the increased dynamics.  The CD is a very nice release but the LP is audiophile quality.  The best part is the re-recorded return of the jedi stuff. Makes the CD special edition of the official set muddy in comparison.  This LP is a digital recording so its even better than the RSO LP.

Although i do prefer Williams over all.  The other orchestras timings are different sometimes.  Notes are accentuated differently for a concert hall performance rather than something scored for film.

I can only hope that someday Lucas sees fit to release a restored and uncut Return of the Jedi release from the original source tapes. 

I mean i have a CD conducted by Williams in the 1980's by the Boston Pops for the star wars trilogy and the dynamics on that CD are stunning in comparison to the official Lucas releases.  I might even track down the LP for reference purposes.

Then again i was listening to the anthology set CD box the other day and the music sounded much more alive than the special edition releases.  That and the LP's i have tell me that the Special editions are a frickin joke and only star wars was done right.  Empire reversed sound channels and missing cues.  Jedi so badly ruined by being a 3rd generation copy put through too much noise reduction.

I think that a lot more people liked the prequels than people now want to admit to.  People went to see them multiple times in theaters and they made some serious cash for Lucas.  They were much more lucrative in the long run than the originals were.

Add on the home video sales and Lucas made a killing in terms of these being financially sucessful.  And these films do what popcorn films are supposed to do they entertained people for a couple hours in their boringly dismal lives. 

I have known kids who love these films.  They were made for a different generation.  Lucas knows his audience.

Adults in their 30's and 40's or even 20's are not going to enjoy films made for 9-12 year olds and 13 year olds for sith.

At the end of the day i think it is okay the new films were not made for me.  I am an adult.  The wrong such audience for childrens films.

I already know someone will come on and say the originals were for all ages.  Well at least star wars and empire strikes back were.  JEDI started the kiddie stuff with teddy bears beating the empire and celebrating as harrison said a teddybear picnic.

Really not all that suprising though even all the sequels to raiders of the lost ark got increasingly childish until the fourth film there is no peril and its like a warner bros Looney Tunes cartoon.

Did you know they spent about a million dollars on the frickin thing and did'nt even shoot it on film as far as i have read.  They shot it on u-matic studio video tape circa 1978. Thats some quality there,lol.

This special is easily the worst thing George Lucas ever created.  Worse than Howard the Duck, Worse than Jar Jar even.  Worse than Pee Wee herman as a droid on star tours.  That and Captain EO are a bit creepy now knowing they were meant for children.

Unless you have a servere case of nostalgia i also would say stay as far away as possible from the ewok movies and the droids and ewok cartoons.  Can you believe this is all we got after jedi back in the day.  The marvel comic was a couple steps above but was at some point later cancelled.

Can you imagine being a kid and wanting sequels to Return of the Jedi and all you get is this garbage.  At least until Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire came out.

Then you wait 16 years and get served up a disney channel movie of the week like the phantom menace.  What an utter disappointment.  Turning off my brain to the next 2 and enjoying their mind numbing stupidity and action was the only was i could deal with it.  I had to tell myself there are not star wars only something using the name themes and characters poorly.  So i saw menace in theaters once and clones and sith twice only for the epic lightsaber duels that were in hindsight laughable.

If you could mute the horrible wooden and uninteresting dialogue and characters basically you have six hours of wall to wall cgi and frantic action.  The plot threads so thin i'm surprised the films work at all.  They work a whole lot better when filled in by EU comics and novels.  So they throw an EU bandaid over plot and continuity vacuum big enough to fly a death star through.

Also the politics now in the EU are very heavy handed.  They dealt with Terrorism and the war on terror with the vong.  They dealt with Bush in the prequels.  And now the last book was about more politics and religion crap.  Something Outcast or something i can't exactly remember.

The originals had politics too but they were not in your face.  It was more your standard revoltionary war style story.

Having Hayden deliver the bushism in Epsiode III made me burst out laughing in the theater.  It was so bad i literally could have been rolling on the floor laughing at Lucas.

Believe it or not i would not mind actually having  a set of the theatrical prequels on Blu Ray.  Especially Episode 1.  The DVD has awful edge enhancement and too much dnr.  Plus they drop in new scenes into the movie that ruin the pacing.  The longer podrace is just unnecessary were they to edit and streamline anything why not limit the Jar Jar stuff like stepping in poo and that bird thing farting in his face.

The audio on the laserdisc was better too.  The changes in II and III were so small and insigificant they could both be on the same disc via seemless branching.  Something which can't be done with the originals since there have been so many changes in the last 2 cuts of the films.

Since Lucas has no intention of restoring or ever releasing the originals again.  Why not just put the 2004 screwed up audio and colors and all on Blu Ray and be done with it.  It would sell just as well as the dvd, the masses of uneducated fans out there would love it. 

They would eat it up just as much as the fanboys of the new star trek movie set 1-6 which had too much dnr done to it.  Except for Star Trek II.

captainsolo said:

vote_for_palpatine said:

That's Associate Chief Fnelthr Plux of the Kalkmaar tribe. He and a faction loyal to him broke away from Chief Onf over the mistreatment of a captured Tusken from another tribe. The whole story was told in a SW short story collection, Tales of the Dune Sea, for everyone who wondered what Tuskens, Jawas, Krayt Dragons, and womp rats really did. Another pearl of modern EU, naturally.

 

At first glance I thought-are you kidding me? They actually wrote about that? Great joke. I thought it might've been the weird Tusken/Jedi dude in some of the comics. (I did not make it up!) I am a fan of the EU when it doesn't go too overboard. Most of the stuff nowadays is just so off the deep end that it isn't even enjoyable anymore. The Thrawn Trilogy, Shatterpoint, and of course the adventures of Han Solo are still my defining EU moments. Can we persuade Lucasbooks to get back to "classic SW"? (hate that term) The only good thing I've read recently has been the Last of the Jedi young reader series. I know that they're for kids, but the stories are actually well defined. Reading all 10 is about the equivalent of a full EU novel.

In this day and age where book sales are everything why would they go back to doing classic star wars?  When just about every single new jedi order book and legacy of the force book has been a new york times bestseller.

All that matters is sales.  Not the stories and not creative authorship.  In fact a lot of the novels are almost produced like an addendum to a role playing supplement.  Or by following the galactic databank at lucasfilm starwars site.  Continuity has strangled the life out of the stories now that they have to be rewriitten backwords to conform to the prequels.

Authors in the Bantam Era even if they had strictures on some things did not have to worry about the stupid prequels.  All they had to do was make the characters like they were in the original trilogy and extrapolate the future series from that Lucas refused to do.  The stories are now trying to be more dark and edgy and forgetting their escapist space fantasy roots.

I'm sick of hearing all the whining and bitching over the new movie.  Yeah i probably deserve a good dose of what i dished out,lol.

But would people have rather had that prequel with Kirk's Grandfather in the romulan wars that berman and the screenwriter from band of brothers were working on, or even the top gun trek academy years by Harve Bennet penned by the screenwriter of star trek V.  Both would have been far more horrible movies.

I'm also glad that JJ kept things on the lighter side, and still trek has a hopeful future even in a time of crisis and great evil mankind rises to the Challenge with that pioneer spirit so nobly evoked in the opening credits for Enterprise.  Those Pioneers were mostly American.  But in the future there is no country,lol.

They could have had a darker more cynical Trek like Battlestar Galactica's reboot.  Instead they paid tribute to the great bird of the galaxy's hopefull future.

Some fans won't get on board this new Trek.  But  Rod Gene's son has.  Shatner has, as well as nimoy, takei, and the doohan family.  They embraced the new film as a worthy sucessor.  As did Gene's wife before she died.

I thought Episode I and II were always going to be filler.  And that the only film Lucas really had the backstory sketched out at all was Episode III.  That film was supposed to be the real meat of the story.  But almost most of the film is wasted.  The most important part was making Anakin's turn believable.

The Vader hunting down the Jedi arc, and Rebellion arc should have been in this film but was not.  Only does the very end of the movie set up the original trilogy.  Something like the last 5 minutes or something.  You never really do see badass machine man Vader stalking Jedi and getting into heated lightsaber duels with them.

Only the dark lord novel and its eventual sequels if written set up things to come.  Only the EU sets up the rebellion era and a very poor job at that in the force unleashed.  I actually liked Lucas deleted scenes version in sith better. Padme sets up the rebellion and not palpatine to ensnare the senators.  That was so retarded it was beyond any stupid Lucasian plot i have ever encountered.  Worse than the virgin birth of Anakin.  Worse than midiclorians, and worse than Jar Jar.

We all know he is just making things up as he goes along.  Things could have been more artfully done without drawing attention to the patchwork stitched together plot threads.  If you see the author's hand at work or manipulating the plot to shoehorn things together you are taken out of the story.  You lose suspension of disbelief.  The Lucas of yesteryear was a magician who weaved tales magically without the audience being drawn out of the movie while watching it or being drawn in attention to the CGI and missing the story.

I would'nt say the story or plot is bad in the prequels or the ideas.  But the way of conveying things could have been more clear.  The prequels confuse the hell out of people looking for logic and consistency, when things are done just because it was in the script or was necessary to the plot.  The originals had very simple themes and ideas and did not try to be complex in a socio political way like the prequels in a pretentious way  while drawing people ears to the music and the cgi and saying this is epic feel.

Watching the original films and taken notes should have been done by Lucas or one of his staff prior to the start of making these films.  Nevertheless doing things in reverse is never easy.  The fact that no story exists for the prequels prior to nov 1, 1994 without any hard evidance makes that clear.  He may have had it in his head or hashed out a general outline verbally with Gary Kurtz.  But no outline for films 1-9 appear to be in existance.  And very much appear to be a fabricated myth that Lucas had everything figured out from day one.

The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi changed the original concept of what the prequels were by

A. Making Vader Luke's Father.  The Jedi trio of Lukes father, Ben Kenobi and Vader were replaced by only Ben, and Skywalker and vader were merged.

B. Making Leia the Sister.

C.  Having Luke confront the emperor earlier than he was supposed to.

To me it was more seeing the authors hand at work making the story up as he went than Palpatine being this puppetmaster controlling all these seperate threads.

I mean it totally reminds me of the Wizard of OZ.  "don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain".  Its only Lucas, rofl.

I'm not sure since i've only read the first issue.  But Star Trek Countdown the comic might help people understand the set up for the movie better. 

Just wanted to point out the Enterprise 1701 was run mostly by Cadets and trainees The Wrath of Khan.  The only difference is the command crew were not cadets or trainees.

Hey at least it was not the young academy kirk and friends steal the enterprise.  And go out alone and fight the Romulans.

I also recommend for some amusement for those who have seen the movie to read Shatner's book the Academy for his version of the young kirk.  And compare the two and imagine that book as a movie. 

I think Shatner's book as a movie would have been far more ridiculous.