I think this was the moment I started to wonder if George had lost his mind. The change was so bizarrely trivial, and hacked up the music score in such an ugly way, that I was simply dumbfounded.
"Jedi Rocks" (and the new celebration music) confirmed to me that George had lost his mind.
The Matrix really struck me as the true heir to the original Star Wars. It has the same kind of character arc, it was wonderfully innovative with its special effects, and it sketched out a richly realized world without bogging the film down with expository dialogue. If the sequels hadn't screwed the pooch so badly, that film series could have been the new OT.
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
ROTJ is a poorly-conceived movie with ridiculous plot holes and a shoddy structure, that is totally rescued by the wonderful additions of two memorable characters: Jabba, and the Emperor. Every scene with those characters in them are marvelous, and the juxtaposition of a wrinkly old evil sorceror with this high-tech space battle is fabulously done. The climactic scene with Vader, Luke, and the Emperor is on a par with anything in the OT.
Win!
The three-way climax really was a fine piece of propulsive editing (thanks again, Marcia), elegant and rousing in equal measure. I still want to stand and cheer when Lando makes it out of the Death Star, and I still get misty when Luke looks at the ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Sebastian Shaw. Even though ROTJ is a lesser film than its predecessors, I've always found it satisfying as a character piece.
And I'm totally fine with the Ewoks. We actually got to know them, which I why I like the storytelling scene even though it brings the film to a dead halt. It's odd really - I like all the parts of ROTJ, but they don't quite fit together.
In defense of ROTJ, I've never found it to be as childish as it's often said to be. Sure, it was the one easiest to like as a wee lad, but the business with Luke, Vader and the Emperor was very adult, and very morally complicated (not to mention scary as hell in places). Even the central relationships between Han, Leia and Luke seemed more mature, like when Han catches himself on his macho bullcrap and apologizes to Leia. And even though the structure really falters in the middle, I've always found some charm in it - I don't know of many mega-budget franchise-ending blockbusters that were so quiet in the middle act.
Proud to have a ratio over 12. :)
Go and do likewise, gents.
Not to mention that the Vader's voice just sounded weird.
darth_ender said:
I'm putting in this plug all over the place, but I have become fairly convinced that the best prequel fan edits would change Ep II into Ep I, create a feature length story from the Clone Wars series for Ep II, and then edit Ep III. Elements from TPM could be retained for the new Ep I, such as Darth Maul, perhaps even starting as Topher Grace did with the Maul/Kenobi/Ginn battle, and then reintroducing him as the primary villain for Ep II whilst giving more background to Grievous. I know that there would be a jarring change in styles from live action in Ep I to CGI in Ep II and then back in Ep III, but I think it could really make a more congruent story. Since the series may be wrapping up fairly soon, I have high hopes that someone would consider that route.
How does the Clone Wars show compare with the version Genndy Tartakovsky made? Because I thought his version was the only truly great thing to come out of this whole prequel mess, and makes for a darn fine Ep II if one goes that route.
5kcoach said:
Clearly late for the party.
Looking for a good seed of PSB and Puggo Grande. Having trouble finding either. Any help fellas?
PM me and I can sent you an invite.
Mrebo said:
He reminds me in some ways of Val Kilmer or even Kevin Costner. He may yet stumble into a part that suits him.
Like Shattered Glass? I thought he did a fine job in that movie, and had some great scenes with Peter Sarsgaard.
At this point, I think Hayden should aim for a good recurring role on a dramatic tv series - something where he could settle into the ensemble and let his character grow slowly over time.
<p>Hope it's R A H</p>
lurker77 said:
If I may give my 2 cents on the digital vs. film debate...
People keep saying that "digital has better resolution than film prints that are many generations removed from the negative".
First, the majority of digital projections are in 2K, which is barely above 1080p, and not higher than a film print in any sense. Second, film has infinite resolution. People may count grains, but the grains themselves are not uniform. Information on film goes down to the atomic level. Although, most films these days go through a digital intermediate for colour correction, so the resolution will be stuck at that level no matter what.
Also, "digital is more stable and has better contrast/no scratches". To me at least, watching a perfectly stable film is distracting. It's like a moving painting. As to the image quality beyond just the resolution, although no scratches are nice, contrast & colour are locked to a certain range, which no matter what that range is, can be as distracting as the lack of movement. Film has very slight variations in every aspect of the image, aka "warmth", which is more natural to look at and therefore less fatiguing to the eye. I find that listening to lots of digital music, especially compressed, is fatiguing to my ears. Vinyl & cassette doesn't do that.
What this guy said.
I hated the CGI chase scenes even more than the monkeys. They are poorly done, repetitive of other, older footage (shades of Jabba's deleted scene repeating lines from the previous Greedo scene) and wreck the look and feel of the movie. That THX was made as an attempt to make a futuristic-looking movie using only existing locations and available light makes this "special edition" all the worse.
And the re-editing is just bizarre. Certain scenes are re-ordered to confusing effect, alternate takes are substituted frequently, and in general, the GLDC favors faster cutting between actors in a dialogue scene. One of my biggest pet peeves is how the "faces around the room" scene (when Duvall suspects others know his secret) is sped up to make room for other cuts.
The original THX did not at all feel like an American movie. The style of the movie (particularly the editing) reminded me a lot of Antonioni. The GLDC was a poor attempt to infuse a lot of kinetic energy into a movie that was designed for slow burns and oppressive atmosphere.
To indulge the fantasy a little further (assuming the outer storyline stayed the same),TPM would have been much more of a political allegory if made in 77, which would have made it more "timely," and probably not quite as successful. Oh sure, if the ILM leap had occurred, and had TPM been crafted/scripted/edited with as much quality as the SW we know and love, it would have done smashingly, but in a more ordinary way. What really put SW over the top in popularity was that it was a movie completely out-of-time, something that had much more in common with ancient morality plays like Beowulf than any contemporary political/social/whatever concerns. This timelessness is such a big part of why people started showing up at screenings dressed like characters right away, and why it acquired such a reverential kind of following, way more than any other normal hit movie.
If GWL had made TPM in 1977, he probably would have done some pretty weird things, like have a main character. A big part of what makes TPM so dramatically inert is that it plays the foreshadowing and destiny angle so aggressively, to the point where throwaway moments like [Character A], meet [Character B] are supposed to be big and dramatic. Like two people meeting and shaking hands are supposed to be the most important moments in the film.
If he tried making TPM in 77, the script and story would have undergone far more revision before the camera recorded anything, because that's how he worked back then, and given that, I can see TPM being a great movie. If he had made the PT back then, and then twenty years later, tried making the OT (which I guess would be called the ST in this case) with his rich/fat/control freak working methods, IV, V, and VI would be the clusterfucks. Young, hungry, creative GWL could have made a masterpiece out of TPM, though it would be so different (and better) as to be unrecognizable.
Does the Thrawn Trilogy count as EU? I read Heir to the Empire, and while I didn't think it was all that good (maily due to the writing style), I can close my eyes and imagine it as Episode VII. The rest of the EU is way too convoluted for me.
RE: everyone has a backstory - this is a big part of why I hate the EU. When Grievous was first introduced (via the excellent Tarkovsky Clone Wars cartoons), he didn't have an official backstory, which prompted interesting questons. Who the hell was he? Was he a droid who became self aware, and mated his frame with organic parts? Are all the live parts from the same species, or is there some mix and match going on? What's more in charge of his being - the machine or the organic? As far as I'm concerned, he didn't need a backstory, but they later gave him one, which really just made him a lot less interesting. Well, and then he got portrayed by Matthew Wood in the film, which made him stupid.
TV's Frink said:
Lucas lost his marbles betwwen the OT and the PT.xhonzi said:
Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?
Why do you think that changed in the PT?
Ding!
I mean, if you can shoot lightning from your fingers and can aim it well enough to nail a guy across the room, a lightsaber is a real step down as a weapon. An I've never bought how in the PT this lightning can be blocked with a lightsaber. Unless lightsabers can somehow, like, magnetize all the lightning into the blade, it seems like all Dooku or Sidious would have to do is, like, aim the lightning away from the lightsaber in their fights. It also makes Luke seem like an idiot for throwing his away - I always felt that Luke would have had his ass kicked by the Emperor with or without the damn lightsaber.
lightning from fingers > lightsaber
being green and cool and wise and strong with the force > lightsaber
captainsolo said:
Nearly any moment in SW could be considered one, primarily due to the way the film was cut. There's an undeniable energy to even the slightest of gestures that makes the thing feel so incredibly alive. This is what really makes ESB and ROTJ seem different.
No kidding. This is why I love watching the Puggo Grande so much - it really allows one to focus on the energy of the editing. This is such a kinetic movie from start to finish - and the death star finale is a virtuoso piece of work. Sometimes I wonder if it's notable that this was edited by a woman...as rousing as this whole ending is, it's also very elegant, and I think that energy really puts the sequence over the top. Every single time Han shows up, I'm floored. And the old FX is so perfect - yeah, it's a big battle, but the ships always have a bit of that 2001-style "drifting" quality to them. The SE dogfight work is so...not elegant.
This energy is also why I think Star Wars works best when it's removed from any notion of a saga. I love the PG so much because it takes me to a place where Star Wars was just another movie, the new one from that American Graffiti guy. And the great leap from his previous work was largely in the editing.
Ease up, cowboy. It was an observation, not an attack.
cthulhu1138 said:
And as far as the PT is concerned. The only scene's that are redeemable to me are when Liam Neeson is talking to Watto. Watto is the only CG character IMHO that is actually interesting and Liam Neeson talks to him as though he is really on set. I would put those scenes on par with how Mark Hamill acted around the Yoda puppet in TESB and ROTJ.
I wouldn't. Liam and Watto have nothing important going on between them - Hamill (and the muppet) had to carry much more emotional weight in their scenes.
I always figured that after Jango died, they had to start cloning from the clones, and eventually they became retarded.
Really? This thread is still open? This was pointless from the first post.
damn, I had no idea the GOUT was cropped like this. Stretchy faces galore!
Very interesting - I tend to prefer mono mixes for movies like this.
PM kind sir?
I love the OOT. That's why I'm here.
No, he wasn't. In his youth, he was a deeply sincere filmmaker, and a gifted one at that. We wouldn't be on this forum otherwise.
Seriously frevious, your shtick is quite tiresome.
Among the best:
General Grievous (as depicted and voiced in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoons)
Among the worst:
General Grievous (as depicted and voiced in Revenge of the Sith)